some help requested with a pathfinder build

[DarthSpader]

so im making a pathfinder character. starting at lvl 4and im reaslly liking the idea of a summoner/synthesist character. the idea im mulling around is summoner 3 / monk 1. all further levels go into summoner. the reason being: we use a pretty "broken" method of stat generation, and im likley to have respectable if not high stats. so i would load up wis and cha, dumping the physical stats. the question i have however... does the monks fluffy of blows ability work with an endolons limbs/claws? does the monks unarmed strike damage increase matter?

effectivly, this is the build im looking at for evoultions: bipedal base form, with slam attack, imp damage slam, imp nat armor, and ability increase. eventually ill pick up bite attack and imp damage for it, wings etc. im kind of stuck on feats... i think imp init is a given, but i still need 1-2 more (havent decided on human or other race yet. waiting to hear back from DM on my options) the theme im going with is almost a "rip off" of the venom character. a lawful evil "symbiote" toting melee bad @%$ that just wades in and tears things apart. so any help with feats selections would be much apreciated and helpful, as thats my only real sticking point.

[Shinovar]

"A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks."
So you wont be able to really make use of the Monk level, except for the saves, and you are better off with two levels of Paladin if they are really that important to you. Smite can be nice with a high Charisma, not to mention the real gem, Divine Grace.

If you want slam for the flavor, great. Stick with it and play it well. However, if you want it for optimization purposes, you would be better served with focusing on claws. If you want to go bipedal, you can get 4 claw attacks with just 1 evolution. You can put claws on feet once, although your DM might not like you full attacking with them until you get flight at level 5. With claws, you can add your strength with each attack, allowing you to do 1D6 plus Strength each time if you pick up improved damage evolution. This will really come into its own when you can pick up energy attacks and rend.

Alternatively, you can be a half elf and the wild-caller archetype. This effectively allows you to add an evolution point to your pool every two levels (wild caller and half elf favored class bonus). You couldn't take energy attacks with this archetype, but the evolution points can be worth it depending on the build you go with. You can have an evolution pool of 9 at level 4 if you go with this.

Also, you might want to consider the quadruped. Pounce is that good and much harder to come by in Pathfinder than in 3.5. The strength hit hurts a bit, but not as much as it rocks to get 4 attacks every charge. Still, if biped works better for your idea, don't let optimization change the character that you want to play.

Whatever you do, I would really suggest taking the Improved natural armor evolution whenever possible. That means once now and then a second time next level. Also, Improved Natural attack will go great with whatever your primary attack is. The reason I suggest claws is because you can then focus all your resources on improving one type of attack (Improved damage, Improved natural attack, energy attacks, reach). With slam it takes 3 points for each attack (2 for limbs, 1 for slam). Claws just take one point for 4 attacks. This leaves you with between 6 and 8 evolution points for other goodies.

As for feats to take now, you should only have 2 at level 4, unless you went human. And I would suggest half-elf over human, especially if you intend for this game to go on for awhile. Human gets one extra feat. Half-elf will give you 5 evolutions by level 20 (10 if you go wild caller, a half-elf archetype). Each point is worth a feat, albeit maybe not the best feat. Power attack is always a good choice for a frontline fighter. Many here don't like the pathfinder version, but it will do fine, especially since you don't have full BAB to fuel it with anyway. Combat Reflexes is also nice, especially if you get a reach evolution.

[DarthSpader]

well.. the reason i was interested in monk, was mainly the wisdom to AC, and only needing 1 lvl to get it. im not too worried about saves. however, i have played a palladin in the past, and the character im working on is sort of a previous character "reborn" and that char was a pally. while i would like to "optimize" i also want a more in depth role playing situation then simply min maxing a character to be crazy. last i want is calls of overpowered cheddar at the game table. i have a concept idea, and im gonna roll with that i think.

also, at lvl 4 having to take 2 lvls of palladin to get the saves etc really hurts the synth abilities. i would much rather just have a single class, as sort of a "background / flavour" aspect, then have the rest as the synth. im probally playing human, so ill have 3 feats to consider. imp init is definitly one of the ones im liking, but the other 2 are kind of iffy. perhaps weapon focus (claws) and dodge? the rest of my feats would be used to build towards spring attack, and becoming a speedy, bouncing around blender essentially.

(i also like monk because the abilities dont require armor, and the synth cant really use armor anyway.)

anyhow - still undecided on feats so if anyone can provide some cool combos for a lvl 4 human ... that would be great.

[QuidEst]

Generally, just sticking with a Half-Elf Synthesist Summoner will be more effective. Favored class bonus gives you extra evolutions, and half-elves are immune to magical sleep effects- the Eidolon is there to stay. Now throw on bonuses to Perception, saves vs. Enchantment, and the whole thing starts to look pretty good. You give up a feat and a skill point/level, but it's plenty in return. Not to say that human is a bad choice… human is never a bad choice.

AC won't be a problem. Mage Armor gives you +4 AC for four hours, and Eidolons already get scaling bonuses to natural armor and Dex. Biped will get 10 base + 1 Dex + 4 Natural + 4 Mage Armor at level 4. Not enough? One evo point gets you another two natural armor. At level 5, that goes up to 10 base + 2 Dex + 6 Natural + 4 Mage Armor, with an optional +4 natural available from evo points. That's not even grabbing Ability Increase for more Dex. Throwing on Wis to AC would be… gratuitous. The enemies wouldn't bother, because they could just go hit the squishy mages instead.

[DarthSpader]

well it dosent matter. DM has quashed the idea of a synthesist, as aparently its too "super-heroish and not fantasy enough" ....

not gonna argue the DM, so yea. that little idea of mine is done with before it got started. :smallannoyed:

[Deathkeeper]

Well, what the DM says goes, as they say.
Although I can think of instances of a similar power in fantasy stories. Still, I suppose it IS a bit Green-Lantern-ish.

[DarthSpader]

true. and ive DMed myself enough times to know some people have diffierent ideas, and direct challanges dont sit well. still, i tend to be a bit more "relaxed" with what i allow, generally anything goes as long as it has an actual source, and isint some random 3rd party or personal creation. if its got a book or exists on the SRD i generally say ok, go with it. (with the exception of allowing some monster races) - so its kind of frustrating to spend a week coming up with character bios, backgrounds, personality, etc only to have the DM just give me a hard "no - because i said so"

oh well. will keep the idea handy for another game at another time. so... any suggestions on an alternitive?

[grarrrg]

If you want slam for the flavor, great. Stick with it and play it well. However, if you want it for optimization purposes, you would be better served with focusing on claws.

...better focusing on claws until the point where you hit your Max Attack limit with plenty of points leftover (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245496).


oh well. will keep the idea handy for another game at another time. so... any suggestions on an alternitive?

Be a Dwarf.
Wear a Dwarven Boulder Helmet (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/helmet-dwarven-boulder) (counts as Martial for Dwarves).
Take 2 levels of Ranger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger) with the Natural Combat Style so you can take Aspect of the Beast (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/aspect-of-the-beast) for 2 Claw attacks.
Take 1 level of White-Haired Witch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/white-haired-witch) for a Hair Beard-attack that can be used to Grapple.
You now have 3 Natural Attacks and qualify for Multiattack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/multiattack-combat) making your Secondary attacks only -2 To-Hit.
Take 1 level of Monk for WIS-to-AC.

NAKED HEAD-BUTTING BEARD-WRESTLING DOESN'T-TRIM-HIS-FINGERNAILS DWARF OF DOOM!!!!

Bonus points for going Martial Artist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/martial-artist) Monk (does NOT have to be Lawful) and then taking levels of Barbarian to add RAGE (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian)!!

[DarthSpader]

:smallconfused:
....

... dafuq....

cant tell if serious or....

[jmelesky]

:smallconfused:
....

... dafuq....

cant tell if serious or....

Grarrrg is always both, as far as I can tell. :smallwink:

[grarrrg]

:smallconfused:
....

... dafuq....

cant tell if serious or....

You originally wanted a Synthesist with a dash of Monk.
Synthesists are Natural Attack monsters.
I gave you a Natural Attack monster with a dash of Monk.

I fail to see the problem.

[DarthSpader]

not a problem.... just a build i never would have ever thought of in a million years... a dwarven beard fighter.... wow.




so hey on a completly diffierent topic, another group im in is competing in some player vrs player "duels" unfortunitly my character pissed off another one, (bad use of a particluar AOE spell... not a good idea woops) and the duel may turn into a death match. the player(s) im fighting is a fighter and possibly a fire fetish sorc. my "god" wizard may have issues... i dont want to kill them, but i do want to keep them from killing me, and send a message the wizard is not to be trifled with. we are 4th lvl, and im a universal wizard. i generally have spells like color spray and levitate, or other battlefield area control, as i decided to leave the damage end of things to other more "interested" damage dealers. i was thinking of this: levitate myself away from the fighter, as he has no range wep, then cast resist energy and shield on myself to negate the sorc. zap with color spray, followed by a web or darkness etc. any other ideas?

[grarrrg]

not a problem.... just a build i never would have ever thought of in a million years... a dwarven beard fighter.... wow.

Someone has never heard of Fistbeard Beardfist before...:smallcool:


As far as the current PF build goes though...
It is too bad that Drunken Master cannot be taken with Martial Artist :smallfrown:
BUT! We can still go Martial Artist + Drunken Brute (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/drunken-brute) Barbarian! :smallsmile:

[DarthSpader]

what about a monk/palladin? with human +2 to any stat, and decent rolls, i should be able to pump up wis and cha, plus have an ok dex and str. the other 3 stats are pretty much dump/secondary ... but adding cha to saves and wis to AC, combined with mobility and fast movment, and maybe some wands for usefull buffs. could be a like something out of the matrix - maybe even grab a lvl of sorc at some point. :P

[grarrrg]

what about a monk/palladin? with human +2 to any stat, and decent rolls, i should be able to pump up wis and cha, plus have an ok dex and str. the other 3 stats are pretty much dump/secondary ... but adding cha to saves and wis to AC, combined with mobility and fast movment, and maybe some wands for usefull buffs. could be a like something out of the matrix - maybe even grab a lvl of sorc at some point. :P

...Paladin/Monk = No.
Paladin/Monk/Sorcerer = HELL NO!

Although, the Paladin/Monk option did become INFINITELY better (still on the 'bad' side, but at least useable) with the introduction of Champion of Irori (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/champion-of-irori) in Paths of Prestige.
You need at least 3 levels of Monk and 1 level of Paladin to qualify. 5 levels total, so I'd go Paladin 2 for Divine Grace. Although the Ki Pool of Champion arguably only stacks if the Monk actually has a Ki Pool, which doesn't come until 4th.

It stacks with Monk levels for, well, almost everything you have at Monk 3.
And it stacks with Paladin levels for Smite Damage, AND lets you use your Smites to either Smite Evil OR Chaos.

I would make INT your Dump stat.
Have WIS > CHA, as more things trigger off WIS, and Monk/Champion have all good saves anyway.

As far as race, forget Human, I would go Merfolk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-merfolk).
Bad thing first: you have a default movement speed of _5_ft. But, with the Strong Tail option, it boosts your speed up to 15ft. (and reduces your Swim speed to 30ft.), add the +10ft. bonus from Monk 3 and the fact that you won't be wearing armor, and you'll be OK with 25ft. movement (Champion does NOT stack for Speed).
On the Plus side, you get +2 DEX, +2 Con AND +2 CHA which will REALLY help your MADness.
You also get a +2 Natural Armor bonus, and are Immune to being Tripped.

[DarthSpader]

only allowed base races : (

[grarrrg]

only allowed base races : (

Then Human, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc.
None of the rest penalize INT which is the only stat you don't need.