No save debuffs?

[Tvtyrant]

Does anyone have a list of saveless debuffs, or debuffs that still do something on a failed save? Enervation and Stun Ray are the kinds of spells I am looking for.

[Amidus Drexel]

Most fear-related spells have a partial effect.

Web isn't a ray, but it's pretty nasty, even on a passed save.

Edit: Ray of Enfeeblement, Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion, Ray of Exhaustion (partial)

[LTwerewolf]

Would something like flesh to salt fit your criteria?

Also: ray of exhaustion.

[Tvtyrant]

Flesh to Salt only does damage if you don't fail the save, so it's not really what I am looking for. I am hoping for debuffs/status conditions no matter what.

[LTwerewolf]

Entangle still slows movement speed.
Cloudburst no save.
Path of frost causes issues with movement even on a save.
Blinding spittle no save.
Kelpstrand no save.
Sleet storm obscures vision even on a save.
Solid fog no save
Word of balance no save.
Holy word no save on a lot of effects.
Frostfell fort partial.

Need some more?

[lsfreak]

The best place to look is probably to just go through the spell sections of Logic Ninja's Batman guide and Treantmonk's God Wizard guide. I believe most of them will say in their descriptions whether they are no-save debuffs, since they tend to be so good.

I'll throw in black tentacles, entangle, choking cobwebs, and avascular mass for dual-threat AoE ones. Ray of Stupidity will one-shot an animal. Blackfire offers saves, but it's potentially so nasty it's probably worth mentioning (needs 3 successful saves to extinguish). Fleshshiver is a single-target dual threat. Defenestrating Sphere has a Fort negates for the debuff part, but you can keep trying. Solid fog and freezing fog.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Curse of Impending Blades and the Mass version (it's only like 1-2 levels higher, much mroe worth it than the singular version) have no save.

Persistent Dagger gives all allies flanking and has no save. Whether you consider that a buff or debuff is debateable I guess, but since it involves a force dagger trying to stab someone in the face and being subject to SR, I'd call it a debuff.

Blinding Spittle blinds w/ no save if you hit with a ranged touch (at -4 penalty). Just takes water to wash out, but many monsters won't have that option.

All from SpC.

[Tvtyrant]

The more I can get (especially off the Wizard/Sorc list) the better. I am saving them onto my computer. :smallredface:

[LTwerewolf]

I think what you're really looking for is this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002)

[A_S]

-Glitterdust (revealed and -40 to hide checks on passed save)
-Irresistable Dance (mind-affecting, but no-save-just-lose without immunity)
-Geas (10 min casting time)
-Waves of Exhaustion
-Maze (removed from fight, kind of a debuff)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion
Ray of Enfeeblement/Exhaustion
Ray of Light
Ray of Dizziness
Solid/Freezing Fog
Bands of Steel (especially versus winged opponents)
Kelpstrand
Wall of Thorns
Entangling Exhalation feat

[juicycaboose]

Touch of Idiocy level 2 wiz/sorc spell, 1d6 int/cha/wis damage, no save

[Kelb_Panthera]

While I have no specific spells, I can give you a tip to make searching easier.

Generally, spells that have no save will either require an attack roll, allow spell resistance, both, or have an unusual targeting criteria to meet. Spells that debuff with no chance to avoid will typically be 7th level +, if they exist at all.

The same holds for spells that have partial effect regardless of saves.

[NeedsAnswersNao]

PlzBreakMyCampaign was kicked out for idk what but here you go (http://blacktowerclan.com/forums/index.php?topic=216.0).

[Psyren]

Handbook-dive, there's way too many to just compile into one thread.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Also, with sufficient stat-stacking to boost your DC's, as well as other methods of boosting your DC, you can pretty much set up a situation in which every 'save or' spell becomes 'debuff' 95% of the time. Red Wizard is the easiest way to do it, but by no means the only one.

[Venger]

ray of stupidity, ray of clumsiness, and channeled lifetheft are all excellent debuffs.

[Slipperychicken]

ray of stupidity

With a minimum of 2 Int damage and No Save, that one functions as a No Save Just Lose for animals and other non-sentient creatures. If the DM thought he was going to challenge you with a Hydra, T-Rex, Dire Bear, or other Int 2, now it's comatose.

[Venger]

With a minimum of 2 Int damage and No Save, that one functions as a No Save Just Lose for animals and other non-sentient creatures. If the DM thought he was going to challenge you with a Hydra, T-Rex, Dire Bear, or other Int 2, now it's comatose.

well.. yeah. that's part of the game. it's on some people's ban list with shivering touch, but honestly, it's not especially disruptive in games unless your dm just throws elephants and stuff at you all the time.

[docnessuno]

No love for Rebuke, final? Despite the [mind-affecting] tag it's one of my favorite spells.
Save or die with 1 round of stun on a successful save.

[SethFahad]

Shivering touch anyone? No save, no SR, touch attack, 3d6 Dex damage. BAM!

[Doxkid]

Sickening Grasp, the feat. Automatically sickens the target for a round. If the target doesn't make their save, they are sickened for 1 round per spell level of your highest necromancy spell.

[Darrin]

I think what you're really looking for is this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002)

Actually, what you're looking for is probably Shneekey's "UPS Man ("http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208620)" build, which specializes in no-save debuffs.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Actually, what you're looking for is probably Shneekey's "http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208620UPS Man" build, which specializes in no-save debuffs.

Actually, he specialized in no dice effects. At his height, the player never needs to roll any dice, except as a saving throw against outside effects.

However, the problem with the build is throwing enough stackable effects to make it worth it. One negative level isn't too bad. Getting hit with a dozen, however, is. However, Fell Drain only stacks on one at a time. So you'd have to do stuff like Spell Matricies and such to get enough out there to be relevant.

Something like Kelgore's Grave Mist + Fell Drain is a lot of fun for no-save, no-sr negative levels, although it won't affect undead. Well, actually, the negative energy damage will actually *heal* it, but if you're using Dread Necro as the chassis, then that's a feature rather than a bug.

[Person_Man]

As a side note, I would say that you don't want to make a habit of using anything without a failure condition on a regular basis. If you don't fail roughly 20-30%ish of the time, your DM will notice, and will start using workarounds for important/boss battles (immunities, more enemies, Spell Resistance, etc). And since boss battles are the ones that you truly need to optimize for, you want to save your best stuff just for them.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

As a side note, I would say that you don't want to make a habit of using anything without a failure condition on a regular basis. If you don't fail roughly 20-30%ish of the time, your DM will notice, and will start using workarounds for important/boss battles (immunities, more enemies, Spell Resistance, etc). And since boss battles are the ones that you truly need to optimize for, you want to save your best stuff just for them.

Well, that is one strength of the Mailman build... immunities and spell resistance don't work. Even if you are immune to damage, you're still not immune to damage. Also in using Dread Witch and using fear-stacking to lock down encounters.

If he pulls the immunity card, you pull the 'ignore immunity' card.

Of course, this is an arms race the PC cannot win, because it will eventually end in Maximized Summon DMG IX and a Rocks Fall scenario. But I suppose if its a one-off campaign you really don't care about playing in anymore, it's lulzworthy. Good for dealing with Gary Stu self-insert DMPC's anyways