-New DMs-

[Bulix]

Ok,

I'm in a new group and when I say new, I mean they don't know anything besides the basic rules. One of them has really good potential to be a DM, but they don't have much experience with the game.

For example: Another guy in the group was DM and he made it so a wizard had cast a spell on us, giving us 5 days to live unless we find a magical spellbook inside the caves of eternal darkness. Not bad, right? But since I knew all the rules like Defensive fighting and Weapon and Armor Proficiencies he started making up rules. So, how do I give these guys all of the information I have right now about the game, ASAP?

Thank you :smallsmile:

[Tyndmyr]

Well, you need to convince them to read the rules.

So, figure out what they want. Is it story-time? Is it sweet, delicious power? Is it a pile of gold coins?

Occasionally get rules "wrong" that you're pretty confident one of them will correct you on(and have the rulebook nearby to "verify" it quickly), in such a way that they gain an advantage towards what they want by knowing the rules.

If BSing everything will get players what they want...they'll BS a lot. If knowing the rules works...same, same.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

You could offer to be the DM's rules assistant. Frame it like this: "DMing can be hard, so do you want to split some of the responsabilities? I'll be in charge of keeping the rules straight so you can focus on the world, the story and all that." With any luck, the DM will agree gratefully and the group will have a chance to pick the rules up from you over time as you play together.

[Yora]

That sounds good. The DM can run the plot and NPCs and play the monsters in battle, but you take over the part of being the referee for the combats for some time.

[laeZ1]

Well, you need to convince them to read the rules.

So, figure out what they want. Is it story-time? Is it sweet, delicious power? Is it a pile of gold coins?

Occasionally get rules "wrong" that you're pretty confident one of them will correct you on(and have the rulebook nearby to "verify" it quickly), in such a way that they gain an advantage towards what they want by knowing the rules.

If BSing everything will get players what they want...they'll BS a lot. If knowing the rules works...same, same.

This exactly.



You could offer to be the DM's rules assistant. Frame it like this: "DMing can be hard, so do you want to split some of the responsabilities? I'll be in charge of keeping the rules straight so you can focus on the world, the story and all that." With any luck, the DM will agree gratefully and the group will have a chance to pick the rules up from you over time as you play together.
If this has worked for you in the past, I say good for you, but I've seen this fail time and time again. I think the only way for this to work is for the "rule assistant" to not be a player, and not care enough about the game to want to have input on the plot while not being in the game.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

If this has worked for you in the past, I say good for you, but I've seen this fail time and time again. I think the only way for this to work is for the "rule assistant" to not be a player, and not care enough about the game to want to have input on the plot while not being in the game.How have you seen it fail? I'm not talking about trying to take any control of the creative side of the game, just offering to be the go-to guy for any "how does this work" questions that come up during sessions. As long as the other players can trust you not to play the rules to your advantage (and having rulebooks on hand so you can point out where you're getting what you're saying should help a lot) I'm not sure how having the guy who knows the rules help with the rules would fail as much as you say.

[laeZ1]

How have you seen it fail?
Well, I suppose saying "time and time again" makes it sound like an absurd number of times. I've only seen people try it three times, and each time, it contributed to the game falling apart.

1st time: The player did exactly what you cautioned against and bent the rules to his advantage. Namely, only remembering certain rules when it benefited him. (I was a player in this game)

2nd time: My very first time DMing, I felt the need for a more experienced player being a rules lawyer. I asked one, and he agreed to it. The problems then started when he made a character, and continued to the point where he called himself a co-DM, and ended with the game when he decided he should just take over.

3rd time: In my current game, one of my players would interrupt roleplay and combat when he sees something that he didn't like. Sometimes he would be right and it would contradict a rule, other times he would be wrong and we wasted about ten minutes because he tried looking it up mid-game. (Technically, this game didn't fall appart, but he's not playing in it anymore)
I'm not trying to poke holes here, but I stick with that it's more important for the DM to know what the players are looking for in their D&D experience and lean in that direction, than it is for us to create more rules lawyers out there.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Yeah, but in your examples, it was always some other actiong by the rules helper (bening the rules, trying to take over from the DM, etc.) that caused the problems, not the fact that there was a rules helper in the first place.

To the OP, I guess what it boils down to is that if you want to try my suggestion (which I still would reccomend at least considering) don't try to abuse the position. Help keep the rules straight and the game fun and let that be that.

[Alabenson]

The problem I forsee with having a "rules helper" is occasionally you run into a DM who aggresively refuses to learn the rules of the game, pointing to Rule 0, or rather "I'm the DM so the rules are whatever I say they are", whenever you try to point out that the rules don't work that way. Given that it sounds like Bulix's DM started making up rules in response to Bulix's game knowledge, this may be one of those instances.

[Malak'ai]

When I run games around the table and something comes up about a rule I'm not sure of/haven't had come up before/don't know I make a decision on the fly, just for that instance, and tell the players that I'll read up on the actual rule after the game so it doesn't hold up the game.
This has worked pretty well and the players haven't had any real problems accepting it.

[shadow_archmagi]

I find that when you've got a laptop, it's really easy to zip onto the SRD (or a text-pdf of the Rules Compendium, so you can ctrl-F) and find exactly what you need.

Rules interruption shouldn't take more than a minute or two, which is about what each player's turn takes anyway.