Eskimo Character, need advice on build

[Nightgaun7]

Hi all.

Been a long time since I've played 3.5 and I'm going to be joining a campaign in a bit. Was hoping I could get some advice on making my character, because right now I'm a bit overwhelmed by options. Even if you just pitch more ideas, that'd be helpful!

The campaign is a seafaring one in the Forgotten Realms, and I plan to play some sort of Eskimo-type from the far north (or south, i suppose). I'd like to be reasonably powerful in a fight, be able to throw javelins and have a pet. I don't have to be the world's best harpoon chucker and my pet doesn't have to kill legionson its own, I'd just like to have those two abilities. Other than that, I haven't got much set in stone.

Here's what I've got to work with:
Books - PHB, PHB2, complete series, others on per-case basis, most things (Racial variants, magic items, etc from any FR supplements, etc) in Forgotten Realms supplements allowed subject to GM approval. Tome of Magic not being used.

Race - probably either human or neanderthal (from Frostburn), but also thinking about half-elf. Curious if there's anything that could be a part-Rusalka. Open to other suggestions, but nothing more than LA +1, and nothing too evil.

Class - This is the big thing i need help with. Main options under consideration are some flavor of druid or ranger. Also considering a shaman, although there appear to be several different shaman base classes and I'm not sure which is which yet. busy trawling through sourcebooks for more info. Favoured Soul, Barbarian/Totem Barbarian, Cleric, Scout, and Truenamer (Eskimos have 99 words for snow, make sense one of them would be the right one : P )

Starting at 5th level, 32 point stat buy, can take a flaw to get an extra feat, 9000 starting GP. If there's anything else to know, please ask.

Cheers

EDIT: Tips on weapons, armor, and gear also appreciated, though less needed.

[Blueiji]

Class - This is the big thing i need help with. Main options under consideration are some flavor of druid or ranger. Also considering a shaman, although there appear to be several different shaman base classes and I'm not sure which is which yet. busy trawling through sourcebooks for more info. Favoured Soul, Barbarian/Totem Barbarian, Cleric, Scout, and Truenamer (Eskimos have 99 words for snow, make sense one of them would be the right one : P )

I wouldn't go with a Truenamer unless a variant such as this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90961) is allowed, because they are pretty pitiful power-wise without some heavy optimization. That particular fix I've provided brings the class up to about tier three, which is widely considered the most balanced and fun to play tier.

If you want a pet, you'll either have to go with Druid or Ranger (as you mentioned), but you could also go for this feat (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), it's sort of like the "Leadership" feat, but considerably less over-powered. Plus it gets you an animal, allowing you to get a pet no matter what class you take. It's provided for free by WotC in the link above.

As for races, Human is pretty great, as it can fit with any concept. I'm not entirely familiar with Neanderthal, but it could also work well for your character (although if I was an Eskimo I would probably find it offensive to be called the equivalent of a proto-human).

Spear throwing can be implemented with a number of classes, and since you can use Wild Cohort to get a pet, you don't need to worry about choosing one that gives a pet. I believe that drawing a weapon (in order to throw it) takes a move action, so a scout wouldn't be the best choice (as a scout, you want to use you move action to activate your "Skirmish" ability). However you could take the "Quick Draw" feat to fix that.

I know absolutely nothing about Shamans, so I'm not much help there.

Barbarian would work, especially if you use one of the Totems (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVariantTotemB arbarian), which give some fun customization. Here are some home-brew totems (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157302), they're more powerful than some of the other Totems, but they're meant to bring the Barbarian up to tier three, so a power boost is OK, there's probably a couple arctic animals in there as well.

Cleric and Favored Soul are both fun classes, and probably can work with thrown weapons as well, so you could go for those.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any other classes that you didn't mention that would be good for spear throwing, but I'll comment again if I think of one.

Hope that helps. :smallsmile:

[awa]

actually their language is like ours so when you say they have 99 words for snow in reality that means they have words like snowing, and snowfall and snowed all of which are different words and all refer to snow.

[BowStreetRunner]

actually their language is like ours so when you say they have 99 words for snow in reality that means they have words like snowing, and snowfall and snowed all of which are different words and all refer to snow.

Actually it's more like different words for soft, fluffy fresh powdery snow versus hard, ice-crusted snow and things like that. It's a survival issue. You use different words for snow that will support your weight, snow that can be packed well enough to make an igloo, etc. And remember, don't eat the yellow snow!

[Nightgaun7]

actually their language is like ours so when you say they have 99 words for snow in reality that means they have words like snowing, and snowfall and snowed all of which are different words and all refer to snow.

I'm aware of this, but it was a joke. I was wondering if I needed to include a disclaimer before I posted...

[Blueiji]

Off the top of my head I can't think of any other classes that you didn't mention that would be good for spear throwing, but I'll comment again if I think of one.

Just thought of another one, Psychic Warrior.

And, even though it doesn't have much to do with Spear Throwing, a Binder. You can pretty much do anything with a Binder, as long as you pick the right vestiges.

I would suggest to make a ToB type character who uses spears, but none of the diciplines really support ranged combat, of course, this class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156145) fixes that (even though it's called "Sublime Archer", it supports any sort of ranged combat). Many DMs don't like ToB however, so you may not be able to use that class.

[Jeff the Green]

For a shamany character, a possibility is Spirit Shaman. Essentially the druidic version of favored soul. A bonus is that a lot of druid spells are used for buffing animals, so with Wild Cohort you're in luck. Maybe adapt Silverwood Arcanist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031209a) for divine casting.

[Nightgaun7]

After doing some reading in each of the eleventy-billion sourcebooks, I've narrowed it down to Druid, Ranger, or Wildshape Ranger from UA. Spirit Shaman might be cool but looks to be a bit too oriented around handling ghosts and such.

Edit: I've also noticed several different versions of Harpoon stats, and I'm wondering which ones is the best representation, or if I should just stick to using javelins and calling them harpoons?

[Blueiji]

After doing some reading in each of the eleventy-billion sourcebooks, I've narrowed it down to Druid, Ranger, Wildshape Ranger from UA, or Spirit Shaman.

Edit: I've also noticed several different versions of Harpoon stats, and I'm wondering which ones is the best representation, or if I should just stick to using javelins and calling them harpoons? I though about using a <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/harpmd.jpg">Harpoon</a>...

I would find out what classes the other members of your party are. If they're running full-casting, tier one types, play as a Druid, if they're less elaborate things, such as the classes in tiers 3 and 4, then go for one of the two Rangers or Spirit Shaman. If you're concerned with power, then know that the Wild Shape Ranger is strictly better than the normal Ranger.

Just wondering, if you take one of the classes that gives a pet, would you still take Wild Cohort? You technically could, and then you would have two animals. Perhaps if you used two huskies, you could have them pull a sled? It fits with he Eskimo theme. :smallbiggrin:

As for Harpoons, I would just go with a spear or javelin and re-fluff it, like you said. It keeps things simpler, and unless the harpoon has some special abilities or something, it's better to us just use something more common (at least, in my opinion). AS long as you're going with a arctic theme, you may also want a club (as your secondary weapon) as they are much more common to the arctic then some of the other weapons in the Player's Handbook (although perhaps Frostburn has some arctic weapons, I haven't checked).

I tried really hard to use the phrase "but that's just the tip of the iceburg" somewhere in my suggestions above, but I was at a loss for where to put it. It's too bad too, that was a perfectly good pun gone to waste. :smallfrown:

[Ashtagon]

actually their language is like ours so when you say they have 99 words for snow in reality that means they have words like snowing, and snowfall and snowed all of which are different words and all refer to snow.

Eskimos probably wonder why we have so many words for mud...


Daring hypothesis: English words for “mud”, “near-mud”, “dried-mud”, and “mud like” outnumber Eskimo words for “snow”, “near-snow”, etc. etc.

Can this be true? Let’s have a look! (GJV)

Sludge, muck, slush, rile, slut, slime, bog, stabble (mud made by footprints), marsh, swill, ooze, slip, morass, slunk (a muddy or marshy place), mere, pulk, swamp, cay, blash, baygall, quag, quagmire, sump, slosh, sludge, squash, wichert (white, chalky mud, Bucks.), sleech (mud deposited by a river), clart, fen, humus, slough, bauger, slabber, warp (a moist bed of alluvial sediment), mush, chaitia (dried mud), gumbo, slumgullion (a muddy deposit in a mining sluice, US), slop, wallow, squad (dial., soft mud), slurry (thin mud or cement), parafango (a mixture of mud and paraffin), sludder, stodge (thick, tenacious mud), quicksand, schlich, slake (mud left by the tide), soss (a slop, Sc), cloam (potter’s mud), sinkhole, gunk, goo, clay, slob[Ir], palus, mire, slather (thin mud, Yorks.), sewerage (street mud), adobe (dried mud), limus, silt, loam, smirch, clag (mud entangled with wool on sheep), and this is only a start. Source: OED2

Note: the urban legend that Eskimos have hundreds of different words for snow can be traced to The Handbook of North American Indians, Franz Boas, 1911. Boas provides four Eskimo words for snow in this book, and merely notes the distinct roots of "aput" (snow on the ground) and "gana" (falling snow). This idea was expanded and published in an article called "Science and Linguistics" in the MIT journal, "Technology Review" in 1940. This article did not list any of the words, but proposed that there must be at least seven distinct words for snow. This article was widely cited and republished, and the number of words steadily grew to its current "urban legend guesstimate" of 400.


After doing some reading in each of the eleventy-billion sourcebooks, I've narrowed it down to Druid, Ranger, Wildshape Ranger from UA, or Spirit Shaman.

One of the Dragon magazines (print edition in the 300s) had a wizard variant eskimo class.

[Nightgaun7]

I would find out what classes the other members of your party are. If they're running full-casting, tier one types, play as a Druid, if they're less elaborate things, such as the classes in tiers 3 and 4, then go for one of the two Rangers or Spirit Shaman. If you're concerned with power, then know that the Wild Shape Ranger is strictly better than the normal Ranger.

Just wondering, if you take one of the classes that gives a pet, would you still take Wild Cohort? You technically could, and then you would have two animals. Perhaps if you used two huskies, you could have them pull a sled? It fits with he Eskimo theme. :smallbiggrin:

As for Harpoons, I would just go with a spear or javelin and re-fluff it, like you said. It keeps things simpler, and unless the harpoon has some special abilities or something, it's better to us just use something more common (at least, in my opinion). AS long as you're going with a arctic theme, you may also want a club (as your secondary weapon) as they are much more common to the arctic then some of the other weapons in the Player's Handbook (although perhaps Frostburn has some arctic weapons, I haven't checked).

I tried really hard to use the phrase "but that's just the tip of the iceburg" somewhere in my suggestions above, but I was at a loss for where to put it. It's too bad too, that was a perfectly good pun gone to waste. :smallfrown:

There's one other player character, who's a halfling Rogue 1 / Swashbuckler 3/ Bard 1. Not entirely sure on supporting NPCs, think it's a cleric and a bard?

I would definitely consider taking Wild Cohort, but not two huskies. If I really need something to pull a sled, I'll use the halfling >_>

For weapons, I saw that the harpoon from Stormwrack and Frostburn are identical, so I'd say that's an authoritative version. Not sure how good it is, though. Also looking at the ritiik, as a melee weapon, since it's a nautical themed campaign and it's a bit like a boathook. Again, no idea how good, cause I haven't refreshed my memory of all the rules yet, so I hope they're not both horrible >_<

In any event, the weapon selection can be sorted later. Time to bust out pencil, paper, and sourcebooks. Thanks for the help so far, keep it coming!

[prufock]

This is turning into a language thread!

Inuttitut/Inuktitut language actually uses lots of compound words, much like German, with no spacing between them, but the root words are the same. So yes, they have a different word for wet, sticky snow than light, fluffy snow, but it's basically the English equivalent of saying wetstickysnow and lightfluffysnow. They are "different" words only because they are compounded.

Straight druid is fantastic. Level 5 you have wild shape, huzzah! Wouldn't so much go ranger for this build, since you sound like you want to go with ranged javelin attacks, and Combat Style gives you Manyshot, which you can't use with javelins. Kind of a waste. Of course you don't get this til 6th level anyway, so if you won't be advancing it makes no difference. Wild Shape ranger variant could be an option.

I actually sort of like Dwarf for this character. Cha isn't too important for a druid (or ranger), you don't take a wis hit, and you get a con bump which is great for wild shape. Gnome also works. Check the Arctic variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#arcticRaces).

[Nightgaun7]

Straight druid is fantastic. Level 5 you have wild shape, huzzah! Wouldn't so much go ranger for this build, since you sound like you want to go with ranged javelin attacks, and Combat Style gives you Manyshot, which you can't use with javelins. Kind of a waste. Of course you don't get this til 6th level anyway, so if you won't be advancing it makes no difference. Wild Shape ranger variant could be an option.

I actually sort of like Dwarf for this character. Cha isn't too important for a druid (or ranger), you don't take a wis hit, and you get a con bump which is great for wild shape. Gnome also works. Check the Arctic variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#arcticRaces).

I don't suppose I could use manyshot to throw multiple harpoons? Could also go ranger and then multiclass into something else, i suppose. And if I use the harpoon from frostburn and stormwrack and tossed two, then I'd be losing the ability to use the impale feature, no?

I don't think I should take a dwarf, since I'd start calling the halfling shorty and moments later large patches of the surrounding landscape would be rather redder than previously. Could go for a Mul (are they in FR? so many books to read...)

[Nightgaun7]

I've also found out about the Mystic Ranger class, from Dragon 336. It gives up the animal companion, but if I'm using Wild cohort that's not a big deal. Thoughts?

Edit: also found out about Darfellan and Frost Folk. Both are pretty cool in their own way and could fit into this. For the Darfellan, I think it's pretty amusing to have what's essentially a humanoid killer whale be an eskimo, and frost folk are just cool :smallcool:

[bravebonebook]

At work without books, but Frost Folk definitely are interesting to play. Appear human with the added benefits. Neanderthal is also good and a Goliath could be easily modified for an arctic campaign setting.

I've used the harpoon out of Frostburn and also suggest looking at the tigerskull club, pretty good damage and couple of damage types in one weapon!

[prufock]

I don't suppose I could use manyshot to throw multiple harpoons?
Not by the rules as written, since Manyshot specifically says "fire two arrows." It's oddly specific, given that the other ranged feats in the tree (point blank, precise shot, rapid shot, far shot) allow for other ranged weapons. Your DM may waive it and let you MS harpoons.

Darfellan would be a fine choice for seafaring game. They've got some pretty cool racial abilities. The Dex hit might hurt depending on your build (since you're a ranged attacker).

[Kuulvheysoon]

Since no one else is going to say it, I might as well.

'Eskimo' is a derogatory term, roughly translated to 'Eater of Raw Meat'.

The (politically) correct term is Inuit.

/derail

[Analytica]

Note that FR has an official inuit analog culture. I forget what they were called, but they are the ones who worship Ulutiu, the god sleeping below the ice.

[HunterColt22]

Second Psychic Warrior because then you can go into Cryokenicist! Dear god Eskimo with mind powers, scary crap. Also for a pet, go the wild cohort feat, best thing to do for what you want, either grab a whale of some type or a penguin depending on what pole you are from. Besides who wouldn't want a dabber little bird that then pecks out your enemies eyes, but with class.

[Seharvepernfan]

Were I you, I'd play a ranger, take ranged combat feats, ask your DM to switch out multishot for something else (maybe quick draw?).

You'll probably be an uthgardt barbarian (race, not class). They live in the north, and especially icewind dale. There is also the sossalians (not sure if spelled right) and they are basically copy/pasted eskimos, but they live inland by the great glacier (I think).

The uthgardt have tribes based on animals, so you might have a tribe based on whales or the like.

Anyway, I would carry around a big spear (or a harpoon) and use it in melee two-handed with power attack, then switch to ranged when necessary (or vice versa).

You might want to throw in a level of barbarian if you want some more combat ability. You also might consider going scout/druid/prestige ranger (with a smidgen of barbarian if you want), if you want to fight with weapons instead of wildshaping but also want better spells than a ranger, but if you do this, for the love of god get your DM to change the feat prerequisites for prestige ranger. If you got scout 1/druid 1 as the first part of your progression, you'll have the scouts' starting skills, with a neat boost to key tracking skills and an animal companion at 2nd level (plus spells!).

Of course, straight ranger isn't terrible either.

[Nightgaun7]

Darfellan would be a fine choice for seafaring game. They've got some pretty cool racial abilities. The Dex hit might hurt depending on your build (since you're a ranged attacker).

Only if I go Ranger instead of Druid, yes?


Note that FR has an official inuit analog culture. I forget what they were called, but they are the ones who worship Ulutiu, the god sleeping below the ice.

Ulutiuns. Nomenclature department was short on funding that week.


Second Psychic Warrior because then you can go into Cryokenicist! Dear god Eskimo with mind powers, scary crap.

Personally I prefer to avoid psionics. But penguins are one of my favorite animals. Dire Penguin ahoy!



You might want to throw in a level of barbarian if you want some more combat ability. You also might consider going scout/druid/prestige ranger (with a smidgen of barbarian if you want), if you want to fight with weapons instead of wildshaping but also want better spells than a ranger, but if you do this, for the love of god get your DM to change the feat prerequisites for prestige ranger. If you got scout 1/druid 1 as the first part of your progression, you'll have the scouts' starting skills, with a neat boost to key tracking skills and an animal companion at 2nd level (plus spells!).

Of course, straight ranger isn't terrible either.

Very helpful post. I was just thinking about the feasibility of multiclassing druid and mystic ranger.

[Jeff the Green]

Since no one else is going to say it, I might as well.

'Eskimo' is a derogatory term, roughly translated to 'Eater of Raw Meat'.

The (politically) correct term is Inuit.

/derail

Not actually true. Eskimo actually means "snowshoe lacer" or "person who speaks a different language." Calling someone "Inuit" anywhere other than Canada or Greenland is probably more insulting, if anything, because you're confusing two different peoples. It would be like calling a Native American from Idaho "navajo." For the circumpolar cultures in general, Eskimo or Inuit-Yupik are the preferred terms.

Darfellan are awesome, and Mystic Ranger equally so. If you go that route, maybe tack on Wild Shape.

If you want to throw spears, consider Bloodstorm Blade from ToB (particularly if you choose a race with a Dex penalty). It lets you treat thrown attacks as melee.

[Kuulvheysoon]

In Canada, it's widely considered to be derogatory regardless.

Just one of those things, you know?

[Venger]

After doing some reading in each of the eleventy-billion sourcebooks, I've narrowed it down to Druid, Ranger, or Wildshape Ranger from UA. Spirit Shaman might be cool but looks to be a bit too oriented around handling ghosts and such.

Edit: I've also noticed several different versions of Harpoon stats, and I'm wondering which ones is the best representation, or if I should just stick to using javelins and calling them harpoons?
go with the harpoon in stormwrack. it makes your foe entangled and puts him on a leash so it's really hard for him to run away

Roll a shugenja (complete divine) or wu jen (complete arcane) and pick water as your element. be a waterbender.

shugenja makes you "ban" spells from the opposing school (fire) but that's okay, fire spells are kind of lame anyway, in exchange for greater power from your element

wu jen doesn't make you ban anything but provides somewhat smaller bonuses on spells of your chosen school.

there's lots of fun water things in Complete Mage (check out drowning glance) and of course stormwrack.

[Jeff the Green]

In Canada, it's widely considered to be derogatory regardless.

Just one of those things, you know?

Not, apparently, by the Inuit of Canada. The Inuit Circumpolar Conference uses "Inuit" and "Eskimo" interchangeably, though as much as possible refers to the individual peoples by their proper names (Nunavut, Greenlanders, Yupik, Aleuts, etc.).

There is an unfortunate tendency among white people in the Americas, even those who are careful about using politically correct terms, to be about thirty years behind appropriate terminology for First Nations peoples. For example, most of the members I've met of the tribes in the area I live in (Pacific Northwest) prefer "American Indian" to "Native American," for various political and historical reasons but whites still prefer the latter phrase.

__________

For spear throwing, there's also the atlatl from (I think) Sandstorm.

[Nightgaun7]

For spear throwing, there's also the atlatl from (I think) Sandstorm.

I was wondering where to find that. Could use that in place of the bow for the manyshot feat lol

[Jeff the Green]

I was wondering where to find that. Could use that in place of the bow for the manyshot feat lol

I just looked it up, and it is in Sandstorm. Unfortunately, it kind of sucks, being basically a bow that does half the damage with half the range. It also doesn't clarify whether it requires two hands to wield, if it's a free action to reload, whether you add your strength to the damage, or if you can use it with things like Powerful Throw. Maybe see if you can just refluff a longbow as an atlatl.

[Nightgaun7]

I just looked it up, and it is in Sandstorm. Unfortunately, it kind of sucks, being basically a bow that does half the damage with half the range. It also doesn't clarify whether it requires two hands to wield, if it's a free action to reload, whether you add your strength to the damage, or if you can use it with things like Powerful Throw. Maybe see if you can just refluff a longbow as an atlatl.

Interesting, I would have figured it would increase the range band and damage of whatever object you're throwing, in this case the harpoon. Since that's sort of the whole point of an atlatl. That's kind of a bummer.

[Nightgaun7]

Well, after thinking for a bit I decided that either druid or the wildshape ranger or mystic ranger would be best. Then I thought about multiclassing mystic ranger and wildshape ranger, and then I thought that that's pretty much a ghetto druid...so if my analysis is correct, then it looks like it's Druid for me.

Then I have to pick a race. Probably going to go either human or Neanderthal. I like the flavor of the Neanderthal, but I'm not sure how much the -2 Int -2 Dex will hurt, and of course losing out on a feat.

[prufock]

Only if I go Ranger instead of Druid, yes?
Well, ranger would be more reliant on ranged attacks, but if you're planning to chuck a lot of harpoons, having as high a dex as possible in your humanoid form is still a good idea, regardless of class. Unless you take Brutal Throw, that is.

[Jeff the Green]

Well, after thinking for a bit I decided that either druid or the wildshape ranger or mystic ranger would be best. Then I thought about multiclassing mystic ranger and wildshape ranger, and then I thought that that's pretty much a ghetto druid...so if my analysis is correct, then it looks like it's Druid for me.

You wouldn't have to multiclass wildshape ranger with mystic ranger. Since they give up different things, you can just combine them to make a wildshape mystic ranger. But you're right, there's basically nothing a mystic wildshape ranger does better than a druid. (Well, sword of the arcane order, but that's kind of cheating.)

[Nightgaun7]

Just a little update, since I'm working on this slowly.

Planning to go Lawful Neutral Human Druid, focusing on arctic/water/storm type things.

Stats as follows, 32 point buy

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 16
WIS 19 [18+1 for lvl 4]
INT 12
CHA 10


48 skill points to start with
Concentration 8
Diplomacy 4
Handle Animal 4
Knowledge [Nature] 6
Ride 6
Spellcraft 8
Spot 6
Survival 6

Alternate Class Features - I haven't really been on the lookout for these, but if there are any good ones that would contribute to the theme, please mention them.

Feats, ah, so many to take, so few slots. I have 3 for race and level, and I can take a flaw to get another 1. The only guaranteed one I'm taking is Natural Spell. I obviously can't take anywhere near the amount I'm about to list, but I'm keeping an eye to character progression while looking through the books, so I might as well put them here in case anyone has input. While I have done a fair bit of reading of late, I have not scoured every book and back issue of dragon magazine, so if there's something I'm missing, please point it out. I've primarily focused on feats that help druid class strengths and/or contribute to the primary character theme; there are loads of flavorful or otherwise useful feats I skipped over for a variety of reasons.

Up for consideration, with book I found it in listed:

PHB Feats
Augment Summoning (have to take Spell Focus - Conjuration too)
Combat casting
Eschew Materials
Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Might need this to use Harpoon, but I'd rather avoid taking it if possible.
All the various metamagic feats: Empower, Enlarge, Extend, Heighten, Maximize, Quicken, Silent, Still, Widen Spell. Quicken spell seems to be the best of them, but open to helpful suggestions.

PHB II
Companion Spellbond
Flash Frost Spell
Imbued Summoning

Frostburn
Beckon the Frozen
Frozen Wildshape
Primeval Wildshape
Primitive Caster
Snowcasting
Winter's Mount
Frozen Magic
Icy Calling
Cold Spell Specialization
Frostfell Prodigy

Stormwrack
Storm Magic

Complete Adventurer
Natural Bond
Savage Grapple

Complete Arcane
Lord of the Uttercold
Energy Substitution - change other spells to cold. Might be tough to get Knowledge [arcana] to 5 ranks as a druid though
Energy Admixture
Soul of the North
Sculpt Spell
Twin Spell
Innate Spell

Complete Divine
There are a buttload of wildshape substitutes in here, hard to tell which ones are worth it. It seems, in general, like you would be better off just using wildshape.

Complete Champion
Bestial Charge
Elemental Essence
Great and Small
Swift Wildshape

Complete Warrior
Zen Archery - might be useful for chucking harpoons?

Complete Mage
Retributive Spell - could use to hit enemies with spells while fighting in wildshape?
Reserve feats - quite a few of these, I like the idea of having spells to fall back on but not sure if they're good or not. Candidates are clap of thunder, stormbolt, summon elemental, and winter's blast
Residual magic might be fun for zapping

Player's Guide to Faerun
Too bad Initiate of Nature requires you to serve one of three lame deities

Champions of Ruin
Entangling Spell - no evil alignment requirement and it might be a neat way to simulate freezing people
Lingering Spell - again, might be good for simulating the chill of cold spells

Libris Mortis
Fell Weaken or Ennervate Spell might also be good ways to simulate the extreme cold of some spells

Unearthed Arcana
Omniscient Whispers might be fun to simulate speaking with the ancestors
Polar Chill

[Blueiji]

Stats as follows, 32 point buy

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 16
WIS 19 [18+1 for lvl 4]
INT 12
CHA 10


You mentioned Zen Archery, and looking at your DEX score you're going to have to take that feat as soon as possible if you want to be good at chucking harpoons.

If you need more feats or want a +2 to any ability score that you want, I'd check out this class (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#humanParagon). It only loses one caster level and doesn't count against XP penalties (if your DM uses that).

The "Nymph's Kiss" feat (http://dndtools.eu/feats/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/nymphs-kiss--2073/) is also a favorite of mine. Although it's from the BoED you don't actually have to be good to get it. It would help you out a bit with your handle animal and diplomacy, give a small saving throw bonus, and most iportatnly, snag you more skill points. Remember that if you take that feat at level 1, then you'll get 4 extra at the beginning instead of 1.

[Nightgaun7]

I should have mentioned that those ability scores aren't fixed yet, so if I should shuffle them around for some reason, just say the word.

[Nightgaun7]

You mentioned Zen Archery, and looking at your DEX score you're going to have to take that feat as soon as possible if you want to be good at chucking harpoons.

The "Nymph's Kiss" feat (http://dndtools.eu/feats/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/nymphs-kiss--2073/) is also a favorite of mine. Although it's from the BoED you don't actually have to be good to get it. It would help you out a bit with your handle animal and diplomacy, give a small saving throw bonus, and most iportatnly, snag you more skill points. Remember that if you take that feat at level 1, then you'll get 4 extra at the beginning instead of 1.

Yes, that's why I included it. I may be frail and uncoordinated by my vast knowledge of the universe says you need a harpoon in the head and here's how to do it. Or something.

Getting 4 extra from Nymph's Kiss seems to be going counter to the spirit of the rule, and in any event I have enough skill points and no good fey to cozy up to just yet. But hey, maybe I'll end up repeatedly summoning a good-looking puddle. I guess the biggest black mark against it is that it doesn't really change the way the class does things, just makes it better at what it already does (though that 2 extra, if put into wisdom, is another spell in every level...)

EDIT: Better yet, combine the two for an extra feat and an extra two spells at every level thanks to wisdom stacking. Awww yiss

[hex0]

You could go Druid->Prestige Ranger, too.

[Venger]

Although it's from the BoED you don't actually have to be good to get it. It would help you out a bit with your handle animal and diplomacy, give a small saving throw bonus, and most iportatnly, snag you more skill points. Remember that if you take that feat at level 1, then you'll get 4 extra at the beginning instead of 1.

that's unfortunately not true. nymph's kiss has the "exalted" descriptor, and thus is an exalted feat, which means that it's su instead of ex (you lose it in an antimagic field), you are required to be of a good alignment, you radiate an aura of good at your character level as though you were a good cleric, and you lose the feat if you ever intentionally commit an evil act.

since druid must be good on one axis, that means NG is OP's only choice, whereas he's already expressed interest LN.

why is your cha a 10? are you planning to use wild empathy a lot or be the party face?

as far as feats go, advice is within the spoiler to make my post not so huge

PHB Feats
Augment Summoning (have to take Spell Focus - Conjuration too)
Combat castingthis feat really sucks. don't take it
Eschew Materials- unnecessary due to natural spell. you can explicitly use material components melded in your body.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Might need this to use Harpoon, but I'd rather avoid taking it if possible. you are a druid, you're not using weapons
All the various metamagic feats: Empower, Enlarge, Extend, Heighten, Maximize, Quicken, Silent, Still, Widen Spell. Quicken spell seems to be the best of them, but open to helpful suggestions. flash frost has no prereqs, so you can take that and avoid the lame ones in the phb.

PHB II
Companion Spellbond- good if you're going to make sure you have full companion progression through your build
Flash Frost Spell- awesome, but make sure you have the requisite 5 ranks in balance to avoid being flat-footed while on the ice.
Imbued Summoning- this feat is actually something of a trap. there are barely any spells that actually qualify to put on your monsters, and unless you're going summoning-central (malconvoker, alienist, or the like) you're not going to be summoning enough to make this worthwhile anyway

Frostburn
Beckon the Frozen- excellent feat, but see above on summoning
Frozen Wildshape- cryohydra alone makes it worth it
Primeval Wildshape- this kind of sucks, since it turns your wild shape into 1/round for a very minor boost
Primitive Caster- this is pretty decent, especially in combination with natural spell, which all druids are required to take.
Snowcasting- this goes very well in combination with flash frost spell. snowcasting to add cold to the descriptor, and then flash frost to make it deal more damage and leave an ice slick behind. do it with something like entangle, and you've got an extremely nasty effect for a 2nd lvl slot
Winter's Mount- while this does let you bomb the hell out of your poor AC with cold spells, uttercold assault style, it's not worth it if you plan on PrCing into anything that doesn't progress your AC abilities. your AC should ideally be a good grappler in this scenario, to hold enemies in place for your cold spells
Frozen Magicdm dependent, so talk to your dm. needs snowcasting
Icy Callingalso needs snowcasting, and see above on summoning
Cold Spell Specializationsince you need snowcasting AND frozen magic for a rather minor damage effect (you can do more in wild shape) I'd say skip it
Frostfell Prodigyagain, DM dependent and requires very heavy feat investment, from snowcasting, frozen magic, and cold focus. cold focus on its own might be worth it because of snowcasting, but remember, it only works on area spells, of which there are few.

Stormwrack
Storm Magicalso very dm dependent on fluff.

Complete Adventurer
Natural Bondonly useful if you're not in classes that progress your AC, which several of your other feats assume you are
Savage Grappleare you planning on acquiring sneak attack somewhere down the line on your build? if not, this will not do anything.

Complete Arcane
Lord of the Uttercolddue to problems with arcana, you might have trouble, but due to snowcasting making more spells (cold) and this not boosting lvl, this seems pretty good. beware though, winter's mount doesn't protect your AC from negative energy damage, and druids suck at being necromancers.
Energy Substitution - change other spells to cold. Might be tough to get Knowledge [arcana] to 5 ranks as a druid though the feat "education" from ECS gives all knowledges as class skills forever. takable only at 1. able learner from RoD also makes all CC only cost normal if you didn't mind waiting until after level 7 to have energy sub (cold). seems somewhat unneccessary if you can adapt a spell to cold on the fly with snowcasting
Energy Admixturevery feat intensive, and in the absence of reducers (which seems unlikely given your inability to turn/rebuke) you'll have a hard time casting this on spells high enough to matter
Soul of the Northnot worth it
Sculpt Spell can be extremely interesting in combination with flash frost spell. entangle, again, can be hilarious with this
Twin Spelldue to heavy feat investment and level boosting of spells, it's worth asking how often you would use it
Innate SpellDO NOT TAKE THIS. it is an absolutely huge trap and is not useful at all, besides requiring 3 lame feats you're not going to use.

Complete Divine
There are a buttload of wildshape substitutes in here, hard to tell which ones are worth it. It seems, in general, like you would be better off just using wildshape.you are more or less correct as far as wild feats go

Complete Champion
Bestial Chargeusable pretty much on the first round of combat. not worth it numerically
Elemental Essencewild shape for 3 points on damage for 1 minute? your wild shape could do more than that
Great and Smallwild shape already lets you yoyo your size, and it does it for much longer than a minute
Swift Wildshapekinda cool, but requires fast wild shape first, making this pretty useless

Complete Warrior
Zen Archery - might be useful for chucking harpoons?you're not going to really need harpoons though. WS and spells deal much better damage

Complete Mage
Retributive Spell - could use to hit enemies with spells while fighting in wildshape?natural spell does this and more
Reserve feats - quite a few of these, I like the idea of having spells to fall back on but not sure if they're good or not. Candidates are clap of thunder, stormbolt, summon elemental, and winter's blast
Residual magic might be fun for zappingthese are more or less a judgement call. you can pick one to further boost your CL for cold spells, since many of your other feats will do this.

Player's Guide to Faerun
Too bad Initiate of Nature requires you to serve one of three lame deities

Champions of Ruin
Entangling Spell - no evil alignment requirement and it might be a neat way to simulate freezing peoplethis is pretty fun, but +2 is a little steep. ask what spells you'd use it on
Lingering Spell - again, might be good for simulating the chill of cold spellsthe damage here is pretty low for +1 to spell lvl

Libris Mortis
Fell Weaken or Ennervate Spell might also be good ways to simulate the extreme cold of some spellsthis is true and also these metamagics require no prereqs, letting you take the "1 other metamagics" later if you want

Unearthed Arcana
Omniscient Whispers might be fun to simulate speaking with the ancestorsit is pretty fun, but the raiment of the 4 (a not too expensive item set from the MiC) does the same thing
Polar Chillspells and flashfrost spell already do this[/QUOTE]

[nedz]

Have you looked at the Stormlord PrC from CDiv ? There is a fluffy requirement you will need to get your DM to waive, but it is a divine caster which specialises in spears, and weather.

Also look at the Quiver of Ehlonna from the DMG, if you intend to throw spears then this is quite useful.

[OzzyKP]

Not actually true. Eskimo actually means "snowshoe lacer" or "person who speaks a different language." Calling someone "Inuit" anywhere other than Canada or Greenland is probably more insulting, if anything, because you're confusing two different peoples. It would be like calling a Native American from Idaho "navajo." For the circumpolar cultures in general, Eskimo or Inuit-Yupik are the preferred terms.



Not, apparently, by the Inuit of Canada. The Inuit Circumpolar Conference uses "Inuit" and "Eskimo" interchangeably, though as much as possible refers to the individual peoples by their proper names (Nunavut, Greenlanders, Yupik, Aleuts, etc.).

There is an unfortunate tendency among white people in the Americas, even those who are careful about using politically correct terms, to be about thirty years behind appropriate terminology for First Nations peoples. For example, most of the members I've met of the tribes in the area I live in (Pacific Northwest) prefer "American Indian" to "Native American," for various political and historical reasons but whites still prefer the latter phrase.


Cool, I learned something, thanks. :smallsmile:

[Nightgaun7]

why is your cha a 10? are you planning to use wild empathy a lot or be the party face?

10 is all you need to be the party face? Wow. I was planning to leave most of that to the rogue/swashbuckler/bard, so should I switch those two points to a 10 in Dex or Str?

Replying to advice, all in one spoiler. My comments in italics.


PHB Feats
Augment Summoning (have to take Spell Focus - Conjuration too)
Is this good or not? No idea. Given the other comments on summoning, I'm presuming you don't think this is a good idea
Eschew Materials- unnecessary due to natural spell. you can explicitly use material components melded in your body.
I was thinking more for getting rid of material components than using them in wild form, not sure how useful it is on the whole.

All the various metamagic feats: Empower, Enlarge, Extend, Heighten, Maximize, Quicken, Silent, Still, Widen Spell. Quicken spell seems to be the best of them, but open to helpful suggestions. flash frost has no prereqs, so you can take that and avoid the lame ones in the phb.
All the ones in the PHB are lame? really? Why is that? Would the Sudden Versions from Complete Arcane be better?

PHB II
Flash Frost Spell- awesome, but make sure you have the requisite 5 ranks in balance to avoid being flat-footed while on the ice.
Why is this so awesome? The save DC seems rather low and it's only useable on cold AoE spells. The extra damage is nice, but not on the level of some other metamagic feats. Can you explain what I'm missing?

Frostburn
Beckon the Frozen- excellent feat, but see above on summoning
I really like this one from a flavor perspective, but if it require two useless feats to get into then no deal. It really depends on whether Spell Focus [Conjuration] and Augment Summoning are worth it by themselves, which I can't say.

Primitive Caster- this is pretty decent, especially in combination with natural spell, which all druids are required to take.
I hadn't thought of that, and I definitely love the flavor.

Snowcasting- this goes very well in combination with flash frost spell. snowcasting to add cold to the descriptor, and then flash frost to make it deal more damage and leave an ice slick behind. do it with something like entangle, and you've got an extremely nasty effect for a 2nd lvl slot
One issue: getting the snow or ice to add to the spell. It says "adding the additional material component requires you to spend a move action immediately before the spell is cast to gather fresh snow or ice from the surrounding environment. This snow can be magically created by a conjuration spell, but no other ice manifested by a spell will do. You may take no other action between gathering the snow or ice and casting the spell." I have no real idea how much this gimps this feat, but it seems like it might hurt it quite a bit. The use of a move action, and having to have snow around. Is there an item or something I could use to always have some snow or ice on hand? I also feel like there should be some way to get an aura of cold that would help with the rest of this tree, though as you point out, very feat-hungry and somewhat situational. Which is a shame, because that's a number of cold-oriented feats.

Complete Adventurer
Natural Bondonly useful if you're not in classes that progress your AC, which several of your other feats assume you are
Would this not cancel out some of the penalties associated with more powerful Animal Companions? Seems like it would be good for that.

Energy Substitution - change other spells to cold. Might be tough to get Knowledge [arcana] to 5 ranks as a druid though the feat "education" from ECS gives all knowledges as class skills forever. takable only at 1. able learner from RoD also makes all CC only cost normal if you didn't mind waiting until after level 7 to have energy sub (cold). seems somewhat unneccessary if you can adapt a spell to cold on the fly with snowcasting
Would I be better off using snowcasting, or taking this? I would lean towards this one, but hard to say.

Twin Spelldue to heavy feat investment and level boosting of spells, it's worth asking how often you would use it
Not sure, but I imagine it's generally useful? Surely Twinned Blizzard or Call Avalanche are loads of fun. And snow.


I feel like I'm missing out on ways to get maximum cold and ocean-ness.

[Venger]

10 isn't all you need to be the face, it's just that I did not understand why you were bothering putting points in charisma since you're doing PB. charisma really doesn't do much for druids, so the points could be better spent elsewhere. I wouldn't say str/dex, you were right to dump those, but perhaps more con would help (WS doesn't change your HP due to con)
reply in spoiler:

Augment summoning is very feat intensive and worth it only if you're going to specialize in summoning, which it really doesn't seem like you're going to do, so I would caution against it.

eschew materials is not useful on the whole, and is certainly not worth a feat.

all of the metamagic feats in the PHB aren't lame, but you are not going to be focused around metamagic, and don't have any extra metamagic feats. enlarge, maximize, and widen are all pretty darn disappointing. empower is ok if you're gonna blast, extend is decent for all-day buffs, silent/still are unnecessary due to natural spell, and I don't have much bad to say about quicken, just that you really shouldn't take it until you can actually use it, and remember CArc nerfed it so that quickened spells take a swift action now instead of a free one

don't take the sudden x ones, they're pretty useless since they're just 1/day.

flash frost spell is awesome because it provides an area of ice/cold wherever you are to power your cold-related feats (+CL in cold area, need handful of snow and ice, CL boosted in cold temperature, etc) and because it provokes a DC 10 balance check for as long as they stay in the area. the area of the spell is much much larger than grease/ice slick, and the extra damage doesnt hurt either. this is essentially like casting a huge ice slick on top of your other spell. when an enemy is balancing, they lose their dex mod to AC (are flatfooted) so are easier to hit in general, and susceptible to sneak attack, (since your swashbuckler seems to be going daring outlaw, he'll appreciate this) that's why this is worth a +1. plus theres no prereqs

beckon the frozen isn't bad on its own, but it's good for summoners, whih you don't appear to be.

I also thought youd like primitive caster.

as far as snowcasting goes, talk to your dm and see if he's going to make it a problem or not. as mentioned above, flash frost spell should about do the job

natural bond doesn't let you offset the negative modifier for picking a better AC. it just fills in non-druid levels for that purpose, kinda like practiced spellcaster

twin spell boosts the spell level by 4. how are you going to cast 9th level spells modified by this without any metamagic reducers in place?

[Nightgaun7]

Have you looked at the Stormlord PrC from CDiv ? There is a fluffy requirement you will need to get your DM to waive, but it is a divine caster which specialises in spears, and weather.

Also look at the Quiver of Ehlonna from the DMG, if you intend to throw spears then this is quite useful.

I haven't really been looking into Prestige Classes all that much so far. Wanted to get the basics down first. But I guess I should start looking into them.


10 isn't all you need to be the face, it's just that I did not understand why you were bothering putting points in charisma since you're doing PB. charisma really doesn't do much for druids, so the points could be better spent elsewhere. I wouldn't say str/dex, you were right to dump those, but perhaps more con would help (WS doesn't change your HP due to con)

Duly noted.

EDIT: I definitely intend to use my summons. I just don't know how useful they'll be or how much I should focus on them to make them better.

reply in spoiler:

Augment summoning is very feat intensive and worth it only if you're going to specialize in summoning, which it really doesn't seem like you're going to do, so I would caution against it.

beckon the frozen isn't bad on its own, but it's good for summoners, whih you don't appear to be.

Could you discuss summoning and the the pros and cons a bit more? I really don't know that much about it?


natural bond doesn't let you offset the negative modifier for picking a better AC. it just fills in non-druid levels for that purpose, kinda like practiced spellcaster
I confess that I don't entirely understand the animal companion mechanics just yet, but it seems like natural bond would make your pet a decent bit more powerful, no? The text of the feat says "Add three to your effective druid level for the purpose of determining the bonus Hit Dice, extra tricks, special abilities, and other bonuses that your animal companion receives (see page 36 of the Player's Handbook). This bonus can never make your effective druid level exceed your character level." To use the example from the PHB, if I select a leopard from the alternative list, the leopard would gain abilities as if I were a level 3 druid, instead of level 6. Natural Bond would seem to me to make that leopard count as a level 6 leopard instead of a level 3 leopard, which means better HD, natural armor, STR/Dex bonus, tricks, and speacial abilities. To use the leopard again...

{table=head]Druid level | Leopard | Leopard w/ Natural Bond
Bonus HD | 2 | 4
Natural Armor Adj. | 2 | 4
STR/DEX Adj | 1 | 2
Bonus Tricks | 2 | 3
Special | Link, share spells, evasion | As base leopard, plus Devotion
[/table]

It would also mean earlier access to more powerful animals in general.

twin spell boosts the spell level by 4. how are you going to cast 9th level spells modified by this without any metamagic reducers in place?
I just mentioned two spells I could remember that would be fun to do twinning on, honestly didn't recall the spell level or the metamaic adjustment since I wrote the majority of that post at 4 am australian time lol




Thank you for all the pointers so far. Is there anything you know of that is oriented around the ocean and preferably the cold, black, crushing depths?

[eggs]

This spoiler thing is terrible, so I'm just going to respond directly.

I wouldn't make a Druid without Quicken by level 12. Turning into a bear and eating the baddies is just so much more worthwhile if you're casting spells at them or self-buffing at the same time.

Natural Bond is the source of all sorts of disagreements. I'd assume the conservative use, but if the other one is in play, grab it up quickly.

At the low levels when Beckon the Frozen is most beneficial and the 1d6 cold damage really matter, you might just want to chuck a Conjure Ice Beast. They're pretty friendly to low-level summoning non-specialists (but they don't age well to mid- to high-levels).

[Nightgaun7]

This spoiler thing is terrible, so I'm just going to respond directly.

I wouldn't make a Druid without Quicken by level 12. Turning into a bear and eating the baddies is just so much more worthwhile if you're casting spells at them or self-buffing at the same time.

Natural Bond is the source of all sorts of disagreements. I'd assume the conservative use, but if the other one is in play, grab it up quickly.

At the low levels when Beckon the Frozen is most beneficial and the 1d6 cold damage really matter, you might just want to chuck a Conjure Ice Beast. They're pretty friendly to low-level summoning non-specialists (but they don't age well to mid- to high-levels).

That's about what I thought on Quicken.

Interesting, Natural Bond seemed pretty straightforward to me.

I'm not entirely sure what you meant by the Beckon the Frozen bit though. Are you saying that instead of taking beckon the frozen, I should simply use Conjure Ice Beast?

[eggs]

I'm not entirely sure what you meant by the Beckon the Frozen bit though. Are you saying that instead of taking beckon the frozen, I should simply use Conjure Ice Beast?
If you're just looking at Beckon the frozen for the 1d6 cold damage, that's not worth much at high levels, but at low levels, it's great.

But at those same low levels, CIB still isn't totally worthless yet, and comes with +4 Str and +1d6 cold damage built in before investing any feats, as well as a bit of extra passive cold damage and a big HP boost.

The downside is that CIB has a bunch of problems that make it scale really poorly - its summons are all dumb attackers without the abilities to make them worth summoning (trip, improved grab, fly, pounce, etc), plus various other downsides like Construct type's HP bonuses losing their edge to normal summons' Con*HD and CIB missing out on all the tools that summoner specialists have like Augment Summoning and Summoners' Totems.

So if you're looking at that 1d6 cold and thinking how awesome it would be to get a few times a round from a Badger's full attack at level 1 to 3, CIB makes a reasonable facsimile for 3 fewer feats. But if you actually want to specialize at summoning or get something like SLAs or Improved Grab+Constrict, CIB won't help at all.

[Nightgaun7]

If you're just looking at Beckon the frozen for the 1d6 cold damage, that's not worth much at high levels, but at low levels, it's great.

But at those same low levels, CIB still isn't totally worthless yet, and comes with +4 Str and +1d6 cold damage built in before investing any feats, as well as a bit of extra passive cold damage and a big HP boost.

The downside is that CIB has a bunch of problems that make it scale really poorly - its summons are all dumb attackers without the abilities to make them worth summoning (trip, improved grab, fly, pounce, etc), plus various other downsides like Construct type's HP bonuses losing their edge to normal summons' Con*HD and CIB missing out on all the tools that summoner specialists have like Augment Summoning and Summoners' Totems.

So if you're looking at that 1d6 cold and thinking how awesome it would be to get a few times a round from a Badger's full attack at level 1 to 3, CIB makes a reasonable facsimile for 3 fewer feats. But if you actually want to specialize at summoning or get something like SLAs or Improved Grab+Constrict, CIB won't help at all.

The main thing was to summon cold animals rather than the 1d6 bonus.

As you pointed out and i failed to notice, that's a 3 feat investment, and to get cold animals I could just use CIB, making beckon the frozen kinda lame. Bummer. I want better cold feats, dang it!

I should go back ad look for water/storm feat, though some of them have already been shot down.

[Venger]

I haven't really been looking into Prestige Classes all that much so far. Wanted to get the basics down first. But I guess I should start looking into them.



Thank you for all the pointers so far. Is there anything you know of that is oriented around the ocean and preferably the cold, black, crushing depths?

@Nightgaun7, you're quite welcome, I'm more than happy to do it.

the blackwater domain is centered around stuff like that, but a druid can't make much use of it via arcane disciple nor through domains.

however, worshipping the devourer (faiths of eberron) or blibdoolpoolp (stormwrack) provides a lot of cool stuff fluffwise. they are both really interesting religions, and center around cold, black, crushing depths.

there's a bunch of oddball spells in stormwrack that deal pressure damage, some on the druid list, so you ought to check them out.

Prcs were mentioned because you really have to build from the ground up to qualify for most all of them, it's not something you can casually take a level of here and there, and I think you'v ementioned you're starting at level 5

here's everything you could ever want to know about summoning better than I could explain it (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864066/Summoning_Handbook) but the upshot is, that unless you want to specialize in summoning, and do that really well to the exclusion of other things (investing class levels/feats, etc into it) it is really not worth it. unbuffed, out the box, unmodded summon monsters/natures allies, are not that awesome, and if you're just gonna put 1 feat or two into it, you shouldn't bother at all. this goes for all the summoning stuff: augment, SF (conj) (worthless feat tax, many conj spells either do not have saves, or are utilities where saves don't come up) , beckon frozen, etc.

if in your research you come across the "summoner handbook" on the playground written by saph, do not read it, it will confuse you. that is about the pathfinder base class "summoner" which is not what you want. saph is a cool guy and knows lots about the game, but that handbook does not fit for a druid.

CIB is indeed good at low levels, especially due to construct immunities, if you end up against an enemy with poison (a lot of low level monsters have poison, and it's a problem all through the game) paralyze, etc. the HP is a bit of a downer, but the spell as a whole is a good thematic choice for an ice themed druid character

the upshot of natural bond is, that it can raise your effective druid level for the purpose of animal companion by 3. so if you were druid 3/ xx 3, and took natural bond, your animal companion would have 6th level abilities.

all right. let's go with your leopard example. leopard reduces your AC abilities by 3, because it's got pounce, climb, imp grab, and is a pretty good AC.

your analysis is correct, because 6 +3 -3 = 6.

twin is easy to forget, it's pretty rare.

@eggs, I agree, I did it the first time because my post was eleven billion feet long and I didn't want to get a warning like people do when they post horribly wide images without spoiler tags, didn't mean to offend you. now that our list of discussion topics is shorter, it's unneccessary.

your thoughts on quicken are quite correct, but I was just cautioning that taking it at level 5 or earlier wouldnt be such an awesome choice since, in the abscence of reducers which do not seem to be present, you can use it at the earliest at druid 9 (I'm not going to pretend OP wants to quicken orisions) and it sucks to have a feat that doesn't do anything for a long time.

[eggs]

I was just cautioning that taking it at level 5 or earlier wouldnt be such an awesome choice since, in the abscence of reducers which do not seem to be present, you can use it at the earliest at druid 9
Very fair point. In that case, I agree.

Some builds might retrain metamagics into those low-level feat slots at higher levels, but it's usually best to stock up on feats that are immediately beneficial.

[hex0]

Have you looked at the Stormlord PrC from CDiv ? There is a fluffy requirement you will need to get your DM to waive, but it is a divine caster which specialises in spears, and weather.

Also look at the Quiver of Ehlonna from the DMG, if you intend to throw spears then this is quite useful.

Change the electricity flavor to cold and Stormlord would work great.

[Nightgaun7]

@Nightgaun7, you're quite welcome, I'm more than happy to do it.

the blackwater domain is centered around stuff like that, but a druid can't make much use of it via arcane disciple nor through domains.

however, worshipping the devourer (faiths of eberron) or blibdoolpoolp (stormwrack) provides a lot of cool stuff fluffwise. they are both really interesting religions, and center around cold, black, crushing depths.

there's a bunch of oddball spells in stormwrack that deal pressure damage, some on the druid list, so you ought to check them out.

Prcs were mentioned because you really have to build from the ground up to qualify for most all of them, it's not something you can casually take a level of here and there, and I think you'v ementioned you're starting at level 5

here's everything you could ever want to know about summoning better than I could explain it (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864066/Summoning_Handbook) but the upshot is, that unless you want to specialize in summoning, and do that really well to the exclusion of other things (investing class levels/feats, etc into it) it is really not worth it. unbuffed, out the box, unmodded summon monsters/natures allies, are not that awesome, and if you're just gonna put 1 feat or two into it, you shouldn't bother at all. this goes for all the summoning stuff: augment, SF (conj) (worthless feat tax, many conj spells either do not have saves, or are utilities where saves don't come up) , beckon frozen, etc.

if in your research you come across the "summoner handbook" on the playground written by saph, do not read it, it will confuse you. that is about the pathfinder base class "summoner" which is not what you want. saph is a cool guy and knows lots about the game, but that handbook does not fit for a druid.

CIB is indeed good at low levels, especially due to construct immunities, if you end up against an enemy with poison (a lot of low level monsters have poison, and it's a problem all through the game) paralyze, etc. the HP is a bit of a downer, but the spell as a whole is a good thematic choice for an ice themed druid character

the upshot of natural bond is, that it can raise your effective druid level for the purpose of animal companion by 3. so if you were druid 3/ xx 3, and took natural bond, your animal companion would have 6th level abilities.

all right. let's go with your leopard example. leopard reduces your AC abilities by 3, because it's got pounce, climb, imp grab, and is a pretty good AC.

your analysis is correct, because 6 +3 -3 = 6.

twin is easy to forget, it's pretty rare.

@eggs, I agree, I did it the first time because my post was eleven billion feet long and I didn't want to get a warning like people do when they post horribly wide images without spoiler tags, didn't mean to offend you. now that our list of discussion topics is shorter, it's unneccessary.

your thoughts on quicken are quite correct, but I was just cautioning that taking it at level 5 or earlier wouldnt be such an awesome choice since, in the abscence of reducers which do not seem to be present, you can use it at the earliest at druid 9 (I'm not going to pretend OP wants to quicken orisions) and it sucks to have a feat that doesn't do anything for a long time.

Damn, I'm kind of commited to ulutiu as my favored deity, since my character will be ulutiun. Will check stormwrack for spells.

Frankly, I simply don't know enough about prestige classes at this point. I've heard of the Planar Druid, and that seems like a good way to become an avatar of cold or something, but that's basically the only druid prestige class I'm really aware of at this point

While summoning is cool, I don't want to be devoted to it to the point of ignoring myself, my wildshape, my animal companion, and my spellcasting.

So, given my analysis of Natural Bond, is it worth it?

Again, failed to notice the higher slot applying metamagic takes up. that's a pretty freaking hefty tax.

[what are Orisions?]

[Venger]

Damn, I'm kind of commited to ulutiu as my favored deity, since my character will be ulutiun. Will check stormwrack for spells.

Frankly, I simply don't know enough about prestige classes at this point. I've heard of the Planar Druid, and that seems like a good way to become an avatar of cold or something, but that's basically the only druid prestige class I'm really aware of at this point

While summoning is cool, I don't want to be devoted to it to the point of ignoring myself, my wildshape, my animal companion, and my spellcasting.

So, given my analysis of Natural Bond, is it worth it?

Again, failed to notice the higher slot applying metamagic takes up. that's a pretty freaking hefty tax.

[what are Orisions?]
prestige classes, you need to meet certain prerequisites (described in their entries) to take levels in them. planar shepherd, the one you are talking about, is in faiths of eberron. due to it being very powerful, it is sometimes disallowed, but since you are newish to the game and do not seem out to exploit its worse points, your DM will likely not mind very much. look it up and see wha tyou need to take levels in it, it's not very stringent.

natural bond is honestly a personal choice. if you were rolling planar shepherd, then you'd have full progression, so it would let you pick up strong ones faster, as you said, so that seems like a decent idea.

yeah, twin is pretty darn steep. I don't think it would be the best fit for your character.

orisions are divine cantrips, or level 0 spells.

[nedz]

Change the electricity flavor to cold and Stormlord would work great.

Nice idea I hadn't even considered.
But what do you change the Thunder effects to ?

[hex0]

Nice idea I hadn't even considered.
But what do you change the Thunder effects to ?

Blizzards are pretty loud too, no?

[Nightgaun7]

prestige classes, you need to meet certain prerequisites (described in their entries) to take levels in them. planar shepherd, the one you are talking about, is in faiths of eberron. due to it being very powerful, it is sometimes disallowed, but since you are newish to the game and do not seem out to exploit its worse points, your DM will likely not mind very much. look it up and see wha tyou need to take levels in it, it's not very stringent.

natural bond is honestly a personal choice. if you were rolling planar shepherd, then you'd have full progression, so it would let you pick up strong ones faster, as you said, so that seems like a decent idea.

yeah, twin is pretty darn steep. I don't think it would be the best fit for your character.

orisions are divine cantrips, or level 0 spells.

Purely out of curiosity, are there ways for druids to get wizard or cleric spell lists?

I do still like the idea of twincasting fimbulwinter, it just looks like I won't be able to : P

Could you go into a little more depth on some of the other prestige classes that might be worth it? Cursory research shows that straight Druid is better off than a number of the PrCs, and I like that it would balance the three main abilities. However, I'm open to other ideas.

Incidentally, I also would like to be decent at buffing my other party member. Can I do a reasonably good job of this out of the box, or is there something I should look at to be better at it?

I'm slowly working my way through the various books for Druid spells, but even so I can't say I'm familiar with many of them yet.

Side note: is there a way to get an Owlbear? Kinda silly, but I've always loved them.

[Nightgaun7]

Speaking of prestige classes, I did consider refluffing Lion of Talisid + Wild Cohort for a grand total of 3 animal companions, and then wildshaping into a smilodon. But then I decided the other party member might like to kill things every once in a while. and not enough COLD

[hex0]

Incidentally, I also would like to be decent at buffing my other party member. Can I do a reasonably good job of this out of the box, or is there something I should look at to be better at it?


Animalistic Power tends to do the trick for buffing almost anyone.

[eggs]

Druids are weird buffers. They have really good numeric buffs for animals and themselves (+strength, +attack, etc.), and they have really good utility buffs for party members (giving things like flight, scent, blindsight, extra attacks), but they aren't so good at giving numeric party buffs to their allies.

Just ripping from some stuff I dug up last time I saw the question:
Druids don't do numeric boosts particularly well for non-personal/animal targets, but their other buffs can be pretty good.

The big ones are Air Walk, Blindsight, Freedom of Movement, Sheltered Vitality, Death Ward and True Seeing - all of which completely negate a wide variety of threats.

They have some less gamechanging options that are still very good: Animal Shapes (party-wide polymorph; form selection is somewhat limited, but recipients become valid targets for Animal-specific buffs and HD cap is higher than Polymorph itself), Aura of Vitality (party-wide morale boosts to all physical abilities), Barkskin/Spiderskin/Tortoise Shell (various levels of Natural Armor), Bull's Strength (good buff at low levels until enhancement items come into play), Brilliant Blade/Brilliant Aura (potentially huge attack boosts, better than the weapon enhancements because the buffs turn off), Charge of the Triceratops (short duration but often very good damage output on a Sneak attacker or charger), Fires of Purity (adds fire damage for every attack; get an ally with multiple attacks, and it adds up fast), Girallon Arms (claws+rend, grapple boosts, increased strength multipliers on melee weapon damage, extra arms in a general sense), Owl's Insight (massive decent-duration wisdom bonus that stacks well), Resistances (Greater and Superior - save a good deal of GP on cloaks of resistance), Scent (heads-up for ambushes and bonuses for trackers) and Venomfire (which is broken enough that we don't really talk about it).

And then there are the circumstantially valuable spells, which the Druid can whip out any time its divinations/animal scouts or other info sources alert it to a specific type of trouble: Swim, Burrow, [Mass] Resist Energy, Energy Immunity, Mountain Stance and Cloak of the Sea (would be one of the best buffs period, if it worked out of water).

EDIT:
I think most of those are PHB and Spell Compendium

[Nightgaun7]

Sweet, thanks. I plan to always keep a buff or two on hand for the swashbuckler.

[Nightgaun7]

So this is what I'm looking at so far.

Level 1 - Natural Bond, Flash Frost Spell, [something]

Likely taking Flaw [Nature Lover]. Perfectly in character for a druid, and will encourage me not to XP farm lol. or I might take Hunted to go with my backstory

Level 3 - Sculpt Spell

Level 6 - Natural Spell

Level 9 - Frozen Wildshape

Level 12 -

Level 15 -

Level 18 -

Reserve Feat - mite b cool

Fel Weaken/Enervate Spell - Which one of these, if either, should I take? Or should I not bother and save the slot for something else?

Primitive Caster buffs both casting ability and Wildshape. Not sure how useful that buff is, but there you go.

Companion Spellbond - seems pretty useful
Winter's Mount - not sure to what extent sculpt spell will get rid of the need for this, but no point in killing your animal companion with AoE hits, from Flash Frost Spell if nothing else.

Here's a bunch of feats that I ignored earlier in favor of more thematic ones, but I'll toss them in now just to get a complete picture

Dragon Wild Shape - Blue dragon, black dragon, white, yellow, bronze, silver, adamantine, etc.
Exalted Wild Shape - Not much idea what you can do with this
Aberration Wildshape - again, not sure what form would be good/thematic for this. I need to go on a trip through the monster manual.
There may well be other [Blank] Wildshape feats I'm unaware of that would be perfect for a cold/water themed druid. Please mention them if they exist.

Multiattack & Improved Natural Attack - I don't want to step on the toes of the other PC too much, but if they're really needed to be any good then maybe.
Assume Supernatural Ability - no idea, saw it mentioned elsewhere
Fast Wildshape - Not sure how useful this would be. i think the other PC and my AC/ summoned critters ought to be able to give me breathing room to change should the need arise.

Extend Spell - Useful for prolonging buffs and such.
Ocular Spell - Would be nice if there was a breath version of this.
Persistent Spell - hooo boy the markup on this is just crazy. Still, I've seen it referred to an awful lot.

[Jeff the Green]

So this is what I'm looking at so far.

Level 1 - Natural Bond, Flash Frost Spell, [something]

Likely taking Flaw [Nature Lover]. Perfectly in character for a druid, and will encourage me not to XP farm lol. or I might take Hunted to go with my backstory

First off, as has been said, you don't need natural bond unless you're multiclassing into something that doesn't advance animal companion. There isn't really any disagreement about that fact. If you don't know if you're going to multiclass/prestige class (which, as a druid, you shouldn't), take something else now and retrain to get it once you do multiclass.

Second, I advise against homebrew flaws in general, and while I hadn't seen that one before (it's "Love of Nature", by the way, not "Nature Lover"), my position isn't any different. Flaws are supposed to make you slightly worse at something that will come up regularly (e.g. Spot/Listen checks, attack rolls, concealment miss chances). This pretty much has no effect on you once you hit 6th level or so, since the Will save is so low, and you won't be fighting plants, animals, or vermin at high levels all that often. (And, of course, you can always just cast a spell on it or buff your critter instead.) And if it does have an effect on you, it basically prohibits you from contributing.

Pick something from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) instead. Shaky if you're not going with spear throwing, Pathetic (Charisma) if you are.



Reserve Feat - mite b cool

Fel Weaken/Enervate Spell - Which one of these, if either, should I take? Or should I not bother and save the slot for something else?

Druids are better off either summoning and buffing, or buffing and wildshaping (or both), than blasting. Having a few blasty spells in reserve is nice, but it isn't something you should focus on. (Blasting well generally requires metamagic reducers, which you don't have.)


Extend Spell - Useful for prolonging buffs and such.
Ocular Spell - Would be nice if there was a breath version of this.
Persistent Spell - hooo boy the markup on this is just crazy. Still, I've seen it referred to an awful lot.

Extend is good, but you're better off with a rod of it, IMO. The other two are great, if you can reduce the cost, but you really need either turn undead or to be an arcane caster to do that.

[Nightgaun7]

First off, as has been said, you don't need natural bond unless you're multiclassing into something that doesn't advance animal companion. There isn't really any disagreement about that fact. If you don't know if you're going to multiclass/prestige class (which, as a druid, you shouldn't), take something else now and retrain to get it once you do multiclass.


Are you saying it's un-needed, or not beneficial unless I go into something that doesn't advance my animal companion? There seemed to be a bit of disagreement over what exactly it was good for earlier.

Love of Nature is from Dragon Magazine. I just picked it because it was characterful. And it would seem like buffing my animal companion and letting him attack it or casting a spell on it would be a breach of the flaw.

Will have to talk to the GM about that one I guess.

[Jeff the Green]

It's like Practiced Caster. Basically it adds 3 to your effective druid level, but it can never cause your EDL go above your character level. And if you've only taken druid levels, your EDL = your character level.

Regarding Love of Nature, it refers to "attacking," which has a specific meaning in D&D. Instructing your animal companion to attack something doesn't count as you attacking it. I didn't realize it was from Dragon, but their stuff is about as consistently unbalanced as homebrew; I still strongly urge against using it.

[eggs]

It's like Practiced Caster. Basically it adds 3 to your effective druid level, but it can never cause your EDL go above your character level. And if you've only taken druid levels, your EDL = your character level.
I don't want to turn this into an argument because I couldn't care less about asserting correctness one way or another, and I tend to go with the more conservative ruling anyway, but the ambiguity comes from Natural Bond's "Add three to your effective druid level for the purpose of determining the bonus Hit Dice, extra tricks, special abilities, and other bonuses that your animal companion receives" combined with the druid class's "applying the indicated adjustment to the druid’s level (in parentheses) for purposes of determining the companion’s characteristics and special abilities."

So a Druid could have an effective -6 penalty on hit dice, skill tricks, et al. for a Dire Wolf, and take Natural Bond at level 9. Under the more liberal interpretation, this would raise the Druid's effective level for hit dice, skill tricks, etc. to Druid level -3. This is still lower than the Druid's character level, so Natural Bond's cap isn't necessarily flagged.

[Nightgaun7]

It's like Practiced Caster. Basically it adds 3 to your effective druid level, but it can never cause your EDL go above your character level. And if you've only taken druid levels, your EDL = your character level.


OK, sorry if I'm not aware of an official ruling here, but, in reading the PHB and Complete Adventurer, it would seem that what i said in



To use the example from the PHB, if I select a leopard from the alternative list, the leopard would gain abilities as if I were a level 3 druid, instead of level 6. Natural Bond would seem to me to make that leopard count as a level 6 leopard instead of a level 3 leopard, which means better HD, natural armor, STR/Dex bonus, tricks, and special abilities. To use the leopard again...

Druid level Leopard Leopard w/ Natural Bond
Bonus HD 2 4
Natural Armor Adj. 2 4
STR/DEX Adj 1 2
Bonus Tricks 2 3
Special Link, share spells, evasion As base leopard, plus Devotion

It would also mean earlier access to more powerful animals in general.


is the case.

The text in the Player's Handbook says


A druid of 4th level or higher may select from alternative lists of animals. Should she select an animal companion from one of these alternative lists, the creature gains abilities as if the character’s druid level were lower than it actually is. Subtract the value indicated in the appropriate list header from the character’s druid level and compare the result with the druid level entry on the table to determine the animal companion’s powers. (If this adjustment would reduce the druid’s effective level to 0 or lower, she can’t have that animal as a companion.)


And Complete Adventurer says



Add three to your effective druid level for the purpose of determining the bonus Hit Dice, extra tricks, special abilities, and other bonuses that your animal companion receives (see page 36 of the Player's Handbook). This bonus can never make your effective druid level exceed your character level.


To begin with, my effective druid level is 6. Taking the leopard puts it down at 3. Taking natural bond brings me back up to 6. If I took some pet that put me down to 4, then Natural bond would only bring me back up to 6, not push it up to 7.




Regarding Love of Nature, it refers to "attacking," which has a specific meaning in D&D. Instructing your animal companion to attack something doesn't count as you attacking it. I didn't realize it was from Dragon, but their stuff is about as consistently unbalanced as homebrew; I still strongly urge against using it.

I see. Well, I wouldn't be telling my animal to attack it either, that would just be lame. But I guess some people would lol

[Nightgaun7]

Well Natural Bond has been settled by my GM telling me his interpretation, so there's now no point to me taking it. Another feat slot open!