Is Craft Potion worth it?

[silverwolfer]

Don't get me wrong any crafting you do , due to rp is worth it in its own way.

but is craft/brew potion worth it at all taking as a feat, in a mechanical by the numbers way?

[Ravens_cry]

Half price potions are still pretty expensive, but the action economy savings (you don't need someone with the right magic or good UMD to use them) could potentially be worth it if you can get lots of crafting time in.
It really depends on the campaign.

[Runestar]

In theory, you could just take craft wondrous items and make 1-use activated magic items (effectively more versatile potions)...:smallamused:

[Darrin]

but is craft/brew potion worth it at all taking as a feat, in a mechanical by the numbers way?

Not when you can buy the feat.

Gremma's Cauldron (5000 GP, Expedition to Undermountain p. 217).

[Tvtyrant]

The existence of Frostburn's Skull Talismans basically renders potions obsolete. The Talismans can have any level of spell in them, and work exactly like a potion (mechanically, technically you break the skull instead of drinking it). 9th level buffing potion FTW.

[silverwolfer]

The existence of Frostburn's Skull Talismans basically renders potions obsolete. The Talismans can have any level of spell in them, and work exactly like a potion (mechanically, technically you break the skull instead of drinking it). 9th level buffing potion FTW.


do they cost more gold/xp/whatever versus the typical potion ?

[Gavinfoxx]

No, not in the least.

Skull Talismans, Wondrous Items, Inscribed Runes, Imbued Gems, etc. etc. are superior.

The massive limitations on what spells can be put on potions, and the high price, and the difficulty of activating the things makes them useless. The only potion that anyone should get is a single potion of Faith Healing attuned to their deity, which they have in their belt for an ally to give to them if they fall. And even then, an Inscribed Rune of Faith healing in a little breakable box would be superior; that way, an ally could just push your fist through the designed-to-be-broken box and heal you, probably with a swift action or something.

[tyckspoon]

The specific mechanics of how potions work make them a bit iffy, because they're really quite limited. Potion-like items in general, it depends on how your fights tend to go- if you regularly get or force a prep round or surprise round, then they're really awesome, and getting a relevant crafting feat for one is a pretty good investment. They increase the total of magical effects your party can apply, and since Magic Wins D&D, this is a Good Thing. If you don't get that non-combat/advantage round, tho, then you have to compare the action you spend activating that item to an action spent actively participating in the fight, and most of the time activating an item is the worse choice.

[Answerer]

The short answer is no.

The long answer is no, because potions aren't worth using in the first place.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Like most things in D&D they have their place, but in the overall scheme of things, no, not really.

If you're playing in a campaign that you know is going to stay low-level, your DM doesn't do custom items, and you don't have frostburn or OA, then they become fairly usefull. That's kinda specific though.

Edit: they rock socks in an e6 game with a tightwad DM.

[nedz]

The advantages of potions are that anyone can use them, and they are silent.

So if you are playing a rogue type who sneaks around a lot then they have their place. Straight melee types should probably carry a few to give them more options (fly, invisibility, etc.). They are mainly a low level item.

I'm not sure I would take the feat unless I wanted it for RP reasons however.

[Arcanist]

Allow me to paraphrase from Trentmonklvl20's God Wizard guide:


Now repeat after me: Potions suck!

[Darrin]

do they cost more gold/xp/whatever versus the typical potion ?

Yes, a Skull Talisman costs double what a potion would normally cost. Potion = 50 x spell level x caster level, and Skull Talisman = 100 x spell level x caster level.

However, Skull Talisman can do spell levels 1-9, and there are no target/range restrictions.

Then again, you can just create single-use items with Craft Wondrous Item for the same cost as a potion, and enjoy the same benefits of a Skull Talisman: create "pills" that are swallowed or "ceramic tiles" that activate when broken.

[IncoherentEssay]

Maybe worth it if you focus on it: Wizard 5/Alchemist Savant 2/Master Alchemist ->10, maybe taking Alch. Sav. to 4 so you can have splash damage from mixed acid/spellvials*.
Besides pre-requisites, grab the discount feats from Eberron Campaing setting. It doesn't really do much for the character himself, but surely the entire party substituting various spellvials of up to 9th levels spells for their normal weapon attacks is worth something?
Though it will be costly, even with the 50% discount.

Besides that, potions are more of an NPC thing, IMO. Useful if you don't expect to get into fights daily like adventurers do, or otherwise don't need the full bonus 24/7. Giving one guard a belt of str +4 vs. outfitting the entire group with potions to use when needed? Easy call. Any elite troops are more likely to have a potion bandolier to quaff when deplayed instead of hideously expensive permanent gear (having a support caster on staff is preferrable, but the two complement one another instead of competing).
Spellvials are perfectly good for NPCs too: on the cheaper (both meanings) end of things is Acidic Fire/Power Word: Pain. A nasty bit of damage over time for all of 80 gp a pop, and that only needs to land next to you to do it's thing (assuming at most fire or acid resistance, having both nulls it). Beware the kobold grenadiers.

*potions of offensive spells that are used like alchemist fire and the like.

[ericgrau]

Level 1 and 2 potions are great for noncasters who have nothing better to do in the buffing round. At minimum 50 gp is easily worth it for a buff. Try enlarge person, protection from evil, shillelagh, magic weapon and/or bless weapon (for early DR). Later level 2 potions become worth it. Cure spells or invisibility are also good for emergencies; much better than sitting on your thumbs waiting to die and get raised for 5000 gp since it's too dangerous to get close to the enemy. People are extremely stingy about expendables but when you consider how briefly PCs fight and the risks of doing nothing, to avoid 50 gp or later even 300+ gp is ridiculous. Potions are easily worth it.

As for the feat now it's a matter of how much money you'll save. All your allies put together might average a potion a fight for a while and 3-4 fights per level (doing 13 as recommended seems rare). A campaign might span levels 5-13 so about 25 fights and at ~10-13 even level 3 potions aren't too costly. Maybe longer but getting benefits sooner rather than later is also important. So I'd guess around 12,000 gp in potions for the entire party meaning you save 6,000 gp. The 480 xp over the entire campaign is negligible, especially since you get extra xp whenever you're a level behind.

So basically it's pretty meh. You could do better with other crafting and probably with other feats in general. To make it worth it you would need a way to really exploit potions somehow such as a large party full of noncasters who always uses stealth to get lots of buffing rounds. And even then people have pointed out alternatives to actually taking the feat.

[Duke of Urrel]

No, not in the least.

Skull Talismans, Wondrous Items, Inscribed Runes, Imbued Gems, etc. etc. are superior.

The massive limitations on what spells can be put on potions, and the high price, and the difficulty of activating the things makes them useless. The only potion that anyone should get is a single potion of Faith Healing attuned to their deity, which they have in their belt for an ally to give to them if they fall. And even then, an Inscribed Rune of Faith healing in a little breakable box would be superior; that way, an ally could just push your fist through the designed-to-be-broken box and heal you, probably with a swift action or something.

I agree with Gavinfoxx. Under the most recent rules I know, potions have been greatly weakened in comparison to wondrous items, which have had some former potions added to their list. I consider this imbalanced, because both the Brew Potion feat and the Craft Wondrous Item feat are available to 3rd-level spell casters. Why, then, should the Craft Wondrous Item feat be so much better than the Brew Potion feat? Why all this prejudice against potions?

When I have the power to make or break the rules, here's what I do: Every potion-like wondrous item (including all elixirs, Sovereign Glue, Universal Solvent, et cetera) can be created only by a spell caster with at least five ranks in Craft (Alchemy) skill, but the spell caster may create these items with either the Brew Potion feat or the Craft Wondrous Item feat. For example, if you are a 4th-level spell caster who can cast the Charm Person spell and you have five or more ranks in Craft (Alchemy) skill, you can create a Love Potion with either the Brew Potion feat or the Craft Wondrous Item feat. It makes no difference to me which feat you have.

[hex0]

The advantages of potions are that anyone can use them, and they are silent.


Or super silent with the overlooked Delay Potion feat. :smallamused:

[nedz]

Or super silent with the overlooked Delay Potion feat. :smallamused:

Which is so situational I've never encountered anyone who even thought about using it, well until now perhaps :smalltongue:

Still:
Free Silent Spell with every Potion

If that doesn't sell them I don't know what will :smallbiggrin:

[hex0]

Which is so situational I've never encountered anyone who even thought about using it, well until now perhaps :smalltongue:

Still:
Free Silent Spell with every Potion

If that doesn't sell them I don't know what will :smallbiggrin:

Delay Potion is activated as a swift action too. :smallbiggrin: