How to create the worst possible undead apocalypse

[Hirax]

Let's assume wizard5/incantatrix10/Halruaan elder 5, with arcane thesis (apocalypse from the sky). With a radius of 20 miles/level when widened, and the ability to fell drain and empower it for free, you're looking at one heck of a wightocalypse. But wights are weak! I want to know what things can be done to:

-Increase the amount of negative levels the victims receive, as only 1HD creatures become wights in this scenario (well, until the wights start eating things). It's not so much about increasing the number of undead, but reducing the number of survivors that could potentially band together.
-Upgrade the undead that are created to something other than wights, but preferably that are still intelligent.
-Increase the potency of the undead created - apocalypse from the sky isn't a necromancy spell, remember, so for instance corpsecrafter won't work because it requires the undead be created by a necromancy spell.

One of Halruaan elder's metamagic reducers is being used for widen, obviously, but what's another metamagic feat worth using the other reducer on? Maximize isn't really necessary, and sadly fell animate has the limit of double your CL. I'm not too devoted to Halruaan elder, but the circle magic for caster level boosting to get a high enough caster level to potentially affect thousands of miles (at least a 2,000 mile radius with minimal shenanigans) is quite appealing, needless to say.

[Doxkid]

Twin spell, so it takes effect twice. +3 meta magic
Repeat spell so it takes effect twice. +3 meta magic
Apply both and the spell will take effect 4 times in total. 4 negative levels.

I can't offer much for your other problems because the area is so large.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Actually, I think it can only apply once for DOT spells. I was quite sure earlier, but there don't seem to be many arguments that come to a final agreement on it...




A little like this. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9892.0)

Click the link at the bottom of the quoted post for a method of creating a 40 mile diameter wightocalypse dead-zone.

[Doxkid]

The problems with that are:
You are still only dumping 1 negative level
The Wights you make are still bog standard Wights.

So the only way that is useful is extending the radius.
---
Since Twin/Repeat spell can get 4 negative levels per casting, make sure you are applying the Wight template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/wight.shtml) instead of just making SRD Wights. That way there will be Wight rats and birds and warriors and all manner of terrible things.

[Malroth]

Corpse crafter feats would apply here

[ericgrau]

Warning, liberal reading coming: chicken infested commoner + spell component pouch for near infinite chickens. Fell animate apocalypse from the sky for near infinite zombie chickens. There's a point where even those using hide from undead will have trouble moving through overcrowded areas without bumping into something and ending the spell. The rare survivors are those who both survive the initial spell damage (~70 or ~105) and have some kind of DR to survive the chicken pecks, like a barbarian. Those that fly might survive too if they get outdoors in time, though note that many of those are squishy enough to have trouble against the initial damage.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The problems with that are:
You are still only dumping 1 negative level
The Wights you make are still bog standard Wights.

So the only way that is useful is extending the radius.
---
Since Twin/Repeat spell can get 4 negative levels per casting, make sure you are applying the Wight template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/wight.shtml) instead of just making SRD Wights. That way there will be Wight rats and birds and warriors and all manner of terrible things.

There's an argument to be made that it's 1 negative level per round, in which case, there's nothing left alive in that 40 mile radius area at the end of a couple of minutes, much less the full 2 year duration.

[Doxkid]

Corpse crafter feats would apply here

I must be missing something. How did you convert the spell to a necromancy? You know...since Corpse Crafter only applies to Necromancy spells and all, much like the OP said.

Dread necromancer Undead Mastery would apply outright, as would any Desecrate bonuses but Corpse Crafter wouldn't as far as I can see.


Warning...
Zombies are a much less threatening type of undead than Wights since Wights can Drain levels until they kill something (which would then add the Wight template to the dead creature.)

Increasing the low level population of the area so more Wights are created outright kind of helps though.


There's an argument to be made that it's 1 negative level per round, in which case, there's nothing left alive in that 40 mile radius area at the end of a couple of minutes, much less the full 2 year duration.

I know, but there aren't many people that can agree about it one way or the other. And then there is the whole "order of Effect" thing; is the normal damage applied first, or is the Level Drain applied first? Or is it just on a case-by-case basis for whatever would be most beneficial to the caster (how I usually rule these things).

A level 1 commoner who was injured might get killed outright by the damage of the spell, stopping him from becoming a Wight. Alternately, a level 2 commoner who takes the level drain first could then have hp too low to survive the damage.

[urandom]

There's always the capture lots of commoners and set them in front of a bodak. If an organized group or person did this they could make a lot of bodaks across a large area and let thousands of bodaks loose in cities.

[ericgrau]

I would have gone for wight chickens or ghoul chickens but sadly both require humanoids. The idea behind the zombies was to overwhelm by sheer numbers to stack enough damage and withstand enough attacks to take down most foes. Except those with DR 1 :smalltongue:.

[Hirax]

Click the link at the bottom of the quoted post for a method of creating a 40 mile diameter wightocalypse dead-zone.

That is intriguing, though I'm not a believer in maximize affecting durations (because a duration isn't an effect), so that'd only last an average of 52 weeks if extended. Only. :smallbiggrin:

[dextercorvia]

I'm afraid that only creatures with 1 HD and hp> damage dealt by AftS will become wights.

Fell drain only applies once damage has been dealt, and I'm guessing that most of your 1HD creatures will be dead by then.

[Hirax]

I'm afraid that only creatures with 1 HD and hp> damage dealt by AftS will become wights.

Fell drain only applies once damage has been dealt, and I'm guessing that most of your 1HD creatures will be dead by then.

How do you figure? The use of the word also in fell drain doesn't lead me to believe one occurs before the other.

[dextercorvia]

How do you figure? The use of the word also in fell drain doesn't lead me to believe one occurs before the other.

You also add it to a creature that 'is dealt damage'. That is past tense. That damage is dealt, now apply a negative level also.

[Andezzar]

How about just releasing a wraith (not a wight) in a decent group of commoners. After a couple of rounds you will have as many wraiths as you had commoners.

Repeat until satisfied.

BTW "is dealt" is not pat tense it is present tense but passive voice. "Was dealt" would be past tense.

[Hirax]

I'm not convinced that implies an order of operations that's distinct enough to warrant treating them as separate attacks. :smallconfused: This is why I wouldn't bother with repeat, for instance, because they would already be dead.

[dextercorvia]

How about just releasing a wraith (not a wight) in a decent group of commoners. After a couple of rounds you will have as many wraiths as you had commoners.

Repeat until satisfied.

BTW "is dealt" is not pat tense it is present tense but passive voice. "Was dealt" would be past tense.

Maybe there isn't as much difference as I thought.

[Kelb_Panthera]

That is intriguing, though I'm not a believer in maximize affecting durations (because a duration isn't an effect), so that'd only last an average of 52 weeks if extended. Only. :smallbiggrin:

Does it really matter if it only lasts a year? You're still killing everything in there in minutes.

Hell, even if the negative level only triggers on the first round, any survivors now have the wights that were once thier friends and neighbors hunting them in a year-long winter that's doing 2 damage/round. Even if someone miraculously survives, the year-long winter has killed off all of the vegetation in the area.

Bottom line: When the dust settles, that 40mile patch of earth is nothing but a barren, grey wasteland crawling with wights. Even the buildings have been reduced to dust by the negative energy.

[TuggyNE]

Bottom line: When the dust settles, that 40mile patch of earth is nothing but a barren, grey wasteland crawling with wights.

I don't think you'd even have wights left, unless they're getting temporary hit points from negative levels each round: they're not immune to the damage, are they?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I don't think you'd even have wights left, unless they're getting temporary hit points from negative levels each round: they're not immune to the damage, are they?

The damages is one point cold and one point negative energy each round. They cancel out. Though they may leave the wights a bit agitated. Kinda like ill-tempered dogs that you just keep poking.

Edit: oops, misread. The damage is 8 each of cold and negative energy. Still cancels out though.

[TuggyNE]

The damages is one point cold and one point negative energy each round. They cancel out. Though they may leave the wights a bit agitated. Kinda like ill-tempered dogs that you just keep poking.

Edit: oops, misread. The damage is 8 each of cold and negative energy. Still cancels out though.

Ahh, fair enough.

And yes, they'd definitely get a little annoyed by the constant buzz of cold and healing. (I smell plot hook!)

[rweird]

Apply non-lethal substitution to the previously mentioned AftS combos, there, just knocked out and four negative levels, if you die from it, you arise as a wight in 24 hours. 24 hours later, cast it again and the non-lethal damage won't harm the wights, though everyone with less than 260 health will be unconscious and they can poke the unconscious people until they turn to wights. :smallbiggrin:

[Fouredged Sword]

Isn't there a feat that causes your undead to be immune to cold damage or something? That would help increase the danger of the low level wights becuse they would be healing 8 hp per round, and that makes it much harder to kill a swarm of them.

Also talk your DM into allowing you to have wight mobs, as in the mob template applied to a group of wights. You will have enough of them to make a mob to be sure, and it would make them much tougher and more dangerous.