The traditional Dresden Files tv/movie thread [Archive]

thorgrim29

2012-09-14, 03:45 PM

So, with Cold Days around the corner, I figured the time might be good to discuss what format this series might take if it gets filmed. Most discussions I've seen on that subject are tv series vs film, but I had a tought recently. It's pretty obvious that it's never going to happen on film, but I think it wouldn't work any better as a tv series, because you'd pretty much have to split each season between 3 or so book, and each book into 2 or 3 hour long episodes. It's just not something I can see happening in the states or canada, and dresden is so north american I'm not sure it could work anywhere else (sure you could shoot it in like Vancouver or Montreal, but not London or Barcelona or wherever).

However, if you think less Game of Thrones and more the Sharpe mini-films (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpe_%28TV_series%29) , things get interresting. You could shoot one or two a year, it wouldn't require a full-time commitment from the actors, and it would give time for the young actors to grow up (mostly Molly and the Alphas).

So anyway, that's my proposed format, now to the fun part, the core cast. I think that would be Harry, Murphy, Thomas, Michael, Susan, Marcone, Bob, Billy, Butters, and Sanya, so I'll start with those. Ground rules, I think we should limit ourselves to TV actors, because as much as Ian McKellen would rock the Merlin, I can't see it happening.

Harry: I know Jim said he wanted Will Smith, but seeing as that's not exactly realistic, we need an actor in his 30s or early 40s who's snarky and a huge geek. Nathan Fillion?

Murphy: Murphy is a small woman who kicks ass and has copious amounts of heroic willpower while having a vulnerable side, I can't help thinking of Sarah Michelle Gellar here. (I know I have a lot of Joss Whedon actors, but that's only because that would be awesome, and I'm used to thinking of them as playing snarky modern fantasy/sci-fi characters)

Thomas: Maybe Zac Efron? Or take it the opposite direction and cast John Barrowman.

Michael: Michael is a tough one, you need a middle-aged guy who can portray a super serious Christian and not come out as an ass or too preachy while still being super sincere and killing things with a sword while in full armor. I got nothing.

Susan: Unknown

Marcone: Bryan Cranston

Bob: Patrick Stewart

Billy: Unknown

Butters: Alan Tudik

Sanya: No idea

Friv

2012-09-14, 04:40 PM

Eldan

2012-09-14, 04:53 PM

Well, they changed a lot about that TV series. Especially Harry himself. To sum up:

-Not a geek.
-Not snarky.
-Rarely uses magic.
-When he uses magic, it's tightly controlled and precise evocation.
-No anger issues.

And for the rest... Bob is a ghost who takes human shape. Morgan is a young black cop. Ancient Mai, the only other wizard to show up, may be a dragon in disguise. Murphy... okay, Murphy was good. I liked Murphy.

But see, the books work on a mixture of action, humour and emotional impact, with a good dose of fantasy weirdness and geek culture. Somehow, they managed to leave all those points out of it.

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-14, 05:03 PM

Another reason it flopped was because it could never make up it's mind about it's format: Monster Of The Week or Story Arch? The overarching plot never took off and the Monster Of The Week was not exciting enough.

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-14, 05:06 PM

I think the mini series is the only possible format for any decent book adaptation. Movies have to cut stuff out, tv shows have to extend everything so it makes sense in hour-long chunks over several seasons. A mini series is exactly what it claims to be, has no required number of episodes and can include everything it wants.
I think Karl Urban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Urban) would make an AWESOME Harry Dresden. If you don't believe me, watch the movie RED. Sadly, he probably wouldn't switch from film to TV without significant coercion.

Inglenook

2012-09-14, 10:22 PM

Harry — Nathan Fillion's looking a little too old at this point, otherwise he'd be a perfect fit. I'm going to go with a controversial choice: James Marsden. I think he's got the right height/look/banter for the job. Or maybe Zachary Levi, although he's quite young.

Murphy — Definitely Sarah Michelle Gellar. Kristen Bell would be great too, although she looks a bit young. Or maybe Julie Benz, if she could pull off the aloof, badass thing.

Thomas — Brandon Routh or Matt Bomer? Both of them have scary eyes, in my opinion.

Michael — Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Full stop.

Susan — Eva Mendez or Rashida Jones.

Marcone — In my head I've always seen him exactly as Eric Roberts.

Billy — Jonah Hill is the first person to come to mind, although I'm not sure it's the right fit.

As for the rest, I can't comment since I'm not that far into the series yet.

KnightDisciple

2012-09-14, 10:37 PM

Jim has actually gone on record saying Dresden Files would, ideally, be done as an animation/anime.

So maybe just pick the best voice for it, and go from there?

Incidentally, I don't think Nathan Fillion's the best fit. I love the guy, but he's not quite right in every "snarky" role out there. :smalltongue:

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-15, 12:20 AM

Jim has actually gone on record saying Dresden Files would, ideally, be done as an animation/anime.

Of course if it was done as anime, I couldn't watch it.

Murphy — Definitely Sarah Michelle Gellar. Kristen Bell would be great too, although she looks a bit young. Or maybe Julie Benz, if she could pull off the aloof, badass thing.

Absolutely not. Completely wrong, IMHO.
Now, I am not sure who to cast instead, we need a barely 5-foot blonde who is very fit, quite muscular and cute.

Inglenook

2012-09-15, 01:52 AM

SMG and Kristen Bell are both quite short, I thought?

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-15, 03:44 AM

SMG and Kristen Bell are both quite short, I thought?

Yes. Kristen Bell is a better match to what I have in my head. She has to work out a lot though.

Xefas

2012-09-15, 04:08 AM

Jim has actually gone on record saying Dresden Files would, ideally, be done as an animation/anime.

So maybe just pick the best voice for it, and go from there?

Having listened to the audio books before I got physical versions for them, any cast other than "Everyone is played by James Marsters (including the women)" would bother me at least a little bit. :smalltongue:

lord_khaine

2012-09-15, 04:13 AM

Of course if it was done as anime, I couldn't watch it.

I wouldnt be able to stop watching :smalltongue:

Eldan

2012-09-15, 08:23 AM

Having listened to the audio books before I got physical versions for them, any cast other than "Everyone is played by James Marsters (including the women)" would bother me at least a little bit. :smalltongue:

Yeah. At least Harry needs to be Marsden.

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-15, 08:43 AM

I don't know, James Marsters is starting to look less badass and more middle aged. And I don't like that curly hair on Harry, but that could be changed.
http://images.zap2it.com/images/celeb-75461/james-marsters-1.jpg

Now, James Marsden... no, certainly not, he's too pretty. I still think Karl Urban has the right about of brown-haired skinny badass idiot, and can certainly pull off snarky and nerdy.

Bayonet Priest

2012-09-15, 08:55 AM

Jim has actually gone on record saying Dresden Files would, ideally, be done as an animation/anime.

I agree, this would be the best thing ever. As an anime you won't be limited by a special effects budget or location for filming. There is plenty of fantastic voice talent out there. People would bitch because anime, but I really think that is the best format for it.

The Glyphstone

2012-09-15, 09:56 AM

thorgrim29

2012-09-15, 01:10 PM

Yeah, I know about the tv series, and it was pretty bad. But yeah, anime, good idea, hadn't tought of it, maybe a bunch of OVAs? And cast Richard Dean Anderson as Harry, just tell him to play wizard O'Neill

Wyntonian

2012-09-15, 01:26 PM

I just learned who Karl Urban is, and although I will now permanently visualize Dresden as Mal, I think Urban's a better fit. Dresden's not that young, is he? (I'm at Proven Guilty, so if please spoiler the spoilers).

Seriously, Urban has a really intense glare. Swap the suit for a duster, and the gun for a blasting rod, and this is great.

http://blastr.com/assets_c/2010/08/KarlUrbanJudgeDredd2-thumb-550x406-45028.jpg

The Glyphstone

2012-09-15, 01:39 PM

Or just keep the gun. It's not like he doesn't use it frequently.

Prime32

2012-09-15, 01:57 PM

I agree, this would be the best thing ever. As an anime you won't be limited by a special effects budget or location for filming. There is plenty of fantastic voice talent out there. People would bitch because anime, but I really think that is the best format for it.

Well there seem to be at least some fans in Japan. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V11CfiDZtEE) :smalltongue: As for voices that come to mind...

Harry Dresden - Tomokazu Sugita (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TomokazuSugita) (Master of sarcasm, enjoys having his characters make geeky references)
Morgan - Norio Wakamato (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NorioWakamoto) being relatively subtle (Because nothing is scarier than having Norio Wakamoto after your head)
The Merlin - Joji Nakata (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JojiNakata)
Thomas Raith - Hikaru Midorikawa (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HikaruMidorikawa) (Known for voicing brooding anti-heroes, cocky guys and yaoi)
Lara Raith - Chiaki Takahashi (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChiakiTakahashi)
The White King - Takehito Koyasu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakehitoKoyasu) (Because you can't have Midorikawa without making Koyasu some kind of rival or foil)
Lasciel - Rie Tanaka (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RieTanaka) (Has enough range for that incident)

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-15, 04:39 PM

Prime32

2012-09-15, 05:54 PM

I would honestly be disappoint if it was animated in a Japanese style instead of an American comic book style. But that's because I don't want my Dresden turned into Japan's idea of what Chicago is like, and then all his monsters are Japanified and it's just the wrong flavor, y'know?Fun fact: Jim Butcher had never been to Chicago when he started writing, and many of the details are wildly inaccurate. :smalltongue:

And what do you imagine would be involved in "Japanifying" monsters? :smallconfused:

Vilyathas

2012-09-15, 06:15 PM

Here's my take. A bit sparse, since I don't know that many actors.

Harry Dresden - Joel McHale from "Community" and "The Soup". He's born to play Harry like you wouldn't believe. He's tall enough at 6'4", has enough comedic experience, and can pull off the tired, rugged, unshaven look.
The Merlin - Sam Neill. Barring that, Sir Patrick Stewart.
McCoy - Billy Connolly
Kincaid - Karl Urban. Because I want to see him play babysitter with his deadpan face.
Aurora - Gillian Jacobs
Leanansidhe - Monica Belucci
Morgan - Bruce Willis
Thomas - John Barrowman would do it, but Matt Bomer fits the bill I think. Or even James Marsden.
Mab - Helena Bonham Carter?
Molly Carpenter - Stephanie Leonidas. No particular preference here, but anyone except Kristen Stewart please. Oh wait...
Maeve - Kristen Stewart.

The Glyphstone

2012-09-15, 08:38 PM

Pretty sure you need emotions to play Maeve. Can you really picture Kristen Stewart as a overbearing icy seductress?

Friv

2012-09-16, 02:44 AM

Pretty sure you need emotions to play Maeve. Can you really picture Kristen Stewart as a overbearing icy seductress?

Having just seen her in Jack Kerouac's "On The Road", I actually can.

I know, I was surprised too. But I think she could actually pull off Maeve.

The Glyphstone

2012-09-16, 09:38 AM

Having just seen her in Jack Kerouac's "On The Road", I actually can.

I know, I was surprised too. But I think she could actually pull off Maeve.

Fair enough. I've only seen her in clips from Twilight and Snow White, maybe she does have emotional acting depth in more complex works.

Hmmm...off-topic, but evil idea. Cast Kristen Stewart and Keenu Reeves to star opposite each other in a romantic comedy.:smallcool:

Eldan

2012-09-16, 11:30 AM

Does it turn out they are both robots?

Hm. They are secretly controlled by the evil Nicholas Cage and... does anyone a really crazy hammy female actor?

darkblade

2012-09-16, 11:52 AM

Well there seem to be at least some fans in Japan. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V11CfiDZtEE) :smalltongue: As for voices that come to mind...

No. Kamen Rider Wizard while so far awesome has pretty much nothing to do with Dresden Files beyond having a Wizard as the main character. Even then their magic system doesn't even vaguely resemble Dresden's

Harry Dresden - Tomokazu Sugita (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TomokazuSugita) (Master of sarcasm, enjoys having his characters make geeky references)
Morgan - Norio Wakamato (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NorioWakamoto) being relatively subtle (Because nothing is scarier than having Norio Wakamoto after your head)
The Merlin - Joji Nakata (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JojiNakata)
Thomas Raith - Hikaru Midorikawa (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HikaruMidorikawa) (Known for voicing brooding anti-heroes, cocky guys and yaoi)
Lara Raith - Chiaki Takahashi (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChiakiTakahashi)
The White King - Takehito Koyasu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakehitoKoyasu) (Because you can't have Midorikawa without making Koyasu some kind of rival or foil)
Lasciel - Rie Tanaka (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RieTanaka) (Has enough range for that incident)

I cannot find any fault in your casting though.

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-16, 11:52 AM

And what do you imagine would be involved in "Japanifying" monsters? :smallconfused:

They would look like they were drawn to fit in Anime?

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-16, 12:03 PM

Fun fact: Jim Butcher had never been to Chicago when he started writing, and many of the details are wildly inaccurate. :smalltongue:

And what do you imagine would be involved in "Japanifying" monsters? :smallconfused:

Yeah you're right, but he does at least get the American city feeling right. I've seen Anime set in US cities that basically just take a Japanese city and give it an American name. That is a problem. The cultures are different.
Similarly, there is a difference between what Japan finds scary and what the US finds scary and it all has to do with cultural norms. I have no problem with the animation style, but if Japan is making it to appeal to Japanese audiences, well they're going to have to change the feel of it so that it only barely resembles the books, the way the TV series had to change them to meet the criteria for TV audiences.

PS I was not sober when I wrote that post and that's why I used the word "Japanified".

darkblade

2012-09-16, 12:11 PM

They would look like they were drawn to fit in Anime?

Pet peeve time. Anime is not a singular art style. It is a word that in the west means animation from Japan (in Japan it just means animation in general but that's an issue for another time). They have no more of a singular style between the many artists in the country than we do here.

To put it into perspective what you are saying is the same as saying Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends is the same as HBO's Spawn because they are both "western" cartoons.

Prime32

2012-09-16, 01:30 PM

No. Kamen Rider Wizard while so far awesome has pretty much nothing to do with Dresden Files beyond having a Wizard as the main character. Even then their magic system doesn't even vaguely resemble Dresden'sWizard is sarcastic, has a dark past, talks rather passionately about how magic comes from positive feelings, wears a longcoat (even in Rider form), likes doughnuts, carries a gun that shoots actual bullets, and favours the use of fire in combat. And it's looking like he's going to take on an apprentice purely so that they won't use magic irresponsibly and get themselves killed.
Also Wizard has a demon in his head that gives him power.
Plus from what I've seen of Rinko so far she's basically Murphy if she grew up in Japan.

Weimann

2012-09-16, 04:06 PM

Prime32

2012-09-16, 06:48 PM

The final battle in Dead Beat certainly qualified for a few episodes from a shounen anime.Don't forget that Harry has a fun-size mentor whose perversion is played for laughs. He's also listed as an example on Shonen Upgrade (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShonenUpgrade).

thorgrim29

2012-09-16, 07:20 PM

I would kickstart the hell out of a dresden files animated series.

Sanguine

2012-09-16, 07:40 PM

Don't forget that Harry has a fun-size mentor whose perversion is played for laughs. He's also listed as an example on Shonen Upgrade (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShonenUpgrade).

*Looks at page* Uhm, I don't see him.

The Glyphstone

2012-09-16, 07:43 PM

*Looks at page* Uhm, I don't see him.

6th from the bottom:

Western Literature Example: Harry Dresden's Hellfire, then Soulfire, then Status as the Winter Knight. Two out of three were deals with devils (one nearly literal), making them upgrades with a great deal of trade-off. The odd one out was a gift from God, and has a Dangerous Forbidden Technique downside to it. However Harry doesn't get the 'enemies of the past are too weak to be an issue' aspect of the trope as he was so completely outclassed by everyone he's ever faced. In ghost stories it is noted that many bad supernatural things avoided his city because he was so feared due to the many powerful foes he had defeated. They assumed that his innate power and shonen upgrades made him unstoppable. In reality, in a subversion as he noted, he had only managed to win by with the aid of more powerful people and lots and lots of dirty tricks.

Sanguine

2012-09-16, 07:58 PM

6th from the bottom:

Western Literature Example: Harry Dresden's Hellfire, then Soulfire, then Status as the Winter Knight. Two out of three were deals with devils (one nearly literal), making them upgrades with a great deal of trade-off. The odd one out was a gift from God, and has a Dangerous Forbidden Technique downside to it. However Harry doesn't get the 'enemies of the past are too weak to be an issue' aspect of the trope as he was so completely outclassed by everyone he's ever faced. In ghost stories it is noted that many bad supernatural things avoided his city because he was so feared due to the many powerful foes he had defeated. They assumed that his innate power and shonen upgrades made him unstoppable. In reality, in a subversion as he noted, he had only managed to win by with the aid of more powerful people and lots and lots of dirty tricks.

Thank you.

As for the actual topic. A Dresden Files cartoon would kick ass. That is all.

Emmerask

2012-09-16, 08:10 PM

Sanguine

2012-09-16, 08:17 PM

To me Dresden Files main appeal comes from its "realism", its dirty, the characters portrayed mostly have shades of gray ie are more then 2 dimensional cutouts, the city it takes place in is real etc

Putting all of that into a "unrealistic" medium like a cartoon would in my opinion take away way to much and make it into something I probably wouldn´t like.

I fail to see how deep fully-realized characters or real cities are in any way mutually exclusive with an animated medium. As for "dirty", would you mind using a less ambiguous word, cause I'm not sure what you mean.

Emmerask

2012-09-16, 08:27 PM

Prime32

2012-09-16, 08:46 PM

They are not, but cartoons (produced for tv) mostly have very clean visuals, no rubble, cigarette buts on the walkway etcYou just need to find a studio with high production values. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwsPsqUME_0)

Bayonet Priest

2012-09-16, 08:55 PM

The final battle in Dead Beat certainly qualified for a few episodes from a shounen anime.

I'm fairly sure that Butcher wouldn't mean for the series to actually be made in Japan, though. The cultural disconnect is huge. They'd make it over here, and then it wouldn't be anime any more (by our definition of the word), not more than Avatar the Last Airbender is.

Really, I kind of think Butcher just meant he thought it should be a cartoon and used a word that wasn't associated with kid shows.

Pretty much what I meant when I said anime would be a good medium. Anime pretty much equals Japan but there isn't any other word I can think of to describe what I mean. Cartoon implies something like Dexter's Lab or MLP for children and Family Guy or The Simpsons for adults. Anime meanwhile ranges from Sailor Moon to Black Lagoon, Ghost in the Shell to Pokemon.

So I don't necessarily mean having the show made in Japan, there just isn't a good word for western anime.

Edit: and about animation not looking gritty or dirty. Black Lagoon didn't exactly look clean to me from what I remember.

darkblade

2012-09-16, 09:35 PM

They are not, but cartoons (produced for tv) mostly have very clean visuals, no rubble, cigarette buts on the walkway etc

I´m not saying you can´t have fully fletched out characters in cartoons, this part was merely an enumeration of points to show what "realism" in that case meant.

And for me a fairly "realistic" show does not work that well in a cartoon environment, with a few exceptions but these where movies not tv shows.

I'd point out the likes of Spawn and the Boondocks for "cartoons" that have the kind of gritty detail you are talking about.

Which again it all comes down to the style that the individual studio takes while making the product.

Winter_Wolf

2012-09-16, 10:37 PM

I can't see myself ever being completely satisfied by the casting choices for a live action tv series/miniseries/movie franchise, and probably really disappointed by most of the choices. I'd be much more forgiving of voice casting not meeting my expectations in this case.

If there were a vote, I'd vote for animated, in the style of Spawn. Dresden and Co. make far too many references to American culture for it to come of properly if it was a Japanese adaptation of US culture. Trust me on this expats have been variously laughing ourselves sick and being thoroughly disgusted by the misunderstanding and/or misrepresentation of Western culture in general in Asian countries.

I think the original Dresden tv series flopped so badly because it didn't have enough broad appeal for newcomers, and strayed too far from the books for the fans. Even though Jim Butcher himself signed off on the tv series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_%28TV_series%29#Main_cast) (wiki entry, under "Departure from novels"). Also I kind of wanted to just slap the guy they cast as Harry. Murphy and Susan were all wrong, too. At the very least each should have been cast in the other's role, especially in light of how much more face time Murphy got vs. Susan.

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-17, 01:38 AM

Pet peeve time. Anime is not a singular art style. It is a word that in the west means animation from Japan (in Japan it just means animation in general but that's an issue for another time). They have no more of a singular style between the many artists in the country than we do here.

I know. A lot of people keep arguing this. Every. Single. Time. this argument comes up a number of people on this forum makes this exact statement and deny that there are obvious similarities between artists. And yet I can tell immediately if something is drawn in Japan (or by people emulating the style). Basically, 99% of the time it is extremely easy to determine from a single image.

I am also fairly allergic to the art style(s) which means it is hard to enjoy anything drawn in it. This is for example something that is really starting to bother me about the (western) Webcomic "industry" since it seems 75% or so of all western webcomics nowadays are drawn in an anime style. It has even started to put me off Menage a 3 since the artist has moved so far away from the "Archie"-style beginnings and gone basically pure Manga-style in her art.

Pretty much what I meant when I said anime would be a good medium. Anime pretty much equals Japan but there isn't any other word I can think of to describe what I mean. Cartoon implies something like Dexter's Lab or MLP for children and Family Guy or The Simpsons for adults. Anime meanwhile ranges from Sailor Moon to Black Lagoon, Ghost in the Shell to Pokemon.

So I don't necessarily mean having the show made in Japan, there just isn't a good word for western anime.

I definitely disagree. We need to FIGHT the cartoon age ghetto, not give up and draw it anime-style.

Feytalist

2012-09-17, 02:37 AM

Actually, the guy who played Harry in the original TV series is a pretty good fit, regardless of the series' characterisation of Harry. He can play Harry again any day.

Wikipedia tells me his name is Paul Blackthorne.

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-17, 05:54 AM

Socratov

2012-09-17, 06:17 AM

Winter_Wolf

2012-09-17, 07:18 AM

I'd just like to chime in that I ccould see Harry beïng played by Alexander Skarsgard (yes I miss the round thingie on the a, but I can't seem to find it in browser). As for Chauncy (the demon with the oxford accent) I'd like to have Stephen Fry...

You can cheat the 'å' with 'aa' (well in Norwegian at least, not so sure about Swedish). If you use Firefox you can install an add-on called abc Tajpu that gives you a whole mess of accented characters. Skarsgård is maybe a little definitely too pretty to be Harry, though.

Socratov

2012-09-17, 09:20 AM

You can cheat the 'å' with 'aa' (well in Norwegian at least, not so sure about Swedish). If you use Firefox you can install an add-on called abc Tajpu that gives you a whole mess of accented characters. Skarsgård is maybe a little definitely too pretty to be Harry, though.

thnx, but I'm compelled to use IE becuase of workPC

on Alexander: yes pretty, but that can be changed, for the rest he can look that grim (watch Tru Blood, you'll see it) andhe looks good with a beard (one of the features he needs)

Prime32

2012-09-17, 10:26 AM

I know. A lot of people keep arguing this. Every. Single. Time. this argument comes up a number of people on this forum makes this exact statement and deny that there are obvious similarities between artists. And yet I can tell immediately if something is drawn in Japan (or by people emulating the style). Basically, 99% of the time it is extremely easy to determine from a single image.

I am also fairly allergic to the art style(s) which means it is hard to enjoy anything drawn in it. This is for example something that is really starting to bother me about the (western) Webcomic "industry" since it seems 75% or so of all western webcomics nowadays are drawn in an anime style. It has even started to put me off Menage a 3 since the artist has moved so far away from the "Archie"-style beginnings and gone basically pure Manga-style in her art.http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8292/7552443636_3479223d16.jpg
http://fireaza.blogspot.ie/2012/01/everything-you-know-about-anime-is.html

American art styles also have a lot of similarities. Hovering things bob up and down in mid-air, talking animals wear gloves but rarely pants, people with superhuman abilities always wear form-fitting outfits even if they have no way to get them (and have large breasts if female), edgy anti-heroes have too many muscles and too many pockets, when people are surprised they jerk backwards (more extreme versions having their jaw drop to the floor and their eyes pop out of their head) or spray drink from their mouths in an unrealistic fashion...

I've seen one manga that made fun of Western superheroes always arriving just in time to stop crimes in their home city, no matter how fast they are, how little noise they make or how far away they take place; the criminal is never gone by the time they arrive, nor has he done anything irreversible. Another made fun of how they always arrive by jumping down from rooftops, often shouting their name and powers as they do so.

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-17, 11:02 AM

Yes, actually, that looks like that and that. Not lying. I can see differences, but they still all look the same.

Weimann

2012-09-17, 11:22 AM

What the heck is up with their faces in that second picture? :smalleek:

I think one must recognize that both extremes are present. There are shows with a unique art style, and there are shows which adhere to industry standards (for a western example, see sitcoms).

Edit: Also, I want to point out that the fact that it's possible to recognize an image as "anime" doesn't imply there's an "anime art style".

KnightDisciple

2012-09-17, 12:09 PM

Spoilering this due to mild off-topic-ness

Wizard is sarcastic, has a dark past, talks rather passionately about how magic comes from positive feelings, wears a longcoat (even in Rider form), likes doughnuts, carries a gun that shoots actual bullets, and favours the use of fire in combat. And it's looking like he's going to take on an apprentice purely so that they won't use magic irresponsibly and get themselves killed.
Also Wizard has a demon in his head that gives him power.
Plus from what I've seen of Rinko so far she's basically Murphy if she grew up in Japan.
Superficially, you're right.
But KMW is sarcastic in a much different way.
His "dark past" is pretty wildly different.
His talk about "magic coming from positive feelings" is undercut by the fact that (2 subbed episodes in), it's actually because he has a monster banging around inside his soul.
The Punisher wears a longcoat; is Harry secretly Frank Castle?
Lots of people like donuts; Homer Simpson likes them. Is Homer Simpson Harry Dresden.
His wacky magical gun shoots silver bullets. Harry's entirely real revolver shoots lead, and uses no magic.
KMW seems to use a mix of fire and air, from what I've seen. Harry prefers fire and force.
The spoilered parallel is even weaker, considering the vastly different origins.
And Rinko wishes she had Murphy's moxie. Murphy's first meeting with Harry was her jumping on a troll and choking it with her nightstick. Rinko flailed around ineffectually with a tiny gun, then whimpered while being threatened. I personally hope she ends up being at least 50% as badass as Murphy, but part of me thinks it's a long shot.
Point is that the resemblance is at best superficial.
And certainly not proof a purely Japanese adaptation of Dresden Files would go right at all.

Right, main topic.

I was probably slightly in error earlier; while I've gotten the impression Jim's a fan of at least some anime, I don't think he ever meant "a Japanese studio should use Japanese voice actors and animate this show entirely to their culture and such". Likely he was more saying he'd like a show that was a bit of a blend. Something like Avatar: the Last Airbender, but rated PG13, if not R. Which seems entirely reasonable and doable.

(Incidentally, while he didn't hate the live-action TV show, every year he gives a countdown of how long until he has the rights back on it. So....)

There are, in my mind, a few major issues with getting a live-action Dresden series to work.
1.)It's hard to find actors and actresses who really fit the bill. Harry is something like 6.5 feet tall; that's frankly a pretty rare height in general. Meanwhile Murphy's, what, at least a foot shorter? And good luck easily finding someone who's a faithful adaptation of Sanya.
2.)There's a lot of books to adapt. Real-life actors age. Not always gracefully. When you're putting out one book/season a year, that can become a real issue when, say, Harry doesn't age.
3.)Budget. I think the reason the old TV show was so unfaithful to the books was because the books have a LOT of special effects. Because, you know, wizards. And that stuff is expensive!

Let's expand on 3 a bit. Books 1-3 would not be totally cheap, but you could probably adapt them without breaking a huge TV budget. But book 4, Summer Knight? That final major scene, the one that's plenty of pages and would take at least 30 minutes real-time (if not longer) to be remotely faithful, is basically one long effects shot. You'd get like 4 RL actors/actresses in the scene, and everything else is just green-screen.
And after that book, it doesn't really let up. If it's not a case of a wide-scale set piece that's hard to replicate (Proven Guilty), any time the Nickelheads show up they're going to take a lot of budget (just Deidre alone!).

Dead Beat is going to have pretty heavy special effects throughout.

And don't even start on how effects-heavy Ghost Story would be!

My point is that, on a sheer economic scale, animation is better. It would allow them to more faithfully adopt the series, instead of having to butcher (heh) many fight scenes in the name of saving money.
As well, it would probably be easier to crank animated seasons out quicker. Considering we're 13 books (soon to be 14) in, and likely have 10 or so more to go before reaching the Big Apocalyptic Trilogy, working to produce more than 1 book a year in animated season seems the only way to not fall hopelessly behind (sort of like how the comic series is hopelessly behind now).
2 books a year in animation would still be 7-8 years before they were close to catching up to Jim's produced library, if they ever could catch up before he was done. That lets some actor voices age, but not terribly so.

I'd probably do it as a series of 1-hour bits, like 6-8 of them, break for Christmas and summer, and crank out 2 of the mini-series every year.

While we're at it, we could do the same for Codex Alera, but just do 1 book a year, and something like 10-12 1hr episodes, since those books have more in them.

Tyndmyr

2012-09-17, 01:24 PM

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-17, 03:53 PM

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8292/7552443636_3479223d16.jpg
http://fireaza.blogspot.ie/2012/01/everything-you-know-about-anime-is.html

Yes.

American art styles also have a lot of similarities.

Yes, but I LIKE western style animation.

Besides, you have the French / Belgian style (Tintin,as Asterix, Lucky Luke, Blueberry etc), American superheroes, Disney...

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-17, 05:05 PM

WHY are people arguing about anime and western styles in a Dresden styles thread?

Seriously its completely besides the point as both east and west have a variety of styles, many of which would be unsuited for reasons that have nothing to do with origin or the differences between the art styles as a whole.

I seriously challenge anyone to say that between say the OOTS (western), my ponytar (a fusion), and this guy (http://moarpowah.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Kiritsugu.jpg) (eastern) that the last one is somehow not the most appropriate style of the three for anything Dresdenverse.

Now yes those aren't maybe the fairest examples, but I chose two highly simplified styles to note that the range is not so simple as west or east.

I submit that that a fine line between realism and an stylized-noir feeling is what an animated Dresdenverse needs.

Agreed. With a Fedora, a blue beetle and good writing...

Excuse me....

AAAAAAArrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhh!!!!!! (on two counts!)

..... just needed to get that out of my system, thank you.

BRC

2012-09-17, 05:58 PM

Agreed. With a Fedora, a blue beetle and good writing...
The Fedora is the exclusive domain of the legendary Cover Art Harry, who will one day battle Book Harry for dominance.

Bayonet Priest

2012-09-17, 06:19 PM

The Fedora is the exclusive domain of the legendary Cover Art Harry, who will one day battle Book Harry for dominance.

And it will be glorious.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-17, 06:35 PM

The Fedora is the exclusive domain of the legendary Cover Art Harry, who will one day battle Book Harry for dominance.

Also saying Fedora conjures something a bit too gangster and not enough cowboy.

Eldan

2012-09-17, 06:52 PM

Hm.

Book cover Harry must be evil inner monologue Harry who already showed up. That one was mentioned to be better dressed and "cooler" looking. So I guess he gets the hat and burning runes on his staff.

BRC

2012-09-17, 06:55 PM

Also saying Fedora conjures something a bit too gangster and not enough cowboy.

True. It's got too wide/flat a brim for a Fedora, and sometimes it has a ring of Medallion type things around it. "Cowboy Hat" does fit better.

The point is, the Apocalyptic Trilogy will be the battle between Book Harry and Cover Art Harry.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-17, 07:07 PM

True. It's got too wide/flat a brim for a Fedora, and sometimes it has a ring of Medallion type things around it. "Cowboy Hat" does fit better.

The point is, the Apocalyptic Trilogy will be the battle between Book Harry and Cover Art Harry.

I think a worn Boss of the Plains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_of_the_Plains) is perhaps the best fit for the art, cowboy hat itself being a little too vague.

At any rate the hat is clearly the Big Bad of the entire series. Ramirez even called the Circle the "Black Hats" remember? Clearly he has some psychic virginal (spoiler!) insight.

BRC

2012-09-17, 07:19 PM

We could just call it a "Stetson".

Hrmm, more evidence

One of the "Dark Moments" For Harry was at the training camp where he basically tortured a ghoul to death for killing one of the warden trainees.

This training camp was in an Old West Boomtown, the type of place where they wore COWBOY HATS!

In Dead Beat, Harry's reason for not joining Grevane is that he "Didn't Like his Hat". Grevane was wearing a similar Hat, if I recall correctly.
Clearly the Hat symbolizes Evil.

Later, in Dead Beat, he uses Necromacy to raise Zombie Sue. It wasn't a human, so it was kind of a grey area. Central to this magi-morally dubious plan was a saddle he got from a Wild West exhibit. He then took this saddle, and went to fight Indian Ghosts, all with a secret agenda to deliver the Word of Kemmler to a Vampire.

Clearly, Cowboys in general, and The Hat in particular, are Evil.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-17, 07:26 PM

We could just call it a "Stetson".

Stetsons are both a company and a pretty specific style. Most notably they are stiff, have the very pronounced ridges ontop (or whatever they are) and tall proportions.

Hat. Types. Are. Serious. Business.

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-18, 05:32 AM

Also saying Fedora conjures something a bit too gangster and not enough cowboy.

Why would there be Cowboy?

Tyndmyr

2012-09-18, 12:39 PM

WHY are people arguing about anime and western styles in a Dresden styles thread?

Seriously its completely besides the point as both east and west have a variety of styles, many of which would be unsuited for reasons that have nothing to do with origin or the differences between the art styles as a whole.

I seriously challenge anyone to say that between say the OOTS (western), my ponytar (a fusion), and this guy (http://moarpowah.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Kiritsugu.jpg) (eastern) that the last one is somehow not the most appropriate style of the three for anything Dresdenverse.

Now yes those aren't maybe the fairest examples, but I chose two highly simplified styles to note that the range is not so simple as west or east.

I submit that that a fine line between realism and an stylized-noir feeling is what an animated Dresdenverse needs.

The realistic conclusion is that none of those three styles is anything like what dresden files should have.

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-18, 01:09 PM

Why not make the style similar to the comics?

http://www.comicbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/stormf01.jpg

Aidan305

2012-09-18, 01:53 PM

Nice style for comics, not so sure that would be a good style for animation.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-18, 01:55 PM

Why would there be Cowboy?

Because both Harry and his evil hat wearing duplicate dress like they belong on the set of El Dorado. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Dorado_%281966_film%29)

The realistic conclusion is that none of those three styles is anything like what dresden files should have.

Which is all well and good to say but it rapidly starts to become an unreachable standard because nothing will satisfy.

I see it all the time, people work up their "perfect" vision of something and then are never satisfied when the actual result doesn't match their mental vision.

Talking about styles that actually *exist* for animation I know I'd have to pick the style of several animes as the best fits I've seen for Dresden Files. The best western style off the top of my head I can recall is B:TAS which even that is just a bit too abstractly styled for my tastes. Maybe some of the recent DC movie animations? Problem really being that at the end of the day western animation simply has not been used to ape live action the way certain anime do because they'd sooner do live action.

And I for one don't think live action is best suited for the Dresden Files.

Why not make the style similar to the comics?

Put simply: easier said then done.

I'd say that pic particularly unsuited to animation, its way to static in its own way. No criticism there, just that while easily the closest mediums animation and comics still have their differences because one has to move the other doesn't.

Now certainly there are ways to get fairly close, just the ones I think of that are the best matches are all eastern ones.

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-18, 02:00 PM

Quite true with the easier said than done. I can see it being stylized enough that it turns out like, say, Batman TAS, or other competent comic book cartoons.

Really, it's silly to say that anime is any less stylized or more realistic than any other cartoon style. Too-long limbs, living hairstyles, unrealistic motion and pointed chins with huge eyeballs instead of bold lines, blocky shapes, unrealistic motion and faces shaped to fit a personality instead of hair shaped to fit a personality.

Tyndmyr

2012-09-18, 02:28 PM

Which is all well and good to say but it rapidly starts to become an unreachable standard because nothing will satisfy.

Cmon now...we're jumping from three styles not working to "nothing will satisfy"? That doesn't seem ridiculous to you?

Many, many other styles exist. Any number of them, including the style used on the comic book would be better than any of those three.

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-18, 02:39 PM

Btw, the best thing to watch if you want a Dresden Files movie is, no joke, The Sorcerer's Apprentice. That movie, while completely meh plot-wise, looks like a test run of possible Dresden special effects.
Nick Cage as Dresden would be a disaster though. :smalltongue:

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-18, 02:42 PM

Quite true with the easier said than done. I can see it being stylized enough that it turns out like, say, Batman TAS, or other competent comic book cartoons.

I know for my money B:TAS is a good example of how western animation even when being 'realistic' has a level of abstraction to the designs. The DCAU started doing timeless noir and transitioned to sort of timeless ray-gun sci-fi, both made to work well.

Dresden needs something modern and idw punk(?) or something. Perhaps the best I can describe it, the Dresden Files don't go in much for Gun Porn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GunPorn) but I feel like the Dresdenverse is a place where it would be very appropriate. And if you don't dare tread on a trope page I will simply point out Western Animation only has one entry... that I don't even think belongs there.

To come at it from another angle while I don't wish to link them too closely I have seen anime that could be made by Quentin Tarantino and I have never seen that in western styles. And that sort of aesthetic is closer to the Dresden Files.

Though the best fits of all are the perhaps some of the urban magic series like Fate/zero or Hellsing... which are closer stylistically the aforementioned Gun Porn and Taratino-esque shows like Black Lagoon then anything in the DCAU.

(I invoke Gun Porn because the working title for the Dresden Files was "Semi-Auto Magick" at one point wasn't it?)

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-18, 02:44 PM

Because both Harry and his evil hat wearing duplicate dress like they belong on the set of El Dorado. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Dorado_%281966_film%29)

Not making him a cowboy.

Anyway, style-verse: How about going back to the classics? **** Tracy style?

BRC

2012-09-18, 02:51 PM

Not making him a cowboy.

Anyway, style-verse: How about going back to the classics? **** Tracy style?
We're not saying Dresden is a cowboy.

We're saying that Cover-Dresden wears a Cowboy Hat. "Cowboy vs Gangster" was in reference to the Hat, nothing else.
Personally, I'm not sure any animated thing could properly handle the Dresdenverse. The books use Harry's narration to provide worldbuilding, humor, and to set the tone of a scene. You can pull that off with Comics (I've read the Dresden Files comics, and they're pretty good), but anything live-action is going to be difficult to pause the action every time the audience needs to be reminded what a Red Court Vampire is.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-18, 03:04 PM

Cmon now...we're jumping from three styles not working to "nothing will satisfy"? That doesn't seem ridiculous to you?

Many, many other styles exist. Any number of them, including the style used on the comic book would be better than any of those three.

Hey I've just seen it too many times.

Not that I'm not nessecarily indulging in a little of the same. I picked the Kiritsugu Emiya picture because he looks a lot like Harry would in an anime and Fate/zero's style is probably what I'd pick for animating the Dresdenverse. Not perfect, maybe a touch too humorless, but then Harry's snark will be hard to do on-screen period. I also have others out there I'd settle for, the Hellsing animations (either) or the Certain Magical/Scientific Index/Railgun people.

My point I think remains, its waaaay too easy to just pick a nebulous-non-specific answer like some other style. We can't weigh the respective merits of two styles when one doesn't *technically* exist.

Personally, I'm not sure any animated thing could properly handle the Dresdenverse. The books use Harry's narration to provide worldbuilding, humor, and to set the tone of a scene. You can pull that off with Comics (I've read the Dresden Files comics, and they're pretty good), but anything live-action is going to be difficult to pause the action every time the audience needs to be reminded what a Red Court Vampire is.

Now this is a good point.

Of course we can also shelf a lot of the descriptions. We reaaallly don't need to know Marcone has eyes the color of old dollar bills every time he shows up. I'm not bothered by big descriptive passages all that much (I AM a WoT fan) but I do like them to be different!

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-18, 03:09 PM

We're not saying Dresden is a cowboy.

We're saying that Cover-Dresden wears a Cowboy Hat.

But he is not?
(To clarify: He might be wearing a hat that IRL cowboys sometimes wore, but it's not what is known as a cowboy hat).

Prime32

2012-09-18, 03:11 PM

Personally, I'm not sure any animated thing could properly handle the Dresdenverse. The books use Harry's narration to provide worldbuilding, humor, and to set the tone of a scene. You can pull that off with Comics (I've read the Dresden Files comics, and they're pretty good), but anything live-action is going to be difficult to pause the action every time the audience needs to be reminded what a Red Court Vampire is.Meh. A lot of anime are adapted from Light Novels, and Light Novel protagonists can have up to ten times the amount of worldbuilding narration that Harry has. Sure the anime miss out on some random tidbits, but most studios can keep the tone perfectly well.

For instance, in an adaptation there's no need to narrate every time he appears that Bob is not a skull but a knowledge spirit inhabiting a skull. He can visibly leave the skull and there are plenty of references to his nature as part of normal conversations; until it comes up it's not going to change your understanding of the story.

BRC

2012-09-18, 03:30 PM

But he is not?
(To clarify: He might be wearing a hat that IRL cowboys sometimes wore, but it's not what is known as a cowboy hat).
Well, there are multiple styles of hat that are referred to as a "Cowboy Hat". It's not any official term.

As for the Narration Challenge, it's not just his internal dialogue, it's the very complex rules that have to be brought up quite frequently. Even Bobsposition can only go so far.

Just think, there are several times where it's significant that Harry is avoiding locking eyes with somebody to avoid a Soulgaze.
Or Red Court Vamps: they look pretty but are bat-people in human skins, though they used to be human until they were turned, and they have some classic Vampire weaknesses, and their tongues excrete a narcotic saliva. Now, that wouldn't be too bad if those were the only rules the viewer needed to keep track of, but you've also got White and Black court Vampires, Faries (Come from the Nevernever, organized into Summer, Winter, and Wild, vulnerable to Iron, their nobles (The Sidhe) cannot tell a lie but are skilled at twisting the truth), Wizards, The Denarians, the Knights, ect ect. All these different groups and rules that it's easy to keep straight on a page, but when you have a limited amount of time to explain things can get complicated.

The Alphas show up and Harry turns to some random passerbye and says "These are the Alphas, there Werewolves, well, they're a type of werewolf. Basically they're human with the ability to shapechange into big wolves. They keep their intelligence, which makes them very dangerous, but anything that could kill a big wolf will kill them. They're helping me fight some Ghouls, which are basically Human, only they're fast, strong, really hard to kill, and they have an insatiable hunger for human flesh".

You know, just so that everybody has the rules clear.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-18, 03:32 PM

But he is not?
(To clarify: He might be wearing a hat that IRL cowboys sometimes wore, but it's not what is known as a cowboy hat).

And Fedora (https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&authuser=0&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=665&q=Fedora&oq=Fedora&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1320.2326.0.2535.6.5.0.1.1.0.73.3 40.5.5.0...0.0...1ac.1.U3hxV6ssR50) doesn't exactly conjure an exact description either.

I still judge it to be more cowboy hat (not a Stetson mind you) then a gangster hat.

I think a Boss of the Plains (https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&authuser=0&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=665&q=Fedora&oq=Fedora&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1320.2326.0.2535.6.5.0.1.1.0.73.3 40.5.5.0...0.0...1ac.1.U3hxV6ssR50#hl=en&safe=off&authuser=0&site=imghp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=boss+of+the+plains&oq=Boss+of+the+&gs_l=img.1.0.0l9j0i24.166945.168658.0.170341.12.11 .0.1.1.0.254.1222.7j3j1.11.0...0.0...1c.1.RT5i2c3H ynU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=366627cadda3dbbd&biw=1366&bih=665) in black and beaten to hell is the best fit, but that's not a well known term and something most people would say "cowboy hat" to.

Prime32

2012-09-18, 04:02 PM

As for the Narration Challenge, it's not just his internal dialogue, it's the very complex rules that have to be brought up quite frequently. Even Bobsposition can only go so far. Again, I've seen plenty of anime with settings way more complex than The Dresden Files (heck, Magiranger (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0affZUZET2o) probably had a more complex magic system... which was completely removed for the Power Rangers adaptation). And it's easier to keep track of everything in a series format.

Compare:
http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire

http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Magic
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Magecraft and http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Magic (they're separate things)

Avilan the Grey

2012-09-18, 04:18 PM

I still judge it to be more cowboy hat (not a Stetson mind you) then a gangster hat.

It's a kind of fedora.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZ0fZ6y6UeS7GbsuidI7yoRWG00l2Xh n-92JFfgfJLocge2bhJ Probably more of the Indy model.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-18, 04:23 PM

On the depiction issue an adaptation doesn't need to detail how the Red Court works in every detail with clear explanations.

Just have Bianca on screen doing her Madam routine and turn into this:
http://img2.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4/8ffe41382eaa27617cb9cb02e63013d31228944619_full.jp g

Narcotic drool? Show that thing above grasping and drooling on someone then that person go from afraid to gasping, writhing, and moaning all creepy sexually.

Different types of vamps, just be sure Thomas and Mavra have different aesthetics when introduced and explain once in Grave Files. Trust the audience a bit more to remember or just throw a few throw away refresher lines to everything.

The world building is the easy part to convert, the real problem is that you will have to change the humor of the series, since you have to do Harry from the outside more and humor is very contextual. Sure some jokes may carry or even work better, but I bet all will. You can't just port the novels into animated format but have to give some thought to rewriting their style which is a more difficult task then the mere details.

Prime32

2012-09-18, 04:48 PM

The world building is the easy part to convert, the real problem is that you will have to change the humor of the series, since you have to do Harry from the outside more and humor is very contextual. Sure some jokes may carry or even work better, but I bet all will. You can't just port the novels into animated format but have to give some thought to rewriting their style which is a more difficult task then the mere details.Still, it's been done. Lina Inverse had monologues not far from Harry's ones (albeit she didn't say them out loud as often), and the anime adaptation of Slayers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QdtEXexKns) was hilarious.

KnightDisciple

2012-09-18, 10:03 PM

Let's ditch the arguments about Cover!Harry's hat, okay?

Anyways. As far as the "portraying different vampires" bit, it's not that hard.

Red Court usually look pretty, but have fangs, lap blood, and turn into terrible bat-monsters.
White Court are basically Twilight Vamps minus the blood. Seriously, they even sparkle when they amp up. They're pretty, but in a different way, not too hard to display.
Black Court look dead. Like, corpse-ified and stuff.

Seems pretty easy to make them distinct.

As for the humor and such...I think at least some voiceover for internal monologue might work.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-18, 11:15 PM

White Court are basically Twilight Vamps minus the blood. Seriously, they even sparkle when they amp up. They're pretty, but in a different way, not too hard to display.

Hey no need to be insulting now Blood Rites alone predates Twilight by a year and Thomas had been around well before that.

Also they that they would undoubtedly Bishie Sparkle should not be confused for having a congenital accident involving glitter. (Also they shine)

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-18, 11:46 PM

They're not really vampires, they're incubi and succubi.
How you introduce the Red Court:
Have an internal monologue like in noir detective movies.
Harry says "I have to talk to the vampire in town." or something.
They do that scene, she does that feeding on Rachel that displays the narcotic spit, she kills her displaying her vampire nature, she explodes at Dresden in her bat shape, Dresden stops her and leaves. You know, how it plays out in the book but with less "And then she exploded into a bat thing" and more her exploding into a bat thing.
And Thomas, introduce him by having him do his soul eating seduction thing on Justine. Like in the book.
Black, make them look dead and Dracula-like. Harry drops a comment about Dracula being an instruction manual.

He doesn't have to SAY "My basement was lined with wire shelves la dee da" or "Marcone's eyes were green like dollar bills", they just make it happen. And while they do need the humor, I don't think the humor would suffer if there were fewer random pop culture references. A lot of the best comments Harry makes, he makes out loud to the bad guys. And some of his funny internal dialogue can happen at scene transition narration.

KnightDisciple

2012-09-19, 12:28 AM

Hey no need to be insulting now Blood Rites alone predates Twilight by a year and Thomas had been around well before that.

Also they that they would undoubtedly Bishie Sparkle should not be confused for having a congenital accident involving glitter. (Also they shine)

I typed that in a rush....

They're Twilight vamps, but done better, right, and earlier.

BRC

2012-09-19, 01:02 AM

I typed that in a rush....

They're Twilight vamps, but done better, right, and earlier.

To the point where Twilight is exactly the type of book they would have written to make their prey more compliant.

Dante & Vergil

2012-09-19, 04:16 PM

To the point where Twilight is exactly the type of book they would have written to make their prey more compliant.

Sounds like something the White Court would do.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-19, 10:05 PM

I know its just a joke but I find that suggestion increasingly annoying every time I come across it.

The White Court doesn't need you thinking vampires are somehow romantic, I mean hell true love and vampires is an idea working *against* them.

I mean the inevitable glitter joke Thomas has to weather in-universe will be bad enough.

thorgrim29

2012-09-20, 12:37 AM

Actually it would be awesome for them as long as the vampire is just using the girl and not actually falling for her like Thomas did. The proof of that is that while Harry loved Stacy (spoiler free spoilers, how cool is that?), it wasn't mutual due to mind rape (oh well....) and Lara was able to feed on him and he blew his load all over her vampire tunnel.

edit: after 15 seconds, I feel ashamed of that pun, but will leave it intact.

Prime32

2012-09-20, 04:05 AM

Sinfonian

2012-09-20, 06:11 PM

The White Court doesn't need you thinking vampires are somehow romantic, I mean hell true love and vampires is an idea working *against* them.
I don't think they would find it to be much of a risk. The books make it very clear that true, selfless love is a rare thing.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-09-21, 04:47 PM

I don't think they would find it to be much of a risk. The books make it very clear that true, selfless love is a rare thing.

They also have no reason to need people more accepting of the idea of vampires.

The White Court already have more or less the sweetest deal out there for supernatural factions, because really they are humans at the core of themselves. They benefit from removing other supernatual interests, and would be better off if humanity forgot the word vampire entirely.

We already know that to be one of Lara's exact motivations too. (Given you wouldn't eliminate the last Blacks or presumably Jades physically with Oblivion but its still to the White benefit)

turkishproverb

2012-09-21, 10:33 PM

Hate to tell you this, but the Dresden Files was already made into a TV show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_%28TV_series%29), and it kind of flopped.

As was a good idea, though, they didn't try to make the series fit each book perfectly; instead, they made it more of a "Case Files of Harry Dresden show" with a slowly-developing metaplot. Would have been nice if it had gotten further; I remember finding it pretty fun at the time.

Didn't flop so much as got screwed by the network. It had good ratings but had too high a percentage o female viewers, so they axed it.

Wasn't a bad show either, even if it wasn't as good as the books.

The complains about casting from fans were ridiculous though. Both parts were well played, even if they had the *gasp* evil idea of not having the same hair color!

The bug and the trench-coat? Still not big deals, but at least a better argument.

I'll say this on an adaptation: harry's internal monolog will help a lot.

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-22, 12:03 AM

Socratov

2012-09-28, 04:12 AM

Appearance is a big deal when "5-foot nothing and blonde" and "like someone's favorite aunt" are repeated in every book. :smalltongue: "Dark-haired and moviestar-hot" just bugged me.
I mean, Marcone's eyes weren't even as green as dollar bills! :smallbiggrin:

Plot-wise, it was an ok supernatural mysteryish show, but it wasn't enough like the books. Of course I'm the type to raeg about the Harry Potter movies. If I like something, it has to look, feel, and be exactly like I imagined it dammit! :smallbiggrin:

I feel sorry for you, that would mean you would never like any movie of which you have read the book before... Oh, and good luck with Tolkien's Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit... And disney's version of Taran... :smalleek:

On the other hand, who needs movies when they have a rock solid imagination? :smallbiggrin:

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-28, 05:12 AM

I liked the LOTR movies because as far as the books went my imagination couldn't take me very far. Too much worldbuilding and my brain shuts down and I have to jump from one patch of dialogue/action to the next. That's why I like urban fantasy so much. More action, more character focus, less BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. And when I like the book, I imagine it much better than any movie could deliver.

molten_dragon

2012-09-28, 09:10 AM

I would honestly be disappoint if it was animated in a Japanese style instead of an American comic book style. But that's because I don't want my Dresden turned into Japan's idea of what Chicago is like, and then all his monsters are Japanified and it's just the wrong flavor, y'know?

I wouldn't mind it being done in a pseudo-anime style, but here in the US. Like Avatar.

That actually could be the best format for doing the Dresden files, since there's no hope of it ever being made into a series of 25 movies.

shadow_archmagi

2012-09-28, 10:19 AM

I'm not quite all the way through the TV series, but I'm totally okay with it being different ever since I read that Douglas Adams quote that I'm going to paraphrase here

"Every time I write the Hitchhiker's Guide I write it differently because screw doing the same thing over and over again. That'd be so dull! So yeah, the films are always a new story with similar themes because that's the way I like it.

I'm totally okay with Dresden Files TV consisting almost entirely of new content. It's like free DLC!

Eldan

2012-09-28, 10:26 AM

shadow_archmagi

2012-09-28, 10:32 AM

Yeah, but the various hitchhiker media still share various core elements. There's no movie where Arthur Dent is an alien himself who just pretends to be an Earth man, the earth is never destroyed and there's not a single joke anywhere.

Not that that couldn't be good, but it wouldn't be Hitchhiker's Guide.

Sure, sure. But the Dresfiles TV keeps the spirit of the books- It's a snarky detective wizard who solves crimes (usually wizard crimes) using wizardry. Hair color, skin color, jeep color, etc. are all just details, really.

Eldan

2012-09-28, 10:38 AM

I don't know... it's been ages since I've seen it, but much is dfferent. Harry himself, especially, and his character is what makes the books tick. Harry just solving small supernatural crimes? I'd love that, I've been missing that in the later books. But I remember Harry as un-snarky well in control of his magic, not a nerd and a hundred other small changes.

Mauve Shirt

2012-09-28, 03:21 PM

Yeah, in the tv show Harry's not particularly nerdy, nowhere near as delightfully snarky, and he's far too good at what he does.

Socratov

2012-10-01, 06:20 AM

iulia

2012-10-06, 10:25 PM

I'm a really big fan of the books, but I have to say that some parts of the TV series made me cringe...

shadow_archmagi

2012-10-06, 10:52 PM

I'm a really big fan of the books, but I have to say that some parts of the TV series made me cringe...

I think that's an inevitable thing. Dresden's character is often cringeworthy, and the textual medium softens the blow a lot.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-10-06, 11:56 PM

Would it be sacriledge if I claimed that the Indiana Jones movies were basically Dresdenfiles without the protagonist using magic and not beïng situated in chicago? For the rest Indy fits perfectly: problem? I prepared, but not enough, I hope this works, *cue complete and utter chaos*.

Harry once justified carrying his revolver to Murphy with the specious logic of being good enough for Indy.

Definitely uses the Indy Ploy too.

There's some influence there for sure.

(And now I want Ebenezer McCoy to be played by Sean Connery...)

Wyntonian

2012-10-07, 07:46 PM

(And now I want Ebenezer McCoy to be played by Sean Connery...)

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude.....

Or maybe Clint Eastwood?

Soras Teva Gee

2012-10-07, 08:52 PM

Or maybe Clint Eastwood?

Nah.... that's Morgan.

Go ahead Dresden, you feel lucky punk?

Philistine

2012-10-07, 09:42 PM

Would it be sacriledge if I claimed that the Indiana Jones movies were basically Dresdenfiles without the protagonist using magic and not beïng situated in chicago? For the rest Indy fits perfectly: problem? I prepared, but not enough, I hope this works, *cue complete and utter chaos*.

Not so much sacrilege as completely backward. The Indiana Jones movies were released in the 1980s; Raiders of the Lost Ark was ~20 years before Storm Front. So if anything, the relation is "Harry Dresden is Indiana Jones in Chicago with magic," not the other way around.

The Glyphstone

2012-10-07, 10:34 PM

Nah.... that's Morgan.

Go ahead Dresden, you feel lucky punk?

I think Clint is too old to play Morgan at this point. Maybe 20-30 years ago, but Morgan is supposed to be a physically capable fighter in prime condition, which Clint....isn't. Not anymore. Not at 82 years old.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-10-07, 10:47 PM

I think Clint is too old to play Morgan at this point. Maybe 20-30 years ago, but Morgan is supposed to be a physically capable fighter in prime condition, which Clint....isn't. Not anymore. Not at 82 years old.

I suppose but I dare say remember Morgan is over a hundred or whatever and the stabilization against aging seems to be pretty late. And like most aging hollywood names I'd totally buy him looking in his 50s.

Also we really don't have many action scenes with Morgan. And he's an earth-mage, he's just got to stomp the ground a few times to get through to Turn Coat where he's got a cut leg and is in bed or a wheelchair. And I'm not sure I can think of anyone tougher then booth leather in demeanor.

I think it workable but of course would probably never happen. Clint doesn't seem to do any projects but his own these days anyways.

The Glyphstone

2012-10-07, 10:55 PM

I guess they could layer him up in makeup to de-age him a bit, but not only is he is 82, he looks 82. Sure, he's got the attitude and the mannerisms that you'd need for Morgan, but it'd be much easier to just get an actual 50-year old actor who's almost as good as Clint.

Soras Teva Gee

2012-10-07, 11:25 PM

thorgrim29

2012-10-08, 01:22 AM

Meh, Jack Coleman would make a better Morgan then Eastwood. Remember Morgan has to be believable going against the Red King, who's a several millenia old vampire surrounded by fallen gods

Mauve Shirt

2012-10-08, 07:37 AM

Clint is too skinny and squinty, not big and tough and muscley enough for Morgan. Honestly when I think Morgan I think an Andre the Giant type, except slightly less so (big, but human proportions) and with a more Anglo Saxon face.

The Glyphstone

2012-10-08, 10:56 AM

Let's do this with pictures:

http://www.newsmax.com/getattachment/1a81ded4-e973-42ee-9079-85da4547dada/clint-eastwood446.jpg.aspx

VS

http://www.puppiesandflowers.com/blogimages/sept2007/oldmanWine.jpg

I suspect the two's ages are not terribly far apart as the gentleman with the wine I found under the second result for 80 year old man.

While so help me lets see what around 50 gets you in Hollywood:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/TomCruiseDec08MTV_cropped.jpg/220px-TomCruiseDec08MTV_cropped.jpg

Yes he's 50, I almost cheated and went with Brad Pitt at 48 who still looks like Brad Pitt. On the other gender end Madonna is 54, go look her up.

I stand by it being workable.

I'm not sure how old that pic you have of him is - the article it's taken from is over a year old, and could be as much as ten years old based on the text, but here's one of him a few months ago:
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/culture_test/clinteastwood%20apimages%20rnc%20615.jpg

Much closer to your Option B than Option A, though admittedly not as bad as Mr. B.

Clint would make a fantastic McCoy, with his attitude and appearance, but I don't think he has the raw physicality anymore to be Morgan.