Can loss vs. hp loss

[urikson]

Last session we had a small argument regarding the order in which damage is inflicted. A PC with 24 hp has taken 17 points of damage and 4 Constitution damage. Now, some held that this blow reduced his total hit points by 10 (he's fifth level) which made the 17 points of damage incapacitating. Others held that the hp reduction loss should be subtracted from the hit points damage, thus leaving the fellow on his feet.

What is your learned opinion?

[Cespenar]

HP with full Con: 24/24

HP with Con damage: 14/14

Final result: -3/14

No other way around it.

[ahenobarbi]

Also possible:

Initial HP: 24/24

HP with HP damage: 7/24

Final result: -3/14

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Oder doesn't matter - HP from Con score is not temporary HP and is not lost first.

[Diarmuid]

My group takes the HP dmg into account and then accounts for the Com dmg by adjusting your max HP accordingly.

Rereading the con listing and how it words the score changing, I'm no longer see we're doing it right.

[Andorax]

The easiest way to keep this straight is to think that you're not "losing" hit points, you're "gaining" damage.

Your hit point total is a comparison point...a "DC" of incapacitation if you will. Initially, a DC 24 to "start you bleeding out".

You compare your damage total to the hit point total. The character had 17 damage...so far, so good...17 < 24, so you're still up and active.

But the character also took 4 Con damage...this changes the hit point total...in essense, "lowering the DC" to put the character under. 17 > 14.


The same principle works with non-lethal damage, only it's "damage + nonlethal damage" compared to the hit point total.




As an (unusual) aside: Con damage can never reduce your hit point total below 1 hp per HD....so if you somehow manage to get your 5th level Wizard poisoned down to 1 Con, you'll still have 5 total hp.

0 Con, though, kills ya regardless of hps.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Like the others said, your man has lost 27 total hp.

The con damage is seperate from the hp damage. Losing 4 con at level 5 costs you 10 points each from your current and maximum hp. If it was delivered by something that also deals 17 normal damage, you take 27 total hp damage and your maximum hp are reduced by 10.

That's all there is to it.

[Douglas]

Order of application doesn't matter, hp loss from constitution damage applies to both maximum and current hp.

[Zombimode]

Last session we had a small argument regarding the order in which damage is inflicted. A PC with 24 hp has taken 17 points of damage and 4 Constitution damage. Now, some held that this blow reduced his total hit points by 10 (he's fifth level) which made the 17 points of damage incapacitating. Others held that the hp reduction loss should be subtracted from the hit points damage, thus leaving the fellow on his feet.

What is your learned opinion?

You don't loose HP when your con is damaged. Your hit point total just changes (for the worse). The 17 points of damage are still marked at you.

[TuggyNE]

Order of application doesn't matter, hp loss from constitution damage applies to both maximum and current hp.

This is probably the shortest correct explanation. :smallsmile:


The easiest way to keep this straight is to think that you're not "losing" hit points, you're "gaining" damage.

Your hit point total is a comparison point...a "DC" of incapacitation if you will. Initially, a DC 24 to "start you bleeding out".

You compare your damage total to the hit point total. The character had 17 damage...so far, so good...17 < 24, so you're still up and active.

But the character also took 4 Con damage...this changes the hit point total...in essense, "lowering the DC" to put the character under. 17 > 14.


The same principle works with non-lethal damage, only it's "damage + nonlethal damage" compared to the hit point total.

And this is a nice thorough one. :smallcool:

[NeedsAnswersNao]

I've never lost my cans in a d&d game. Great to put dice in. Very important.

[urikson]

I see that is there is consensus on the fact that the poor fellow is at negative hp at this point. A tragic end for a fine hero of the Vistani persuasion, but what can you do?

Many thanks to everyone who commented :)

[KillianHawkeye]

I see that is there is consensus on the fact that the poor fellow is at negative hp at this point. A tragic end for a fine hero of the Vistani persuasion, but what can you do?

Well, you can try stabilizing him before he bleeds to death. A little healing will have him back on his feet in no time! There's no need to start planning a funerary service quite yet.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well, you can try stabilizing him before he bleeds to death. A little healing will have him back on his feet in no time! There's no need to start planning a funerary service quite yet.

Righto! Even just a bit of uncanny luck could still save him, unless the enemy comes back to finish him off after rest of the party is dropped or forced to flee without him.

[Khedrac]

If your party is up to the bookkeeping you can keep track of each die rolled for hit points and adjust accordingly, thus some die will "bottom out" at 1 before others. Note I know no-one who does this, but then we usually use "average round up" for hit points/level.

Also if your opponents are greedy they may stabilise a defeated PC to ransom back/sell into slavery/torture for location of their treasure/throw in gaol so negative health on a lost battle does not necessarily = dead.

Re the health tracking - the PHB actually says for non-lethal damage that pass unconsious when your total non-lethal damage is greater than your remaining health. Tracking damage the same way is much easier than deducting it from your remaining health because of things like Con loss and Negative Levels.