[PF] Major differences I should know DMing this over 3.5?

[EatAtEmrakuls]

Lots of experience with 3.5 and 4e DMing.

Just give me the basics on the differences between 3.5 and PF please. None of my players will be Wizards, Druids, Clerics, or Sorcerers. Any other classes that can break the game in half I should know about? We're not using 3.5 material.

[Snowbluff]

CMD, Skills changes, and feats placement ate every other level. So nothing, really. The changes are mostly found within the classes themselves.

[RFLS]

Archetypes within the classes are a big deal; they remove some of thge impulse to multi-class found in 3.5. The other big difference is how favored classes are handled (much better, IMO).

[Sucrose]

Also, many feats have changed (generally making them less effective), and a few spells have been nerfed. Look up everything on the Pathfinder SRD; do not assume that you know what something does because it has the same name as 3.5. Lots of niggling differences.

[Arutema]

Death is no longer at -10, but at negative Con. The stabilize check was changed from a 10% to a DC10 Con check, with a penalty on that roll equal to your current negative HP.

[ThiagoMartell]

Experience for level up is very different.

[Larpus]

Crafting no longer spends EXP, that's a big one, now it's all done in gold.

Another crafting change: with the Master Craftsman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final) even mundanes can create magical gear.

Also, there are new classes to be found, so if any player wants to use them, obviously give it a good read, otherwise, do it when you have time to, there are interesting options in them.

[Psyren]

Lots of experience with 3.5 and 4e DMing.

Just give me the basics on the differences between 3.5 and PF please. None of my players will be Wizards, Druids, Clerics, or Sorcerers. Any other classes that can break the game in half I should know about? We're not using 3.5 material.

Witches and Summoners are also very high-tier. Note that this only means they CAN break the game, not that they WILL - same as the other classes you listed.

And yes, be sure to double-check any spell that your players use. Many were changed in subtle ways, that nevertheless translate to radical differences in play.

[docnessuno]

Witches and Summoners are also very high-tier. Note that this only means they CAN break the game, not that they WILL - same as the other classes you listed.

And yes, be sure to double-check any spell that your players use. Many were changed in subtle ways, that nevertheless translate to radical differences in play.

The summoner is high Tier 3. I'ts a very strong class but lacking the potential to be a real campaing smasher.

[Squirrel_Dude]

My quick guide to class changes.

- Barbarians can gain an ability called Spell Sunder. They punch spell out of existence now, just think about that. They now have rounds of rage/day instead of rage uses/day
- Bards have a ton of small changes to them. Too many to list.
- Clerics are no longer automatically proficient with Heavy Armor. They no longer have undead turning, but channel energy.
- Druids can't both tank and cast effectively anymore because of a change in polymorph rules.
- Fighters kind of stayed where they are but with even more versatility than other tanks.
- Monks are still monks and shouldn't be played at low levels
- Paladins and Rangers got a big boost. As noted below with smite evil, and also with a special weapon instead of a mount. Rangers can now ignore pre-reqs for combat style feats, and their companions got better.
- Rogues got a nerfed because everyone got more stronger than they did.
- Sorcerer Bloodlines make them closer to wizards, but they loose familiars in most cases.
- Wizards got worse because they didn't get any improvement, and spells were nerfed. They gain school powers

- Prestige Classes: My opinion is a steadfast "meh" for all of them.


Skills
- Gather Information was folded into diplomacy and Knowledge (Local)
- Speak Language, Decipher Script, and Forger were folded into "Linguistics"
- Jump, Balance, and Tumble were folded into "Acrobatics"
- Hide and Move Silently were folded into "Stealth"
- Open Lock and Disable Device were folded into "Disable Device"


Heads up on open source books Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic: Be wary when using these books. Terrible rule wordings, genesis is back, weapons and classes that totally overshadow equivalents from previous books.

[navar100]

Paladin's Smite Evil lasts until the target is dead or the paladin "refreshes" his abilities, such as the next day after rest. That means if the paladin Smites, the target escapes, and the paladin catches up to his target an hour later, the Smite Evil is still in effect without having to expend another use. It's a distinction often overlooked.

[Arbane]

Paladin's Smite Evil lasts until the target is dead or the paladin "refreshes" his abilities, such as the next day after rest. That means if the paladin Smites, the target escapes, and the paladin catches up to his target an hour later, the Smite Evil is still in effect without having to expend another use. It's a distinction often overlooked.

Also, it can be used with any weapon. Archerdins can be _nasty_.

[Karoht]

Mind Blank no longer does what you think it does.
Wild Shape is very different. You no longer just pull out stats from the bestiary, you gain bonuses (and bonus abilities such as Pounce) depending on what you turn into. Some of the Druid archetypes play into this, some do not.
Polymorph and it's entire line has been changed, though I am unfamiliar with the specific differences.

Potions, Scrolls, Wands, Staves, if crafted no longer use XP. It's just money.
Potions and Scrolls are actually way more worth it to make, same with Wands. I think the idea was to give characters more reason to look forward to down time, and incentivize a slower playstyle, rather than the '9-5 adventure party.' Beware that it does create easier access to quite a few objects. For example, if one is clever, potions and scrolls can cost next to nothing. If you're party is smart, this means you will have to balance some encounters around the expectation that yes, the party does have access to X in addition to the rest of their toolkit.

[Togath]

Heads up on open source books Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic: Be wary when using these books. Terrible rule wordings, genesis is back, weapons and classes that totally overshadow equivalents from previous books.

Those books are fine, and ultimate combat is balanced jsut fine, I'm not sure why you feel they're over powered.

[Slipperychicken]

All XP costs are gone, AFAIK. All XP costs replaced with [5 * XP] gold. For example, Wish now costs 25,000gp instead of 5,000xp.

Fighters are good at fighting from Weapon Training. Still not good at anything else, though.

Power Attack changed, possibly for the better. You don't get to choose how much you PA for, but the attack/damage tradeoff is still worth it, and scales with level.

Deadly Aim is basically Power Attack for archers.

A correctly-built Eidolon can become a true melee monster, completely outshining melee of equal level. It's the main Summoner class feature.

[Psyren]

Also, it can be used with any weapon. Archerdins can be _nasty_.

And while we're at it, let's not forget auto-bypassing ALL damage reduction on the target. No, evil wizard, I will pincushion you through both your Protection from Arrows and your Stoneskin.


Those books are fine, and ultimate combat is balanced jsut fine, I'm not sure why you feel they're over powered.

Well, the Ninja pretty much spanks the Rogue at everything except traps, and UM finally fixed the monk, so I can see why people might feel that way - but it's nothing to get upset over imo, those classes needed the help.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Those books are fine, and ultimate combat is balanced jsut fine, I'm not sure why you feel they're over powered.Ultimate Magic I speak from what I've heard. Ultimate Combat has been a thorn in my side as soon as my friends and I started to try and use it.
- New Rules
The boat rules make no sense and don't have proper statistics for 3 dimensional objects. (Why do galley's move as faster as a clipper ship?)

- Equipment
As for weapons that overshadow over ones. The one that stands out the most is the Nodachi. It's a martial two-handed weapon that does 1d10 damage, has an 18 to 20 crit range (x2 damage), does Slashing or Piercing damage, and has Brace. It completely overshadows the Falchion, and in some ways the Elven Curve Blade.

The weapons listed with the "monk" descriptor are not also listed as new weapons to add to the monk's proficiency list. One of these manages to do Bludgeoning or Slashing or Piercing damage.

2 of the Light Armor selections have a maximum dexterity bonus of " - ", Armor Check Penalty of 0, and a spell failure chance of 0%. Wizards and sorcerers can now wear armor.

The Medium armor selection is in my estimation better than the selection in the core rulebook.

- Classes
- The ninja is better than the rogue. It does the same stuff, can take rogue tricks, and gets spells (running on any liquid, etherealness) as spell like abilities. It's capstone ability is says this:

"She can, as a standard action, cast greater invisibility on herself. While invisible in this way, she cannot be detected by any means, and not even invisibility purge, see invisibility, and true seeing can reveal her"

- The Samurai's capstone ability should just be renamed "lolololol - I challenge the wizard, and the barbarian, ranger, rogue, and fighter can't kill me now"

Archetypes
- From the Tower Shield Specialist
"At 3rd level, a tower shield specialist gains armor training as normal, but while he employs a tower shield, the armor penalty is reduced by 3 and the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor increases by 2. The benefit increases every four levels thereafter as per standard armor training; if the tower shield specialist is not employing a tower shield, the benefits to armor training revert to the normal bonuses. "

The problem here is the lack of a change in the maximum dex bonus provided by armor training (which means that it caps out a couple levels early). It's also vague in how it increases like armor training. The same amount or just the same set of levels. I would say that it's frustratingly vague.

Also, it increase the max dex bonus of the armor, and not the shield, but that's semantics.

- The Merciful Healer (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classArchetypes/cleric.html) : Gimpzilla

- From the Crusader Cleric Archetype:
"A crusader gains a bonus feat at 1st level, then again at 5th level and every five levels thereafter (to a maximum of six at 20th level)."

I have no idea how you could get 6 feats with this.


- Gendarme: Give up teamwork feats for combat feats and get a better capstone ability in place of the old one. That's it. No downside other than loosing teamwork feats (which are only helpful if another fighter takes them, which they won't)

- The Titan Mauler does not work as it is written because of the way damage scales for over-sized weapons and the inability to use a Large greatsword as a non-large sized character.

- Spell Sunder: Barbarians can punch spells out of existence

[Arbane]

- Spell Sunder: Barbarians can punch spells out of existence

Are you complaining or bragging? Because this ability is AWESOME. :smallbiggrin:

[Squirrel_Dude]

Are you complaining or bragging? Because this ability is AWESOME. :smallbiggrin:Both. It's a great way to try and keep martial classes closer to casters. I emphasize try. That said it's also another ability that allows Barbarians to leave Fighters in the dust. Honestly, that entire book (the one called Ultimate Combat) does little to help fighters as much as it helps monks.

[Arbane]

Both. It's a great way to try and keep martial classes closer to casters. I emphasize try. That said it's also another ability that allows Barbarians to leave Fighters in the dust. Honestly, that entire book (the one called Ultimate Combat) does little to help fighters as much as it helps monks.

Arguably, the monk needed more help. But yeah, Fighters are still stuck in the 'realism' trap while the monk and barbarian get to break physics.

[Frosty]

The difference between 3.5 and PF in terms of the core rules is only about as different as G.A.A.P is compared to I.F.R.S for accounting.

[Psyren]

The difference between 3.5 and PF in terms of the core rules is only about as different as G.A.A.P is compared to I.F.R.S for accounting.

I'm afraid I detected some LIFO method in your post. You'll have to roll for revenue recognition :smalltongue:

[Novawurmson]

The summoner is high Tier 3. I'ts a very strong class but lacking the potential to be a real campaing smasher.

DMing for a Summoner right now. They're definitely tier 2 material; they can break the game regularly, just in fewer and more reliable ways. They really do get limited 9th level casting, despite it being broken up into 6 levels; then you throw in level-appropriate, minutes-per-level summon monster SLAs and a Fighter for free, plus some great other class features. It ends up pretty brutal.

For general PF advice, make sure you read the rules for CMD and CMB a few times; almost anything that gets added to an attack roll gets added to CMB and most things besides armor/natural armor/shields and size modifiers that are added to AC are added to CMD.

Players very rarely get dead levels. Prestige classes are generally unnecessary. Races generally end up with a net +2 to stats; Half-Elves in particular got a big boost. Alternate racial features are fun, but be careful about overwhelming new players with too many choices.

Cleric is to Oracle as Wizard is to Sorcerer; Oracles can actually be better than Clerics at some things (blasting comes to mind), if you're trying to avoid tier 2 classes.

New tier 3ish classes include the Magus, Alchemist, and Inquisitor.

[Ravens_cry]

There is a good deal more arcane healing than in 3.5.
Sneak attack affects quite a few more things, though there is less ways to give it for the things that aren't.

[Frosty]

I'm afraid I detected some LIFO method in your post. You'll have to roll for revenue recognition :smalltongue:Naw, no rolling needed. I always use a weighted average method.

Lately I've been raiding the GM's treasury stock after every level-appropriate transaction.

[CockroachTeaParty]

A
...UM finally fixed the monk...

How so? I have the book, but I haven't given the monk material much of a look yet.

[Psyren]

How so? I have the book, but I haven't given the monk material much of a look yet.

The Qinggong archetype, which lets you swap out all of the monk's random, useless abilities (e.g. Slow Fall, High Jump and Tongue of the Sun and Moon), and replace them with useful SLAs, passive buffs or bonus feats. Furthermore, any feats gained this way don't need prerequisites (e.g. a Qinggong Monk can trade Quivering Palm for Whirlwind Attack, and not need any of the prerequisite feats in the chain.)

[QuidEst]

How so? I have the book, but I haven't given the monk material much of a look yet.

Remember all those useless, mostly fluff, or situational at best abilities that Monks have lying around? Qinggong Monk gets to trade them in for ki-fueled SLAs or temporary use of feats. You can get things like Barkskin or Ki Leech. It stacks with any archetype, and can be taken and ignored completely.