shapechange as master transmogrifist?

[Venger]

the book mentions you casting shapechange, but the class makes you lose 4 caster levels. do you guys know of a way to get shapechange? (9ths in general would be fine too) entering the class early won't really help all that much, so that's out.

[kardar233]

Kobold cheese is pretty much the only way to recoup lost caster levels. You could do a Sublime Chord entry, but I don't know how well that would work. You might not hit 9ths before 20 there anyway, and you're definitely not getting MT's capstone.

[Hirax]

There are no good ways, short of going beyond level 20, but frankly, that's probably for the best. Shapechange is already simple to get to last all day without persistent spell, and allowing someone to poach an additional ability from one creature while in the form of another would be stupidly powerful. Being a chronotyryn and taking a choker's extra standard action ability comes to mind. Or even just being a chronotyryn and being able to grab regeneration (sonic), magic immunity, and pretty whatever you want, and changing that as needed every round as a free action.

[Venger]

Kobold cheese is pretty much the only way to recoup lost caster levels. You could do a Sublime Chord entry, but I don't know how well that would work. You might not hit 9ths before 20 there anyway, and you're definitely not getting MT's capstone.

now that you mention it, sublime chord actually works perfectly, and it's quite possible to get MT's capstone:

bard 6/mindbender1/sublime chord 1/MT 10/fullcasting arcane prc 2/

1 9th level spell known from the bard or wizard list, so shapechange. any suggestions for what to fill out those last two levels with?

[Hirax]

now that you mention it, sublime chord actually works perfectly, and it's quite possible to get MT's capstone:

bard 6/mindbender1/sublime chord 1/MT 10/fullcasting arcane prc 2/

1 9th level spell known from the bard or wizard list, so shapechange. any suggestions for what to fill out those last two levels with?

How are you qualifying for sublime chord that early?

[Venger]

How are you qualifying for sublime chord that early?

oh, those are 13s. never mind then. I thought it was 10s across the board and able learner would be able to take care of it. that's annoying

[Andezzar]

There are no good ways, short of going beyond level 20, but frankly, that's probably for the best.What's wrong with only going to Master Transmogrifist 9 and taking only Full Caster levels for the other 11 levels? You will lose infinite variety, but you will gain 9th level spells.

[Hirax]

The luscious capstone is such an enormous tease is all. Plus, obtaining shapechange obsoletes some of the class features you picked up in those first 9 levels.

[Venger]

What's wrong with only going to Master Transmogrifist 9 and taking only Full Caster levels for the other 11 levels? You will lose infinite variety, but you will gain 9th level spells.
infinite variety is really interesting, and is a unique effect in the game.


The luscious capstone is such an enormous tease is all. Plus, obtaining shapechange obsoletes some of the class features you picked up in those first 9 levels.

well, that's kind of true, but I'll realistically only have 2 shapechanges a day, which isnt all the time, so MT's other class features are still useful when using lesser shapechanging magic.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If there is a bloodline with Shapechange (is there?) you could use Versatile spellcaster.

[TheGeckoKing]

If there is a bloodline with Shapechange (is there?) you could use Versatile spellcaster.

The Aquatic Fey Bloodline feat (Dragon 355) does have Shapechange as its 9th, but scrubs Conjuration (Healing) and (Creation) spell off your spell list and bans you from using them. I guess it's not too much, but still a pain compared to the other bloodline feats.

[Zaq]

It's grade-A godawful TO cheese, but I think that the fast progression from Beholder Mage will let you get 9ths and still get MT's capstone. I think.

Please don't do that.

[Venger]

I am having a little confusion over how the "shapechanger" ability works

so, it allows you to have alter self be permanent when you cast it.

polymorph changes your type.

would the following work:

step 1: polymorph into monster (say, hill giant) your type is now giant
step 2: alter self into another monster of same type under 5HD (forest troll, for example)

you are now a forest troll for as long as you want.

now, to my understanding, you are permanently in forest troll form. even after the original duration of polymorph runs out. is my interpretation of this incorrect? if so, I would appreciate elaboration of why.

[eggs]

The overgenerous use of Versatile Spellcaster + Magical Training (Wizard) for spellbook + Spontaneous Caster 10/Master Transmogrifist 10?

[Mithril Leaf]

The overgenerous use of Versatile Spellcaster + Magical Training (Wizard) for spellbook + Spontaneous Caster 10/Master Transmogrifist 10?

Well, if we want to be overgenerous we could always just use the elven domain generalist cheat for 9th level spells at 1st.