proficiencies

[limejuicepowder]

This is a roundabout way to ask this question, so please excuse the ramble.

The other day I got to thinking about how helpless a modern day person would be if they were brought back in time to the medieval era, or a classic high-fantasy DnD setting. Virtually all of our skills, knowledge, and abilities would mean absolutely nothing. To add salt, for the most part the average individual wouldn't even be able to bring new technology to use; how many people can actually, in detail, even explain how a light bulb works, much less make one? All of the skills they would have and take for granted would be totally new to (most of) us.

This got me to thinking about what skills would be useful, and that brought me to this: would a modern average individual be proficient with any weapons? In-game, we would be a commoner 1, giving is 1 simple weapon proficiency. But what constitutes proficiency? Anyone can swing a blunt object, but does that really constitute proficiency with a club?

Another example: I used to sword fight all the time with my friends, full contact (usually using padded swords, but not always). However, I have no doubt a trained swordsman would think I was novice - does that mean I just have a poor BaB, or am I non-proficient with a longsword?

Thoughts?

[Diarmuid]

I'm pretty sure most people could point and click a crossbow at something and have a shot at hitting it.

Just because you're proficient doesnt mean you're any good. As a 1st level commoner with a 10 Dex, you're still looking to roll your target's AC on a 20-sider to hit them.

[Medic!]

I'd say that being able to use the weapon without having to concentrate on endangering yourself would constitute proficiency with most weapons. On the exotic scale there would be tricks to wielding the weapon/using the technology to be effective.

Having a lower level of skill with the weapon would translate to BAB imo.

As an example (that like 80% of the forum here should be able to identify with :smallbiggrin: ) I give you the kid who made/found/catalog-ordered his first pair of "numb-chucks."

Eventually you swung 'em around so fast you whacked yourself in the balls b/c you weren't proficient with them, and couldn't keep from soprano-ing yourself without concentrating on what you were doing and using them below their basic level of effectiveness (an attack penalty.)

With crossbows - knowing how to aim it properly could show a non-proficiency (sight alignment, for the shooters out there...is it pumpkin on a stick, blade sights, a dot-sight, etc)

With things like longswords, you're looking at swinging it in such a fashion that you risk hitting yourself if you whiff, etc

[Belril Duskwalk]

This got me to thinking about what skills would be useful, and that brought me to this: would a modern average individual be proficient with any weapons? In-game, we would be a commoner 1, giving is 1 simple weapon proficiency. But what constitutes proficiency? Anyone can swing a blunt object, but does that really constitute proficiency with a club?
I would argue yes. It seems to me that proficiency in a weapon is simply the ability to have a good chance of causing damage to an enemy with it without incurring a significant chance of accidentally cutting your own foot off. As for being very good at it, well that is a matter best left to your attack bonus.


Another example: I used to sword fight all the time with my friends, full contact (usually using padded swords, but not always). However, I have no doubt a trained swordsman would think I was novice - does that mean I just have a poor BaB, or am I non-proficient with a longsword?
I think I would say yes once again. Unless you were notably better with say a club than you are with swords. If that were the case, probably non-proficient with swords, but with a decent enough BaB you don't notice as much.

Fortunately, if you get dropped into the later end of the medieval era crossbows would likely be available. It's my understanding you can learn to shoot one of those rather quickly. I would have to expect anybody familiar with modern firearms would have something of an edge in training.

[limejuicepowder]

I think I would say yes once again. Unless you were notably better with say a club than you are with swords. If that were the case, probably non-proficient with swords, but with a decent enough BaB you don't notice as much.



Based on that I would argue that everyone gets automatic club proficiency. Really, there's nothing to fighting with a club. 1) swing it, and 2) block with it. Swords are much more complicated, requiring proper blade positioning at the very least to attack or block effectively (guess that's why clubs are simple and swords are martial). Still though, clubs should be in a category unto themselves; spears certainly have more nuance then a club.

Related note: what do y'all think about changing proficiencies to 2 skill points, rather than a feat? As a feat, proficiency in something is almost NEVER worth it. With skill points, some of the cool but weak exotic weapons might actually get used. Plus it would more accurately reflect someone picking up a weapon and learning to use it fairly quickly, rather then having to wait as long as 3 levels.

[Grundy]

There's something to that skill point idea. Or you could change the feat to give you a class of weapons, or an array. Say 6 simple or martial weapons of your choice, or something like that. After all, your seeking basic proficiency, not mastery.
For instance, why couldn't the party cleric train with sword, axes and bows with the party fighter? He picks up enough to use the weapons, but not so much as to multiclass?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I guess I'm one of the fortunate few. I understand enough of the basics of metalurgy, forge work, the basic design of an electric turbine and/or electric motor, carpentry, plumbing, automotive design, and a couple other skills that'd be really useful if I was ever displaced in time, or just survived an airplane crash into the wilderness with minimal injury, that I'd get along pretty well. Though in all honesty, I'm not exactly spectacularly skilled in any of those areas.

I'm also a proficient woodsman, and skilled in the use of a number of melee weapons. These are areas in which I excell.

Specialization is for insects. :smallamused:



On topic: if the weapon feels like an extension of your arm, you're proficient. If you have to focus on the particular placement of your hands and the movements of your wrists and footwork to get them right, probably not.

[limejuicepowder]

I guess I'm one of the fortunate few. I understand enough of the basics of metalurgy, forge work, the basic design of an electric turbine and/or electric motor, carpentry, plumbing, automotive design, and a couple other skills that'd be really useful if I was ever displaced in time, or just survived an airplane crash into the wilderness with minimal injury, that I'd get along pretty well. Though in all honesty, I'm not exactly spectacularly skilled in any of those areas.


Still though, imagine the difficulty in explaining any one of those things to someone who has absolutely no idea what it is. To a questioning and intelligent listener, you would have to explain roughly 200 years of technology and science, and then build whatever it was you were describing. Otherwise you would just sound like loon, making up stories.

Kudos on the skill set though, that's impressive. Even though I'm mechanically inclined (I make prosthetics and orthotics for a living), I still have to ask my gf where to add the oil to the car, and my strongest explanation for a combustion engine would be "burning fossilized and processed animal remains in order to create power."

[Kelb_Panthera]

Still though, imagine the difficulty in explaining any one of those things to someone who has absolutely no idea what it is. To a questioning and intelligent listener, you would have to explain roughly 200 years of technology and science, and then build whatever it was you were describing. Otherwise you would just sound like loon, making up stories.

Kudos on the skill set though, that's impressive. Even though I'm mechanically inclined (I make prosthetics and orthotics for a living), I still have to ask my gf where to add the oil to the car, and my strongest explanation for a combustion engine would be "burning fossilized and processed animal remains in order to create power."

Meh, the electrical stuff wouldn't be that useful in a medieval setting anyway, I'd probably just keep it to myself. Similarly, automotive technology needs support that's just not there. Maybe a steam driven carriage or something at best.

It's much easier to explain things when you have an example to take apart and describe. Build it, show it off, try to avoid being tried as a witch, then show interested parties how it works.

[Grundy]

If you were stuck in history, the most valuable of your skills would probably be plumbing, assuming you were near civilization. Imagine what they would have paid for anything approaching a modern bathroom....
The biggest challenge would be pipes. After that, it's all downhill;)

[Kelb_Panthera]

pipes are easy. All you need is copper and some metal working tools. The annoying part will be fastening them together without being able to machine the threads in the pipe ends and the joints between pipes. I guess copper bands sealed with pitch could work most of the time, if you keep the pressure low. T-joints would be a pain though.

[Grundy]

I think you'd have some trouble making copper pipe. It would be hard to get nice sheets of copper, for a start. Once you did, closing the pipe would be a chore. Extrusion is right out.
I was thinking lead and clay pipes. Just tell them not to drink the water.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think you'd have some trouble making copper pipe. It would be hard to get nice sheets of copper, for a start. Once you did, closing the pipe would be a chore. Extrusion is right out.
I was thinking lead and clay pipes. Just tell them not to drink the water.

I couldn't use any modern methods of making copper pipes. But copper isn't a particularly difficult metal to work. Smelt it out of the ore, hammer it into sheets, roll it and seal it. Sealing options include pitch, very carefully applied molten copper, treated leather sheaths, etc.

Just because it can't be done the same way it is today, doesn't mean there's no work-around.

[only1doug]

Specialization is for insects. :smallamused:


Nice quote.

Have you read the 1632 books (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=1632%20eric%20flint&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F1632_se ries&ei=coxYUJKXN8n80QXf_4DQCg&usg=AFQjCNF1d5rwfRE_CsOjvdg4cQwdIW_UNg)by Eric Flint? A small town is somehow sent back through time to 1632 and has to cope with the enviroment they find in their new timeline.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Nice quote.

Have you read the 1632 books (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=1632%20eric%20flint&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F1632_se ries&ei=coxYUJKXN8n80QXf_4DQCg&usg=AFQjCNF1d5rwfRE_CsOjvdg4cQwdIW_UNg)by Eric Flint? A small town is somehow sent back through time to 1632 and has to cope with the enviroment they find in their new timeline.

I have not. After reading the wikipedia entry's intro it sounds rather intriguing though. I may look into getting ahold of this.

[only1doug]

I have not. After reading the wikipedia entry's intro it sounds rather intriguing though. I may look into getting ahold of this.

They are all available free as e-books through Fifth Imperium (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/) (the publisher has granted permission for these to be hosted and distributed)

A note from the 5th Imperium websire regarding copyright infringment.
This site is not associated with Baen Publishing Enterprises .
Well… 'not associated' in the sense that they don't run this site or support it in any way, shape or form beyond the fact that they've given permission for their CDs to be freely distributed by interested third parties. Any complaints, quibbles, comments, small plain brown paper bags filled with small-denomination well-circulated bills should be directed to baencd@this_domain's_name, not to Baen Publishing Enterprises.

For the small minority of people who still seem to think that this site is blatantly trampling upon multiple copyrights and don't believe what's in the linked CD-ROM Orientation, feel free to visit the Baen Publishing Enterprises web site and drop a dime on me. They have a lively web forum and you can speak directly to the publisher and webmaster in several conferences. Just be prepared to be roundly mocked after complaining about this site.

Baen knows all about this site, to the point where the publisher has my phone number and she's not afraid to use it.

[Kelb_Panthera]

They are all available free as e-books through Fifth Imperium (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/) (the publisher has granted permission for these to be hosted and distributed)

A note from the 5th Imperium websire regarding copyright infringment.
This site is not associated with Baen Publishing Enterprises .
Well… 'not associated' in the sense that they don't run this site or support it in any way, shape or form beyond the fact that they've given permission for their CDs to be freely distributed by interested third parties. Any complaints, quibbles, comments, small plain brown paper bags filled with small-denomination well-circulated bills should be directed to baencd@this_domain's_name, not to Baen Publishing Enterprises.

For the small minority of people who still seem to think that this site is blatantly trampling upon multiple copyrights and don't believe what's in the linked CD-ROM Orientation, feel free to visit the Baen Publishing Enterprises web site and drop a dime on me. They have a lively web forum and you can speak directly to the publisher and webmaster in several conferences. Just be prepared to be roundly mocked after complaining about this site.

Baen knows all about this site, to the point where the publisher has my phone number and she's not afraid to use it.


I can't download anything on this machine (nintendo wii) and E-books rub me the wrong way anyway.

Thanks for the link anyway, though. :smallsmile:

[Arbane]

I'd argue the most important things anyone from the modern day would know are germ theory ("wash your hands!") and possibly modern math. Democracy might be the most _dangerous_ thing they know...

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd argue the most important things anyone from the modern day would know are germ theory ("wash your hands!") and possibly modern math. Democracy might be the most _dangerous_ thing they know...

Modern math isn't that modern. Most of it was figured out a long time ago, especially geometry.

Actually, has there been any major advance in mathematical theory in the last 100 years? 200?

[Dictum Mortuum]

Modern math isn't that modern. Most of it was figured out a long time ago, especially geometry.

Actually, has there been any major advance in mathematical theory in the last 100 years? 200?

Actually, as a CS MSc, I count theoretical computer science as mathematics.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Actually, as a CS MSc, I count theoretical computer science as mathematics.

I somehow doubt that knowledge will be particularly helpful in the medieval era. :smallamused:

[limejuicepowder]

Modern math isn't that modern. Most of it was figured out a long time ago, especially geometry.

Actually, has there been any major advance in mathematical theory in the last 100 years? 200?

Well...math in the last 100 years has advanced a lot, but the advancements are the type that only mathematicians would care about. To be more specific, starting in the late 1700's the field of mathematics advanced to the point that one person can't do everything, and specialization in specific things is needed. It's gotten to the point where some areas of study are so specific only a small handful of people in the whole world might know or understand a given concept.

However, I would throw Theories of Relativity and Special Relativity on the pile of very very important advancements.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well...math in the last 100 years has advanced a lot, but the advancements are the type that only mathematicians would care about. To be more specific, starting in the late 1700's the field of mathematics advanced to the point that one person can't do everything, and specialization in specific things is needed. It's gotten to the point where some areas of study are so specific only a small handful of people in the whole world might know or understand a given concept.

However, I would throw Theories of Relativity and Special Relativity on the pile of very very important advancements.

Not being a mathematician, I did not know that. I may have to look into it though. I'm geek enough that math entertains me.

I still contend that most of the math that would actually be useful in the medieval era was already ciphered by then. Unless of course you're going to try and recreate silicon valley a few centuries early. :smalltongue:

[only1doug]

I can't download anything on this machine (nintendo wii) and E-books rub me the wrong way anyway.

Thanks for the link anyway, though. :smallsmile:

I used to swear that I wouldn't switch to E-books, then i got a tablet and the free kindle app + baen free library, now I have copies of a whole bunch of books that I don't have to move into and out of the loft when I want to read them.

[Grundy]

The romans used lead because you could fold it over along the length of the pipe and seal it that way. Also its way easier than copper to work. Ceramic pipes were used for drains well into this century. Joints were sealed with oakum and lead. No reason you couldn't do water lines that way, too.
As far as math goes, bringing in geometry and algebra would really help most medieval towns. It might not be unheard of, but certainly it would be rare knowledge.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The romans used lead because you could fold it over along the length of the pipe and seal it that way. Also its way easier than copper to work. Ceramic pipes were used for drains well into this century. Joints were sealed with oakum and lead. No reason you couldn't do water lines that way, too.
As far as math goes, bringing in geometry and algebra would really help most medieval towns. It might not be unheard of, but certainly it would be rare knowledge.

Lead is right out. I don't care how easy it is to work, it's toxic.

Ceramic is a fine alternative, but a bit prone to breaking compared to copper.

On geometry and algebra: yeah, modern man definitely has a leg up on medieval villiagers in that area, at least amongst industrialized nations he does. That kind of knowledge could get you in good with nobility I'd bet. Especially if you've also got some business savvy.

[only1doug]

Lead is right out. I don't care how easy it is to work, it's toxic.


Which might be the most important information that you bring from the future.

[Mnemnosyne]

It seems to me that while I have little specific knowledge that would be useful, I might be able to help direct lines of inquiry toward useful subjects.

I don't know much about medicine, but simply by creating a microscope and leading people toward the research of microbes, cells, and such, I could get medical research started much earlier.

Sadly there are a lot of fields I don't know enough to even point in the right direction on; say oil. I know nothing of the geology involved in finding oil fields, or the engineering required to extract the oil safely, so I couldn't try to bring cheap energy to the masses centuries early. Although I might know just enough about electricity and generators to, with some help and research, construct a working dynamo.

I'd also probably come up with a bunch of stuff that is just plain wrong due to misremembering things or simply never having correctly learned stuff in the first place. I don't know how useful things like relativity would be, even if I knew all the math involved. You need timepieces of exceedingly high accuracy to even measure things of that nature, and I don't see any use for it in a medieval world. I'm not even sure what all the practical applications are in the real world, beyond the calculations needed for things like GPS.

[only1doug]

Sadly there are a lot of fields I don't know enough to even point in the right direction on; say oil. I know nothing of the geology involved in finding oil fields, or the engineering required to extract the oil safely, so I couldn't try to bring cheap energy to the masses centuries early. Although I might know just enough about electricity and generators to, with some help and research, construct a working dynamo.


Using renewable energy sources from the start would actually be an improvement, there is only a limited amout of oil available (although the absolute quantity is still quite high) Starting the industrial revolution with clean renewable energy sources would result in centuries of improvements of those sources and a much better world to live in.

[MesiDoomstalker]

If you know how to build a turbine, building a Wind Turbine or a hydroelectric plant is not that hard. Just connect the turbine to a fan that get hits by persistant wind or water currrent, boom energy. Of course, electricity is kind of worthless without something to apply it to, so thats a major roadblock. You'd have to come back with knowledge of how to build, or at least start building, things powered by electricity.

On lightbulbs, if I'm not mistaken the orginal light bulb was simply a looped Tungsten wire with a current ran through it, which heated the Tungsten, producing light. Throw some glass around it, and you have the bulb part.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you know how to build a turbine, building a Wind Turbine or a hydroelectric plant is not that hard. Just connect the turbine to a fan that get hits by persistant wind or water currrent, boom energy. Of course, electricity is kind of worthless without something to apply it to, so thats a major roadblock. You'd have to come back with knowledge of how to build, or at least start building, things powered by electricity.

On lightbulbs, if I'm not mistaken the orginal light bulb was simply a looped Tungsten wire with a current ran through it, which heated the Tungsten, producing light. Throw some glass around it, and you have the bulb part.

IIRC, I think the first lightbulbs were horse-hair strung between to metal holders in a glass bulb with nearly all the air vacuumed out.

If you can reproduce the ligthbulb alone, you make electricity a worth-while endeavor wherever it can be cheaply produced. Even the relatively crappy lightbulb Edison devised beats the living daylights out of candles.

[prufock]

It's an interesting idea. Here's how I think we would translate to D&D terms.

Race: Human, obviously.

Class: For most of us, Commoner or Expert would be the go-to class. We have no understanding of "magic," and most of us aren't trained well enough in combat, deception, infiltration, tracking and so on to have levels in PC classes or Adept. A fortunate few MIGHT have levels in Aristocrat or Warrior.

Skills: A total skill bonus of +5, means you can routinely succeed at a moderately difficult task, so you're fairly well trained. A +10 pretty much makes you an expert, and any higher than that puts you into master territory.

Most of us would have some ranks in skills that would be more or less useless in a D&D setting. Computer Use, Vehicles, Profession, irrelevant Knowledge types. Even those with Speak Language becomes useless in a fantasy setting, unless Elvish by some chance ends up being exactly like French or whatever.

Of the useful skills, we'd be most likely to have just a rank or two.

Combat: Let's face it, the majority of us are not combat trained. We might know how to shoot a .22 or something, but that isn't going to be too useful. We aren't really proficient with medieval weapons and armor.

Ability Scores:[/quote] It's easy to figure out Str scores by the rules, just by trying to dead lift as much as possible. Other scores are not so easy to do. Con can be checked by how long you can run and hold your breath. Reflex tests can check Dex. Int can vaguely reflect IQ, and Wis and Cha are pretty much impossible to test. Chances are, you have less than 25 point buy.

[b]Feats: You very probably have Skill Focus or one of the +2/+2 skill feats. Luckily, as a human, you get two feats, more if you have flaws. Unluckily, they are probably useless.

Level: All this in consideration, you are very likely level 1. If you have some advanced training, like a masters or PhD, you might be level 2-3. Beyond that you're looking only at highly-trained or very successful individuals, like police officers, soldiers, politicians, businessmen, influential scientists, celebrities, and so on.

Most of us would be screwed, unless we have some particular knowledge that would be of use. Engineers, scientists of various types, and so on would probably fare the best.

EDIT:

Even the relatively crappy lightbulb Edison devised beats the living daylights out of candles.
I see what you did there.

[limejuicepowder]

If you know how to build a turbine, building a Wind Turbine or a hydroelectric plant is not that hard. Just connect the turbine to a fan that get hits by persistant wind or water currrent, boom energy. Of course, electricity is kind of worthless without something to apply it to, so thats a major roadblock. You'd have to come back with knowledge of how to build, or at least start building, things powered by electricity.

On lightbulbs, if I'm not mistaken the orginal light bulb was simply a looped Tungsten wire with a current ran through it, which heated the Tungsten, producing light. Throw some glass around it, and you have the bulb part.

A spinning blade is energy, but how would you harness it? You could make a mill I suppose, but they already had those (well that's more later renaissance era). Generating actual electricity though at the very least is going to require wires, insulation, some kind of a battery/storage device for the energy, etc.

Even the blade though, that would take some know-how. Metallurgy is in it's infant stages; a blacksmith hammering out a massive piece of iron is all I can think of. Plus you'd need an axle, some kind of lubricant, and a structure to hold the thing. Because it's iron it would also start to rust in fairly short order.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it would really really hard, and take a very knowledgeable individual - with an awesome diplomacy check to convince the local lord who'd you'd need to fund it that you aren't just a lunatic.

[Kelb_Panthera]

A spinning blade is energy, but how would you harness it? You could make a mill I suppose, but they already had those (well that's more later renaissance era). Generating actual electricity though at the very least is going to require wires, insulation, some kind of a battery/storage device for the energy, etc.

Even the blade though, that would take some know-how. Metallurgy is in it's infant stages; a blacksmith hammering out a massive piece of iron is all I can think of. Plus you'd need an axle, some kind of lubricant, and a structure to hold the thing. Because it's iron it would also start to rust in fairly short order.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it would really really hard, and take a very knowledgeable individual - with an awesome diplomacy check to convince the local lord who'd you'd need to fund it that you aren't just a lunatic.

These constraints are exactly why you start with a water wheel driven turbine instead of wind driven one. Most medieval population centers were built on or near a river or some other source of water.

Insulation isn't hard, it's called wood. Rubber is better and doesn't burn as easily but it's not really available.

Wire isn't too difficult either, the wires in a turbine are pretty big, copper can be used, along side nickel. I'm taking some metalurgy back with me so between me and the blacksmith we'll figure something out. If nothing else I can show him how to make good steel and how to temper it so he'll have pretty decent regard for me before we move on to making electricity.

Infrastructure is the biggest hassle for electricity. Getting energy from the production plant on the river is a much bigger challenge than getting the production started. Those wires need to be insulated pretty close. Maybe a sheath of woven plants treated with laquer and sealed against the weather. Super high voltage is out of the question but the energy won't have to be transferred far enough for super-high voltage to be necessary anyway.

It wouldn't be pretty, or particularly safe (compared to modern plants) but it'd work.

By far the biggest challenge will be getting the necessary financial backing and resources. Diplomacy is one area I'm not so good in.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The romans used lead because you could fold it over along the length of the pipe and seal it that way. Also its way easier than copper to work. Ceramic pipes were used for drains well into this century. Joints were sealed with oakum and lead. No reason you couldn't do water lines that way, too.

The average Roman had a lifespan of 30 years. I'll give you three guesses why.

[Grundy]

I get your point about lead. Even for waste lines it'll put lead in the water downstream. I suppose if you could find tin and antimony you could solder your copper. Maybe a smith could make dies and you could extrude your pipe. Sounds sketchy though.
One thing electricity would be good for is electroplating. It doesn't require anything too fancy, but iirc it does use a fair amount of juice.

[Deophaun]

Meh, the electrical stuff wouldn't be that useful in a medieval setting anyway.
Not useful until your first lightning storm, anyway.

The average Roman had a lifespan of 30 years. I'll give you three guesses why.
Infant mortality.

[Grundy]

The average Roman had a lifespan of 30 years. I'll give you three guesses why.

1) Because they thought lead was medicine?
2) because they used lead as a preservative in food?
3) because their medicine was pretty poor in general?

Apparently, the water around Rome is high enough in calcium that a plaque formed on the pipes, so the water wasn't particularly high in lead, for all the good that did them.

[darni]

A lot of people here seem to think their knowledge would be irrelevant, but that's because they forget how many things that are commonplace today were not known 800 years ago.

It is true that you probably wouldn't be able to create a revolution in a field by yourself. But if you get into an influential position (counselor to some noble) you might get a lot done. How to get that influence? some basic geometry and arithmetic can probably make you a relevant person to help the rich people deal with money/land.

You think most relevant maths were already invented? some of them maybe, but the practical compact notation we use today (symbols like +, = , <, our numbering system, using letters as variables, or as points/lines in geometry) was mostly invented after the middle ages, so you would have an advantage there. Having a simpler method to solve problems allows also teaching more easily, so you could have an impact on educations (at least between those with access to education). So you could also find yourself well placed educating the children of the rich.

Once in a good place, you can probably promote a lot of changes in medicine. Washing hands when treating wounds, or on childbirth is a revolution. cleaning instruments (sheets, tools can be boiled in water) provides crude sterilization that is also a heavy improvement. You'll probably be able to tell with some common sense when superstition is being used as medical advice (even without having medical training yourself). Most of us know a lot of hygiene measures for preventing a lot of medical problems: washing hands before eating and after excreting, making sure food is well cooked, boiling water to kill bacteria, covering your nose to avoid airborne diseases. You could at least "invent" the toothbrush and improve dental health. You can tell sailors to eat lemons to avoid scurvy.

If that isn't enough revolution, you could promote improvements in general science. If you know the basics about the scientific method (bonus points if you know some probabilities & statistics), you could share that with sages and improve their effectiveness, even on fields you're not acquainted with. Even the basic idea of publishing+sharing science instead of keeping the secrets can have a profound impact on development. And for fields you have a rough idea, you can push people towards good ideas. I don't think I could build a printing press myself, but I probably can give a rough idea to some middle age artisans to fill the gaps and build one.

For those here who know how to build an electric generator and don't know what applications to use it for: wired telegraphs. You don't need a lot of power, you can use very crude posts and wires (and wire drawing techniques were drawn in the 9th century, and other techniques before), a crude switch, and an electromagnet based buzzer. That, together with a simple coding system (if you don't know Morse, you can't invent something similar) can produce a deep change in communications, even if it is not fully reliable.

Perhaps I'm an optimist, but I think I could do pretty well (at least as a teacher), as long as I find a way to get food at the beginning and avoid catching a nasty disease.

[Deophaun]

AIt is true that you probably wouldn't be able to create a revolution in a field by yourself. But if you get into an influential position (counselor to some noble) you might get a lot done.
And therein would lie a problem. You probably don't know the slightest bit about medieval etiquette, and you will have a very strange accent (perhaps even incomprehensible). You're going to need a way to prove yourself before seeing a noble so that they don't just dismiss you as the village idiot. Also, it's going to be hard to pass yourself off as learned if you don't know Latin.

[only1doug]

Insulation isn't hard, it's called wood. Rubber is better and doesn't burn as easily but it's not really available.

Wire isn't too difficult either, the wires in a turbine are pretty big, copper can be used, along side nickel. I'm taking some metalurgy back with me so between me and the blacksmith we'll figure something out. If nothing else I can show him how to make good steel and how to temper it so he'll have pretty decent regard for me before we move on to making electricity.


For a generator you will need close coils, wood is too bulky and rubber is probably harder to manipulate than you think. Silk is probably the best material available at the time.

A lot of this discussion is mirroring the technical discussions in the Grantville Gazette (http://www.grantvillegazette.com/departments/) (a web board dedicated to the 1632 series that has had some articles published in book form)

[Kelb_Panthera]

For a generator you will need close coils, wood is too bulky and rubber is probably harder to manipulate than you think. Silk is probably the best material available at the time.

A lot of this discussion is mirroring the technical discussions in the Grantville Gazette (http://www.grantvillegazette.com/departments/) (a web board dedicated to the 1632 series that has had some articles published in book form)

Rubber is largely unavailable, nevermind its workability.

Silk is painfully expensive to try and get enough to make large amounts of electrical insulation out of.

Wood is only as bulky as the results of carving it. It's also very cheap, depending on which part of europe you're in. It's not ideal, but it's at least feasable until better options become realistically available. Maybe switch to silk after the value of my "lightning magic"* is proven.

*I would never call it magic of any kind. I don't much care for the idea of being burned at the stake.

[Arbane]

And therein would lie a problem. You probably don't know the slightest bit about medieval etiquette, and you will have a very strange accent (perhaps even incomprehensible). You're going to need a way to prove yourself before seeing a noble so that they don't just dismiss you as the village idiot. Also, it's going to be hard to pass yourself off as learned if you don't know Latin.

Claim to be shipwrecked nobility from the far-off kingdom of "California"? :smallbiggrin: