Gestalt and Daring Outlaw feat.

[Bloodgruve]

I'm running a 3.P campaign where the party consists of a Sorcerer, Witch, Favored Soul and a guy that wants to run a Rogue/Swashbuckler/Warblade/Swordsage...

Due to the party composition I am offering him the ability to gestalt any levels that he takes in a Tier 4 or lower with another Tier 5 or lower class. He has asked about gestalt Rogue/Swashbuckler levels. He also asked about Daring Outlaw feat. Should I allow gestalt Rogue/Swashbuckler levels to 'double stack' using the feat or should I just disallow it? By 'double stack' I mean at Rogue/Swashbuckler 10 the added levels would be 20 for SA dice, Dodge and Grace...

TYVM
Blood~

[CowMasterTrojan]

At first glance that does seem like a bad idea. But +5d6 versus +10d6. In a party of casters and a ToB user... I think he would be okay. Understand he has a high damage output versus one target, and you should be fine.

[Coidzor]

Either they're frowned upon/recommended for banning or they're a factor and increase the general power level of the gestalt, though most of the ones they do bump up aren't the ones one is worried about getting out of hand anyway.

[LTwerewolf]

Typically those feats are not included for gestalt because you would be looking at a full BAB progression class with double sneak attack progression, getting minimum 80d6 on just one hand attack. Its definitely not intended for them to double up. Besides, it can be argued that at that point they're not two separate classes.

[kitcik]

I think tier-wise you would be fine - he's a one trick pony. However, it may be more challenging to design encounters at middle levels with so much damage from one source (assuming he builds somewhat optimally).

[Coidzor]

I'd recommend that if you did allow it to have it only serve any actual use if he multiclasses out of rogue or swashbuckler on one side of the gestalt.

[Andreaz]

Drop the stacking. That's a "theurge" feat, meant to bring together classes,and Gestalt does that on its own.

[eggs]

Rogues already have very high damage numbers. Increasing those numbers doesn't help their versatility; it just exaggerates the system's rocket tag and the binary "give it immunity or have it die before its first action" problem in encounter design.

[Bloodgruve]

For one I would not allow progression into epic SA damage. Basically maxing out at 10d6 but he would get multiple attacks. Effectively allowing for a fast SA progression as quickly as Character Level 10. Problem here is that the problem with casters does not start until higher levels and this would be quite front heavy :/

What about allowing Daring Outlaw to 'double stack' but cap progression at character level? Meaning if the gestalt progression was taken to [Rogue/Swashbuckler]10 he could access the level 19 sneak attack dice, dodge and grace only at character level 19. Thus allowing the player to gestalt and multiclass into ToB while maintaining a competitive progression.

Thank you for the input,

Blood~

[LTwerewolf]

There's no reason to allow the daring outlaw feat at all. Like was said before it was a method to combine the classes, but gestalt combines them as is. If you allow it in any form it's just going to be a headache for you.

[Bloodgruve]

There's no reason to allow the daring outlaw feat at all. Like was said before it was a method to combine the classes, but gestalt combines them as is. If you allow it in any form it's just going to be a headache for you.

Point taken.

TY all for the input.

Blood~

[grarrrg]

What about allowing Daring Outlaw to 'double stack' but cap progression at character level? Meaning if the gestalt progression was taken to [Rogue/Swashbuckler]10 he could access the level 19 sneak attack dice, dodge and grace only at character level 19.

If you allow it, I would do this.

[Coidzor]

What about allowing Daring Outlaw to 'double stack' but cap progression at character level? Meaning if the gestalt progression was taken to [Rogue/Swashbuckler]10 he could access the level 19 sneak attack dice, dodge and grace only at character level 19. Thus allowing the player to gestalt and multiclass into ToB while maintaining a competitive progression.

Sounds interesting. I'd give it a whirl, especially if he's the only non-caster in a group that's halfway keyed in to casters.

The least problematic thing though, as said, would be to just not allow most or all of such feats.