Help with a Crusader/ Mo9 build

[soulsabre345]

Ok, for a campaign a bit in the future I'm making a level 10 character, which will get to a unknown level. That said, I'm planning on taking Mo9 at level 11, and am trying to figure out the best starting point. This is not for a high-powered campaign, and in particular I'm not trying to deal heavy damage with this character. I want to be mainly a group assist, with a side focus in lockdown via stand still. I don't know what race to pick at the moment, and if anyone has any other good ideas for modifications to the build please say so. I know that warblade 1 says it's strictly only level 1 maneuvers available, but that's being waived. If possible, a dragonic race would be prefered. (I was contemplating Earth or Desert kobold just because it's a great concept, but given I don't have a feat to burn on dragonwrought I disregarded it.)

I also haven't picked which flaws I'm taking yet, especially since the DM has a fondness for custom ones.

Crusader 4 / Monk 1 / Crusader + 3 / Warblade 1 / Crusader + 1
Flaw: Extra Granted manuver
Flaw: Stand Still
1 Combat Reflexes
Monk Bonus Dodge
Monk Bonus Improved Unarmed Strike
3 Adapative Style
6 Blind-fight
9 Improved Initiative


Warblade Manuvers (3 readied );
-3-
- Action before Thought
- Sudden Leap
- Iron Heart Surge
Stance: Absolute Steel Stance


Crusader ( 5 readied (3 granted));
-1-
- Replacedx3
- Charging Minotaur
- Leading the Attack
Stance: Martial Spirit
-2-
- Shield Block
- Mountain Hammer (Via Replace)
Stance: Iron Guard's Glare
-3-
- White Raven Tactics
- Revitalizing Strike (Via Replace)
-4-
- Divine Surge
-5-
- Flanking Manuver (Via Replace)
Stance: Thicket of Blades

Were using a high-power stat generation system (85 points spread among stats at a one to one cost, max of 1 18 +2 from levels), so stats at the moment are

18 str
16 dex
19 con
10 int
14 cha
10 wis

These can be swapped around, just so long as all the stats added together = 87

I was contemplating unarmed swordsage, but I thought iron heart surge was worth having before I get into Mo9. Swordsage and warblade levels are a option, but I don't know if I want quite that much access to manuvers and I'd be locked into being a human.

Edit 1: Changed stats around
Edit 2: I've been thinking on what level progression to take after 10, and I was thinking along the following lines;
Mo9 2 / Crusader +2 / Mo9 +3 / Crusader +3

That lets me pick up both aura of perfect order and immortal fortitude at the exact levels that they become available, and ends with mettle from crusader 13 at 20.

[navar100]

I recommend lumping it not having Iron Heart Surge and use unarmed swordsage. You can get it first level Master of Nine by learning Wall of Blades with it, which is a nice counter maneuver regardless of level, if you really, really want Iron Heart Surge. Play a human for the bonus feat and you can still have all the feats you want and need. The maneuvers you get from swordsage are far better than what you can get from one level of monk. Pick up some Shadow Hand so you can take Shadow Stride and/or Shadow Blink in Master of Nine. Also take Moment of Perfect Mind.

Take two away from Int and Con and put them into Str. Use level up bonus for Con. As a human you'll still have plenty of skill points. If you know you will want to wear platemail you can take 4 away from Dex instead.

Edit: Oh, only one score at 18 to start. If in platemail, still take away the 4 from Dex and 2 from Con. Put 4 into strength and 2 into mental stat of your choice. Still use level up bonuses for Con. You're taking a BAB hit with Master of Nine at least. You need the +# to hit from Strength.

[soulsabre345]

The int and con, I'll agree with and swap. On removing dex, This character still has a capability for lockdown, and hitting dex that hard severely limits that ability.

On the monk/ warblade levels, Unless you can give me a valid counterargument that 2 levels of swordsage are needed, I'm only going to ever take 1, and fill the other level with something that grants a feat. Monk grants 2 needed feats, so it leaves a level free that I can play with.

On the swordsage maneuvers, yes they're potent, but the argument you gave is just as valid for IHS, given that the only shadow hand teleports I could use are move or std actions. Also, this is a highly mobile character, with almost nonexistent need for full attacks. I always have a move action available typically to get in and out of combat. I could literally just buy a set of shadow hand gloves and get the teleport just as easily, or get it in the first level of master of nine on the crusader.

[navar100]

Oops on me. Forgot about the lockdown. Never mind lowering Dex. Personal bias: Dex has been a low priority ability score for me for a long time. :smallbiggrin:

[Snowbluff]

Yeah, an Unarmed Swordsage would be able to cover most of your Skill and Maneuver requirements as well as Improved Unarmed in one go, but monk is fine.

A second Monk level should get you another prereq feat as well, allowing for level 8 entry. It'll be nice getting in early, unless the campaign is going on for well into higher levels.

[soulsabre345]

I may still contemplate unarmed swordsage, but as for 2 levels of monk, if I do that then I lack the manuver requirements for Mo9. If you meant 2 levels of monk, 1 of warblade/SS with the way ToB multiclassing works, you always want to take even numbers of levels in other classes, so i'd take either 2 or 4 levels in other classes, not 3, and 4 levels in other classes would hit my IL a bit too hard personally. Warblade I like because it's a relatively easy regain method, so if used there's a chance that I'll be able to recover them if a fight goes on for more than 3 rounds. Swordsage doesn't have that option.

So, does anyone else have race ideas aside from human (or a human variant) that might work well here?

Also, I put up the progression for past 10, if anyone has suggestions on that feel free.

[Snowbluff]

I may still contemplate unarmed swordsage, but as for 2 levels of monk, if I do that then I lack the manuver requirements for Mo9. If you meant 2 levels of monk, 1 of warblade/SS with the way ToB multiclassing works, you always want to take even numbers of levels in other classes, so i'd take either 2 or 4 levels in other classes, not 3, and 4 levels in other classes would hit my IL a bit too hard personally. Warblade I like because it's a relatively easy regain method, so if used there's a chance that I'll be able to recover them if a fight goes on for more than 3 rounds. Swordsage doesn't have that option.

So, does anyone else have race ideas aside from human (or a human variant) that might work well here?

Also, I put up the progression for past 10, if anyone has suggestions on that feel free.

Elf would be nice for Eternal Blade Entry.

Devoted Spirit, White Raven, Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, Tiger Claw, Diamond Mind... okay, that checks out.:smalltongue:

[soulsabre345]

Elf's an idea, but Mo9 is a 5-level prestige and the earliest you can enter is 8, meaning you'd lose out on the last 2 levels of eternal blade, and Mo9 is really built for entering around levels 11-13, meaning you'd be losing the last 5 levels of eternal blade if you did so.