D&Dwiki Homebrew Class balance: Myrmidon

[The Random NPC]

I have a friend who would like to play the Myrmidon (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Myrmidon_(3.5e_Class)) class from dandwiki.com. From what I can tell, it seems a bit weak, but I would like the playgrounds opinion. Thanks in advanced.

[TiaC]

It looks like a fighter but with preselected feats. However, they are pretty universally bad feats. It's almost always going to be weaker than a fighter, I'd go so far as to say it's only slightly better than CW samurai.

[Lateral]

It looks like a fighter but with preselected feats. However, they are pretty universally bad feats. It's almost always going to be weaker than a fighter, I'd go so far as to say it's only slightly better than CW samurai.
Worse, I'd say. At least CW samurai are okay at intimidation.

[TiaC]

Worse, I'd say. At least CW samurai are okay at intimidation.

I think the lack of a code balances things out, also this is a better dip.

[Answerer]

I could see taking 1 level of it; Exotic Weapon Proficiency has some decent uses, and Wis-to-AC-even-with-Medium-Armor is pretty awesome.

I can't see any good reason to ever take another level.

[Alabenson]

It's 4th level ability (Wis or Int to damage), along with Wis-to-AC in light or medium armor, might make it decent as a 4-level dip for certain builds, but that's as far as I'd take it. For the most part I'd say this would be very low tier-5 (4 skill points per level and a modicum of Int-synergy are enough to put it above CW Samurai, but for the most part it's a very weak melee class).

[eggs]

Single-classed it's terrible, even with the weird number-bump at level 4.

Building toward a PrC like Ur-Priest, Chameleon or Warmind that's essentially a whole class on its own, it could be decent.

For the most part, expect it to just be a Moon-Warded Ranger that trades its versatility and unique tricks for slightly higher base numbers in its attack, damage and AC.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Seems like a decent 4 level dip for swordsages, bumping attack bonus, giving wis or int to attack and damage (and swordsages will usually have decent Wis and Int) in addition to Str or dex (for finesse fighters) this way this swordsage can get up to 4 stats to damage and 2 to attack (with minimal investment too).
Besides by strict RAW I think they would get double wis to AC (since they are untyped bonus and have different names)

[The Random NPC]

So it seems the consensus is that the first 4 levels are decent, but as a 20 level class its pretty weak. Thanks I'll let him know.

[Answerer]

I'd missed the fourth level thing; that's pretty solid.

Myrmidon 4/Swordsage X seems like a pretty good build, then.

[docnessuno]

I disagree, the 4 level dip is VERY strong (as strong as it can get for a non-caster):
Wis to AC in medium armor
Exotic weapon proficiency
+2 Will
Int or Wis to HIT and DAMAGE

The wis sinergy is amazing, and many of those abilities cannot be found anywhere else in the game.

[The Random NPC]

As strong as all that is, the only real abilities that are different from a fighter, is Wis to AC in effectively all armor, and Int or Wis to hit and damage. Exotic Weapon Proficiency can be replicated by 1st level fighter, and although the fighter would have to get it at 3rd rather than 2nd, so could the +2 Will. Die Hard, although nice, isn't something to write home about. Having a high AC doesn't really help, unless you have ways to make it relevant, aka Dwarven Defender Syndrome. The only real way this class does that is by doing bonus damage via Int/Wis to Hit and Damage. A 20 Myrmidon would most likely what a good Con for HP, a decent Str for feat prerequisites, and most likely a good Wis for the class features. That would mean the player would be focusing on 3 stats, and therefor a bit MAD. Now, as you add multiclassing into the mix, the class may become more or less broken, but as a class in itself, I think it leans to the weak side, by virtue of getting very negligible increases in damage, and encouraging the player to take the Weapon Focus line. Due to the way the capstone ability works, it seems to effectively increase the death threshold to about -20, which while nice, isn't as good as the Frenzied Berserker's or the Knight's version.
So, unless you were referring specifically to the Myrmidon 4/Swordsage X build, the class over 20 levels averages to Okay/Weak.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I would try to fit this into a soulbow build if it weren't dandwiki...

[HunterOfJello]

As mentioned above, this is a decent 1 or 4 level dip class. This could go well in a build like Myrmidion 4/Ardent X or some other setup that gains benefits from starting up a bit later than usual. This would be a great start up for an Ur-Priest too.

After level 4 it adds nothing special mechanically to the class. It is worth noting that this would be the 2nd class in the game that has both good Fort and Reflex saves along with Full BAB. The only other class with that in the Ranger (at least as far as i recall).


This could be a very cool retooling of a Psychic Warrior type class if powers were added, but I don't think that's what the creator was gunning for.

[Golden Ladybug]

Wow, Strict Discipline is really, really bad. I mean, the weapon focus line isn't very good to start with, but because of the wording of the ability, you can't qualify for this class feature at all.


Strict Discipline (Ex): Due to the devotion to the mastery of a weapon, a myrmidon gains a more thorough understanding of his preferred weapon. He gains Greater Weapon Focus or Greater Weapon Specialization to the weapon of his choice. He must however fulfill the prerequisites for those feats.


Fighter level 8 and 12 are prerequisites for GWF/GWS, and they get this ability at level 13. Poor, poor Myrmidons...

But yeah, echoing the sentiment that these guys are fairly weak as a whole (although levels 1-4 and 20 are pretty cool), and pretty good for dipping. I'd peg them at low tier 5, because of their Wis synergy and cool capstone is really nifty.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Wow, Strict Discipline is really, really bad. I mean, the weapon focus line isn't very good to start with, but because of the wording of the ability, you can't qualify for this class feature at all.



Fighter level 8 and 12 are prerequisites for GWF/GWS, and they get this ability at level 13. Poor, poor Myrmidons...

But yeah, echoing the sentiment that these guys are fairly weak as a whole (although levels 1-4 and 20 are pretty cool), and pretty good for dipping. I'd peg them at low tier 5, because of their Wis synergy and cool capstone is really nifty.

Under the Weapons and armour proficiency it says levels in Myrmidon count as fighter levels for the purpose of pre-requisites.

[Golden Ladybug]

Well, ain't that nice of them :smalltongue:

Suppose that's what I get for not reading homebrew very thoroughly

[Dusk Eclipse]

I found it very weird that they stated that in the armour/weapon proficiencies, common sense dictates for it to be a separate class feature, like the Warblade's one.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, ain't that nice of them :smalltongue:

Suppose that's what I get for not reading homebrew very thoroughly

So...why include the prereq phrase at all, if it's automatically acheived in all cases?

This is one of the reasons I hate homebrew from that site...

[Alabenson]

So...why include the prereq phrase at all, if it's automatically acheived in all cases?

This is one of the reasons I hate homebrew from that site...

Presumably the prereq phrase refers to the feat requirements for those feats, not the fighter level requirements.

Frankly, I think this person made the same mistake WOTC made throughout most of 3.x, which was they were too afraid of making a melee class that would outshine the Fighter.

[Anxe]

If you just slap the Fighter's bonus feats on as well it becomes a bit like PF fighter, doesn't it?