Poison and Alchemists

[Wise Green Bean]

So I was looking at the Pathfinder Alchemist class for the first time in any great detail, and I like it, the whole 'magical mad scientist' theme. But I found myself wondering: How do alchemists poison? A lot of alchemist abilities go to more efficiently applying poison, and that's great, but I have no clue how an alchemist is supposed to afford it. He's already likely using a decent amount on one time alchemical doodads, and the bill for all this is going to run rather steep. The class seems heavily designed around making and using single use items. The artificer at least makes sense in theory to me: the items are cheap or permanent. The alchemist, which seems to be Pathfinder's answer to the artificer, has neither of these advantages. So what's up? Am I reading to much into the abilities given? 'Just because you have it doesn't mean you should use it much'? Are there some tricks to doing this affordably that I'm missing?

[Larpus]

You're focusing too much on the wrong class features. Yeah, they get a bonus to Craft (alchemy), yeah, they get use poison feats for free, but a free spoiled apple is still a spoiled apple (not saying that these are bad features, just that they're not good enough to be the main focus of your build).

These are the big four to look on the Alchemist:

1. Extracts, essentially, "potionized" buff-based 3/4 spellcasting, not a bad deal in any way, and if you grab the infusion discovery, you can buff other people without spending actions of your own (as they do it in their turn), so great action economy for you.

2. Bombs. Essentially, this is how an Alchemist attacks and, while the damage is nice and all, the fact that they're limited per day does put them in the same scope as spells in that debuffing/controlling is better than damaging, and it is very true. If you want damage though, be a Vivisectionist and trade this for sneak attack.

3. Mutagen. +4 to a physical score of your choice, +2 NA for 10 mins/level that can be used multiple times per day as long as you have prep time? Yes please. Some archetypes (cough, Beastmorpher, cough) make it even more awesome.

4. Discoveries. Most of them are really amazing and much better than any feat. Which ones though, will depend on your build, but on the overall, if you like bombs, grab the ones that give status effects to your bombs, if you went Vivisectionist, look for the ones that will make you survive longer or be better at combat.

Neither of the listed class features cost a single dime to be used. Ok, maybe couple discoveries do, but those are either not worth it in the least (Infuse Mutagen) or are very good (Alchemical Simulacrum). So bottom line, you can build a perfectly viable and powerful Alchemist without ever spending a single copper piece with Craft (alchemy).

Yes, there are many class features and overall flavor text that would lead you to believe that alchemical items and poison is where all the rage is, but due to poorly written rules and nonsensical gold costs, neither is a powerful option to be your main focus (though Sticky Poison greatly improve poisons' useability by effectively making them way cheaper). Luckily, the rest of the class's features more than compensate for it.

[eggs]

I fiddled around with Sticky poison, that ratfolk disease archetype and some of the cheaper (50-100g/dose) poisons at low-mid levels in a one-shot.

It was one of those things like Soulborn, where you put a lot of resources into one thing, and it still doesn't really work that great.

The Bombs and Mutagens are much more rewarding for the resources invested.

[Wise Green Bean]

Gotcha. Wizards have melee range spells; doesn't mean it's a good idea to use them. Thanks guys.

[mikalife1]

well if you want to make poisons effective you can with say, the vivisectionist archetype the poison conversion and concentrate poison discoveries and the two weapon feat chain feat. but with all the things you need to take to make it effective it is still not worth the discovery/feat expenditure.(I mean if you went that route it would be decent for a while but rapidly become pointless, because poison immunity/high saves are fairly common at higher levels.)