called vs. summoned

[big teej]

greetings playgrounders,

at the risk of asking a silly question.


what's the difference between summoned and called?


specifically, the Planar Ally spell says that a creature called by the spell actually dies if slain during it's service (and will consequently refuse any potentially suicidal requests)

however, my understanding is that an extraplanar creature, when slain on the prime material, simply returns to it's plane of origin.

so my question, to put it simplly, is thus:

does the Planar Ally line of spells override this concept?

[gooddragon1]

Summoned (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning)
Called (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#calling)

Summoning

A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.


Calling

A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled.

Called die if they are killed as they are actually and completely brought to you. Summoned just poof if they are killed as they are only partially brought to you. AMF stops summons but not calling similar with dispel. Calling is generally much more powerful than summoning and much more involved in resources.

[Psyren]

however, my understanding is that an extraplanar creature, when slain on the prime material, simply returns to it's plane of origin.


If summoned, then yes, this is what happens. Poof, appears back home.

If called, it varies. Even for outsiders that do reform on their home plane (e.g. Demons), this can take an extremely long time if they were legitimately slain. It can also result in demotion, IIRC.

[big teej]

I fear that the party cleric is going to have to drive a much harder bargain :smalltongue:


he has to convince the called critter to engage in combat with a Greater Cadaver Collector (MMIII)

[Starbuck_II]

however, my understanding is that an extraplanar creature, when slain on the prime material, simply returns to it's plane of origin.

?

That confusion is a 2E issue. 2E made called creatures not die (like fiends) when killed; just banished.

3.0/3.5 changes the rules, a few books tried to change the rules back like fiendish codex, but they are in error. So don't worry, anything kill on material plane is dead till revived by magic (except for summoning spells).

[Gamer Girl]

You have one of the legacies of 2E that are found in 3X. The rule that says outsiders can't be killed outside of their native plane is not a 3X Core Rule. It might have slipped into another book or two, but it's not core.

[Tvtyrant]

I just fan-fluff it so that summons aren't actual creatures, just dolls made of planar fabric. Or, to put it another way, an archtype of what you summon and not an individual.

Call spells are actual individuals with personalities, and as an individual they can be killed (but the energy returns to the plane they come from and becomes a new individual).

[Starbuck_II]

I just fan-fluff it so that summons aren't actual creatures, just dolls made of planar fabric. Or, to put it another way, an archtype of what you summon and not an individual.

That is actual rule in PHB.

[Tvtyrant]

That is actual rule in PHB.

Is it? I don't own one myself. Is it also in the SRD?

[Milo v3]

Is it? I don't own one myself. Is it also in the SRD?

In Complete Mage it has a paragraph or two saying how your statement is correct and that summoning removes potential matter from the universe in doing so.