Riffing: Metroid: other M [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-18, 11:55 AM

After reading the dialogue from Metroid fusion, I realized that allot of my most hated parts from Other M come strait from Fusion.

Its Directed by the same guy of Metroid other m. :smallsigh:

The fact Adam calls her "Lady" (How can it POSSIBLY be dignified? Its like calling a guy "Blackie". Its either Ironic or an insult.)

Samus merely SAYING how awesome Adam is. Not SHOWING

The stupid "The federation is EVIL" plot. This is so overdone that a dramatic twist would be: "And their actually pretty cool guys", which is what Prime did.

The cloning Metroids part (A special sector that gets destroyed with them inside)

The clones of the species that Samus has encountered before.

Adam sacrifices himself to save Samus.

More linear gameplay

Nearly the exact same plot as Metroid other M (Which makes it stupid AGAIN in hindsight. Samus fell for the same trick TWICE). And makes Sakamoto even more of a doofus. He REUSED ALMOST THE EXACT SAME PLOT!

I guess all of that was less noticeable because there was less of it, and the gameplay was better.

So yeah. Metroid other M was like Metroid Fusion: HEAVY.

Moral of the story? Keep Yoshio Sakamoto as far away from the franchise as possible.

KillingAScarab

2012-09-18, 04:32 PM

Well, Scowling Dragon, to each their own. I found a lot of fun to be had with Metroid Fusion, and I liked the plot of it. Your exposure to the dialog only means you may not have perceived the full context to go with it. For example, to you anything which is said about Adam might warrant a flashback, but to me Samus was riding an elevator down (sometimes up) to the next X-infested area; a quick bit of text was acceptable but a full flashback every single time would not have been. I didn't want to watch a Hideo Kojima movie on my original GBA without a backlight.

I will agree that allowing both Fusion and Other M to exist unchanged in the same timeline would be a mistake, but to me Other M was a retcon of Fusion. Fusion contained the following piece of soliloquy (http://metroid.retropixel.net/metroid4/transcript.php):

Following the commands of this blunt, computerized CO is something I have to bear, as it was a condition of my taking the ship. For someone who dislikes taking orders, this is the second time I've found myself having to do so. It makes me recall my other CO...

Other M contradicts this with the claim it is the second time Samus was taking orders. Plus, if Samus had been through a "Federation has a secret plan" scenario already, she wouldn't have had any reason to trust them, especially if they have a cell from a metroid, as the plot to Fusion hinged upon.

If you find yourself wanting something of the 2D variety, I believe there's a demo available for Another Metroid 2 Remake (http://metroid2remake.blogspot.com/). The original game had no story, other than "go exterminate the metroids."

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-19, 01:13 AM

No, I LIKE story. Just not BAD story.

KillingAScarab

2012-09-21, 01:55 AM

It occurs to me I was not quite accurate in my assessment of Metroid 2's story. There was this other one, small, almost insignificant thing. Samus finds this metroid hatchling at the end.

...I wonder if the creator is taking suggestions for alternate endings.

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-21, 02:37 AM

MLai

2012-09-21, 05:51 AM

Question. Is Yoshio Sakamoto the creator of Metroid? If not, then which game is the one from which he took charge of the franchise?

I watched that 2-hrs-long riffing of MOM, even though the 10-mins-long one was much funnier and more watchable, because the former gave me the Cinema Mode in its entirety (I've never played the game). I wanted to see just how much of a misogynistic turd this is.

My impression: This is actually a story with typical anime patriarchal conventions, and will easily slip under the radar of an audience mind-saturated by anime/manga. What made it exceptional enough so as to cause our ire while most anime do not, are the following...

(1) The actress' wooden acting (as required by the director).
(2) The franchise's actual main audience is American, not Japanese.
(3) It's Samus Aran.

When Sakamoto said "I never intended Samus to be like what you Americans imagined; this is my true vision of Samus," I can believe him. He simply should have never been in charge of a franchise that is popular in America.

Pie Guy

2012-09-21, 06:21 AM

Bro, watching anime doesn't inherently make you sexist.

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-21, 06:34 AM

The funny part is that a game made by a bunch of monkeys in Texas ended up being much more awesome and character developing whilst staying true to the formula.

And Yoshio is the creator of Metroid and Super Metroid. Making him the George lucas of metroid. He simply couldn't shovel the crap he wanted before because of tech limitations.

And even in terms of character design the game is bloody sexist. Zero Suit samus in Metroid other M: WEARS HIGH HEELS. Thats just the game in a nutshell:

Samus wears high heels whilst in combat.

And yes, anime does not automatically make you sexist.

KillingAScarab

2012-09-21, 12:44 PM

Question. Is Yoshio Sakamoto the creator of Metroid? If not, then which game is the one from which he took charge of the franchise?Gunpei Yokoi (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,47438/), the producer of Metroid (http://www.mobygames.com/game/metroid), Metroid II (http://www.mobygames.com/game/metroid-ii-return-of-samus), Kid Icarus and creator of the Game Boy, Game & Watch and Virtual Boy died in 1997. Yoshio Sakamoto (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,74231/) was the director for Metroid (and the remake (http://www.mobygames.com/game/metroid-zero-mission)), Super Metroid (http://www.mobygames.com/game/super-metroid), and "chief director" on Metroid Fusion (http://www.mobygames.com/game/metroid-fusion). I have had quite a bit of difficulty trying to get down to how much of Metroid should be credited to each. I find it is also difficult to untangle how much influence Team Ninja/D-Rocket had on any of the sexism claims, since Samus in a space-bikini had been around since the first game, the creators all considered making the main character to be a woman to be a joke thrown in at the last minute, and Zero Suit Samus predated Other M.

I watched that 2-hrs-long riffing of MOM, even though the 10-mins-long one was much funnier and more watchable, because the former gave me the Cinema Mode in its entirety (I've never played the game). I wanted to see just how much of a misogynistic turd this is.I could have saved you the trouble by telling you to imagine a woman saying "baby" instead of "hatchling" thirty times in a row. I have difficulty seeing why they changed it for that one game for any reason other than to attempt to have motherhood as a theme, but the logic just isn't there to make it work. The story needs an overhaul, but it's my opinion the gameplay is fine.

My impression: This is actually a story with typical anime patriarchal conventions, and will easily slip under the radar of an audience mind-saturated by anime/manga. What made it exceptional enough so as to cause our ire while most anime do not, are the following...

(1) The actress' wooden acting (as required by the director).
(2) The franchise's actual main audience is American, not Japanese.
(3) It's Samus Aran.

When Sakamoto said "I never intended Samus to be like what you Americans imagined; this is my true vision of Samus," I can believe him. He simply should have never been in charge of a franchise that is popular in America.He was involved from the beginning (although absent for Metroid II) and he was even involved (when Gunpei Yokoi was not) on Super Metroid, which is arguably the most popular game in the series.

The funny part is that a game made by a bunch of monkeys in Texas ended up being much more awesome and character developing whilst staying true to the formula.Metroid Prime games offered no character development. By the end of each game, Samus didn't seem to offer any evidence of being anything other than exactly the same person who she was when the game began. They were shooters with a faceless and silent protagonist (though I appreciate Jennifer Hale's contributions). That's the reason the Rifftrax thing features the, "Don't ever let the audience know what you're thinking, feeling or doing" quote and it is funny.

Actually, one of the reasons why I liked Fusion is because, as I interpret it, Samus becomes the hunter. Prime had that whole "Metroid means 'hunter' in Chozo" thing going on and she in some sense becomes a metroid.

And even in terms of character design the game is bloody sexist. Zero Suit samus in Metroid other M: WEARS HIGH HEELS. Thats just the game in a nutshell:

Samus wears high heels whilst in combat.I would argue she does not. It has pretty much been a transformation between Zero Suit and Power Suit every time I have seen the transition (though I haven't played Zero Mission). One is not simply underneath the other, though I will admit that in Other M it appears much more fluid with the "concentration makes the Power Suit go" mechanic. Is the high heel on the Zero Suit a dumb idea? Despite an assurance (http://www.metroid-database.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92877&sid=efd659b182038b276471abaa393788bb#p92877) people can run in them, I think the answer is yes.

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-21, 02:39 PM

So the Chozos name for "Hunter" is the same as Bioweapon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yokV_IY3k2I) designed to destroy X parasites? Wow. Thats....very convenient.

Please watch the above link to understand what Im saying.

We learned about Samus through her body movements. How she reacted, how she moved. We didn't learn anything about her interests or such. But we learned what kind of person she is through her movements and behavior and most importantly ACTIONS. By telling us thats shes a air-headed, weak willed ditz it greatly clashes with her actions, disconnecting gameplay from story.

Its a thing were we experience Samus, like a female Gordon Freedman. Movies have SHOW don't tell. Games have DO don't show/ tell.

The Zero suit is skimpy spandex yes (One that makes sense but nonetheless). But the re-design takes it to a whole new level. They attach HIGH HEELS to the bounty hunter. Its sexist. And the pathetic airheaded way she acts around Adam (Not to mention the idiotic million other things) is also incredibly degrading. It makes it look out to be a abusive relationship (http://moonbase.rydia.net/mental/blog/gaming/metroid-other-m-the-elephant/article.html).

In fact samus in general was redesigned. Her face looks weaker and more fragile, whilst the older version was more stoic.

I also hate the "Powersuit runs on willpower" Thing. Its kind of a goofy concept (Sounds like something from a bad anime) and doesn't mesh with gameplay at all. What are the extra energy packs? Bottled willpower? Why can't she just WILL extra weapons on? How could an X-Parasite use her armor then? Do they all have strong senses of will? Can it even be detached from samus? Can't it just dissipate when she wills it?

Drascin

2012-09-21, 02:57 PM

So the Chozos name for "Hunter" is the same as Bioweapon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yokV_IY3k2I) designed to destroy X parasites? Wow. Thats....very convenient.[/URL].

I actually am pretty sure "metroid" was stated to be the Chozo word for "ultimate warrior". I figure they gave that name to the bioweapons because hell, they were designed to save them from a thing that was kicking the asses of the entire Chozo empire and where absically their last hope, a brutal and nearly goddamn indestructible race of monsters made out of desperation.

You don't name that kind of thing "A-21" if you're a species that has even a hint of literature in your soul!

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-21, 03:04 PM

Drascin

2012-09-21, 03:30 PM

I foresaw that argument;

So why isn't Samus saying "Hunter"?

She knows Chozo. Linguistically people should have called the metroids "Hunters". Its like speaking in english every word except for "Cow". Which you say in german.

Or, you know. Liguistic borrowing, taking the name for something directly from the only people who have interacted with the object in question without translating it from their language. Not exactly a very unusual concept even in our little blue planet alone. A large percentage of loan words are kind of precisely that very thing. And Samus calls them metroids because, surprise, it'd sound horribly awkward in english dialogue to keep calling them Ultimate Warriors - especially while every other character, who know Chozo, would still call them metroids.

Also, the name was set in the very first game, before anyone actually thought up the backstory for the things. After that, they weren't going to change it.

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-21, 03:33 PM

Xondoure

2012-09-21, 03:42 PM

Samus ALSO calls them Metroids. And since she was the one who gave the Metroid to the feds, she should have translated and called them "Hunters". Since its specifically "Hunters" not "Ultimante warrior".

Which is exactly my point: Why crowbar this into the game?

Because unless they all speak english (oh wait japanese) what we're seeing is a translation. And not translating Metroid doesn't mean it can't have meaning underneath.

http://xkcd.com/890/

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-21, 03:45 PM

Whatever I guess. I just find it kind of hamfisted. "Now she's LITERALLY the hunter!"

KillingAScarab

2012-09-21, 04:22 PM

I actually am pretty sure "metroid" was stated to be the Chozo word for "ultimate warrior".Hmm... perhaps I misremembered, then. I might have to look it up later.

But now I'm plagued by a question. If "metroid" is "ultimate warrior" is Samus Aran then Hulk Hogan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXNvusFPsBQ)? Warning: absolutely bonkers wrestling posturing.

MLai

2012-09-22, 12:23 AM

Bro, watching anime doesn't inherently make you sexist.
Come on, I didn't say that.
What I meant was that anime is made in Japan, a country whose social rules are different from ours, and from our standpoint is more sexist than ourselves. We watch anime not because we like sexist media, but because nothing does giant space robots (and etc) better than anime. So, we let the occasional Japanese misogyny pass over with a "meh" and go back to concentrating on the giant robots.
After a few years of exposure to that, yes when you watch MOM cinema mode this can go under your saturated radar. Your subconsious tells you "it's anime", so you just let it wash over.
Which goes back to why I guessed at the reasons it didn't wash over: Because like Mario and Link, we don't see Samus as anime, or a Japanese-only property. For Mario, it's because of his long history in the USA and because he's had American TV shows and movies, with portrayal by Western actors. Link... he had the godawful cartoon that's undeniably American (it's lip-synced for English). Samus, because of her appearances in the "American" gaming genre the FPS.

Its a thing where we experience Samus, like a female Gordon Freedman. Movies have SHOW don't tell. Games have DO don't show/ tell.
+1.
This is what Metroid inadvertently created. First thru technical limitations, then thru outsourcing to an American dev. I can see Sakamoto being completely oblivious to this, just as I can see Japanese game devs not considering the Western market POV when making their games.

Samus in a space-bikini had been around since the first game, the creators all considered making the main character to be a woman to be a joke thrown in at the last minute,
This explains a lot. If the creator didn't intentionally set out to make a strong female protag, but merely made Samus female as a joke. And then afterwards, when he actually was forced to write about the female protag as a serious storyline... this is what he came up with. Not Metroid: The Samus Show, but Metroid: Let Me Tell You About The Awesome Man Commander Through Samus His Little *****.

Is the high heel on the Zero Suit a dumb idea? Despite an assurance people can run in them, I think the answer is yes.
What got me was how much shorter she becomes when out of armour, even with heels. She looks like a child next to the black dude. But in armour, suddenly comparable height.
I thought her armour is a form-fitting shell? How can she grow 15 inches? The armour's joints wouldn't match up with her body's.

What are the extra energy packs? Bottled willpower?
I'm glad I wasn't drinking soda while reading your post. xD

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-22, 06:47 AM

+1.
This is what Metroid inadvertently created. First thru technical limitations, then thru outsourcing to an American dev. I can see Sakamoto being completely oblivious to this, just as I can see Japanese game devs not considering the Western market POV when making their games.

This is because I think western developers UNDERSTAND video games better then the Japanese.

Example? JRPG VS RPG. In fact it isn't even JRPG its more like A movie with occasional bursts of combat. So more like MWOBOC.

There is no role-playing. You do not PLAY a ROLE. The story is dictated to you, and the combat has MASSIVE disconnects between whats going on. And in attempts to make the stories "original" they end up making them stupidly convoluted.

Its alright, but it doesn't take advantage of what videogames offer as a medium.

And its not like stories where you are silent can't have engaging narratives. Half life, Metroid Prime Series, and Portal all have silent protagonists and all (In my opinion) are great examples of gaming narratives.

What Samus began as (A throwaway thing) doesn't change what she became. She became a strong female character that doesn't shout "GRRL PWR!"

Edit:

And the Plot of M:oM actually makes allot of sense:

A distraught Samus aran joins the federation army after loosing her parents for the second time.

She joins the command of a power obsessed commander named adam.

Attaching to the closest authority figure she can see, Samus desperately wants approval of her authority figure that she latches onto because of distress. A part of her KNOWS that he is a jackass but her mind is in a haze, and is kept that way by Adam.

Adam is a power hungry sociopath who sees everything as tools and demands power. He treats samus like a joke, and is secretly jealous of her accomplishments. So he insults her for being a woman.

Samus attempts to see this unique treatment as a form of kinship.

We know that Samus doesn't like his brother (From the picture) but when he needs to kill him, Samus wants to gain his trust by saving him.

Merely because she leaves his command, Adam sees that as an insult. He demands that she be under his heel.

Once on the :smallsigh: "Bottle ship" a part of samus enjoys being dominated by Adam:

"Having received mission orders from adam, I felt confused and strangely exhilarated at the unexpected turn of events"

Essentially Read this whole thing (http://moonbase.rydia.net/mental/blog/gaming/metroid-other-m-the-elephant/article.html). It points out that MOM isn't actualy nonsensical. Its in fact a story of abuse.

MLai

2012-09-22, 08:10 AM

Oh I agree, the story makes perfect (if unintentional) sense. And you can't even say it's OOC, because we don't know enough of Samus' background. She may have compartmentalized Adam enough, that she's strong-willed and independent except when he's in the picture.

Doesn't mean we have to like it. :smallmad:

You know what was my biggest disappointment when I was a kid watching Captain N: Game Master? Lack of Samus Aran, not even appearing as a one-episode cameo. They had Mother Brain as the BBEG, they had Kid Icarus, they even had KING HIPPO(?!?)... but Samus never shows up.

I watched the entire run hoping to see Samus... :smallfrown:

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-22, 09:13 AM

You wanted Samus in CAPTAIN N?

From the standards of the show she probably would be a girl who constantly runs after Kevin....Actualy.....HOLY ****! I ****ING CALLED IT:

From Wiki:

Samus was also a semi-regular character in the Captain N: The Game Master comic books, published as part of the Nintendo Comics System. In these stories, Samus has romantic feelings for Kevin Keene, the main character, despite his own affections for another woman, Princess Lana. However, as she states in the story "Breakout", Samus prefers to win Kevin’s affections fairly.

edit:
Also shes greedy and money hungry:

In the Captain N: The Game Master comics, Samus is depicted as brash and money-hungry

So yeah. Thank god for the head writer never hearing of samus before (Which shows the writing level on the show)

Double edit:

Also a great X-Ray picture of samus in her suit.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110906100255/metroid/images/7/7a/Samus_PD.jpg

MLai

2012-09-22, 09:57 AM

Ha, in my imagination I always pictured Samus as a no-nonsense saboteur going around in MB's hideout wrecking ***t. The idea that she could be a brash money-hungry cougar lusting after some high school hiney... I've never known such comics exist until you just told me.

OMG nostalgia trip! The Nintendo Power Samus! I totally saved that pic, thanks. That's the Samus I always remembered, not the current blonde 5'3" Baywatch babe on heels.

I never knew NP Samus is wrestler-sized, though. I wonder who that artist was?

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-22, 11:15 AM

You know whats weird? That picture makes the zero suit work!

It doesn't feel like fanservice. It feels like a integral part of the suit! I wish thats the direction people took her suit in.

Also she has chozo DNA so it could be very likely that it was what altered her physiology.

I always imagined Samus as a quiet person that tends listens to rock music on her free time. Being alone for long stretches of time, rock music would really liven things up.

And thats the great thing:

We don't know who samus is like, but we know WHAT samus is like.

We don't know her interests, mannerisms and personal interests, but we know what kind of person she is.

She isn't cold hearted. She visibly reacts sadly to the sight of dead Federation soldiers. She can't bring herself to murder a helpless Metroid, and does the right thing and gives it up for analysis (Until the Feds clone it- TWICE).

Thats the thing about her: We know the inportant stuff about her, and make up her mannerisms ourselves.

But she is tough, and is VERY capable of spending long periods of time alone.

MCerberus

2012-09-22, 11:33 AM

Wait, so we have a creator who doesn't see the poor reception for their true vision as they claim they've always had? And the alterations from other people is what made people interested in the first place?

Can we just call this a case of Lucas Syndrome and move on?

MLai

2012-09-22, 11:34 AM

We do know she likes to experiment with her hair. In a single game it goes from shaggy brown to flowing green.

I guess nowadays she's trying out blonde. And being one foot shorter.

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-22, 12:21 PM

Also the Metroid Manga is as unsubtle as a brick to the face.

It seems so weird....Japan seems to handle Metroid so....hamhandedly.

Whats with you japan! Your supposed to be all subtle and introspective! Its AMERICA that should be loud and obnoxious!

KillingAScarab

2012-09-22, 12:43 PM

This is because I think western developers UNDERSTAND video games better then the Japanese.I disagree with this. I think there are plenty of examples of Japanese developers successfully creating video games (rather than creating financially successful video games).

She became a strong female character that doesn't shout "GRRL PWR!"By any chance have you been reading any of "the strong female characters (http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=336)" comic strips? :)

And the Plot of M:oM actually makes allot of sense:Yes, but that's not the interpretation I would go with. To elaborate, I see it more as an attempt at intrigue which requires Samus to be a weaker character in order to work. It also leaves plot threads unfinished (the assassin).

A distraught Samus aran joins the federation army after loosing her parents for the second time.See, that right there? This is where the disappointment starts. Other M completely disregarded that she was raised and trained by Chozo and they gave her the power suit. She just has it and joins the Federation army/space navy. One of the biggest let-downs was the failed promise to tell "the story of Samus." Instead we were given the story of Adam. "Marketing" is to blame for that, though.

For most people, the worst of it was the Ridley scene, partially because it is so difficult to reconcile and partially because it draws entirely from the manga (http://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Metroid_%28manga%29) which Nintendo commissioned before Prime and Fusion were released. That manga shows Ridley as being responsible for her parents' deaths and being the source of Samus developing post traumatic stress disorder (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder). It also shows Old Bird (http://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Old_Bird), the named Chozo from the Nintendo Power comic. I understand Sakamoto had editorial privilege on the manga, too. There was even another named Chozo, Gray Voice (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Grey_Voice), in the manga. It is thought both of them appear in Zero Mission. These were her father figures, but Old Bird isn't acknowledged to still be alive. Things were taken from a piece of media not available in the United States (the largest audience for Metroid), but even though the company had input on what was in the manga, they didn't use all of it.

OMG nostalgia trip! The Nintendo Power Samus! I totally saved that pic, thanks. That's the Samus I always remembered, not the current blonde 5'3" Baywatch babe on heels.I am 100% in agreement. There were silly things in that comic, but it was a disappointment to finish Super Metroid and find she did not have purple hair. I think the instruction booklet to Metroid II had similar stats, but those were for her in the power suit, which would add to the height and weight. That cut-away is also one of my favorite depictions because in nearly all other illustrations of the power suit the shoulders look to be too far apart to actually allow a human being to fit inside. Other M, in my opinion, has the most realistic 3D model of the power suit.

You know whats weird? That picture makes the zero suit work!It wasn't the Zero Suit, though. It was just a plain leotard which Samus wore the pieces of the power suit over. In the Nintendo Power comic, at least, the power suit wasn't any sort of transformation. In Fusion the suit had to be surgically removed from her. In the manga it disappears during a PTSD episode. Other M and even Corruption have it willed into existence from the Zero Suit.

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-22, 01:10 PM

I disagree with this. I think there are plenty of examples of Japanese developers successfully creating video games (rather than creating financially successful video games).

Yes, but Im talking about taking advantage of what videogames can offer as an artform. I haven't seen many japanease games that take advantage of this.

By any chance have you been reading any of "the strong female characters (http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=336)" comic strips? :)

Nah. But I just hate the type of character.

See, that right there? This is where the disappointment starts. Other M completely disregarded that she was raised and trained by Chozo and they gave her the power suit. She just has it and joins the Federation army/space navy. One of the biggest let-downs was the failed promise to tell "the story of Samus." Instead we were given the story of Adam. "Marketing" is to blame for that, though.

Thats what the director sees is "Samuses story". The only games that spend more time on Samus with the chozo where the games without him at the helm (Past Super metroid)

For most people, the worst of it was the Ridley scene, partially because it is so difficult to reconcile and partially because it draws entirely from the manga (http://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Metroid_%28manga%29) which Nintendo commissioned before Prime and Fusion were released.

That Manga just doesn't seem right in my opinion. It just feels off.

Other M, in my opinion, has the most realistic 3D model of the power suit.

Actually I think the basic form of Primes Power suit looks best.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100215034858/metroid/images/2/24/Power_Suit_concept_art.jpg

It wasn't the Zero Suit, though. It was just a plain leotard which Samus wore the pieces of the power suit over. In the Nintendo Power comic, at least, the power suit wasn't any sort of transformation. In Fusion the suit had to be surgically removed from her. In the manga it disappears during a PTSD episode. Other M and even Corruption have it willed into existence from the Zero Suit.

Metroid continuity is a mess. That makes me sad.

KillingAScarab

2012-09-22, 04:28 PM

Yes, but Im talking about taking advantage of what videogames can offer as an artform. I haven't seen many japanease games that take advantage of this.Well, I'm not trying to pin down any statistical analysis right now, but I have a hunch there are plenty of poorly made video games out there by non-Japanese developers. Superman 64... Big Rigs... hmm... not really something I want to focus on.

Actually I think the basic form of Primes Power suit looks best.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100215034858/metroid/images/2/24/Power_Suit_concept_art.jpgTo each their own. I really liked the the look of that suit, but for me, while I can suspend disbelief about the incredible acrobatics and such, the mobility she should/shouldn't have in her arms bugs me a bit.

I'll preface this by saying if anyone else decides to look into this matter, be aware of the likely Google search results.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo7h8por211qb1tgko1_250.jpg (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439949&page=4)

The Nintendo Power image you posted earlier shows you where her shoulders might be... this can vary a bit according to body type. I came across this illustration of body shapes (http://ninasquirrelly.deviantart.com/art/12-realistic-woman-body-shape-chart-301110737) while trying to figure out how wide her shoulders could possibly become. Part of the issue, of course, is which version of the suit. I like the Other M version because there's a bit more space (http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/e/e1/Power_Suit_Other_M_intro.png) under the armpit. The chest piece is in the way (http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/6/65/Unused_Powersuit.jpg) of crossing arms over, but it looks a bit more believable to me when she's standing around other people (http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/2/28/07th_Platoon_Power_Suit_Samus.png) that she can just put her arms down. They don't do anything crazy in Other M's illustrations, like with this pose (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120618225013/metroid/images/3/33/Samus_Varia_Suit_Versus_Warrior_Ing_HD_Poster_Tril ogy_Echoes_Render.jpg) of Samus for Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. Consider her Dark Suit (http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/metroid-prime/6148/favorite-metroid-prime-suit/509309/) in that game, as well. With normal proportions, I think this costume (http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs42/i/2009/117/2/3/Samus_by_Fatala.jpg) is closer to how it would truly work. A much smaller range of motion, like the Nintendo Power comic. Then there are things like the PED Suit. This image of it, I can understand, because the sides of it should be forcing her arms up higher. This image (http://cf.shacknews.com/images/sshots/Screenshot/7589/7589_4689a89daed1f.sssd.jpg) of the Varia suit earlier in Corruption makes me think her shoulders should be behind the jets on her back. But where is the joint in this image (http://metroid.retropixel.net/features/feature_life_lessons_02.jpg)? Poses like this (http://www.metroid-database.com/headlines/f4fgravity.jpg), shouldn't be possible unless her shoulder is in the "bulb," right? Other M seems to have avoided (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/Zero_Suit_Samus_Other_M.png) that (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101009184943/metroid/images/1/1e/Zero_Suit_Samus_Varia_Materialisation.png).

Metroid continuity is a mess. That makes me sad.It could be worse. It could be The Legend of Zelda's continuity, now that Nintendo claims that there actually is an all-inclusive one. Aside from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, plus Wind Waker and its spin-offs, it didn't really need it.

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-22, 04:43 PM

Well, I'm not trying to pin down any statistical analysis right now, but I have a hunch there are plenty of poorly made video games out there by non-Japanese developers. Superman 64... Big Rigs... hmm... not really something I want to focus on.

100% yes. I mean that there are more games by western developers that take advantage of Videogames as a unique form of storytelling.

To each their own.

True. I just find the other M suit ugly. I care less for proper autonomy when it comes to cool mech suits.

I really liked the the look of that suit, but for me, while I can suspend disbelief about the incredible acrobatics and such, the mobility she should/shouldn't have in her arms bugs me a bit.

Well, she pulls off more acrobatics in MOM so whatevs.

I'll preface this by saying if anyone else decides to look into this matter, be aware of the likely Google search results.

That happens with every character ever unfortunately.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo7h8por211qb1tgko1_250.jpg (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439949&page=4)

The Nintendo Power image you posted earlier shows you where her shoulders might be... this can vary a bit according to body type. I came across this illustration of body shapes (http://ninasquirrelly.deviantart.com/art/12-realistic-woman-body-shape-chart-301110737) while trying to figure out how wide her shoulders could possibly become. Part of the issue, of course, is which version of the suit. I like the Other M version because there's a bit more space (http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/e/e1/Power_Suit_Other_M_intro.png) under the armpit. The chest piece is in the way (http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/6/65/Unused_Powersuit.jpg) of crossing arms over, but it looks a bit more believable to me when she's standing around other people (http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/2/28/07th_Platoon_Power_Suit_Samus.png) that she can just put her arms down. They don't do anything crazy in Other M's illustrations, like with this pose (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120618225013/metroid/images/3/33/Samus_Varia_Suit_Versus_Warrior_Ing_HD_Poster_Tril ogy_Echoes_Render.jpg) of Samus for Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. Consider her Dark Suit (http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/metroid-prime/6148/favorite-metroid-prime-suit/509309/) in that game, as well. With normal proportions, I think this costume (http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs42/i/2009/117/2/3/Samus_by_Fatala.jpg) is closer to how it would truly work. A much smaller range of motion, like the Nintendo Power comic. Then there are things like the PED Suit. This image of it, I can understand, because the sides of it should be forcing her arms up higher. This image (http://cf.shacknews.com/images/sshots/Screenshot/7589/7589_4689a89daed1f.sssd.jpg) of the Varia suit earlier in Corruption makes me think her shoulders should be behind the jets on her back. But where is the joint in this image (http://metroid.retropixel.net/features/feature_life_lessons_02.jpg)? Poses like this (http://www.metroid-database.com/headlines/f4fgravity.jpg), shouldn't be possible unless her shoulder is in the "bulb," right? Other M seems to have avoided (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/Zero_Suit_Samus_Other_M.png) that (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101009184943/metroid/images/1/1e/Zero_Suit_Samus_Varia_Materialisation.png).

The more you know! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rhQc666Sg)

It could be worse. It could be The Legend of Zelda's continuity, now that Nintendo claims that there actually is an all-inclusive one. Aside from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, plus Wind Waker and its spin-offs, it didn't really need it.

True. But Samus has easier continuity to have the potential for keeping track off.

chiasaur11

2012-09-22, 05:45 PM

I've actually read the Captain N comics, and you know what?

They're halfway decent where Samus is concerned!

Samus is shown, primarily, as the toughest person alive. Even in an all ages comic. One issue has her sent to prison on trumped up charges. The same prison she'd sent a lot of perps to. They delight in the opportunity.

For about a minute. Then Samus, sans suit, shows the lot of them the meaning of the word "hurt". Later, she busts out using Kraid as a decoy. As she explains it

"A month in solitary, or a month in the hospital. Your choice."

Yes, she likes money. She's a bounty hunter. She's doing the right thing, but when the right thing has an option with piles of cash attached, that's the go to. And she likes Captain N, but that's because he's one of the only people who can keep up. Issue that puts the most emphasis on that has her meeting a grim dystopian future version of the Captain with another foot or two of height and a lot of stubble who runs the last planet standing against Mother Brain. Which is more understandable.

Comic also gives a little backstory about Samus working for the Federation. First she worked for the G-Fed police. One person in a million qualifies. She passed with flying colors.

They've got a special ops unit. The hunters. Remember the odds of a random person being good enough for the space police?

Take those, only replace random civilian with experienced Space Police officer. For those who are bad at math, that's one in a trillion who's good enough. That's less likely than qualifying for the Space Marines in 40K.

Samus was the youngest person ever to join. Then, eventually, she got too good for them. She quit and went freelance. Vanished into the Space Underground. Today, still wanted dead by the space pirates, she survives as a soldier of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find her, maybe you can hire Samus Aran.

MCerberus

2012-09-22, 06:03 PM

So what you're saying is that Samus pities* the foo**

*beats to near-death
**everyone

Scowling Dragon

2012-09-22, 06:07 PM

MLai

2012-09-22, 07:53 PM

Issue that puts the most emphasis on that has her meeting a grim dystopian future version of the Captain with another foot or two of height and a lot of stubble who runs the last planet standing against Mother Brain. Which is more understandable.
I'd be comfortable with that if I saw that as a kid.
Because there's just such a disparity in power and mental fortitude, between what I imagined as Samus and what I saw as the Saturday morning idiot-ball-juggling Captain N team.

Still. Samus works better as a mystery.
Her hair certainly is. Ha, I forgot about the purple phase.
Too bad she settled for blonde.
Must be what Adam likes.

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/50304/2012/02/Samus-Drawing.png
Are Old Bird and Grey Voice... the same gender, by any chance? LOL.

http://sickr.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/metroid_samus.jpg
I don't know where this artwork is from (I don't know if the artist is Jpnese or Western, but I think it's official), but the armour's proportions look best in this pic compared to any that I've seen.
Except for the hornet waist, but that's always been a feature of Samus' design even from the NES manual. Even before I knew her gender, just by looking at the proportions of the armour illustrated in the NES manual I knew that the person inside couldn't be a buff gnarly American dude. It had to be a slim young Asian hero like Keith in Voltron.

chiasaur11

2012-09-22, 08:24 PM

That sounds much better. Still has elements I dislike but STILL.

Still a better love story then twilight M:OM, but so is sticking your hand up your mouth.

Still. Samus works better as a mystery. Like he Chozo, I imagine her to be not very concerned with earthly matters.

It IS an aspect the stories ALWAYS overlook. She was raised by essentially space elf druids that are highly spiritual. Her outlook on life must be very different as a result from growing up with spiritual parents.

She was also raised as a warrior.

the most we ever got was this from zero mission:

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/50304/2012/02/Samus-Drawing.png

Well, the Prime games have a bit of it with 1.

She's going back home, and it's a mess.

My favorite bits, though, are in 2. She takes a job from the Federation. Finishes it. And then she sticks around and singlehandedly wins a war because she's got nothing better to do.

Then, after victory, when a precursor species, equal to the Chozo, has its surviving members bow in respect, she walks out with barely a wave.

Samus treats the destruction of a planet the same way most of us would treat changing a flat tire.

3 hints she's got friends in the business (even though most of the ones we meet in the game die), and she cares about them.

Lot of little hints throughout the games of a character, and nothing that jibes with Other M.

(Including the fact Samus has a burning, genocidal hatred for Space Pirates. Orphaning her is probably the dumbest thing they ever did.)

MLai

2012-09-22, 10:03 PM

Then, after victory, when a precursor species, equal to the Chozo, has its surviving members bow in respect, she walks out with barely a wave.
3 hints she's got friends in the business (even though most of the ones we meet in the game die), and she cares about them.
The one female protag character from Jpnese media that closely resembles that vision of Samus, that I know of, is this lady:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/GuardianoftheSacredSpiritDVD.jpg

In fact, if you just put her in the Chozo armour, and teach her how to shoot lasers, I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference.
(If your impression of true Samus is the Nintendo Power lady, that is.)

Edit: Oh, and Moribito is the way the theme of Motherhood should be done.

KillingAScarab

2012-09-22, 10:26 PM

Vanished into the Space Underground. Today, still wanted dead by the space pirates, she survives as a soldier of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find her, maybe you can hire Samus Aran.Thank you for the wonderful A-Team reference.

http://sickr.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/metroid_samus.jpg
I don't know where this artwork is from (I don't know if the artist is Jpnese or Western, but I think it's official), but the armour's proportions look best in this pic compared to any that I've seen.No, not official to my knowledge. The color saturation, hues used and especially the black visor reminds me heavily of the instruction manual for Metroid II. Here's a picture (http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/c/ca/M2_032.JPG) from it.

Well, the Prime games have a bit of it with 1.

She's going back home, and it's a mess.Tallon IV wasn't home. Her home with the Chozo was Zebes. I can see why you might confuse them. The Chozo records there sure talk about "the Hatchling" quite often, but that's because the Chozo saw into the future and saw Samus coming to Tallon IV.

My favorite bits, though, are in 2. She takes a job from the Federation. Finishes it. And then she sticks around and singlehandedly wins a war because she's got nothing better to do.

Then, after victory, when a precursor species, equal to the Chozo, has its surviving members bow in respect, she walks out with barely a wave.Well... her ship crashed and she was trapped there. You could go back to it and see what percentage of the repairs were complete and, naturally, it wasn't 100% until you finished the game. Which, of course, involved learning along the way that the Light World was unstable and would disappear if it were invaded by the Dark World's GanonEmperor Ing.

As for the wave, that was adapted into a humorous .gif after Other M came out.

The one female protag character from Jpnese media that closely resembles that vision of Samus, that I know of, is this lady:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/GuardianoftheSacredSpiritDVD.jpg

In fact, if you just put her in the Chozo armour, and teach her how to shoot lasers, I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference.
(If your impression of true Samus is the Nintendo Power lady, that is.)

Edit: Oh, and Moribito is the way the theme of Motherhood should be done.Can't say I'm familiar with the Moribito series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moribito). Looks like it isn't going to be published in its entirety in the United States, according to that Wikipedia article.