3.5 S.A. Assassin, help please!

[jmtourret]

Hey, im kinda new to d&d and Im having trouble with my base attack, not being able to hit and wanting turns is troubling me.

This is what i have so far (with help of my dm)

rogue 2/sage 2/swashbuckler 3/dread comando3 / assasin 9 / unseen seer 1

And i went
1 and 2 rogue
3 to 5 swasbuckler
6 swordsage
7 assassin

Illl probably assa the next 8 lvls, i heard the 10th isnt worth it. then one of unseen seer and then 3 lvls on dread commando. (i think he isnt applying xp restricctions for multiclassing)

These is more or less my feat progression
1 TwoWeapong fighting
flaw Mobility
flaw Travel Devotion
3 Darkstalker
6 daring outlaw
9 desert wind dodge
12 shadow blade
15 Groom Razor

Any ideas?

[tyckspoon]

If your stat line is arranged such that Shadow Blade will be good for you, you should probably get Weapon Finesse in there somewhere. I'd probably switch Desert Wind Dodge for it. And ask your DM if you can do fractional BAB and saves, if you aren't already- that'll squeeze another point of BAB or two out of the Rogue, Swordsage, Assassin, and Unseen Seer levels.

Squeeze every situational bonus you can. You should, at a minimum, almost always be Flanking, Undetected, and striking an enemy who is denied Dex, which makes a reasonably large swing on the d20.

[eggs]

Not using fractional BA is where headaches come from. (Fractional BA is where a Fighter level is worth 1 point of BA; a cleric level 3/4 and a wizard level 1/2, with the sum rounded down; saves work similarly.) See if you can get it cleared - more for sanity's sake than powergaming, but the attack bonus would be nice.

You shouldn't have any multiclass penalties with that build. I don't know why that would be an issue.
EDIT: That was assuming human, but your feats say otherwise. What race are you using?

Dread Commando isn't better than Rogue levels, but the feat chain it locks you into is pretty awful. I wouldn't touch that.

If Dragon Magazine variants are available, Holy Monk from Dragon #310 could make good filler levels. It gets Turning in place of its level 1 and 6 feats, as well as the normal front-loaded dip. This can fuel Travel Devotion and maybe also give enough turnings for Law Devotion's hefty attack bonuses (but that might be a stretch).

If you're trying to get lots of attacks at high bonuses, natural weapon builds tend to be easier than TWF (no penalty to the primary attack, and all secondaries made at [full bonus -5] or -2 with multiattack). If there's a way to work those in, take it.

A wand of Wraithstrike isn't cheap at this level (4.5k), but you should be able to auto-use it with Assassin levels, and it should solve your attack bonus problems if other fixes don't. Stick it in a wand chamber if you want to use it with TWF.

If you qualify for Daring Outlaw with the feat slot it's in, are the shenanigans involved relevant to your attack bonus?

[A_S]

-If you're gonna take TWF, take the whole feat line.
-Dread Commando is pretty awful. Sudden Strike is much more difficult to deliver than Sneak Attack, and Mobility is a wasted feat otherwise. I'd drop it.
-Unseen Seer 2 is a much better level than Assassin 9. It'll net you 1 BAB for 1 sneak die, and you'll be able to pick up Hunter's Eye as your bonus spell, which will more than make up for it.
-Some extra levels of Swordsage later in the build will get you access to higher level maneuvers (since non martial adept levels count as 1/2 levels for initiator level).

A better level progression might be:
1 - Rogue 1
2 - Rogue 2
3 - Swash 1
4 - Swash 2
5 - Swash 3
6 - Swordsage 1
7 - Assassin 1
8 - Assassin 2
9 - Assassin 3
10 - Assassin 4
11 - Assassin 5
12 - Assassin 6
13 - Assassin 7
14 - Assassin 8
15 - Swordsage 2
16 - Unseen Seer 1
17 - Unseen Seer 2
18 - Swordsage 3
19 - Swordsage 4
20 - Swordsage 5

That'd get you 11d6 SA in Assassin's Stance, with Hunter's Eye granting you an additional 3d6 as a swift action (4d6 if you can get +1 caster level, or 5d6 if you can work Practiced Spellcaster into the build).

For feats, TWF, Travel Devotion, and Darkstalker are all good, but talk to your DM and see if he'll let you retrain Mobility; it's a crappy feat, and you actually didn't qualify for it when you took it, as far as I can tell (it requires Dodge, and you don't take Desert Wind Dodge until later in the build). If you can, I'd suggest as a feat progression:

1 - TWF
Flaw - Travel Devotion
Flaw - Craven
3 - Darkstalker
6 - Daring Outlaw
9 - ITWF
12 - Staggering Strike
15 - GTWF
18 - Practiced Spellcaster (Assassin)

[eggs]

-If you're gonna take TWF, take the whole feat line.
I disagree. Gloves of the Balanced Hand cover the second attack with just a GP cost, and the -10 penalty on the third is enough to make the third feat at best dubious.

EDIT:
Also on Unseen Seer 2. The sneak attack die, caster level and HiPS make a solid level. Hunter's eye is worth a lot more with decent CL and either spell slots or Persist uses to blow on it.

[ThiagoMartell]

Don't take all TWF feats. Just take TWF and buy Gloves of the Balanced Hands. BAB and BAB-5 are the attacks that actually matter, after all.

[A_S]

I stand corrected.

[Kelb_Panthera]

GTWF can be worth it on a full BAB character, like say a sneak attack fighter. I wouldn't touch it on an average BAB build though.

[jmtourret]

Wow, thanks for the advice! I kinda liked how the commando sound, but the maneuvers really are usefull. Changing the build a little wont be a problem, my dm tries to ensure we are happy with our pjs :P.

Ill chat with him to see what can be done! thanks again.

Edit: by the way im a tiefling and my stats go
str 14
con 16
dex19 (+2)
int 18
wis 14
cha 15 (-2)