Adamantrue
2012-09-14, 12:23 PM
I'm planning way ahead here, so I'm not trying to rush this...
With a previous group I DMed, I ran an encounter we referred to as the Flame Brothers. Supposedly twin Kobolds that were powerful Sorcerers, specialized in pyromantic effects and teleportation. In actuality, it was 4 kobold brothers that were much lower level (splashed with some Rogue). They would have two active in the foreground while the others would perform tasks behind the scenes, then use combination of Invisibility, Benign Transposition, and simple Hide & Move Silently to switch out in order to heal, get better position, & reset traps.
The encounter relied heavily on the assumption that it is hard to tell Kobolds apart, especially if they dress & behave similarly. I can't remember what the Spot DC was that finally tipped the PCs off, late in the encounter. It was a pain of an encounter for me to run, but ended up being a real crowd pleaser.
*
I'm DMing a new game soon. Tier-based Gestalt (4&5 or 3&6), starting at 3rd level. I'd like to start planting the seeds of some Dragon encounters, with one using the same concept as the Flame Brothers. These people are a little more rules savvy than that old group, so I wanna make sure I did my homework right (the advantage is that these guys are used to running Pathfinder, so going 3.5 might limit picking apart details I miss).
I want to go another direction with the rumors this time, with the PCs expecting a pushover of a Red Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#redDragon). I want them to expect to face a single Very Young Red Dragon, when in fact they are up against 2 clever Juvenile Red Dragons that also have an extra level or two of spellcasting (not sure if I wanna use a PrC, or just assume Sorcerer levels stack).
The first problem I'm having is hiding a Dragon. I'm not entirely sure Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm) works on a creature of their size & weight (rules confirmation?), and even so, it wouldn't last long enough for my needs. I don't think I can get a Hide check to work.
I'm considering secret passages with hidden openings in their lair, maybe throughout the general region, that give larger bonuses on Hide checks. But there is an issue of how such passages could reasonably have been made. That could create new opportunities, but I'm drawing a blank with the world I created. If pressed, I could include some Redspawn Arcaniss(s) that serve them, to do the grunt work & Item Creation, though it wouldn't be the best fit.
More options would be better than less options. What kinds of spells am I overlooking to pull off this job?
*
The next issue concerns performing the actual "switch" of the two Dragons. During the Flame Brothers encounter, switches were made with a distraction of some sort, and I made secret Spot checks while doing the rolls. Not sure if I can pull off the same tricks here, though. Single Large creature the whole party would be focusing on, probably not going to be able to make Sleight of Hand checks to fake pulling out arrows or the like. Benign Transposition may only be a level 1 spell, but I don't want to burn through spells too quickly.
Ideally, I need to be able to distract the whole party, all at once. Perhaps instead I could use Fog Clouds & its relatives, and use Blindsense & such?
What other ways could let me pull this portion off?
*
The final issue is trying to set the Spot DC to notice that the Dragons are two separate entities. These twin Dragons are going to be hatched from the same egg, and should inherently look very similar. I'd want them to play this up, decorating themselves identically, perhaps even enduring the same injury to maintain the guise (ala The Prestige). But the party has to have a chance of noticing the difference.
I have no idea what would be appropriate here, though. Wish I could remember what I set the Flame Brothers DC at, and why.
With a previous group I DMed, I ran an encounter we referred to as the Flame Brothers. Supposedly twin Kobolds that were powerful Sorcerers, specialized in pyromantic effects and teleportation. In actuality, it was 4 kobold brothers that were much lower level (splashed with some Rogue). They would have two active in the foreground while the others would perform tasks behind the scenes, then use combination of Invisibility, Benign Transposition, and simple Hide & Move Silently to switch out in order to heal, get better position, & reset traps.
The encounter relied heavily on the assumption that it is hard to tell Kobolds apart, especially if they dress & behave similarly. I can't remember what the Spot DC was that finally tipped the PCs off, late in the encounter. It was a pain of an encounter for me to run, but ended up being a real crowd pleaser.
*
I'm DMing a new game soon. Tier-based Gestalt (4&5 or 3&6), starting at 3rd level. I'd like to start planting the seeds of some Dragon encounters, with one using the same concept as the Flame Brothers. These people are a little more rules savvy than that old group, so I wanna make sure I did my homework right (the advantage is that these guys are used to running Pathfinder, so going 3.5 might limit picking apart details I miss).
I want to go another direction with the rumors this time, with the PCs expecting a pushover of a Red Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#redDragon). I want them to expect to face a single Very Young Red Dragon, when in fact they are up against 2 clever Juvenile Red Dragons that also have an extra level or two of spellcasting (not sure if I wanna use a PrC, or just assume Sorcerer levels stack).
The first problem I'm having is hiding a Dragon. I'm not entirely sure Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm) works on a creature of their size & weight (rules confirmation?), and even so, it wouldn't last long enough for my needs. I don't think I can get a Hide check to work.
I'm considering secret passages with hidden openings in their lair, maybe throughout the general region, that give larger bonuses on Hide checks. But there is an issue of how such passages could reasonably have been made. That could create new opportunities, but I'm drawing a blank with the world I created. If pressed, I could include some Redspawn Arcaniss(s) that serve them, to do the grunt work & Item Creation, though it wouldn't be the best fit.
More options would be better than less options. What kinds of spells am I overlooking to pull off this job?
*
The next issue concerns performing the actual "switch" of the two Dragons. During the Flame Brothers encounter, switches were made with a distraction of some sort, and I made secret Spot checks while doing the rolls. Not sure if I can pull off the same tricks here, though. Single Large creature the whole party would be focusing on, probably not going to be able to make Sleight of Hand checks to fake pulling out arrows or the like. Benign Transposition may only be a level 1 spell, but I don't want to burn through spells too quickly.
Ideally, I need to be able to distract the whole party, all at once. Perhaps instead I could use Fog Clouds & its relatives, and use Blindsense & such?
What other ways could let me pull this portion off?
*
The final issue is trying to set the Spot DC to notice that the Dragons are two separate entities. These twin Dragons are going to be hatched from the same egg, and should inherently look very similar. I'd want them to play this up, decorating themselves identically, perhaps even enduring the same injury to maintain the guise (ala The Prestige). But the party has to have a chance of noticing the difference.
I have no idea what would be appropriate here, though. Wish I could remember what I set the Flame Brothers DC at, and why.