League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut

[Silverraptor]

League of Legends XXXVIII:
Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut



You can sign up for League of Legends here (http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/en/signup/). It's a free MOBA, based on Defence of the Ancients.

We maintain lists of players, sorted by server. If you are not on these lists and would like to be, please post in the thread with the following information in bold: Server (if you don't know it, it's likely the region you're in, but it's worth checking anyway), your Forum Name and your Summoner Name
If no reply's been made about adding you after a day or two, first check the lists to see if you've been added, if not, feel free to post again or PM me. Any incorrectly formatted posts will probably be overlooked.

NA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
0tt3r | 0tt3r
9mm | cwcriner
Adumbration | Benefice
aethernox | aethernox
Alemil | Alemil
Alter | AlterForm
Anonomuss | OpticalSage
ArcanistSupreme | Arcanist Supreme
Arbitrarity | Arbitrarity
Archangel Yuki | Yocham
assassin89 | nineballcirno
Astrella | Sirroelivan
AtwasAwamps | AtwasAwamps
Aurenthal | Estor
Baron Corm | Baron Corm
Baxter | Thefettered
BinaryMage | BinaryMage
Blueiji | Blueiji
BobVosh | BobVosh -or- VoshBob
Bookboy | Keledrath
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Bliss Authority | Companion N00b
Caradryan | Ying Quliang
Castleraven | Castleraven
cdstephens | cdstephens
Chess435 | Chess435
Copacetic | Azbu
Creed | Moarzed
CrnvorousMeece | CarnivorousMeece
Croverus | Croverus
Cute_Riolu | Cute Riolu
Dallas-Dakota | MustacheMan
Dante & Vergil | Raphiezar
Darth Mario | Darth Mario
Daverin | Daverin
Dentrag2 | Callinectes
dgnslyr | GANKERLagann
Dichotomy | Kaellin
Djinn in Tonic | The Djinn
Dogmantra | Dogmantra
douglas | DouglasM
Doxkid | Doxkid
Dragonus45 | Dragonus45
Drager0 | Drager0
Dragor | Supernaturalist
Draken | Draken Frosthand
DrakeRaids | DrakeRaids057
Dralnu | TomerIsHot
dukexx | JacksonHicks
Duos | DapperGuy
efdf | efdf
EifieFlare | EifieFlare
Elagune | Chopstyx
Eldariel | Elealar
EndlessWrath | Andurin
Errandir | Ramses III
EternalMelon | EternalMelon
faith | Ferrovax101
FantomFang | FantomFang
Faulty | FaultyClockwork
Fawkes | Count Fawkes
FeverFox | Alcopop
Flarowon | Kruin Avabruc
kFlechair | Master Zealot
Folytopo | Folytopo
Forrestfire | Forrestfire15
Frankelshtein | McFinkelstein
Fredaintdead | Fredthefighter
Gallus | Anechois
Geigan | Geigan
glemis | glemis
Giant Panda | Le Shirrif
Godskook | Bethor Kookalian
mrcarter11 | Mrcarter11
Gourtox | Gourtox
Gruffard | Gruffard
Hanuman | HanumanXoO
Hatevah | Hatevah
Incomp | Incomp
InyutheBeatIs | Believe Inyu
Istari | IstariK
Ivellius | Ivellius
Jamin | CapZich
JKTrickster | ZenTrickster
Joran | Jorana
KaizoMK | KaizoMK
Kara Kuro | RaptorKitty
Kciemir | Ghostface Ki11ah
Kettle | Kettle747
king.com | kingcom
Kinslayer | HaunterReqiuem
kmchii | kmchii
knightMARE|Sir Wiffleston
Kopaka | CelesHurricane
Kotarus | Adrameleck
Kwazey | Kwazey
LegoShrimp | LegoShrimp
LightWraith | TheLightWraith
Lil Shiro | Mizz Mitchell
litewarior | litewarior
Lix Lorn | ElixiaLorn
Lord Generic | Lord Generic
LordShotGun | LordShotGun
LostEnder | LostEnder
Low-Key | TheFuzziestBear
lvl 1 sharnian | StarryEagle
Lyxie | Lyxie
Maeglin_Dubh | Tycho Velius
Makensha | Jarbis
MammonAzrael | MammonAzrael
Manticoran | Manticoran
MasatoHyuga | MasatoHyuga
Master_Rahl22 | Goltoth
master256 | QWERTYSTOP
Math_Mage | Mathmage
Mattarias, King. | Mattarias
Malmagor Andrigal | Madmal
Maxios | Maxios20
McCerberus | MCerberus
Meatshield#236 | Meatshield236
Merellis | Merellis
Mike_the_Mystic | Kraemer
Milskidasith | Milskidasith
Mindfreak586 | Mindfreak586
Mirrinus | Parallaxal
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Moklok | KokoBWare
mrzomby | mrzomby
Mtg_player_zach | MtgPlayerZach
Mushroom Ninja | Mushroom Ninja
Mutant Bunny | WhollySpart
Nadevoc | Xenik
Nanoblack | IwearSILLYhats
Nargan | Naryuk
Necroticplague | Yamidamian
Neoseanster | Neoseanster
NeoVid | NeoVid
neXianXavia | neXianXavia
NotAEvilToaster | NeonPie
oblivion6 | warcrown10
Octopus Jack | Thalric
PersonMan | Nsev
Pie Guy | Qwazes
pilvento | Kandrass
PhoeKun | PhoeKun
Poison Fish | Baron Von Flib
Protecar | Godreig
Protecar | Atk
Psychotic | SquirrelFish
Qaera | Qaera
ragingrage | ragingrage
Raistlin1040 | Sanevale
Rama | Nargus
Raroy | setokaibasmt
RationalGoblin | AtillathePun
Raveypoos | Rhaviewoos
recklessabaddon | recklessabaddon
revolver kobold | A Magic Kobold
Reynard | Duke Reynington
Serpentine | Lady Serpentine
Shades of Gray | PierreAbelard
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker65
Shadowleaf | Shadowdancing
Shadow Lord | ShadowLordgiantitp
Shadowy | DJPON3Vinyl
ShortOne | LittlePoppy
SidCoolios | Irazel
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Sircarp | Sircarp
SirSigfried | LibertarianSDR
Slash_712 | Catfud
sofawall | sofawall
St. Viers | St.Viers
Starfols | Starfols
SuperPanda | Lokilar
SweetRein | Riot Reinboom
TalonDemonKing | TalonDemonKing
TechnOkami | Techn0kami
Temotei | Temotei221
Terazul | Allegretto
term1nally s1ck | silverdevilboy
tesla_pasta | generictownsman
Thanatos 51-50 | Thanatos Erebus
The_Fiery_Tower | TheFieryTower
TheGlowingRogue | I Glow In Dark
Themage | SirPelletheGreat
Thethan | Thethan
The Rabbler | Paco H Jones
The Shadowmind | The Shadowmind
The Valiant Turtle | Valiant Turtle
Thrantar | Thrantar
Thrawn183 | Thrawnyboy
throtecutter | throtecutter
toasty | toastymow
Tono | Tono Chou
Treayn | Treayn
tribble | Smallbluedot
Tychris1 | Tychris1
userpay | userpay
Vauron | Vauron
Volatar | The Volatar
wandiya | wandiya
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Winthur | Seyruun
woodzyowl | Woodzyowl
Zabel_Zarock | Jon Talbain
Zeful | Zeful
ZeltArruin | ZeltArruin
Zemro | Shivic
ZeroNumerous | ZeroNumerous
Zeteni | Zeteni
zolga | TheZolga[/table]

EU Server--West
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Acromos | Crannoch
Adumbration | Adumbration
Anonomuss | Anonomuss
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Cheers | Sam vds
Cyborg Mage | Cyborg Mage98
Eldariel | Elealar
Even Human | SlyGuyMcFly
Gauntlet | Isva
HalfDragonCube | giantmudkip
Krazzman | Viskerin
Maxymiuk | Maxymiuk
Mc. Lovin | B1GB1RDB4G3L
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Morph Bark | Morpheus Bob
Nargan | Naryuk
PersonMan | Scarge
Reb46 | Reb46
Reynard | Duke Reyn
Runhidesurvive | Jmack10
Saph | StarSaph
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker64
Talesin | Fridgecake
term1nally s1ck | Silverdevilboy
That'd_be_me | AntiLocke
TheGeckoKing | Alpharis Omega
Volatar | VolatarUK
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Ziren | Zirenoid
zolga | MasterZolga[/table]

EU Server--Nordic & East
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Dada | Scrattlebeard
Posca | LDRC
Rockbird | Rockbird[/table]

EU Server--Unspecified
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Abakus | Terpfen
Alemil | Alemil
Ayra | Ayramatao
Darwin | DarwinBeGood
Endoperez | Endoperez
Heliomance | Sidhe de Grian
Kurrel | GrinningOni
littlebottom | Littlebottom
lord_khaine | Lord_khaine
Narazil | Narazil
Narkis | Narkis
Penthar | Malderon
Raviepoos | Skittles Unicorn
Shadowleaf | AncientPharma
Socratov | Mbutu
Voidhawk | Sidhe ne Awk
Zefir | Einerwie
Zombywoof | Zombywoof[/table]

SEA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
abadguy | Smite Thy Enemy[/table]

MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. We're quite a tight knit community, get to know us! Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

Admins: Djinn_in_Tonic (Djinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (LittlePoppy, Raven); Dogmantra; Nano (Nanoceraptor).

STREAMS
Some of us run streams. You can watch them here.
Legoshrimp (http://www.twitch.tv/legoshrimp)
sofawall (http://www.own3d.tv/sofawall/live/83936)
Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie)

GUIDES
Sometimes people write guides and post them in this thread. Other times pro players write guides that people then post in this thread. They often end up here.
General
A General Guide to Support (http://tpesports.net/index.php?site=articles&action=show&articlesID=32), by Math Mage
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575), by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12379254&postcount=98), by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

Specific Champions:
Be warned. These guides are, by and large, outdated. Some (if not much) of the information referenced in these guides has been made obsolete as a result of League's natural patch cycle. If you're looking for information on a champion, you'll have better luck at SoloMid.net (http://solomid.net/guides.php?champ=&sort=2&display=4&x=98&y=9) or LolPro.com (http://LoLPro.com). Alternatively, ask the thread!
Riven 101 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12579737&postcount=204), by Arbitrarity
Highly Artistic Blitzcrank guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115), by Dogmantra
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage
CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE*
Watching these videos makes you a classier person. Fact.
Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

COMICS AND PICS
It's like your eyes are getting a massage.
LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF
TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
Proof we're not all experiencing collective haullucinations.

League of Legends XXXVII: Thread Name Delayed for Further Testing on PBE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253343)
League of Legends XXXVI: Thread Now Invisible When You're Not Looking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250948)
League of Legends XXXV: Jayce, the Defender of Soon™ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248760)
League of Legends XXXIV: No Exceptions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246004)
League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13142848#post13142848)
League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237600)
League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF And Janna! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234631)
League of Legends XXX: Must be Summoner Level 18 to View (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231927)
League of Legends XXIX: Are Nerfs Vayne In This Grave Situation? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229460)
League of Legends XXVIII: Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12466887)
League of Legends XXVII: Your Sister's Hotter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225730)
League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223894)
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵ （╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[TechnOkami]

Wut... I don't... wut...

[Math_Mage]

Wut... I don't... wut...

Silver interpreted Terribad's name as a format to be used for a more specific name. *shrug*

[TechnOkami]

Silver interpreted Terribad's name as a format to be used for a more specific name. *shrug*

...

...

fish...

[sonofzeal]

Yyyyeah, I think the original was less confusing. No offence to Silverraptor's enthusiasm. :smalltongue:

[Neoseanster]

Took some time off from League for GW2, and it looks like I missed a full thread. Huh.

I did a random ranked game tonight to avert elo decay and ended up with Swain. I have become terrible (well, more terrible) at last hitting, but oh good grief is he stronger than Karthus if you don't get hit by every Q. Even if it was a fairly bad Karthus (tear of the goddess and catalyst as first two items? @.@), by level 7 or so he would just die from full if he got close enough for me to EQR, even if I missed my W.

I rather like the world championship hotfix patch notes. Lovely QoL buffs for Caitlyn, Galio, and Miss Fortune, all of whom I greatly enjoy... I can't count the times I've died as Caitlyn because I wasted a net while rooted. Saw the AP ratio nerf on Rengar's W coming, but I don't think it'll make AP Rengar unviable. The removal of the casting time and being able to cast it while moving will add a lot to his reliability. And hey, maybe now people will actually play AD Rengar.

I pretty much was absent since her release, how'd Syndra end up turning out?

[TechnOkami]

I pretty much was absent since her release, how'd Syndra end up turning out?

As far as I know, she has a high skill cap, that when reached is very rewarding but not necessarily cripplingly overpowering.

Also.. could you give me tips on how to Swain? He seems to have fallen out of my grasp as of late in terms of familiarity and power.

[Dallas-Dakota]

How I play Swain.

Spells: Flash+Ignite
Masteries: 21-0-9, going for full AP/magic damage in Offense and mana(regen) and buff mastery in Utility.
Skill: Prioritise: R>E>Q>W

Start either boots+3 or Blue Crystal+1. Depending on how hard you anticipate the opponent to be.
Rush Catalyst. Finish boots 2(Mpen) or ROA, roa if you can get it first.

For laning, land as much safe E's as you can. Throw in a AA after it, it's damage will also be amplified by your E.

Are you OOM or low on mana and pushed? Don't B just yet, just last hit. Your passive gives you back mana if you last hit!

Throw down a combo if you think you can either kill your opponent or the game is in a situation where you can make him B and go gank a sidelane. If one of your sidelanes is pushed or unwarded ganking should be reasonably doable since you have a nice range on your snare. If they're (very) pushed, see if your teammates can initiate first, so that the enemy will blow their flash/escape. Your spells are reliant on a opponent not flashing out of your snare/grasp.

Then build Hat/Hourglass. Hourglass first if you're doing badly or one of their phys is getting fed.

Get spellvamp if you're having sustained combats. It will make much more durable.(Having your ult on constantly for so long is very taxing and not worth it. Try and use it only if you're really taking damage, going for the kill or think you're going to need the health in a bit.

Standard combo: W>E>Q. Turn on R when you feel like it/described above.

Optional items that are very good on Swain: Spirit Visage, Athene's Unholy Grail, Banshees Veil, Guardian Angel.
Optional: Vs Soraka, rush Morello's tome.(Soraka is one of the few people who can reliably beat Swain in lane if they're good. Just try and last hit as much as you can untill you hit 6, when you can outheal her. )
Optional: If you're having trouble chasing, Shurelya's. It may sound weird, but you're a slow champion who likes to stick to their target. Do this if you have enough money but trouble chasing.

[LordShotGun]

I pretty much was absent since her release, how'd Syndra end up turning out?

Overly complicated for not much reward. In other words, I have never felt threatened by a Syndra in lane or in team fights.

World Champion Hot Fixes are out. Buffs to Cait, Ms.Fortune, and Rengar. Nerfs to Vlad and Yorick.

Cait got piltover peace maker buffed

Ms. Fortune got her ultimate and passive buffed

Rengar got his ultimate and passive buffed

Vlad got tides of blood's base values nerfed a tiny bit but the AP ratio is the same

Yorick's ghouls no longer block pathing, are slower at early levels and his W costs more mana.

[ex cathedra]

Threadname makes no sense zzz.


I pretty much was absent since her release, how'd Syndra end up turning out?

There's something extraordinarily wrong with Syndra, and I find this "she's just hard to play" nonsense to be lacking. There's literally no excuse for a champion to have a 26% winrate (http://www.lolking.net/champions/syndra#statistics).


I'd like to be added to the list:

Server: NA
Forum Name: Kotarus
League Name: Adrameleck

I like to play League to an unhealthy degree. Already level 30, just throwing that out there.

In context to the current discussion; there aren't enough supports around. I'm really good at it, I own most of the viable ones, and I enjoy it. Too bad its not a very good way to raise ELO.
Silver, I didn't get around to adding this kid to the first post between a job/Borderlands/a new thread, so be a dear and include him for me.

[Eldariel]

There's something extraordinarily wrong with Syndra, and I find this "she's just hard to play" nonsense to be lacking. There's literally no excuse for a champion to have a 26% winrate (http://www.lolking.net/champions/syndra#statistics).

Hey, Rengar had like no winrate either until people figured him out. It's worth noting that M5 has been playing him as a jungler AD. I think they'll be ecstatic with the hotfix :smallbiggrin:

Tho yeah, Syndra feels kinda Xerathish; really low damage outside ult. Further, everything she does is kinda skillshot (aside from said ult) and her stuff is just plain hard to land so it'll take a long time for people to figure her out.

[sonofzeal]

New personal milestone: instant triple kill, as Morgana.


Is it just me, or does Morgana play like an AP carry, but fit more into the Support role overall? And why is her AA range so piddly? My first game as her someone else called mid so I was laning with Ashe, and let me tell you getting even a single CS was an uphill battle, especially laning against another Ashe and a Lux.

Also, how viable would a team of all support-tagged characters be? Say... Morgana, Teemo, Kayle, Taric, Lux?

[ex cathedra]

Hey, Rengar had like no winrate either until people figured him out. It's worth noting that M5 has been playing him as a jungler AD. I think they'll be ecstatic with the hotfix :smallbiggrin:

There's a difference between 37% winrate and 26%. 37% is actually somewhat believable. League seemingly tends to have champions at the higher and lower ends of the W/L spectrum compared to DotA 2 et al, and 37% is something we've seen a few times.

26%, though? How does that even happen?

Real thoughts on Syndra:
Why is her range so low, why does her Q do so little damage for so much mana, why does her W take so long, and why does her E shoot balls in the most random of directions?

I think that being forced into CDR and/or mana itemization for Q spam really hurts Syndra, too. Even Zyra hits the CDR cap with nothing but W and Blue Buff, and she doesn't even need it as much as Syndra.

[Eldariel]

There's a difference between 37% winrate and 26%. 37% is actually somewhat believable. League seemingly tends to have champions at the higher and lower ends of the W/L spectrum compared to DotA 2 et al, and 37% is something we've seen a few times.

26%, though? How does that even happen?

Real thoughts on Syndra:
Why is her range so low, why does her Q do so little damage for so much mana, why does her W take so long, and why does her E shoot balls in the most random of directions?

I think that being forced into CDR and/or mana itemization for Q spam really hurts Syndra, too. Even Zyra hits the CDR cap with nothing but W and Blue Buff, and she doesn't even need it as much as Syndra.

Clearly Riot was on a roll with Zyra, Jayce & Diana in a row (two already nerfed and Jayce an insanely high priority pick) already so they needed a combobreaker. And Rengar wasn't enough 'cause he snuck away.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Real thoughts on Syndra:
Why is her range so low, why does her Q do so little damage for so much mana, why does her W take so long, and why does her E shoot balls in the most random of directions?

I think that being forced into CDR and/or mana itemization for Q spam really hurts Syndra, too. Even Zyra hits the CDR cap with nothing but W and Blue Buff, and she doesn't even need it as much as Syndra.

I feel Syndra has some pretty large issues though. Her kit feels clunky: I'd expect a character with an ability like Karthus's Q or Cass's Q. I *want* to be able to lay out a zone of control, but Syndra currently can't really have that available at all times due to her high mana costs, meaning she has a warm-up period...on a burst mage. That seems awkward to me.

She also just doesn't really have a passive, which I find uncomfortable. I think they could have just given her the passive abilities as a default without changing much about her kit: the level 5 bonuses don't feel significant enough.

Honestly, I'd have *loved* to see her Q become a low-damage harassing tool with a zone attached to the ball: something like 50/70/90/110/130 (+.55 AP) damage [slightly lower than Karthus's multi-target Q damage, but with a better ratio] that begins a zone .5-1 seconds after placement, slowing those in it by 15-20%. Possibly add some further damage (20/35/50/65/80 +.2 AP or something) for each second spent in the sphere's zone. Stick it on a low (about 2 seconds?) cooldown, and allow Syndra to create a constant zone of low-damage harass and minor CC. This would give her more ability to move into position to utilize her E more efficiently, as well as some more teamfight presence.

With this in mind, I'd give her W a tweak for a better feel: increase the pull range, and add damage in a line as you pull the victim to you, and then the nuke + slow as you throw it. You can now plan some moves better: Q a bit behind your opponent to slow their escape, pull a minion through them with W, and toss it back at them for damage. The clunkiness of the W is now a bit more justified, as you can at least set up some likely damage at the beginning of the combo.

Her E should still be fine with this kit, because you'll have more ability to control sphere placement mid-fight, and thus won't need to run around like crazy for better positioning.

For her Ultimate, you'd have to adjust the damage per sphere, as you'll have more spheres out at a time. I'd also love a change to add damage along the sphere's travel path: a sort of Talon Ultimate effect targeted at an enemy's location.

Finally, gut her passive. That effect isn't that strong to begin with, so just make that stuff standard, or forget about it completely. Maybe make her passive a speed boost when within X units of a sphere, so she's encouraged to fight in and around her spheres, and further encouraged to use them as zoning and control rather than just as damage.

[Ivellius]

New personal milestone: instant triple kill, as Morgana.

...

Also, how viable would a team of all support-tagged characters be? Say... Morgana, Teemo, Kayle, Taric, Lux?

I don't know about that team so much, but an "all-support" team would be easily viable. I think you want Kayle as AD carry, and out of that group it'd be hard to have a decent jungler. You're probably looking at Taric or Morgana there.

Here's decent lane roles for such a team:
Top - Teemo, Nidalee, Shen, Kayle (Karma? Lulu?)
Mid - Karma, Soraka, Lux, Morgana, Galio, Zilean, Lulu
Carry - Kayle (loosely Nidalee or Teemo)
Jungle - Shen, maybe Kayle, though you'd rather have her elsewhere; I also think Karma can jungle
Support - This one's just too easy

Some combination of those ought to work easily enough. Most supports are secondarily mages, so mid lane has a lot of options (probably anyone except Taric or Shen, honestly). The weakest role is AD carry, but Kayle can do that.

[Talesin]

Also, how viable would a team of all support-tagged characters be? Say... Morgana, Teemo, Kayle, Taric, Lux?

My friends and I play all support games every so often and so far we've only lost 1 game and that was due to a DC.

Memorable games for me were with Ad Janna, Ad Lulu, Jungle Lulu and Jungle Karma (though mainly for how much that sucked). But we've played most of the support characters in most of the lanes. We try and run the support characters away from their 'natural' positions, so no AD Kayle and no Jungle Nunu. Also for the support we tend to run a non-support to just really mess the team up.

We've lost all 3 lanes in the laning phase but when it comes to grouping up and teamfighting you can't stop a team that has all the free stats from a farmed tanky Taric, an AP Ali mid who could almost 1 hit kill the enemy AD in a combo (with DFG), an Ad janna with her shield and peels on top of a support Kayle's Ult and a Lulu Ult from the jungler.

I remember HotShot complaining about Lulu top because of the utility she gets from the support tag. But this time you've got 5 of those who all hit moderately hard, but can keep each other alive for much much longer than a traditional team should be able to.

600hp from Lulu Ult, Kayle ult, 2x 200+hp shield from Janna and Lulu. Wouldn't want to try and dive that Ad carry with an unkillable alistar rampaging through the team.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I don't know about that team so much, but an "all-support" team would be easily viable. I think you want Kayle as AD carry, and out of that group it'd be hard to have a decent jungler. You're probably looking at Taric or Morgana there.

Here's decent lane roles for such a team:
Top - Teemo, Nidalee, Shen, Kayle (Karma? Lulu?)
Mid - Karma, Soraka, Lux, Morgana, Galio, Zilean, Lulu
Carry - Kayle (loosely Nidalee or Teemo)
Jungle - Shen, maybe Kayle, though you'd rather have her elsewhere; I also think Karma can jungle
Support - This one's just too easy

Some combination of those ought to work easily enough. Most supports are secondarily mages, so mid lane has a lot of options (probably anyone except Taric or Shen, honestly). The weakest role is AD carry, but Kayle can do that.

Top: Nidalee top, definitely. She's REALLY hard to get out of there.
Mid: Since I don't consider Galio or Morgana to really be supports, I'd say mid is Karma or Lux. Probably Karma, as she can be a monster mid-game, and with a Nidalee top you'll want to really stomp the mid-game before Nid becomes useless.
Jungle: Shen. No question.
Bot Lane: I'd probably favor Kayle / Taric, for the slow + stun + armor reduction + damage, although Sona / Kayle would have a ton more poke, and might be worth picking.

...or the team above me. Totally forgot Ali existed, and the same with AD Janna. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

We've done all-support team comps every so often with Winterwind, Bunny_of_Faith, Adumbration & co. They work extremely well. Actually, in one of those Riot vs. Pros show matches, Riot made the mistake of making Pros play an all-support team. I'm not sure if the Pros had any deaths :smalltongue:

AD Sona is amazing and I maintain she's actually legit. Janna's AP ratios got gutted but she's still okay. She also works AD. Taric's fine AP, Alistar's great AD. Lulu is great as...anything.


Last time (http://imageshack.us/a/img839/7715/allsupport.png) we ran Sona/Nidalee bot, Lulu top, Janna mid & Taric jungle. Obviously not Alistar jungle since that's just too easy.

[sonofzeal]

I don't know about that team so much, but an "all-support" team would be easily viable. I think you want Kayle as AD carry, and out of that group it'd be hard to have a decent jungler. You're probably looking at Taric or Morgana there.

Here's decent lane roles for such a team:
Top - Teemo, Nidalee, Shen, Kayle (Karma? Lulu?)
Mid - Karma, Soraka, Lux, Morgana, Galio, Zilean, Lulu
Carry - Kayle (loosely Nidalee or Teemo)
Jungle - Shen, maybe Kayle, though you'd rather have her elsewhere; I also think Karma can jungle
Support - This one's just too easy

Some combination of those ought to work easily enough. Most supports are secondarily mages, so mid lane has a lot of options (probably anyone except Taric or Shen, honestly). The weakest role is AD carry, but Kayle can do that.
I think Kayle is actually listed as a T1 Jungler, and Teemo can be AD carry since other teammates have CC out the wazoo.

[ZeroNumerous]

I think if you're gonna do all-support, then you can't forget Alistar jungle. I'd swing something like: Top lane Nidalee, AP Janna, AD Sona, Taric Support, Jungle Cow.

[sonofzeal]

Memorable games for me were with Ad Janna, Ad Lulu, Jungle Lulu and Jungle Karma (though mainly for how much that sucked).
Wait...

Wait.
Wait.

What?!?

[ZeroNumerous]

AD Janna has her shield steroid, move speed buff, move speed debuff, and tornado CC. Her range is a bit low though.

[Eldariel]

Wait...

Wait.
Wait.

What?!?

You're new here, aren't you? :3

[Nadevoc]

You're new here, aren't you? :3

I think his point was that it should clearly be standard Janna supporting AD Sona.

[Talesin]

I think his point was that it should clearly be standard Janna supporting AD Sona.

Well we've played most supports as Ad with a variety of things supporting it. Ad Lulu, Ad Sona, Ad Soraka, Ad Janna, Ad Karma supported by Taric, Lux, Janna, Leona.

Every character can work as an Ad carry to some extent, they probably won't rival the traditional Ad carrys due to a lack of certain steroids/mobility enhancers/7 rockets as an ult.

Ad Janna is actually one of the better ones because she does have an AD steroid, though if you're focused its useless, has a flat movespeed steroid that enables her to run through units plus Q and R to peel for herself. Of course all of those things make her a great support because doing the above means you're not AAing 100% of the time as an AD could/should. Yeah the range thing sucks but if you're playing all support its for fun rather than seriousness anyway.

Things we've seen work well:

Top: Taric, Nunu (though I know he's played there by some), Lulu
Mid: Sona, Ali, Janna, Lulu, Nunu
Ad: Janna, Lulu, Sona
Jungle: Janna, Lulu, Karma (though only her sustain/clear speed, she's dire in all other regards)

Janna and Lulu seem to come up pretty often but I would say they have the best kits for playing most of the roles. I think someone like Taric/Nunu would be good ADs if they were ranged and Taric could be played in the jungle.

[Godskook]

I think Kayle is actually listed as a T1 Jungler, and Teemo can be AD carry since other teammates have CC out the wazoo.

If you're referring to Stonewall's list, Kayle's T2, but that's a fairly workable tier in his list, so not much difference.

[ex cathedra]

Mid: Since I don't consider Galio or Morgana to really be supports, I'd say mid is Karma or Lux. Probably Karma, as she can be a monster mid-game, and with a Nidalee top you'll want to really stomp the mid-game before Nid becomes useless.
I find this amusing because A) I don't really consider Karma to be a support and B) Galio is more viable as a support champion than Karma regardless of their tags. At least support Galio has been played by a tournament-level support player, whereas Karma has been played... by pretty much no one. :[

[sonofzeal]

Actually, I was thinking Lulu. Janna's AA is decidedly mediocre and her only ability that synergizes with AD play can be used on someone else, who can then apply their own abilities that also synergize. Lulu isn't much of an AD champ, and she can technically give Pix to others through her E, but it's easier not to. I've heard of AD Lulu before, and it makes some sense to me. But AD Janna just boggles me. IDK.

[Eldariel]

Actually, I was thinking Lulu. Janna's AA is decidedly mediocre and her only ability that synergizes with AD play can be used on someone else, who can then apply their own abilities that also synergize. Lulu isn't much of an AD champ, and she can technically give Pix to others through her E, but it's easier not to. I've heard of AD Lulu before, and it makes some sense to me. But AD Janna just boggles me. IDK.

She's fast. She has a steroid. She has CC. Obviously AD Janna is the best thing ever. Her range is a bit low but hey, once you get strong enough it doesn't really matter :smalltongue: AD Janna works tho I prefer Bruiser Janna just 'cause that way you can get into the fray and towerdive!

[Talesin]

Actually, I was thinking Lulu. Janna's AA is decidedly mediocre and her only ability that synergizes with AD play can be used on someone else, who can then apply their own abilities that also synergize. Lulu isn't much of an AD champ, and she can technically give Pix to others through her E, but it's easier not to. I've heard of AD Lulu before, and it makes some sense to me. But AD Janna just boggles me. IDK.

It's in the interest of fun rather than viability. I'm not going to take Ad Janna into ranked games because although she can do a lot of damage she's not Corki or Ezrael levels of viability.

When we're playing as a 5 we usually beat teams we're against if we play in blind or draft pick and play our strong champs. So we tend to mess around by playing all support, hard random (call a role then hit lock in), 5 man jungle or something like that. We're not playing on the 5s ranked ladder or i'm sure we'd all be playing more traditional champs.

[Silverraptor]

Threadname makes no sense zzz.

That is unfortunate. I was hoping more people were in on the inside joke.

I came up with the name of the thread by thinking most of us hung out on mumble and a large majority of our games were played with that application open. Our mumble server's name is "fish.mumbleboxes.com". At the same time, Djinn would randomly ask people what kind of fish are they and then kick people who did not say they were a halibut. And finally, since every league character had a "the something title", I thought that we were all on the Giant in the Playground forum, adding Giant was good.

Anyways, when I thought this title, I was giggling to myself like mad and was compulsed to make this thread. Sorry if alot of you didn't get it.:smallfrown:


Silver, I didn't get around to adding this kid to the first post between a job/Borderlands/a new thread, so be a dear and include him for me.

Yes, Honey. I've already done that. Now make sure you stop by the grocery store on the way home.:smalltongue:

[ex cathedra]

Sorry if alot of you didn't get it.:smallfrown:
Nonono, I got it (except for the "giant" thing because, come on, that's a bit of a stretch), but it doesn't make sense as a thread title. :smalltongue: So, given my impression, I can only imagine what people who don't frequent the mumble get out of the title.

[Silverraptor]

Nonono, I got it (except for the "giant" thing because, come on, that's a bit of a stretch), but it doesn't make sense as a thread title. :smalltongue: So, given my impression, I can only imagine what people who don't frequent the mumble get out of the title.

Considering some of our other in-joke thread title names that don't make sense, what makes this one so much worse? Also, Phreak always introduces a champion in the champion spotlight that way with "Featuring so-and-so, the something title", so I thought it was a good way to make a silly thread name.

[Winthur]

Nonono, I got it (except for the "giant" thing because, come on, that's a bit of a stretch), but it doesn't make sense as a thread title. :smalltongue: So, given my impression, I can only imagine what people who don't frequent the mumble get out of the title.

Yeah, no fish for further thread titles, it's kind of hard to catch.

And frankly, we've got a bigger fish to fry, like champion spotlights.

I whale on the enemy Fizz, fishing out tons of porridge.

(Yeah, I haven't had my pun boat in quite a while)

(Mumble is a junk champion, man)

[LordShotGun]

Something fishy is going on in here...

[PhoeKun]

Yeah, no fish for further thread titles, it's kind of hard to catch.

And frankly, we've got a bigger fish to fry, like champion spotlights.

I whale on the enemy Fizz, fishing out tons of porridge.

(Yeah, I haven't had my pun boat in quite a while)

(Mumble is a junk champion, man)

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1673/whaledone.png

[Mephit]

If we'd posted just a little bit slower, we could've worked something out with Forellenlord's 3000 Elo.

[PersonMan]

If we'd posted just a little bit slower, we could've worked something out with Forellenlord's 3000 Elo.

Yeah. I actually happen to know about that since I'm randomly reading some LoL threads on their forums.

[Winthur]

If we'd posted just a little bit slower, we could've worked something out with Forellenlord's 3000 Elo.

Frankly, with a thread title we already have, I don't see the porpoise

[PersonMan]

Frankly, with a thread title we already have, I don't see the porpoise

I personally think the current title is a bit ob-skewer.

Meanwhile, I still love sniping with Zyra's E. Think you escaped? Guess again.

[McDouggal]

After playing Ashe for so long, Annie just seems... easymode. Ashe couldn't do head to head; you had to kite and position yourself correctly to win fights. Annie... My god, she has a defensive spell. Upgrade her Q, and I have taken carries from full to half. Oh, and did I mention that Annie has a crowd control spell, and the ability to stun every four shots?

And that Tibbers is hilarious to finish off the group of 3 champions with for the Ace?

I got my first quadra, and would've got a penta if Yi hadn't stole kill #2, my first time playing Annie. This is ungodly.

[Silverraptor]

Yeah, no fish for further thread titles, it's kind of hard to catch.

And frankly, we've got a bigger fish to fry, like champion spotlights.

I whale on the enemy Fizz, fishing out tons of porridge.

(Yeah, I haven't had my pun boat in quite a while)

(Mumble is a junk champion, man)


Something fishy is going on in here...


http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1673/whaledone.png


Frankly, with a thread title we already have, I don't see the porpoise


I personally think the current title is a bit ob-skewer.

Meanwhile, I still love sniping with Zyra's E. Think you escaped? Guess again.

I love you guys.:smallbiggrin:

[Duos]

I'd make a fish pun too, but I'm floundering. None of the ones I can think of are on the same scale.

In other news: I think I'm currently, like, 14/4 with jungle singed. I suppose there's a reason Dyrus has like an 85% win rate with him.

[McDouggal]

Oh, we need to make a fish pun to officially subscribe to the thread?

Something I've always wondered: Do the wall eyes on summoners rift actually see stuff? :smalltongue:

[Winthur]

I'd make a fish pun too, but I'm floundering. None of the ones I can think of are on the same scale.

Top story today! Fizz the tidal trickster has lost his first League of Legends match after an impressive win streak, thought to be caused in large margin by his precise low-blows with his sharp trident. Thought to be unbeatable and often boycotted for this unusual way to gain critical chance with no items or runes, Fizz had been banned from every single draft match since the news of his tactics became widespread. Recently he had made the mistake of admitting in an interview that he'd never commit such an act against anyone from his underwater brethren. As a result, all the male champions began wearing sizable cod pieces.

[Ivellius]

I think Kayle is actually listed as a T1 Jungler, and Teemo can be AD carry since other teammates have CC out the wazoo.

You could flip it that way, although Kayle is better at AD carrying than Teemo, if we're talking in terms of most viable teams.

The thing I love most about this "all-support" discussion is how everyone has forgotten that Alistar isn't actually a support (according to Riot). So if we're going by sonofzeal's initial parameters, you can't include him anywhere.

Edit: No, I'm not making fish puns, even for the halibut.

[McDouggal]

Aside from "Raise AP, time your fourth spell for max effect, and last hit with your Q," any suggestions for Annie play?

[TechnOkami]

...why does all the cool fish stuff happen when I'm asleep? I'm all floppy about it now... fin-nicky even...

[Eldariel]

Aside from "Raise AP, time your fourth spell for max effect, and last hit with your Q," any suggestions for Annie play?

Last hit with Q only if necessary and to scale your passive; her AA range is huge so no need for it otherwise. Burst enemy with QW when you have passive up. Have your passive up for all teamfights, use with your ult (largest range).

[MCerberus]

A conundrum:

Anivia passive is considered OMG OP hax.

However,
When you do well as Anivia, you never get egged.
When you do poorly as Anivia, your egg gets dived.

[Eldariel]

A conundrum:

Anivia passive is considered OMG OP hax.

However,
When you do well as Anivia, you never get egged your egg baits the entire enemy team to dying in a towerdive.
When you do poorly as Anivia, your egg gets dived.

Fixed that for you.

[Silverraptor]

While were at it, lets make up this "Mumble" champion this thread is featuring. What exactly should this champion entail?

[McDouggal]

Can only live in the river.

[Reinboom]

A conundrum:

Anivia passive is considered OMG OP hax.

However,
When you do well as Anivia, you never get egged.
When you do poorly as Anivia, your egg gets dived.

The threat of egging is just as important as the egg itself in higher level play. There are fewer instances you can go all in on Anivia, which as an Anivia lets you get away with more.

Even though you never get egged, the threat thereof is important.

[Joran]

A conundrum:

Anivia passive is considered OMG OP hax.

However,
When you do well as Anivia, you never get egged.
When you do poorly as Anivia, your egg gets dived.

Guardian Angel is frequently the same.

[Eldariel]

The threat of egging is just as important as the egg itself in higher level play. There are fewer instances you can go all in on Anivia, which as an Anivia lets you get away with more.

Even though you never get egged, the threat thereof is important.

Eggbaiting is also a very, very key part of Anivia gameplay, especially since in all the hassle the enemy often doesn't have time to check if the egg is up midfight ^^

[mrcarter11]

So I'm unsure of how effective he'll be, but the Kha'Zix sounds entertaining to me, and is the first champion I'm excited to try since I started playing. The evolving dynamic could be really awesome if the power upgrades are actually significant, unlike what I've heard about Syndra's passive.

And can anyone tell me who else is a void champion?

[Fredaintdead]

So I'm unsure of how effective he'll be, but the Kha'Zix sounds entertaining to me, and is the first champion I'm excited to try since I started playing. The evolving dynamic could be really awesome if the power upgrades are actually significant, unlike what I've heard about Syndra's passive.

And can anyone tell me who else is a void champion?

Kog'Maw, Cho'Gath, Malzahar and Kassadin as far as I'm aware.
And yes, Kha'Zix does sound interesting to say the least.

[Eldariel]

Kog'Maw, Cho'Gath, Malzahar and Kassadin as far as I'm aware.
And yes, Kha'Zix does sound interesting to say the least.

Syndra too!

[Fredaintdead]

Syndra too!

As far as I'm aware/remember, she's just an Ionian who effectively went mad with power (IMO anyway). Or are you referring to the theories that she was Kassadin's daughter?
*shrugs*

[mrcarter11]

So could you do a void themed team comp? And have it be effective.

[Silverraptor]

So could you do a void themed team comp? And have it be effective.

Well lets see. You can have:
-Malzahar/mid
-Cho'gath/top
-Kog'ma/AD Carry
-Kassadin/support
-New character/Jungle

Everything seems legit with the weird kassadin or malzahar supporting thing.

[Eldariel]

As far as I'm aware/remember, she's just an Ionian who effectively went mad with power (IMO anyway). Or are you referring to the theories that she was Kassadin's daughter?
*shrugs*

Ah. They went with that instead. Okay; I remembered her title being "The Void Sovereign" but I guess I'm misremembering things.


Unrelated note, had the closest ARAM I've ever played:
http://imageshack.us/a/img826/2452/aramsorakaclose.png

Sorry about the bad screenshot, I ****ed up a bit and got DFG description on it too. Veigar had DFG, Sorcs, Chalice, Deathcap, Void, NLR (14.3k, 43cs) and Xin had Mercs, Black Cleaver, Trinity, Randuin's, Pickaxe and Vampiric Scepter (15.5k, 53cs).

Game:
I'm Soraka but we still somehow lose early game (Anivia refused to trade with a "sorry" and proceeded to suck). Enemy near-aces us a couple of times and eventually gets our inhib but I finish Aegis and get tanky and we start to turn it around. They push Nexus few times but we respawn just in time to thwart them; we near-ace them 3 times in a row first getting their Inhib, second time one Nexus tower (I'm tanking, now with Frozen Heart) and third time the last Nexus tower.

We go for Nexus but die with it at 27 health; enemy counterpushes against our lone Kennen, we get respawns and save it first from the superstrong Draven and then from the Poppy (who ulted Jayce and almost got it except for an Anivia Wall) at 200 health and then rush to finish. I gotta say, had my adrenaline running few times, that game :smallbiggrin:


Lategame I also had a massive problem; I always survived fights but all the Starcalls and Astral Blessings rapidly consumed my mana and all the health pickups weren't nearly enough to restore it even with the Runic Affinity, Meditation and Mana Manipulator, and we didn't have a single Clarity. Forced me to suicide few times in the enemy base and pray my team can hold on for my respawn; which they luckily did. Also allowed me to finish Abyssal and Rylai's.

[mrcarter11]

Well lets see. You can have:
-Malzahar/mid
-Cho'gath/top
-Kog'ma/AD Carry
-Kassadin/support
-New character/Jungle

Everything seems legit with the weird kassadin or malzahar supporting thing.

Majority of this were my exact thoughts, but as I've never played malz or kass, I didn't know what either was good at. I've never seen malz in general, though I did play against kass a few times as talon, so I know kass can go mid. Malz, still no idea though.

[Godskook]

@Annie usage:

1.Auto is massively long range(equivalent of ~725 spell range). Abuse this for free harass on basically everyone.

2.Annie's got a scary zoning power while her passive is up. Combined with #1, you can easily force someone to choose between dropping into flash-burst kill range or losing CS.

3.Like Malzahar, I suspect that Annie can benefit from split-pen runes, especially cause of tibbers.


Guardian Angel is frequently the same.

As someone who frequently buys GA in ranked, I *STRONGLY* disagree with this sentiment. People at ~1300 Elo are stuck in the "kill the low-HP guy", making GA baiting on a tank decently strong if you rush GA. Can't tell you how many times someone's suicided to 'secure' a kill on me just to proc GA. And that's just my Cho play.

I am also rushing it on Akali, who's a #1 priority kill in fights. Being able to do stupid dives to wipe out their carry, only to have my team follow me in to save my body(I can stealth too) is a huge advantage.

I expect that at higher Elos, GA rush won't be as strong cause people are smarter, but at 1300s, it can basically mean free kills.


Kog'Maw, Cho'Gath, Malzahar and Kassadin as far as I'm aware.
And yes, Kha'Zix does sound interesting to say the least.

Kassadin is less a void champ and more an anti-void champ. He's interacted with it, but he's about as affiliated with it as Viktor is with Piltover.


Syndra too!

I find no evidence of this. Is this speculation or something semi-obscure?

[Eldariel]

I find no evidence of this. Is this speculation or something semi-obscure?

It's my mistake. I had gotten the mistaken impression that she was void-themed.

[ChaosOS]

Iron Stylus confirmed that Kha'Zix is actually Kass' daughter. So yeah. [Source (http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/101y72/champion_sneak_peek_khazix_the_voidreaver_lol/c69optf). Also, reveal (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/khazix-voidreaver-revealed) is up. Seems really cool, if I'm counting correctly he chooses 4 of his 4 abilities to upgrade by level 16 with evolution points.

[Godskook]

Lategame I also had a massive problem; I always survived fights but all the Starcalls and Astral Blessings rapidly consumed my mana and all the health pickups weren't nearly enough to restore it even with the Runic Affinity, Meditation and Mana Manipulator, and we didn't have a single Clarity. Forced me to suicide few times in the enemy base and pray my team can hold on for my respawn; which they luckily did. Also allowed me to finish Abyssal and Rylai's.

Is Athene's banned on Proving grounds? Cause my instinct is to use that instead of Abyssal from what you're describing. 2 more starcalls balance out the shred value, but with more CDR, you getting them all out faster.

[Eldariel]

Is Athene's banned on Proving grounds? Cause my instinct is to use that instead of Abyssal from what you're describing. 2 more starcalls balance out the shred value, but with more CDR, you getting them all out faster.

It's not but there's a slew of problems:
- Two starcalls is still two starcalls behind from where I'd be with Abyssal.
- I already have ~40% CDR (35 + blue pot in this game), so that's a lot of wasted value.
- I have a team heavy on mages. Abyssal is an important aura (granted, Kennen has it too but she had trouble getting in range and surviving so I was mostly applying it while she stood back, threw shurikens and applied Will).
- Chalice doesn't build out of Negatron, which I wanted for the higher MR value earlier on (they have a lot of magic burst including flat penetration in Fiddle so I really want a lot of MR); the finished item would be fairly good but Abyssal still has significantly higher MR value. But the important point was that I left base with ~700 gold so I wanted a Negatron.

It'd definitely solve the mana issues and I like that but I'm thinking the opportunity cost is just too high; Abyssal synergizes amazingly well with a tanky Soraka (and I was tanky as hell; 3k HP, 225 Armor, 195 MR + 40% CDR heals/armor and 9% Spellvamp) as both, Starcall and Abyssal are Magic Resist Reduction so I can nuke enemies into negatives real fast. I'm thinking the right call would've simply been picking up Clarity over Heal.

[Nadevoc]

Two more things about playing Annie:

1) If you expect a level one teamfight (you're invading or you expect to be invaded), grab W at level one and charge the passive. Stunfire cone is crazy good in level one team fights.

2) I like to leave myself one charge short of the stun when wandering around, because people see the stun circle and avoid you getting to stun them. Then when you need to go in, shield and it is suddenly stun times.

[dgnslyr]

I have a sick fetish for Superchalice and think chalice + boots is a great start in ARAM for any mana-using champ. That said, I'd probably get it instead of Soul Shroud. They both give CDR and mana, but Superchalice gives a good deal more of both, alongside AP and MR. Sure, you don't have the aura for your team, but if they wanted mana, they should have bought mana items for themselves. :smalltongue:

[McDouggal]

OK, is there a way to hotkey a potion in your inventory?

[Eldariel]

I have a sick fetish for Superchalice and think chalice + boots is a great start in ARAM for any mana-using champ. That said, I'd probably get it instead of Soul Shroud. They both give CDR and mana, but Superchalice gives a good deal more of both, alongside AP and MR. Sure, you don't have the aura for your team, but if they wanted mana, they should have bought mana items for themselves. :smalltongue:

There's the thing of Soul Shroud giving 520 HP (fourth highest HP on a single non-snowball item in the game, btw, behind Warmog's, Frozen Mallet and full RoA) and a 10% CDR aura to your whole team tho :smalltongue: IMHO it's the most underrated item in ARAM, not to mention the most crucial aura and probably the most underused item in the whole game right now.

The Mana Reg is bonus (though also really nice); giving everybody 10% CDR (basically nobody starts off with over 30% CDR on ARAM so everybody benefits of it) is huge. In a format where you have 4 allies next to you all game, auras are insanely strong and IMHO every team should try to cover at least:
WoTA (basically every champ has damaging abilities)
Soul Shroud (basically every champ has cooldowns)
Aegis (basically every enemy team does either magical or physical damage)

And outside corner cases (enemy has no ADs, you have no APs, you have only one AD), Frozen Heart, Abyssal & Zeke's.


If somebody else was getting Soul Shroud I'd probably go Superchalice (I'd miss the HP but I'd get 40% CDR without Pot and some extra AP and all the mana ever) but as you've probably noticed, you really can't trust pubs to get the aura items they should be getting even if you ask them to cover some.

Particularly bruisers' reluctance to build Aegis confuses me; it's efficient compared to base items for them alone, the aura is just pure bonus.


OK, is there a way to hotkey a potion in your inventory?

By default your inventory slots are hotkeyd to numbers 1-6. Just press the number for the slot the Potion is in to use it. You can change the hotkeys from Options if desired.

[tyckspoon]

The screenshots they chose for Ka'zix.. "No, Rengar, THIS is how you jump on people."

[Godskook]

The screenshots they chose for Ka'zix.. "No, Rengar, THIS is how you jump on people."

I thought the same thing, lol.

[sonofzeal]

Aside from "Raise AP, time your fourth spell for max effect, and last hit with your Q," any suggestions for Annie play?
I'm a bit late, but.....

Your Q is your bread-and-butter, but your W actually does more damage at rank 5, and the damage rises faster. Two or three points in Q will make farming much earlier, but it's often better to max out your W first instead. And a single point in E early (usually lvl 4) will let you charge your passive while out of combat for very cheap mana costs, and also let you surprise enemies by staying one step away from full charge, and then using that E to complete the passive right as they try to dive you. Plus, hey, it's an extra bit of tankiness and damage if they're attacking you.

Annie's weakness is mobility and range - she's practically defenceless past 650 units. Enemies that have to cross that threshhold to engage you can be bullied with impunity if your combo's up, but there's plenty of characters who can engage via skillshots (Ziggs can hit you from something like twice your range), or have leaps that cover more distance (notably Jax with a 700 unit dash). These matchups can go poorly for Annie because she has no way to close into engagement range, or can have the initiative stolen from her with trivial ease.

Thus, good Annie play requires high attention to zoning and zone control. Her zone is limited, but also "hard" in that there's a very small space between "can't hit them at all" and "can unload the full combo with ease". You've got to use that hard boundary to threaten and bully enemies that can't counter it, and be wary of the zoning power of champions who outrange you. Many will only have one major skill that's beyond your range (Lux is an exception in that she has three), so watching for its cooldown can help counter their zoning power and reassert your own.

All that said - I'm not actually good at implementing the above. I used to play Annie a lot, but I'm not even Summoner Lvl 30 yet, so take what I say with a grain of salt and don't think it actually reflects my ability to kick ass and take names. Theory and execution are hardly the same.

Hope that helps!

[Forrestfire]

Aside from "Raise AP, time your fourth spell for max effect, and last hit with your Q," any suggestions for Annie play?

Also a bit late, but since sonofzeal mentioned Lux in his post, I felt that I might elaborate and give some advice, seeing as Lux is my main AP and annie has a severely bad matchup against her.

The main thing to grasp about fighting Lux is that while she has some amazingly strong poke from outside your range, her autoattack's range is only 550, so to get her full burst, the enemy will be trying to duck in and out of that as quickly as possible while still throwing an attack to proc the passive. This is a very short window of opportunity, but it is also the best chance a short-ranged caster has to punish her.

A good lux will max her ball and shield first, and try to kite you until level 6, when she can pretty much full combo you if she lands a snare. However, if you can avoid taking too much damage from her E and passive in the early laning phase, you should be able to avoid being blasted to death the moment she hits 6.

One important bit of trivia about dodging the E is that most of the time, it's aimed behind you, because the first instinct of most players it to run away from a skillshot. I've found moving slightly forward or to the side instead of backwards is a good way to dodge the ball, and it is also a good chance to catch her with some harass of your own, because she will probably be moving forward with the spell in order to proc her passive with an attack.

However, even if you play perfectly and dodge the skillshots while harassing her when she comes to autoattack or farm, you will probably still be at a huge disadvantage. That's where the jungler comes in.

Ask the jungler to gank often. This will not only make the enemy play a bit safer with their mana, but it also has a high probability of killing her if she misses the snare when trying to escape. Lux has some nasty mana issues, so if she drops under 100 mana or so between harass and avoiding a gank, you pretty much have free range to do as you please without worrying about a burst.

Another thing to mention is that, depending on the enemy lux's summoner spell, she can be horrendously dangerous in the first 2 or 3 levels. I alternate between ignite and teleport, because both of them are very strong on lux.

Ignite: If an enemy lux has this spell, be very careful during the first five minutes or so, because if you get caught out of position, you will die. No questions asked. Her level 3 burst is very, very strong if she has landed a few passive procs and harass before she leveled up.
Teleport: This means the lux can roam very easily, and if forced back while it is up, may come back with full mana and burst you to death if you try to push the tower. I would definitely be careful of ganks in other lanes, and also be careful of wards placed in the side bushes, since it's hard to dodge a snare-laser combo if you don't expect anything at all.

I think the best strategy for fighting lux as a short-ranged caster boils down to punishing her when she tries to farm or autoattack and asking your jungler to gank often. In 1v1, she has very few bad matchups, because she can be very versatile due to her strong cc and long range. Watch out for the shield, too; it can be almost as troll as Karma's at times, because it is applied twice.


And that concludes my (probably unnecessary) guide to fighting Lux.

[Godskook]

Annie's weakness is mobility and range - she's practically defenceless past 650 units. Enemies that have to cross that threshhold to engage you can be bullied with impunity if your combo's up, but there's plenty of characters who can engage via skillshots (Ziggs can hit you from something like twice your range), or have leaps that cover more distance (notably Jax with a 700 unit dash). These matchups can go poorly for Annie because she has no way to close into engagement range, or can have the initiative stolen from her with trivial ease.

1.Her pre-6 engagement range(in spells, which is what you're using) is ~725, not 650. You're not taking into account her auto range, which is frakkin huge. (Where did you get 650 from? Nothing on her kit is 650)

2.Her post-6 engagement range is 880, as her ult's got a hefty diameter on it, making stun-bear quite long compared to her normal kit.

Combined, this makes her a lot stronger against Jax than you're letting on. Also, Annie's burst is not to be underestimated. Anyone jumping her needs the ability to avoid paying for that jump with a stun-combo. Jax could do it if he charged up counterstrike, but that's a bit telegraphed, so there's lots of counterplay between the two on that one.

[Terribad]

OK, is there a way to hotkey a potion in your inventory?

You could assign say Slot 6 into any key you want then make sure your pot is always in that slot.

I tend to shift all pots or active items to Slot 1 or 2 for easy access.

[Terribad]

A good lux will max her ball and shield first

Sorry I have to disagree here. Her shield is pretty worthless. I'd rather level Q for the reduced cooldowns.

Lux is so squishy that if you miss your snare to escape, the shield will hardly make a difference. It comes into play more in mid-late game teamfights when you can shield the team, not so much in the laning phase.

[dgnslyr]

There should be options to set key bindings for everything, including item slots, so you could set your items to whatever keys you want. Items are keyed by slot, not by type, so you'll still have to make sure your items are in the right slots.

On the subject of Lux, she's generally rather sub-par as an AP mid. The best thing about her laning is her relatively easy-to-land damage spell, E. Then, when she hits 6, she has a pretty good chance of instagibbing anybody with a full combo, provided she lands her snare.

On the other hand, her mana costs are pretty painful, and her CDs rather terrible for what her spells do, so CDR and mana are key. You know what gives both of those? Superchalice. Have I mentioned my sick fetish for Superchalice? Because Superchalice is magic. I even get CDR boots, just to hit the cap between blue buffs, so I can keep up the rapid-fire spell-spamming.

[sonofzeal]

1.Her pre-6 engagement range(in spells, which is what you're using) is ~725, not 650. You're not taking into account her auto range, which is frakkin huge. (Where did you get 650 from? Nothing on her kit is 650)
Working from memory, sorry.

Her AA range is huge, but unless you're building AD Annie I'm not really going to consider that her "engagement range". Her AA damage scales slower than almost every other champion (Lulu is slowest but her passive compensates), and her attack speed is the worst, at every single level. AA makes a nice harass supplement at lvl 1, but even by lvl 4 I really wouldn't count it as a plus


2.Her post-6 engagement range is 880, as her ult's got a hefty diameter on it, making stun-bear quite long compared to her normal kit.
Tibbers has a cast-range of 600 and a splash of 200, where are you getting the 880 from? And unless you've got the reflexes of a coked-up chipmunk and the distance sense of an OCD machinist, you risk blowing both your ult and your passive. Her actual engagement range is thus something solidly less than 800, depending on how close you're willing to cut it and what your ping is. Mine is fairly high, so I might be overly pessimistic, but I'm still not going to believe there's much of anyone who can nail an 800 range Tibbers-stun reliably against an uncooperative target.


Combined, this makes her a lot stronger against Jax than you're letting on. Also, Annie's burst is not to be underestimated. Anyone jumping her needs the ability to avoid paying for that jump with a stun-combo. Jax could do it if he charged up counterstrike, but that's a bit telegraphed, so there's lots of counterplay between the two on that one.
I don't see Jax caring much about Annie's AA past lvl 3 for the above reasons, and being in melee range makes landing her W much more difficult (at least on my machine with its mediocre ping)

[Forrestfire]

Sorry I have to disagree here. Her shield is pretty worthless. I'd rather level Q for the reduced cooldowns.

Lux is so squishy that if you miss your snare to escape, the shield will hardly make a difference. It comes into play more in mid-late game teamfights when you can shield the team, not so much in the laning phase.

Neat, it's always cool to see other perspectives on champions. I max my shield over the Q because in laning, I'm not going to be spamming the snare enough for the cooldowns to be relevant, whereas the shield is what lets me come out on top of trades. Also, I like being able to use my best CC for only 50 mana, since it makes it easier to save mana for E and later the full burst combo.

[Terribad]

Neat, it's always cool to see other perspectives on champions. I max my shield over the Q because in laning, I'm not going to be spamming the snare enough for the cooldowns to be relevant, whereas the shield is what lets me come out on top of trades. Also, I like being able to use my best CC for only 50 mana, since it makes it easier to save mana for E and later the full burst combo.

I'm not spamming Q in lane either. But I'd like it on lower cooldowns for the inevitable mid-game skirmishes over dragon or during ganks.

Secondly, Lux doesn't do trades. Lux abuses her long range to harass and stay out of range of the opposing mid. During laning phase, I feel its not really worth it to move into AA range just to proc the passive. What I try to do is to poke enough to force the mid to either back (giving me a level advantage) or use up their pots pre-6 so once the ults are in play, the Q-AA-E-R-AA-Ignite combo will do enough damage to kill. I find the extra 50 dmg on Lv 2 Q makes a lot of difference in securing the kill.

Anyway I hope they re-make the shield. Its really horrid. I rather something more light themed or useful. A non-skillshot AOE shield or a cone-shaped effect that does some damage and afflicts Blindness ala this classic:
http://encycl.opentopia.com/enimages/1081/1080422/Taiyoken.jpg

[Chess435]

While we're on the subject of long-range AP casters, can anyone here explain to me how to play Xerath properly?

[Drascin]

Iron Stylus confirmed that Kha'Zix is actually Kass' daughter. So yeah. [Source (http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/101y72/champion_sneak_peek_khazix_the_voidreaver_lol/c69optf). Also, reveal (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/khazix-voidreaver-revealed) is up. Seems really cool, if I'm counting correctly he chooses 4 of his 4 abilities to upgrade by level 16 with evolution points.

If this was actually true it'd be neat. You know, avoid the whole "default everything that is not especifically a hot girl to male" thing that was going on.

[Dienekes]

If this was actually true it'd be neat. You know, avoid the whole "default everything that is not especifically a hot girl to male" thing that was going on.

I doubt it is. Largely because Kassadin had a daughter and they keep referring to this thing as a male. I think it was a joke about that, because Iron Stylus also said Kass is a mother.

[Winthur]

I doubt it is. Largely because Kassadin had a daughter and they keep referring to this thing as a male. I think it was a joke about that, because Iron Stylus also said Kass is a mother.

"That Kass is a bad mother-"
"Shut your mouth!"
"I'm just talkin' 'bout Kass..."

[dgnslyr]

The Void can do strange things to a person, you know, and Kha'Zix could very well be Kassadaughter after experiencing painful, corrupting influence of the Void. Who knows? :smalltongue:

[sonofzeal]

The Void can do strange things to a person, you know, and Kha'Zix could very well be Kassadaughter after experiencing painful, corrupting influence of the Void. Who knows? :smalltongue:
Given that Kha'Zix is obviously a Geiger's Alien reference, couldn't hie just have incubated in Kassadin's chest, thus making him "mother" to it?

[Eldariel]

While we're on the subject of long-range AP casters, can anyone here explain to me how to play Xerath properly?

Q > E > W. Use Q for laning harass and clear, W for landing the finish and for speedbuff. Your kill combo is ERQRR, preferably in Locus. Use map objects like walls and brushes for cover while you hit people with your EQ midgame; the important thing is breaking vision. Build standard AP.

[Silverraptor]

While we're on the subject of long-range AP casters, can anyone here explain to me how to play Xerath properly?


Q > E > W. Use Q for laning harass and clear, W for landing the finish and for speedbuff. Your kill combo is ERQRR, preferably in Locus. Use map objects like walls and brushes for cover while you hit people with your EQ midgame; the important thing is breaking vision. Build standard AP.

Mostly this. However, I try to reserve my kill combo for EQRRQR. I can aim the line pretty well, so I can stun the opponent and get off an extra Q as it comes off cooldown.

For items, I usually start Saph crystal + 2 pots. Get a catalyst and rod of ages. Deathcap, and then standard AP items depending on what you need. MR, get abyssal or banshee's veil. They stacking MR? Get void staff. No idea what to get, Rylais and wota work well to.

Also, when being chased, don't hesitate to throw the EQ combo on your chaser. Even though you stop for a second, it gives you ample time to increase you distance from your chaser. I can't count the number of times I used that combo to escape.

[Eldariel]

Mostly this. However, I try to reserve my kill combo for EQRRQR. I can aim the line pretty well, so I can stun the opponent and get off an extra Q as it comes off cooldown.

For items, I usually start Saph crystal + 2 pots. Get a catalyst and rod of ages. Deathcap, and then standard AP items depending on what you need. MR, get abyssal or banshee's veil. They stacking MR? Get void staff. No idea what to get, Rylais and wota work well to.

Also, when being chased, don't hesitate to throw the EQ combo on your chaser. Even though you stop for a second, it gives you ample time to increase you distance from your chaser. I can't count the number of times I used that combo to escape.

Are you sure you need RoA? I find him kitey enough that he doesn't really need to stack up on defenses overtly much; same reason I wouldn't use Abyssal on him. RoA delays the AP quite a bit; Chalice or Doran's Rings seem to cover for his mana requirements in my experience.

I generally just Deathcap > Void on him most of the time, with a defensive slot if I deem it necessary (e.g. QSS vs. suppression).

[Drascin]

I doubt it is. Largely because Kassadin had a daughter and they keep referring to this thing as a male. I think it was a joke about that, because Iron Stylus also said Kass is a mother.

Oh, I know. It's basically impossible. But would be cool, which is all I said :smalltongue:.

[Godskook]

Her AA range is huge, but unless you're building AD Annie I'm not really going to consider that her "engagement range". Her AA damage scales slower than almost every other champion (Lulu is slowest but her passive compensates), and her attack speed is the worst, at every single level. AA makes a nice harass supplement at lvl 1, but even by lvl 4 I really wouldn't count it as a plus

I don't see Jax caring much about Annie's AA past lvl 3 for the above reasons, and being in melee range makes landing her W much more difficult (at least on my machine with its mediocre ping)

Potions matter in the pre-6 world. That's 150 HP.

Annie's damage to Jax at lvls:
1 - 40.7
2 - 41.57
3 - 42.4
4 - 43.19
5 - 43.94

So, over the entirety of the pre-6 laning phase, Annie takes ~4 autos to negate a potion. And with higher than a .5 AS, she can do it in less than 8 seconds, while the potions take 15 seconds to work.

Basically, Annie can whittle through a boots+3 Jax's potions in 24 seconds with just her Autos.

And that's without split-pen runes(which may be viable).

Also, while Jax v. Annie is almost never going to happen, I have played it, in ranked no less. Jax was useless and denied all laning phase, but top-lane fell apart and cascaded downward against me. Still, the point holds true for other laners who have equally small engagement zones(pre-6 Kassadin and pre-6 Akali for instance).


Tibbers has a cast-range of 600 and a splash of 200, where are you getting the 880 from? And unless you've got the reflexes of a coked-up chipmunk and the distance sense of an OCD machinist, you risk blowing both your ult and your passive. Her actual engagement range is thus something solidly less than 800, depending on how close you're willing to cut it and what your ping is. Mine is fairly high, so I might be overly pessimistic, but I'm still not going to believe there's much of anyone who can nail an 800 range Tibbers-stun reliably against an uncooperative target.

Tibber's Aura is 200 radius.

Summon damage radius is 280.

The wiki is confusing one which is which, but once you read it a couple of times, its quite distinct.

And I'll grant that 880 is *HARD* to land while smartcasting, but its Annie's ult, you can just hard-cast it if you want to land it on someone that far away.

[MCerberus]

I refunded "welp, the loading screen music did not make the champion fun for me" Diana... now I'm not sure if I should insta-buy the next champion or just get Zyra.

edit- or the rune pages, but those are a scam and you only need 2 ever right?

[Silverraptor]

Are you sure you need RoA? I find him kitey enough that he doesn't really need to stack up on defenses overtly much; same reason I wouldn't use Abyssal on him. RoA delays the AP quite a bit; Chalice or Doran's Rings seem to cover for his mana requirements in my experience.

I generally just Deathcap > Void on him most of the time, with a defensive slot if I deem it necessary (e.g. QSS vs. suppression).

Well, I haven't been able to play him much since the Unholy grail addition, but I still like this build. He doesn't have any natural sustain, which he doesn't necessarily need since he's long range, but any damage accumilated really adds up. I get the catalyst so I can trade harass with my enemy, then get the health boost to move in for the kill. Also, any extra health Xerath accumalates stacks with his passive. Often times I get into the mid game with 120 armor from his passive. And his passive is also the most underappreciated thing in his kit. How many brusier like champions are there with gap closers designed to take out the enemy carry/mage? I can't count the times where a xin or garen, or renekton, or any brusier that focuses ad jumps on me, and yet I kill them with barely enough health. Xerath is meant to be long range, but there are those situations where someone gets through the fight and closes on you.

Also, Abyssal and banshee's are situational. Abyssal is mainly for close-range ap-assassins like fizz or akali. The extra MR plus the reduction in their MR can keep you alive longer and be able to place a kill. People underestimate Xerath's power at close range for some reason. However, if they don't have any AP-gap closers but have some long-range AP harass champions, I'll sometimes get BV. Partly because the additional health stacks with his passive Like I said before, but another part is you will be a sitting duck sometimes when you W. The main thing I think about is Nid's spear, and those things hurt.

So yes, I build Xerath as a champion who not only is range, but is able to survive if the enemy somehow manages to close on me and I need to kill, or reposition away from them.

[Godskook]

edit- or the rune pages, but those are a scam and you only need 2 ever right?

I would say the 'need' number is higher than that. Some champs(Akali) have weird rune setups(who else would run AD quints with M-Pen marks?, or AP quints with AD marks? Well, maybe Jax....), and I at least want 2 generic pages per role, so I can customize in champ select.

[Eldariel]

Well, I haven't been able to play him much since the Unholy grail addition, but I still like this build. He doesn't have any natural sustain, which he doesn't necessarily need since he's long range, but any damage accumilated really adds up. I get the catalyst so I can trade harass with my enemy, then get the health boost to move in for the kill. Also, any extra health Xerath accumalates stacks with his passive. Often times I get into the mid game with 120 armor from his passive. And his passive is also the most underappreciated thing in his kit. How many brusier like champions are there with gap closers designed to take out the enemy carry/mage? I can't count the times where a xin or garen, or renekton, or any brusier that focuses ad jumps on me, and yet I kill them with barely enough health. Xerath is meant to be long range, but there are those situations where someone gets through the fight and closes on you.

Also, Abyssal and banshee's are situational. Abyssal is mainly for close-range ap-assassins like fizz or akali. The extra MR plus the reduction in their MR can keep you alive longer and be able to place a kill. People underestimate Xerath's power at close range for some reason. However, if they don't have any AP-gap closers but have some long-range AP harass champions, I'll sometimes get BV. Partly because the additional health stacks with his passive Like I said before, but another part is you will be a sitting duck sometimes when you W. The main thing I think about is Nid's spear, and those things hurt.

So yes, I build Xerath as a champion who not only is range, but is able to survive if the enemy somehow manages to close on me and I need to kill, or reposition away from them.

Generally though, buying RoA/Catalyst just for lane sustain isn't enough value; the full item is 3k and Catalyst is 1325. Compare that to two Doran's Rings and buying a ****ton of potions.

You can get 13 health potions for the price of the combination or about 2000 health restored. That's equivalent to 8 procs of Catalyst, some of which are usually not fully utilized.


Generally, if you buy Catalyst/RoA, you want the mana as it is a huge part of the item's cost is the mana. I don't necessarily feel Xerath needs the mana. Do you feel you don't need the early damage or that he does enough damage with just RoA to warrant postponing Deathcap?

Currently I go Double Doran's or Chalice into Deathcap and Void if enemy has high enough MR opponents to warrant it (generally any bruisers building MR) followed by Rylai's/DFG/Superchalice/Zhonya's/etc.

[Math_Mage]

I would say the 'need' number is higher than that. Some champs(Akali) have weird rune setups(who else would run AD quints with M-Pen marks?, or AP quints with AD marks? Well, maybe Jax....), and I at least want 2 generic pages per role, so I can customize in champ select.

I think he was joking.

Anyway, my opinion is that rune pages are the only RP purchase I want to make as a matter of playing the game. Any other RP I eventually buy would be because I couldn't pass up a skin, and that's a long way from where I am now.

[Qwertystop]

I just thought of a champ idea that is, at the very least, interesting.

Main role would be AD, or possibly AS/Onhit.

Passive, I'm not sure about.

Q and W would have an unusual cooldown system. Their cooldown is stated as the time it takes to do X number of autoattacks. While either one is on cooldown, you cannot cast the other, and you cannot autoattack. Effectively, it has a cost of "your next X autoattacks".

E would have an ammo system (like Teemo's shrooms). It can only be cast when either Q or W are on cooldown. When cast, it "reloads", allowing you to autoattack and cast the other of Q or W, whichever was not on cooldown.

The ult would probably be some kind of AS boost or onhit or something.

[Math_Mage]

I just thought of a champ idea that is, at the very least, interesting.

Main role would be AD, or possibly AS/Onhit.

Passive, I'm not sure about.

Q and W would have an unusual cooldown system. Their cooldown is stated as the time it takes to do X number of autoattacks. While either one is on cooldown, you cannot cast the other, and you cannot autoattack. Effectively, it has a cost of "your next X autoattacks".

E would have an ammo system (like Teemo's shrooms). It can only be cast when either Q or W are on cooldown. When cast, it "reloads", allowing you to autoattack and cast the other of Q or W, whichever was not on cooldown.

The ult would probably be some kind of AS boost or onhit or something.

Workable as a jungler, anything else is suspect because it requires you to push lane if you want your cooldowns up.

[Eldariel]

Hell, it's about damn time. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/visual-upgrade-soraka-starchild) Looks pretty damn good too. Now to decide which skin is the best for her; stick with Dryad or go with Divine, hmm?

[Godskook]

Workable as a jungler, anything else is suspect because it requires you to push lane if you want your cooldowns up.

I could point out Graves and Ezreal, both of which have mechanics that would push the lane in order to get CDs back up. I could also point out Mordekaiser, who's entire schtick is pushing lanes with impunity. Champs who push lanes are viable laners, if they're otherwise given a kit that works with the playstyle that pushing supports.

It really depends on how the champ is set up, as a skill-reliant champ with long auto-requirements would be difficult to lane as an AD carry, well at least bot lane. However, if the skills are less required and more 'bonus'(like Cait's), it could be quite workable.

[Kairaven]

Q and W would have an unusual cooldown system. Their cooldown is stated as the time it takes to do X number of autoattacks. While either one is on cooldown, you cannot cast the other, and you cannot autoattack. Effectively, it has a cost of "your next X autoattacks".


Essentially a more restricted version of Volibear's bite?

[MCerberus]

Hell, it's about damn time. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/visual-upgrade-soraka-starchild) Looks pretty damn good too. Now to decide which skin is the best for her; stick with Dryad or go with Divine, hmm?

Soraka is wearing a shirt now instead of just a tabbard. And to keep the fanservice fans happy, she still doesn't have pants!

[Qwertystop]

Essentially a more restricted version of Volibear's bite?

No. Voli's bite can only be used after you have AAed three times, with no more than four seconds between. This would be "After you use this ability, you cannot AA for <let's say 3 just so we have a number> AA-intervals, where one AA-interval is the time between one AA and the next for your attack speed. When you are affected by a condition that prevents you from AA-ing, you cannot use this ability."

[ex cathedra]

Generally, if you buy Catalyst/RoA, you want the mana as it is a huge part of the item's cost is the mana. I don't necessarily feel Xerath needs the mana. Do you feel you don't need the early damage or that he does enough damage with just RoA to warrant postponing Deathcap?

This is what I was thinking. RoA costs a ton of gold, and that's 3k gold that you aren't spending on your Deathcap, which is really when Xerath's midgame begins to shine. RoA isn't an efficient item on champions who don't need the mana or the HP, and Xerath (relative to most mages) isn't particularly lacking either.

[Kairaven]

No. Voli's bite can only be used after you have AAed three times, with no more than four seconds between. This would be "After you use this ability, you cannot AA for <let's say 3 just so we have a number> AA-intervals, where one AA-interval is the time between one AA and the next for your attack speed. When you are affected by a condition that prevents you from AA-ing, you cannot use this ability."

I see, since most champ start at around 0.5 attack/sec the cooldown is essentially (let's say three AA's) 5+ seconds. and At max AttSpd cap, CD would be 1.2 second.

sounds more like a kit that prevents pushing/farming/last hits rather than helping.

Also at such short CD it just seem rather pointless. If you make the required AA-interval longer it would cripple the champion's early farm game severely. Unless they use E, which unless E has a passive associated with it pretty much means you are robbing the champ of an ability.

edit: didn't mean to sound harsh, just that the mechanic forces certain traits that must be implemented for it to work. For instance Q and W have to be really good in damage or utility to sacrefice AA for it, since AA accounts for a lot more then people realize in fights. E would probably have to have an active short timed or permanent passive AD AA steroid to make up for a lost skill slot.

[Qwertystop]

I see, since most champ start at around 0.5 attack/sec the cooldown is essentially (let's say three AA's) 5+ seconds. and At max AttSpd cap, CD would be 1.2 second.

sounds more like a kit that prevents pushing/farming/last hits rather than helping.

Also at such short CD it just seem rather pointless. If you make the required AA-interval longer it would cripple the champion's early farm game severely. Unless they use E, which unless E has a passive associated with it pretty much means you are robbing the champ of an ability.

edit: didn't mean to sound harsh, just that the mechanic forces certain traits that must be implemented for it to work. For instance Q and W have to be really good in damage or utility to sacrefice AA for it, since AA accounts for a lot more then people realize in fights. E would probably have to have an active short timed or permanent passive AD AA steroid to make up for a lost skill slot.

Well, the cooldown could scale. Maybe it's only one AA at low levels, and it gains one every other rank. E could certainly have a boost to stats, but frankly, Zilean gets by fine with one ability devoted to CDR. Maybe Q is a really big on-next-attack modifier fluffed as shooting several rounds all at once. Maybe W is really long range (as in Noct Ult sort of range) and can be a skillshot if you can't see the area to target someone. What I thought of is more a mechanic than a champ design, but I think it could work if the exact abilities are done right. I don't pretend to know how to balance this stuff, which is why I didn't put in any numbers.

[Godskook]

Well, the cooldown could scale. Maybe it's only one AA at low levels, and it gains one every other rank. E could certainly have a boost to stats, but frankly, Zilean gets by fine with one ability devoted to CDR. Maybe Q is a really big on-next-attack modifier fluffed as shooting several rounds all at once. Maybe W is really long range (as in Noct Ult sort of range) and can be a skillshot if you can't see the area to target someone. What I thought of is more a mechanic than a champ design, but I think it could work if the exact abilities are done right. I don't pretend to know how to balance this stuff, which is why I didn't put in any numbers.

I misunderstood you a little earlier.

I think self-CC, by its nature, is a less-than-fun mechanic. It can be made to work, but the pay-offs generally need to be quite large.

What I understood you to mean was a CD that had no time requirement, just measured in autos required before coming off cooldown. Such a skill could be more easily balanced, and champions who have CD-reduction on hit(spell or auto) are plentiful enough that this is more of a logical extension of those concepts.

Also, as written, the E is basically a non-ult version of Jayce and Nidale ults, but with smaller access to what skills it unlocks.

[Eldariel]

Ok, what's going on with the balancing department in LoL lately? Looking at recent releases, we have:
Syndra: Ridiculously low damage on release, gonna be patched soon (ulti with 6 Orbs is still only .9 AP ratio, E is .4, W is .7, Q with Transcendent is only .575). Q does less damage than Annie Q even with Transcendent, let alone before it. Short range too. High skill cap and mediocre even if mastered.

Rengar: Underpowered AD, patched as AP. Last patch had a lot of buffs and AP nerf for him.

Diana: Ridiculously strong on release, still strong after heavy nerfs.

Jayce: Only recent release to only receive a minor nerf but he has the Irelia-syndrome of having a ridiculous kit; he'll see more nerfs later.

Zyra: Ridiculously strong on release, still strong after heavy nerfs.

Draven: Only balanced recent release, mostly thanks to the axes being hard to pick back up later (meta considerations of wanting jaunts on carries also a part of his unpopularity).

Darius: Ridiculously strong on release, still strong after heavy nerfs.
Out of the recent 7 champions, 4 have been heavily nerfed, 1 has been slightly nerfed (with more nerfs likely in the future), 1 will be heavily buffed and only 1 (6th) is considered broadly balanced.

This with the long test periods before release. This...is significantly worse initial balance than the previous releases for a long time (Hecarim fine, Varus fine, Lulu nerfed as AP, Fiora fine, Nautilus slightly nerfed, Ziggs fine, Sejuani fine). I wonder what's going on in there... Swamped for work and too fast release schedule?

I'd guess so; balancing a 100+ champ game is hard. Still, it isn't overtly complex to Syndra's overall damage output, compare it to other champs in the same role, account for her strategic issues (ult requires Orbs out to do a lot of damage, she has short range and she's hard to use) and adjust the numbers appropriately. This would at least achieve a broad balance; right now she's just off the charts weak.

[Godskook]

I'd guess so; balancing a 100+ champ game is hard. Still, it isn't overtly complex to Syndra's overall damage output, compare it to other champs in the same role, account for her strategic issues (ult requires Orbs out to do a lot of damage, she has short range and she's hard to use) and adjust the numbers appropriately. This would at least achieve a broad balance; right now she's just off the charts weak.

Syndra's 'surprise' burst(read: only sphere is from her current Q):

1463 + 2.275*AP

Syndra's prepared burst:

2003 + 2.725*AP

Annie's burst:

975 + 2.15*AP + Auras + Tibber's auto

Lux's burst:

1380 + 2.05*AP (2 passive procs)

Leblanc's burst:

1317 + 3.76

Ahri's burst:

1235 + 2.86*AP (land all 3 ult charges, 1 spell rotation)

All told, Syndra's damage numbers are fine. She's got enough burst to be a viable mage. Her problem isn't that easy to solve. She needs QoL buffs(her cast animations and times are horrible), and possibly some re-curving on her damage(her early game is crap), but her overall damage values are fine where they are. Her mana and CDs probably need some improvement, but that's all really hard to tell.

[Silverraptor]

Generally though, buying RoA/Catalyst just for lane sustain isn't enough value; the full item is 3k and Catalyst is 1325. Compare that to two Doran's Rings and buying a ****ton of potions.

You can get 13 health potions for the price of the combination or about 2000 health restored. That's equivalent to 8 procs of Catalyst, some of which are usually not fully utilized.


Generally, if you buy Catalyst/RoA, you want the mana as it is a huge part of the item's cost is the mana. I don't necessarily feel Xerath needs the mana. Do you feel you don't need the early damage or that he does enough damage with just RoA to warrant postponing Deathcap?

Currently I go Double Doran's or Chalice into Deathcap and Void if enemy has high enough MR opponents to warrant it (generally any bruisers building MR) followed by Rylai's/DFG/Superchalice/Zhonya's/etc.

Xerath's early damage is still quite good enough to delay the deathcap. His Q is on a pretty quick cooldown and good base damage that warrants a bit of extra mana from the rod cost. Trust me when I say, Rod is a good item on him, or atleast the way I play him. I'm not trying to say this is *THE* only way to play him, but the way that I've adapted my play with him.

[TheShrike]

Syndra doesn't have the damage to reliably kill a bruiser (that's basically in the Cass/Ryze/sometimes Karthus category) and she doesn't have the range/CC/mobility to reliably one-shot the enemy carry. She also doesn't have amazing sieging powers, and her combo (including the stun/knockback) is on an infuriatingly long cooldown. Basically, what is it that she is supposed to do?

[Terribad]

This is what I was thinking. RoA costs a ton of gold, and that's 3k gold that you aren't spending on your Deathcap, which is really when Xerath's midgame begins to shine. RoA isn't an efficient item on champions who don't need the mana or the HP, and Xerath (relative to most mages) isn't particularly lacking either.

I get the "Who to build RoA on" problem alot as well. RoA is good but definitely delays Deathcap which is neccessary on most mages. What are the champions that find RoA situational? I'll kick off

Cassiopeia - This is a real conundrum. I build it if I'm not doing well otherwise its double dorans to Deathcap as Cass can make morale crumble by mid game.

Lux - Again, I don't know. She needs the front loaded damage more but at the same time, too many gap closing jungle types make her range irrelevant in the current meya

Malzahar - I find I usually have to build it on Malz as his spell range is pretty short.

Morgana - Nope. I double dorans to Hourglass then Cap.

Orianna - Is it needed on her? I don't use Ori much but once again short range spells means she needs to build it.

Diana - I don't play her mid. When I jungle I prefer double dorans into Rylais. But almost all the mid Dianas do build RoA, presumably because of her small mana pool

[Eldariel]

I get the "Who to build RoA on" problem alot as well. RoA is good but definitely delays Deathcap which is neccessary on most mages. What are the champions that find RoA situational? I'll kick off

Cassiopeia - This is a real conundrum. I build it if I'm not doing well otherwise its double dorans to Deathcap as Cass can make morale crumble by mid game.

Lux - Again, I don't know. She needs the front loaded damage more but at the same time, too many gap closing jungle types make her range irrelevant in the current meya

Malzahar - I find I usually have to build it on Malz as his spell range is pretty short.

Morgana - Nope. I double dorans to Hourglass then Cap.

Orianna - Is it needed on her? I don't use Ori much but once again short range spells means she needs to build it.

Diana - I don't play her mid. When I jungle I prefer double dorans into Rylais. But almost all the mid Dianas do build RoA, presumably because of her small mana pool

I don't use RoA on any of those regularly (situationally tho on Orianna & Malz in high burst scenarios where I just need flat defenses and expect to get targeted a lot). Only RoA-champs I use are Ryze, Kassadin, Anivia & Karthus since they really need/benefit of the mana.

[Terribad]

I don't use RoA on any of those regularly (situationally tho on Orianna & Malz in high burst scenarios where I just need flat defenses and expect to get targeted a lot). Only RoA-champs I use are Ryze, Kassadin, Anivia & Karthus since they really need/benefit of the mana.

I suppose Swain is included as well?

[Eldariel]

I suppose Swain is included as well?

Yeah, forgot about him (knew I was forgetting somebody). Swain too.

[NineThePuma]

Pentakill Olaf, the Metal Demon Cowboy.

I die a little inside.

[ChaosOS]

While we're on the subject of long-range AP casters, can anyone here explain to me how to play Xerath properly?

Also, figure out how much you can burst for, knowing that you can pen absolutely enormous amounts of MR with your passive and W. Pick people off at 1000 range, it's funny.

[Eldariel]

So, I kinda hate Jayce. Not playing him, he's good fun and all, and while he's thematically bland I've gotten over it. I hate building him tho. His skillset is so schizophrenic I have no idea what I should be building on him.

His Q#1, Q#2 & E#1 want flat AD. His W #2 wants AD + Crit. He wants Penetration and tanky stats. He wants CDR. I'm kinda like, I want to build Trinity on him. Then I notice his base damage is 90 on max level (which is low), his W + abilities makes ASpd practically useless and the AP is of extremely minor benefit on his weakest ability and a minor AP ratio on his shift.

So I wanna build IE but...then what? He doesn't want Flat Pen since he has percentile in his kit so Youmuu's is bad. He doesn't want ASpd so Phantom Dancer is bad. And we covered Trinity already. Build second IE? Dem plays!

[ex cathedra]

Atma's buff pls.

[sonofzeal]

So, I kinda hate Jayce. Not playing him, he's good fun and all, and while he's thematically bland I've gotten over it. I hate building him tho. His skillset is so schizophrenic I have no idea what I should be building on him.

His Q#1, Q#2 & E#1 want flat AD. His W #2 wants AD + Crit. He wants Penetration and tanky stats. He wants CDR. I'm kinda like, I want to build Trinity on him. Then I notice his base damage is 90 on max level (which is low), his W + abilities makes ASpd practically useless and the AP is of extremely minor benefit on his weakest ability and a minor AP ratio on his shift.

So I wanna build IE but...then what? He doesn't want Flat Pen since he has percentile in his kit so Youmuu's is bad. He doesn't want ASpd so Phantom Dancer is bad. And we covered Trinity already. Build second IE? Dem plays!
What about Bloodthirster, Frozen Mallet, and then some defensive items? FoN gives movespeed on top of survivability, and adding a Warmogs for buckets of HP behind that could have nice synergy.

[Eldariel]

What about Bloodthirster, Frozen Mallet, and then some defensive items? FoN gives movespeed on top of survivability, and adding a Warmogs for buckets of HP behind that could have nice synergy.

The issue I'm having is that I want crit itemization to make IE superefficient but I can't find a second crit item that's desirable on this guy. I can certainly fill out the slots but I feel outside Atma's there's nothing to make Crits good and Atma's requires a framework to be worth anything, one I don't think I can create without compromising the other stats.

[dgnslyr]

If that's the case, then don't build IE. IE is really an AD carry item, not a bruiser item. Instead, maybe Bloodthirster? It also gives a raw pile of AD, but for less gold. You miss out on the crit, but since bruiser Jayce doesn't build much crit, it's not as big of a loss.

[ex cathedra]

The issue I'm having is that I want crit itemization to make IE superefficient but I can't find a second crit item that's desirable on this guy. I can certainly fill out the slots but I feel outside Atma's there's nothing to make Crits good and Atma's requires a framework to be worth anything, one I don't think I can create without compromising the other stats.

IE + Atma's + Mallet + Boots? That leaves any combination of GA, Aegis, Maw, Frozen Heart, Randuin's, Shurelya's, Last Whisper, and Bloodthirster open. It's not the most efficient thing but you're hard-pressed to get better crit, yeah?

[sonofzeal]

The issue I'm having is that I want crit itemization to make IE superefficient but I can't find a second crit item that's desirable on this guy. I can certainly fill out the slots but I feel outside Atma's there's nothing to make Crits good and Atma's requires a framework to be worth anything, one I don't think I can create without compromising the other stats.
Anything that increases your damage also increases the amount you crit by. A 100% crit rate with 100 AD is not as good as a 40% crit rate with 200 AD, even after IE's supercrits.

[Eldariel]

Anything that increases your damage also increases the amount you crit by. A 100% crit rate with 100 AD is not as good as a 40% crit rate with 200 AD, even after IE's supercrits.

Aye but crit chance is a multiplier; I'll easily end up with ~300 AD so building 100 more AD is less efficient than building ~18% crit chance & 50 AD with 250% crits. I can certainly stack up on pure AD and that's what I'm going with right now but crits would just give a lot more damage off the gun mode W and make the 2.5* damage crits more reliable which is the bigger reason; I want to be able to estimate how much damage I do in small skirmishes and random chance gets in the way of that so I want as high a crit chance as possible.


IE + Atma's + Mallet + Boots? That leaves any combination of GA, Aegis, Maw, Frozen Heart, Randuin's, Shurelya's, Last Whisper, and Bloodthirster open. It's not the most efficient thing but you're hard-pressed to get better crit, yeah?

That'd be okay except we're talking about an under 3k health Atma's which just feels awfully inefficient with the current stats. Maybe if using some of the remaining items to cover for it... I just can't get it to acceptable numbers tho.


If that's the case, then don't build IE. IE is really an AD carry item, not a bruiser item. Instead, maybe Bloodthirster? It also gives a raw pile of AD, but for less gold. You miss out on the crit, but since bruiser Jayce doesn't build much crit, it's not as big of a loss.

Well, my whole idea here was that if I just get decent crit framework & hit W in gun mode, I insta-melt somebody with 2.5 attack speed crit enforced attacks.

I suppose it's either Atma's, Trinity or go home tho. I don't see any other Crit-item in addition to IE being remotely feasible. Like, we're talking ~40 damage Atma's here.

[NineThePuma]

Mecha Kha'Zix definitely has an advantage over the normal one.

Plus he looks about four times cooler.

[sonofzeal]

Well, then, your options seem to be Avarice Blade (gp10 is good on anyone, and you can sell it later if you really don't want Ghostblade), and Executioner's Calling.

[Eldariel]

Well, then, your options seem to be Avarice Blade (gp10 is good on anyone, and you can sell it later if you really don't want Ghostblade), and Executioner's Calling.

Oooh! I forgot about Executioner's Calling. Holy ****, that might just work! I was just thinking about how to sneak some lifesteal in there anyways. Thank you; you just solved this little puzzle. Have a cookie.

[ChaosOS]

Kha'Zix on PBE; LETS DO THIS! FOR THE SWARM!

[NineThePuma]

Kha'Zix is pretty cool, but Mecha has an unfair advantage and he needs more evolution points, IMO

[Chess435]

Yay, they fixed LoLdrop! (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29473191#29473191)

[Teron]

So I wanna build IE but...then what? He doesn't want Flat Pen since he has percentile in his kit so Youmuu's is bad. He doesn't want ASpd so Phantom Dancer is bad. And we covered Trinity already. Build second IE? Dem plays!
He has a percentage reduction, actually, which means it's applied before any kind of penetration. Since armour negation gets more efficient the more you have, Youmuu's actually synergizes with Jayce's ultimate. For the same reason, the conflict between flat and percentage reduction/penetration is vastly overstated.

[Terribad]

Kha'Zix is pretty cool, but Mecha has an unfair advantage and he needs more evolution points, IMO

It also needs more protoculture matrix.
What would be really cool is subtle changes in skin as it "evolves"
Like this guy!

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100801151152/dragonball/images/thumb/d/dd/CellImperfectFormTheReunionk.png/180px-CellImperfectFormTheReunionk.pnghttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100919141140/dragonball/images/thumb/7/73/CellSecondFormNV...png/180px-CellSecondFormNV...png
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100506142509/dragonball/images/thumb/0/0d/CellPerfectNVVsGoku.png/250px-CellPerfectNVVsGoku.png

[Temotei]

He has a percentage reduction, actually, which means it's applied before any kind of penetration. Since armour negation gets more efficient the more you have, Youmuu's actually synergizes with Jayce's ultimate. For the same reason, the conflict between flat and percentage reduction/penetration is vastly overstated.

I believe he meant his hammer E.

[NineThePuma]

It also needs more protoculture matrix.
What would be really cool is subtle changes in skin as it "evolves"
Like this guy!

He actually does get subtle changes in skin.

Upgrade claws, his claws turn hueg.

Upgrade spikes, his spike launching things on his shoulders get bigger.

Upgrade leap, he grows wings.

Upgrade his ult and he gets recolored on base skin, while Mecha Kha'Zix gets armor plating of awesomeness.

[Teron]

I believe he meant his hammer E.
That would make no sense.

[Godskook]

I believe he meant his hammer E.

It actually reads cleaner if we assume Eld was talking about Jayce's shred, though.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and agree with Teron about the overstatement of the conflict between flat and percentage pen. I mean, c'mon, flat pen's got increasing returns on your investment.

[Terribad]

He actually does get subtle changes in skin.

Upgrade claws, his claws turn hueg.

Upgrade spikes, his spike launching things on his shoulders get bigger.

Upgrade leap, he grows wings.

Upgrade his ult and he gets recolored on base skin, while Mecha Kha'Zix gets armor plating of awesomeness.

Nice! Are you able to upgrade the same skill more than once?

[Math_Mage]

So, I kinda hate Jayce. Not playing him, he's good fun and all, and while he's thematically bland I've gotten over it. I hate building him tho. His skillset is so schizophrenic I have no idea what I should be building on him.

His Q#1, Q#2 & E#1 want flat AD. His W #2 wants AD + Crit. He wants Penetration and tanky stats. He wants CDR. I'm kinda like, I want to build Trinity on him. Then I notice his base damage is 90 on max level (which is low), his W + abilities makes ASpd practically useless and the AP is of extremely minor benefit on his weakest ability and a minor AP ratio on his shift.

So I wanna build IE but...then what? He doesn't want Flat Pen since he has percentile in his kit so Youmuu's is bad. He doesn't want ASpd so Phantom Dancer is bad. And we covered Trinity already. Build second IE? Dem plays!

Laudandus has been spamming Jayce games for a while now, and recently posted this build:

I've been doing a new Jayce build lately, and I've become convinced it's much better than Triforce/BT or BT rush or IE or whatever I was doing before. I go philo/hog first in lane (this works fine because the base damages on Jayce's abilities are so off the charts he can still bully almost anyone). Then I go for the CDR cap as fast as possible, with items like Shurelia's (always), Zeke's (if AD carry is fed) and Frozen Heart (if no one has it). From there I usually complete Randuin's or build Hexdrinker depending on what I need, and after those items generally build a Last Whisper.

At some point in every build I get a phage, so near the end of the game I turn that phage into a Trinity Force or Frozen Mallet depending on how much damage I'm taking in team fights.

With this build I actually think Jayce is broken. He pushes everything I've tested this against (I've run it 10 or so times) out of lane completely, still does extremely high damage because of his ludicrous base values, and builds essentially full tank. His previously awkward scaling has started to feel near-top-tier.

But IE+Executioner's might work too.

[PersonMan]

Hell, it's about damn time. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/visual-upgrade-soraka-starchild) Looks pretty damn good too. Now to decide which skin is the best for her; stick with Dryad or go with Divine, hmm?

Awww yeah. Time to spam Soraka games.

[Winterwind]

Laudandus has been spamming Jayce games for a while now, and recently posted this build:Laudandus' build is fairly similar to what I've been using myself mostly (and since Jayce came out he has probably been my most played champion).

I used to start with Philo Stone (into Shurelya's later), and then get Trinity Force, Frozen Heart, Maw of Malmortius and Last Whisper, in varying order depending on the game. Ninja Tabi or Merc Treads for boots, as the opposition demanded.

I've found though that I was very often winning my lane hard early on, often denying or zoning my lane opponent to a large degree, and Philo Stone didn't give me enough direct combat power to snowball this lead into even more dominance, so if I went Philo Stone and my opponent went for combat items, that would give them a chance to get back into the game. I've therefore started to skip the Philo Stone and instead get Zeke's Herald at some point.

Essentially, I believe CDR is absolutely crucial on Jayce (if nothing else, one wants to be able to switch forms as often as possible), and his base numbers are good enough that damage is generally a secondary concern; tankiness and utility are usually preferable.

[NineThePuma]

Nice! Are you able to upgrade the same skill more than once?

No, sadly.

There's just this super wrong feeling of having one ability unupgraded.

Wings you always want upgraded, though I'd upgrade it second.

I'm not sure on the upgrade to the ult, I think that it'd take a LOT more skill with the champ than I have to make the ult upgrade worth while, but he looks cool with it.

I think the W upgrade might actually be much stronger than we think, and I feel like maxing that first would be reliable, from a laning perspective.

[Laudandus]

Laudandus' build is fairly similar to what I've been using myself mostly (and since Jayce came out he has probably been my most played champion).

I used to start with Philo Stone (into Shurelya's later), and then get Trinity Force, Frozen Heart, Maw of Malmortius and Last Whisper, in varying order depending on the game. Ninja Tabi or Merc Treads for boots, as the opposition demanded.

I've found though that I was very often winning my lane hard early on, often denying or zoning my lane opponent to a large degree, and Philo Stone didn't give me enough direct combat power to snowball this lead into even more dominance, so if I went Philo Stone and my opponent went for combat items, that would give them a chance to get back into the game. I've therefore started to skip the Philo Stone and instead get Zeke's Herald at some point.

Essentially, I believe CDR is absolutely crucial on Jayce (if nothing else, one wants to be able to switch forms as often as possible), and his base numbers are good enough that damage is generally a secondary concern; tankiness and utility are usually preferable.

I find generally that if I'm losing lane as Jayce, it's not because I'm not winning trades but because I'm running out of mana; he can turn mana into free damage with ranged EQ, so I like the Philo for lane dominance.

I can see a build that wants to focus on pure combat strength, and use W hammer passive for mana sustain. His AD scaling actually seems not that good to me, so I'd probably just rush either Glacial Shroud or Hexdrinker, depending on damage type of my lane opponent. Maybe an early vamp scepter, too, to compensate for the sustain lost without early Shurelia's.

[Terribad]

Inspired by a recent LoL music video, I've been playing lots of Crit Runes Gangplank recently. It is insanely hilarious. Anyone not Riven or Jax will eventually succumb to the red numbers of doom.

[Drascin]

So I was trying to try the new Gaul-named bug in PBE, but couldn't because someone else always instalocked him faster. So instead I decided hey why not try Syndra.

My face after the first game:
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/234/765/b7e.jpg

Seriously, she's weird. Pushing the balls into people with E is strange and I barely ever seem to hit. And the balls last way too little to do much piling up. And I have no idea how the ulti works.

Probably the strangest character I've played in this game.

[TechnOkami]

Inspired by a recent LoL music video, I've been playing lots of Crit Runes Gangplank recently. It is insanely hilarious. Anyone not Riven or Jax will eventually succumb to the red numbers of doom.

I too have been on a recent Gangplank splurge, and I highly enjoy the Pirate. Perhaps not Crit Runes Gangplank, but Gangplank nonetheless.

[Tergon]

Aaaah, the glorious sensation of winning a 4v5.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/Selexor/Untitled_zps721b6d78.png

Our Singed disconnected in and out for the first 5-10 minutes before permanently poofing. I was laning bot with Miss Fortune, giving her all of the creep kills against Twitch and Mundo. This would have been a sound strategy and done okay had Singed remained in the game, but then by the twenty minute mark I'd spent all my gold on wards and potions to counter Twitch, and only had a few items. I was also suddenly the closest thing we had to a tank, and with the lineup against us I had to fill the role.

But, a few lucky grabs make the difference, and our MF was very good, as was our Xin. We could turn a teamfight into a 4v4 with one grab from me to initiate it, and with balanced odds we started winning the straight fights. Eventually a battle mid let us take down Zilean and Mundo, and we pushed straight through the inhibitor into their Nexus for the win.

Just one of those really, really great games.

[NineThePuma]

Syndra really really has a stupidly high skill floor.

[PersonMan]

Syndra really really has a stupidly high skill floor.

Unless I've misunderstood the usage of the term, that means that she's incredibly easy to use and is very powerful even when played by people without much skill.

Which goes against everything I've heard and experienced about Syndra. Ever.

[Talesin]

Unless I've misunderstood the usage of the term, that means that she's incredibly easy to use and is very powerful even when played by people without much skill.

Which goes against everything I've heard and experienced about Syndra. Ever.

I've interpreted it as needing a lot of basic mechanics down before you can play a charatcer to a 'viable' level. Ie you need to climb a long way before you pass the skill floor and are then in the place where you can play the champion 'well'.

So someone like Annie has a relatively low skill floor as you just need to work out how to use the passive effectively. Compared to someone like Brand or Cass where you need to combo abilities together to get max damage, and also blow your ult when they are facing you in Cass' case.

In Syndra's case its things like putting the balls in the right place, positioning yourself to land the stun on as many targets as possible while keeping as many balls in play at once so you can land your ult as/when you desire. So using your full kit is hard because there are so many things to think about. Going back to Annie you've just got to get your stun up and then land Q, W or R and then you can unleash full damage on to 1 person.

Obviously its not as simple with Annie as i'm making it out but that's the part between the skill floor and skill ceiling

[Forrestfire]

Unless I've misunderstood the usage of the term, that means that she's incredibly easy to use and is very powerful even when played by people without much skill.

Which goes against everything I've heard and experienced about Syndra. Ever.

No, it means the skill floor, the minimum skill level needed to player her, is incredibly high.

[PersonMan]

No, it means the skill floor, the minimum skill level needed to player her, is incredibly high.

Ah, I've been misinterpreting it, then. I overlapped it with 'champ effectiveness floor/ceiling'.

[Nadevoc]

There's just this super wrong feeling of having one ability unupgraded.

So they did limit it to three upgrade points? Awesome. I saw the idiea, and was really hoping they'd limit it so your choices still matter even end game. I like the idea of being able to customize a character to suit the matchup, but then being locked in to it.

[Forrestfire]

So they did limit it to three upgrade points? Awesome. I saw the idiea, and was really hoping they'd limit it so your choices still matter even end game. I like the idea of being able to customize a character to suit the matchup, but then being locked in to it.

Supposedly he has a hidden passive that if he pentakills, he gets an extra upgrade point.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Supposedly he has a hidden passive that if he pentakills, he gets an extra upgrade point.

...that's the best hidden passive in the game. The others are minor (as in only 1-2 points) of damage or movement speed...this one has the potential to actually be game-changing.

RARE, but game-changing. :smalleek:

[PersonMan]

Supposedly he has a hidden passive that if he pentakills, he gets an extra upgrade point.

I'm surprised nobody has set up a 5v1 premade and fed the guy a penta just to find out.

[Eldariel]

It actually reads cleaner if we assume Eld was talking about Jayce's shred, though.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and agree with Teron about the overstatement of the conflict between flat and percentage pen. I mean, c'mon, flat pen's got increasing returns on your investment.

Yup, this is correct. I read it as penetration, not shred. This actually makes Brutalizer/Youmuu's an interesting option, much like on Monkey & J4. Hmm...


I find generally that if I'm losing lane as Jayce, it's not because I'm not winning trades but because I'm running out of mana; he can turn mana into free damage with ranged EQ, so I like the Philo for lane dominance.

I can see a build that wants to focus on pure combat strength, and use W hammer passive for mana sustain. His AD scaling actually seems not that good to me, so I'd probably just rush either Glacial Shroud or Hexdrinker, depending on damage type of my lane opponent. Maybe an early vamp scepter, too, to compensate for the sustain lost without early Shurelia's.

Yeah, the build I was playing with right now was simply Phage -> FH/Hexdrinker/Aegis and eventually Trinity/Last Whisper. I did not consider Zeke's on him since his personal damage is so ability-heavy but I could see it being decent; I was running 14/16/0 Masteries and AD/Armor/CDR/MR runes so I was hitting 40% CDR (well, 38%) with just FH.


Laudandus' build is fairly similar to what I've been using myself mostly (and since Jayce came out he has probably been my most played champion).

I used to start with Philo Stone (into Shurelya's later), and then get Trinity Force, Frozen Heart, Maw of Malmortius and Last Whisper, in varying order depending on the game. Ninja Tabi or Merc Treads for boots, as the opposition demanded.

I've found though that I was very often winning my lane hard early on, often denying or zoning my lane opponent to a large degree, and Philo Stone didn't give me enough direct combat power to snowball this lead into even more dominance, so if I went Philo Stone and my opponent went for combat items, that would give them a chance to get back into the game. I've therefore started to skip the Philo Stone and instead get Zeke's Herald at some point.

Essentially, I believe CDR is absolutely crucial on Jayce (if nothing else, one wants to be able to switch forms as often as possible), and his base numbers are good enough that damage is generally a secondary concern; tankiness and utility are usually preferable.

Hm. Yeah, it's an interesting question. Feels like he really has multiple equally strong builds; after rereading his ulti passive it appears an ArPen build would be pretty strong actually, and he has both, tanky and squishy options for CDR.

[Eurus]

...that's the best hidden passive in the game. The others are minor (as in only 1-2 points) of damage or movement speed...this one has the potential to actually be game-changing.

RARE, but game-changing. :smalleek:

That's why I'm rather inclined to not believe it without proof, heh.

[NineThePuma]

Sadly, the PBE is currently experiencing too much use, so I can't test it myself.

[MCerberus]

I too have been on a recent Gangplank splurge, and I highly enjoy the Pirate. Perhaps not Crit Runes Gangplank, but Gangplank nonetheless.

The Gangplank run I'm on is Bankplank/Tankplank, who is a Critplank as well!

[ex cathedra]

He has a percentage reduction, actually, which means it's applied before any kind of penetration. Since armour negation gets more efficient the more you have, Youmuu's actually synergizes with Jayce's ultimate. For the same reason, the conflict between flat and percentage reduction/penetration is vastly overstated.

It's reallly just flat and percentage penetration that are problematic, since each percentage point of % pen lowers your effective flat pen by the same percentage. LW reducing your flat ArPen by an additional 36% is pretty huge.

[Zen Master]

Hm.

I'm a little unsure about this new champ. I mean, LoL already has a lictor champion, I can't see how it really needs another one.

Kha'Zix looks like he should have been a new skin for Cho'Gath. The abilities look cool though.

[NineThePuma]

As someone who dedicated a significant chunk of his struggle from level 1 to 30 to cho, Kha'Zix plays VERY VERY differently from Cho. It'd be like comparing Akali to Kennen.

Well, not exactly, but you get the general point; they're not remotely similar in play style, despite being visually and lore wise, similar.

Laning Kha'Zix wants top, wants to harass a whole lot, and then close that gap and turn it into a kill the second an enemy's low and isn't standing pretty much on top of a minion wave.

Laning Cho'Gath gives virtually zero craps about the enemy, and chases them off through liberal use of spells, with his Ult being reserved as either a killing blow or used to build up his stacks. He doesn't have any inbuilt escapes, so he's kind of iffy top, but he works out alright mid.


Visually, yes, I can see how you'd link him with cho. In practice, I don't have any idea who to compare him to. He's this bizarre mishmash of characters, to be honest. He definitely suffers from AD Caster Itemization Syndrome, and while AP isn't totally wasted on him, his AP scaling is really not all that good.

(I've been playing him in ARAMs, Maxing W, rushing ghost blade, and stacking AD; I use him as a mobile artillery platform; sadly, even at max rank with 40% CDR, his W's cool down is too long to do a massive bombardment for zoning purposes, but it's really good at clearing waves.)

[tyckspoon]

Hm.

I'm a little unsure about this new champ. I mean, LoL already has a lictor champion, I can't see how it really needs another one.

Kha'Zix looks like he should have been a new skin for Cho'Gath. The abilities look cool though.

I'd place Cho more as a Carnifex, with the whole HUGE and STOMPY and UNSTOPPABLE and COMING FOR YOU AAAAAAHHH thing.

[Zen Master]

I'd place Cho more as a Carnifex, with the whole HUGE and STOMPY and UNSTOPPABLE and COMING FOR YOU AAAAAAHHH thing.

Hm yea - tank vs assasin, I guess you're right. Still, they are too closely related for my tastes. Soon, we'll have the whole tyranid playlist (well - not that soon, I guess, but still).

[LordShotGun]

So I tried ranked today.

(Solo Que Horror Story inside containing a gunblade chogath)

Don't think I will be going back anytime soon. First and only game we get a guy asking for rammus bans. This sets off a little light in my head saying "DANGER DANGER" but I ignore it and that guy and do not ban rammus. I play kennen versus Cass mid.

That same guy calls jungle and picked cho'gath. Alright no big deal cho is pretty good at jungle. About ten minutes into the game this guy have ganks zero times and out top lane was getting denied hard (garen versus diana).

I didn't need any help mid as I got first blood and 2 other kills when later the jungle maokia dived me and I just flashed into tower and stunned him.

So I tell him to go help top. He tells me to f*** off. Alright so he is a little hostile, ok no big deal it happens, maybe he is having a bad day.

So our top garen versus diana is half her CS and down 2 kills. Despite this he manages to be more helpful then cho'gath the entire rest of the game.

Why?

CHO
BUILT
GUNBLADE
FIRST

At first I thought it was just a troll but the guy adamantly insisted that he got "tons of kills" with it.

Anyway it is now 30 minutes in and I died a few times to diana coming to mid. Our bot lane is doing ok (sona and corki versus nunu kogma) but between diana and maokia jumping our corki, he never really does anything and the enemy kog cleans up.

After trying to talk to him about his build he just starts verbally attacking me in all chat. Even the enemy team got angry at this guy.

So we go from a 12-5 lead at 20 mins to 29-37 by the end of the game.

After game I try to explain to the guy how to build cho jungle but he repeatedly said that his "2000 elo friend riot" always wins with this build.

:smallconfused: :smallconfused: :smallconfused:

THREE WINS

He got to level 30 playing bot games nearly exclusively and then went straight into ranked.

So nah I think I will stick with normals for now.

[Dada]

Don't judge solo queue (and ranked) on a single game. This is the whole reason for the elo hell myth and people complaining about their rating. Elo does not measure your performance in a game, but your performance over a (large) amount of games. Sometimes you will get that gunblade cho, sometimes he will be on the opposing team, and once he and you have played enough games, your elo difference will be large enough that you won't encounter him anymore. With that said, solo queue can definitely be a disheartening an frustrating experience. Don't play it if you don't enjoy it.

On a slightly related note, I am starting to believe in elo hell. Not in the traditional elo hell where it is impossible to get elo due to stupid teammates, but in a rating where it feels like most of the games are decided not by good play, but simply by more or less random throws. I have recently dropped 200ish elo (from 1600 to 1400), which I kinda deserve since I play way worse that I did when I got to 1600. Down in the low 1400s though, it feels like most games (like 75% or so) are decided by afks, leaves, solo adventures in the unwarded enemy jungle, or some guy not understanding that you should not engage on your lane opponent(s) when you are down 3 kills and 2 levels. Am I the only one experiencing this? I kinda feel like it shouldn't be true and that I am falling into some fallacy.

[PhoeKun]

So I tried ranked today.

(Solo Que Horror Story inside containing a gunblade chogath)

Don't think I will be going back anytime soon. First and only game we get a guy asking for rammus bans. This sets off a little light in my head saying "DANGER DANGER" but I ignore it and that guy and do not ban rammus. I play kennen versus Cass mid.

That same guy calls jungle and picked cho'gath. Alright no big deal cho is pretty good at jungle. About ten minutes into the game this guy have ganks zero times and out top lane was getting denied hard (garen versus diana).

I didn't need any help mid as I got first blood and 2 other kills when later the jungle maokia dived me and I just flashed into tower and stunned him.

So I tell him to go help top. He tells me to f*** off. Alright so he is a little hostile, ok no big deal it happens, maybe he is having a bad day.

So our top garen versus diana is half her CS and down 2 kills. Despite this he manages to be more helpful then cho'gath the entire rest of the game.

Why?

CHO
BUILT
GUNBLADE
FIRST

At first I thought it was just a troll but the guy adamantly insisted that he got "tons of kills" with it.

Anyway it is now 30 minutes in and I died a few times to diana coming to mid. Our bot lane is doing ok (sona and corki versus nunu kogma) but between diana and maokia jumping our corki, he never really does anything and the enemy kog cleans up.

After trying to talk to him about his build he just starts verbally attacking me in all chat. Even the enemy team got angry at this guy.

So we go from a 12-5 lead at 20 mins to 29-37 by the end of the game.

After game I try to explain to the guy how to build cho jungle but he repeatedly said that his "2000 elo friend riot" always wins with this build.

:smallconfused: :smallconfused: :smallconfused:

THREE WINS

He got to level 30 playing bot games nearly exclusively and then went straight into ranked.

So nah I think I will stick with normals for now.

Just as a minor clerical note, in ranked score screens, the number of wins displayed is wins in Ranked, not overall wins. Frankly more disturbing are the games where you see people behaving as badly or worse than you described, and you get the end of the game and find out they have 750 wins.

How on earth do you convince yourself to queue up for the exact same elo over and over and over again that many times without ever getting better? Even if you think you're stuck in elo hell, surely you should have either given up or quit and made a smurf a good 300 games back?

[PersonMan]

Why?

CHO
BUILT
GUNBLADE
FIRST

At first I thought it was just a troll but the guy adamantly insisted that he got "tons of kills" with it.

He was obviously Doing It Wrong, because Gunblade is the first big item in my Pain'Gath build if I'm doing well. It's really only a good option if you're stomping the opposition and know you will keep doing so, though.

It's less 'omg this Cho's build is bad' and more like 'this Cho is playing badly and using a build in a game it isn't really appropriate in', IMO. Pain'Gath is basically based on the following assumptions:

-Your HP makes the enemy unable to kill you quickly
-Your damage is killing enemies quickly

The whole point of Pain'Gath is that you use the free HP you get to tank the enemy's low damage (they've been denied by you all game, how could that have good damage?) without defensive items and build pure damage to keep crushing them. In an ideal situation you do this until they /ff. Late game you'd probably need to trade out your items for more normal ones because you'll need defenses beyond runes/masteries and free HP as the enemies catch up.

General Ranked Stuff, not really directly related to this:

I personally only play Ranked when I'm in a 5-man or when a friend of mine says 'hey let's duo queue Ranked', because the only difference between it and normal, in my experience, is:

-Draft mode (I normally play blind pick)
-Rage is more common if you're losing
-People react worse to unusual decisions

I do think this is in part because my normal ELO could be higher than my Ranked one and I can understand why some people want a 'this is competitive mode, get your game on!' play type, though.

[LordShotGun]

The whole point of Pain'Gath is that you use the free HP you get to tank the enemy's low damage (they've been denied by you all game, how could that have good damage?) without defensive items and build pure damage to keep crushing them. In an ideal situation you do this until they /ff. Late game you'd probably need to trade out your items for more normal ones because you'll need defenses beyond runes/masteries and free HP as the enemies catch up.


It was a jungle cho that never ganked. So no denying was going on and the lack of lane farm makes it impossible.

[PersonMan]

It was a jungle cho that never ganked. So no denying was going on and the lack of lane farm makes it impossible.

Hence my 'he was using the build when he shouldn't have been' comment. I was just commenting that the build itself is fine...as long as the right circumstances are there.

It's like building Thornmail when the enemy team is 5 AP. It doesn't make Thornmail a bad item, it's just the wrong choice that game.

[ex cathedra]

Thornmail is a bad item, though.

[MCerberus]

Thornmail is a bad item, though.

It does have its uses, or, as one of its biggest proponents would say, "Okay..."

[Dada]

There are so many good armor items out there, however, that even Rammus should probably stay away from Thornmail except for in extreme cases.

[Joran]

There are so many good armor items out there, however, that even Rammus should probably stay away from Thornmail except for in extreme cases.

But can you put a price on "Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself" ;)

[TheShrike]

Yay, they fixed LoLdrop! (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29473191#29473191)

No they didn't. They partially mitigated some of the damage it causes.

EDIT: HOW CAN ANIVIA DIE?!?!?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nOhTBmvQ5Q)

[Dada]

To be fair you can't really "fix" dos attacks. You can modify your system so the attacks takes a lot of more effort and thus becomes unrealistic, you can mitigate the consequences of a successful attack by designing your system with the risk in mind, and you can go after the bad guys afterwards.

Edit: Oh, and the point. Riot appears to have done the last two, and possibly all three of these things.

[MCerberus]

No they didn't. They partially mitigated some of the damage it causes.

EDIT: HOW CAN ANIVIA DIE?!?!?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nOhTBmvQ5Q)

I think at this point they should replace Anivia's minimap icon with a trollface.

[Neoseanster]

Anyone seen this? This intrigues me.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29448823#29448823

[Winthur]

It does have its uses, or, as one of its biggest proponents would say, "Okay..."

"Okay" as in "Okay, I'm going to stick even more resistances on top of huge resistances I already have just because it will cause me to deal slightly more damage that I won't get to deal because my natural HP is low as hell and causes me to die to a single AP Sion combo or something equally pathetic".

Whenever I see a Rammus rush a Thornmail, I cringe. It's not core. It doesn't help you against magic damage teams. It pretty much gives you just 100 armor, you already have it for when it would be relevant unless you get it baited out of you. Physical casters laugh at it, AD carries can go for an earlier Bloodthirster or some magic resistance and nullify its passive, and then they get Last Whisper so it's not even that good late game. It's stupid.

Get an Aegis. Or Shurelya. Or Randuin. Or even Sunfire. Or hell, go for Warmogs if you are fed enough. Buy an Elixir of Fortitude. You are 3k+ health and enemy physicals hurt too much? Consider Thornmail. Right after considering Frozen Heart, maybe. More damage? You could try Atmas (though its nerfed) and add crit chance on top of your huge AD from armor and HP. Wit's End could even help. Thornmail is just so silly.

[Neoseanster]

It takes a lot of lifesteal and magic resistance to nullify thornmail's damage return - and even once you do, your lifesteal is being nullified. It's a situational item, but in some situations it is useful. Mind, in most situations something else is more useful, but if they have a very autoattack heavy team, it's sometimes nice to grab.

[Winthur]

It takes a lot of lifesteal and magic resistance to nullify thornmail's damage return - and even once you do, your lifesteal is being nullified. It's a situational item, but in some situations it is useful. Mind, in most situations something else is more useful, but if they have a very autoattack heavy team, it's sometimes nice to grab.

Against very autoattack heavy teams I'd be more pressured to finish Frozen Heart honestly unless that can be covered by someone else. Randuin's seems more helpful against them as well. If I had to go fast Frozen Heart after gp/10 items I probably want to go back to getting some health unless their AP carry doesn't exist. And again Thornmail becomes a late item suggestion. It's situational in that it sometimes doesn't even work against the very thing it's supposed to be countering.

[TechnOkami]

The Gangplank run I'm on is Bankplank/Tankplank, who is a Critplank as well!

Slightly different build on my end. Shooting for these items: Merc Treads, Chalice MK I, Infinity Edge, Warmogs, Atma's, Wit's End, and I haven't figured our what to do with that chalice in terms of replacing or upgrading it.

[Silverraptor]

Oooh! I forgot about Executioner's Calling. Holy ****, that might just work! I was just thinking about how to sneak some lifesteal in there anyways. Thank you; you just solved this little puzzle. Have a cookie.


No they didn't. They partially mitigated some of the damage it causes.

EDIT: HOW CAN ANIVIA DIE?!?!?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nOhTBmvQ5Q)

I now want to try running teleport on nivia just to do this!:smallbiggrin:

[Godskook]

It's reallly just flat and percentage penetration that are problematic, since each percentage point of % pen lowers your effective flat pen by the same percentage. LW reducing your flat ArPen by an additional 36% is pretty huge.

Oh hey, let's look at your typically 200 armor target. The caster has no source of flat pen before items, other than the 10% from masteries.

Normal damage:

100/(100 + 200*.9) = 35.71%

With Youmuu's:

100/(100 + 180*.9) = 38.16%

With Last Whisper(and not Youmuu's):

100/(100 + 200*.9*.6) = 48.07%

With both:

100/(100 + 180*.9*.6) = 50.70%

So, without any other source of Pen, Youmuu's alone is granted +2.45% damage. LW alone is granting +12.36% damage. Getting LW after Youmuu's adds +12.54% damage. Getting Youmuu's after LW adds +2.63% damage.

Now let's assume 100 and 300 armor, since those both show up too by the time most people buy LW.

100 armor case:
Without items: 52.63%
With Youmuu's: 58.13%
With LW: 64.93%
With both: 69.83%
Increase of Youmuu's alone: 5.5%
Increase of LW alone: 12.3%
Increase of LW after Youmuu's: 11.7%
Increase of Youmuu's after LW: 4.9%

300 armor case:
Without items: 27.02%
With Youmuu's: 28.40%
With LW: 38.16%
With both: 39.80%
Increase of Youmuu's alone: 1.38%
Increase of LW alone: 11.14%
Increase of LW after Youmuu's: 11.40%
Increase of Youmuu's after LW: 1.64%

Basically, flat and % pen don't synergize only when flat pen is closer to the amount of target's armor, which with just items and the % mastery is near 100 armor. For everyone else, the flat pen may not be valuable enough against that much armor, but its value is only enhanced by LW, not diminished.

What you're really seeing is the diminishing value of armor stacking playing out in the flat pen, since the higher armor is, the less a flat adjustment is worth, relative to a smaller armor value, both positive(by increasing armor) or negative(by increasing flat pen).

[ex cathedra]

Slightly different build on my end. Shooting for these items: Merc Treads, Chalice MK I, Infinity Edge, Warmogs, Atma's, Wit's End, and I haven't figured our what to do with that chalice in terms of replacing or upgrading it.

You know that the Wit's End proc doesn't crit, right?

[Math_Mage]

So I tried ranked today.

(Solo Que Horror Story inside containing a gunblade chogath)

Don't think I will be going back anytime soon. First and only game we get a guy asking for rammus bans. This sets off a little light in my head saying "DANGER DANGER" but I ignore it and that guy and do not ban rammus. I play kennen versus Cass mid.

That same guy calls jungle and picked cho'gath. Alright no big deal cho is pretty good at jungle. About ten minutes into the game this guy have ganks zero times and out top lane was getting denied hard (garen versus diana).

I didn't need any help mid as I got first blood and 2 other kills when later the jungle maokia dived me and I just flashed into tower and stunned him.

So I tell him to go help top. He tells me to f*** off. Alright so he is a little hostile, ok no big deal it happens, maybe he is having a bad day.

So our top garen versus diana is half her CS and down 2 kills. Despite this he manages to be more helpful then cho'gath the entire rest of the game.

Why?

CHO
BUILT
GUNBLADE
FIRST

At first I thought it was just a troll but the guy adamantly insisted that he got "tons of kills" with it.

Anyway it is now 30 minutes in and I died a few times to diana coming to mid. Our bot lane is doing ok (sona and corki versus nunu kogma) but between diana and maokia jumping our corki, he never really does anything and the enemy kog cleans up.

After trying to talk to him about his build he just starts verbally attacking me in all chat. Even the enemy team got angry at this guy.

So we go from a 12-5 lead at 20 mins to 29-37 by the end of the game.

After game I try to explain to the guy how to build cho jungle but he repeatedly said that his "2000 elo friend riot" always wins with this build.

:smallconfused: :smallconfused: :smallconfused:

THREE WINS

He got to level 30 playing bot games nearly exclusively and then went straight into ranked.

So nah I think I will stick with normals for now.
You spent way too much mental energy worrying about this guy's build and play. You're mid, you're ahead, YOU go gank. That's your job as well as his, and Kennen happens to be really good at roaming quickly. Plus, if you're ahead, you're also really good at pushing lane quickly, so that's not the concern it might otherwise be.

More broadly, your solo queue experience will be defined by your ability to doublethink. On the one hand, you want to strive for cooperation and teamwork; on the other hand, you want to ignore your teammates' mistakes and just play your best individual game, and focus on what YOU can do better each game rather than on what your TEAMMATES are doing wrong. To me, teammates playing badly are not horror stories. It feels far worse to be the one feeding and throwing the game for my team.

So yeah, report him for his abusive behavior in chat, but at the same time, you seriously had more important things to do in that game than let his bad play get under your skin in the first place.


Don't judge solo queue (and ranked) on a single game. This is the whole reason for the elo hell myth and people complaining about their rating. Elo does not measure your performance in a game, but your performance over a (large) amount of games. Sometimes you will get that gunblade cho, sometimes he will be on the opposing team, and once he and you have played enough games, your elo difference will be large enough that you won't encounter him anymore. With that said, solo queue can definitely be a disheartening an frustrating experience. Don't play it if you don't enjoy it.

On a slightly related note, I am starting to believe in elo hell. Not in the traditional elo hell where it is impossible to get elo due to stupid teammates, but in a rating where it feels like most of the games are decided not by good play, but simply by more or less random throws. I have recently dropped 200ish elo (from 1600 to 1400), which I kinda deserve since I play way worse that I did when I got to 1600. Down in the low 1400s though, it feels like most games (like 75% or so) are decided by afks, leaves, solo adventures in the unwarded enemy jungle, or some guy not understanding that you should not engage on your lane opponent(s) when you are down 3 kills and 2 levels. Am I the only one experiencing this? I kinda feel like it shouldn't be true and that I am falling into some fallacy.
Well, the thing is, throws are more obvious at 1400, but they're no less game-changing at 1800. And much of it really does come down to babysitting your teammates, ctrl-pinging their solo adventures and telling them to hug turret in lane and so on.


But can you put a price on "Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself" ;)
You cannot. :smallcool:

To respond to the larger conversation on this point, Thornmail Rammus is the "Oh, look, I'm miles ahead of everyone, let me just win the game now" choice. You don't get it to mitigate enemy damage so much as to dive towers.


No they didn't. They partially mitigated some of the damage it causes.

EDIT: HOW CAN ANIVIA DIE?!?!?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nOhTBmvQ5Q)
At least she can't start teleporting while in egg form anymore.


Anyone seen this? This intrigues me.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29448823#29448823
My only concern is with the as-yet unrevealed ramifications of a high Honor score. Otherwise, it looks like a solid implementation.

[MCerberus]

Slightly different build on my end. Shooting for these items: Merc Treads, Chalice MK I, Infinity Edge, Warmogs, Atma's, Wit's End, and I haven't figured our what to do with that chalice in terms of replacing or upgrading it.

I just find the concept of Bankplank hilarious. You're just sitting in a frozen lane where neither party cares to kill each other...

Only you have more gp/5s because you're gangplank and can use three
and you have more assists, because you're gangplank and can ult
and you get more gold per CS, because you're gangplank and can Q

So you just show up somewhere in midgame and stomp face because you have items.

edit- my build usually pans out to:

Boots + 2 + 1 mana -> Philo -> Avarice -> HoG -> Boots of Whatever you Feel like for your Boots -> crit cloak -> 'mog's -> Atma's
Then have an eye to build Reverie, Ghostblade, Omen, IE, and PD in whatever combo and order is necessary.

Combining Ghostblade, Reverie, and Raise Morale is hilarious.

[Godskook]

It takes a lot of lifesteal and magic resistance to nullify thornmail's damage return

To add to this, anyone with Thornmail is going to be breaching 200 armor, at minimum. Without ArPen, it would take exactly 90% lifesteal to break even against the target. More armor and ArPen mess with the equation, but not enough that 1 bloodthirster is going to 'negate' it.

Also, Thornmail is really cheap, at a mere 2k. Since many games don't last long enough for junglers to finish their item builds, that shouldn't be overlooked.

[TechnOkami]

You know that the Wit's End proc doesn't crit, right?

Well, yeah... I thought it was a good idea... well, guess I'll just say it now: that's what I thought would be a half-baked decent build on GP, what would you suggest?

[Godskook]

Well, yeah... I thought it was a good idea... well, guess I'll just say it now: that's what I thought would be a half-baked decent build on GP, what would you suggest?

Maw is the first thing I think of when I want actual AD plus MR.

[Math_Mage]

Well, yeah... I thought it was a good idea... well, guess I'll just say it now: that's what I thought would be a half-baked decent build on GP, what would you suggest?

Ghostblade. Trinity.

[Silverraptor]

So, anyone else in PBE want to test out if the new champ's hidden passive? Just give me a call.

[LordShotGun]

You spent way too much mental energy worrying about this guy's build and play. You're mid, you're ahead, YOU go gank. That's your job as well as his, and Kennen happens to be really good at roaming quickly. Plus, if you're ahead, you're also really good at pushing lane quickly, so that's not the concern it might otherwise be.

I didn't even notice cho's build till after the 20 minute mark and laning had ended and he was dying faster then me in teamfights.

I was versus a cass who usually followed me. This ended up causing my first and only death before 20 minutes as diana was way more helpful in a 2v2 then garen. I did push the lane hard but again, it was a cass and she can do one Q and one W and clean the wave. Eventually I just ignored top and ganked bottom lane which worked out once before the learned to ward.



More broadly, your solo queue experience will be defined by your ability to doublethink. On the one hand, you want to strive for cooperation and teamwork; on the other hand, you want to ignore your teammates' mistakes and just play your best individual game, and focus on what YOU can do better each game rather than on what your TEAMMATES are doing wrong. To me, teammates playing badly are not horror stories. It feels far worse to be the one feeding and throwing the game for my team.


Honestly that was possibly one of my best kennen games. That made it all the more painful when nothing I could do would change the fact that the enemy diana and Amumu were powerful factors in teamfights while garen and cho'gath...were not.



So yeah, report him for his abusive behavior in chat, but at the same time, you seriously had more important things to do in that game than let his bad play get under your skin in the first place.


What really got under my skin was his adamant behavior that his build was the best in the world and that anyone suggesting otherwise was a total noob. Even when I tried to link to cho'gath build guides in post game chat, he would spitefully ignore them.

To sum up, at least my Normal Que hidden ELO has me to the point that I can expect a certain level of play. I realize that I will have to deal with bad people until I reach that skill level again but I just had a poor first game that turned me off.

Again I really wish riot would implement a legitimate replay system so that I could show this and we all could laugh.

[NineThePuma]

So, anyone else in PBE want to test out if the new champ's hidden passive? Just give me a call.

If you're still looking to do so, I'm on the PBE today.

[Kairaven]

Hmmm....I wonder if anyone's ever tried AP Rammus for a Powerball-Tremors nuke?

[Eldariel]

Hmmm....I wonder if anyone's ever tried AP Rammus for a Powerball-Tremors nuke?

Yes. Powerball actually has a really good ratio (1.0) and Tremors isn't bad so it's borderline viable but you need to be tanky enough so it's more like APMumu kinda build where you get tanky AP items (Rylai's much worse on him than Mummy tho) and Cap if you far enough ahead.

[dgnslyr]

Does his Defensive Ball Curl proc Rylais? I heard a short while ago here that it did, but I haven't tried it for myself. If it did, it makes AP Rammus slightly more workable.

[ex cathedra]

Basically, flat and % pen don't synergize only when flat pen is closer to the amount of target's armor, which with just items and the % mastery is near 100 armor. For everyone else, the flat pen may not be valuable enough against that much armor, but its value is only enhanced by LW, not diminished.

What you're really seeing is the diminishing value of armor stacking playing out in the flat pen, since the higher armor is, the less a flat adjustment is worth, relative to a smaller armor value, both positive(by increasing armor) or negative(by increasing flat pen).

Resistances don't have diminishing values relative to anything but the effective health you would get by combining large amounts of resistances and HP. Each point of armor or MR is worth just as much as the next point or the previous point.

Putting it in terms of % damage seems a little bit misleading to me, and you have to consider things in terms of resource costs. That 20 ArPen is strong early game but once you've got a last whisper you'll only be getting 12 or so actual effective armor pen out of it, compared to the amount of Armor Pen you have with just Last Whisper.


To add to this, anyone with Thornmail is going to be breaching 200 armor, at minimum. Without ArPen, it would take exactly 90% lifesteal to break even against the target. More armor and ArPen mess with the equation, but not enough that 1 bloodthirster is going to 'negate' it.
Is this taking MR into account?


Also, Thornmail is really cheap, at a mere 2k. Since many games don't last long enough for junglers to finish their item builds, that shouldn't be overlooked.
Two chain vests provide 90% of the armor that Thornmail provides for 70% of the price, plus they build into better items with better abilities whose effects aren't contingent on the enemy choosing to attack you.

[sonofzeal]

I just bought Rumble, and... weird mechanic, but kinda fun. I went CDR boots, Kage's, Gunblade, Deathcap, and would have grabbed Abyssal next. I also levelled E->Q->W, for more poke and ability to slow enemies. It worked fairly well, but there's usually ways to improve. Any tips?

[Eldariel]

I just bought Rumble, and... weird mechanic, but kinda fun. I went CDR boots, Kage's, Gunblade, Deathcap, and would have grabbed Abyssal next. I also levelled E->Q->W, for more poke and ability to slow enemies. It worked fairly well, but there's usually ways to improve. Any tips?

Sorc shoes, definitely. He hits the heat limit soon enough anyways, CDR is kinda waste, and MPen is just really strong. Also, he's shortish range so he kinda wants to be fairly tanky; I like Abyssal, Zhonya and Rylai's on him (Rylai's slows with his ult/E/Q are stupid strong).

[tyckspoon]

Yes. Powerball actually has a really good ratio (1.0) and Tremors isn't bad so it's borderline viable but you need to be tanky enough so it's more like APMumu kinda build where you get tanky AP items (Rylai's much worse on him than Mummy tho) and Cap if you far enough ahead.

Rylai's does turn Tremors into a giant slow-field. Cooldown is an annoyance, but there's something to be said for having double the area effected over Mummy Tears- having AP Rammus Tremor-ing in the middle of a group (after hopefully smacking a couple of people with Powerball) sounds like one of those 'ok, we're gonna win this teamfight now, k?' events. And of course it evaporates towers in case you're having trouble pushing.

[sonofzeal]

Sorc shoes, definitely. He hits the heat limit soon enough anyways, CDR is kinda waste, and MPen is just really strong. Also, he's shortish range so he kinda wants to be fairly tanky; I like Abyssal, Zhonya and Rylai's on him (Rylai's slows with his ult/E/Q are stupid strong).
For CDR it's because I found I was often using the same ability back-to-back or close enough. His E especially, with good CDR, seems like a great harass tool. I was laning against Warwick, so closing to melee was just asking to get Q'd and mauled, but plinking him with E's every few seconds seemed good and wasn't contributing that much to my Heat. If I'd been spamming all his skills sure, but simply W-ing repeatedly on a long run, or E-ing repeatedly in a skirmish, wasn't causing too much heat and benefited quite a bit from CDR.

[Eldariel]

For CDR it's because I found I was often using the same ability back-to-back or close enough. His E especially, with good CDR, seems like a great harass tool. I was laning against Warwick, so closing to melee was just asking to get Q'd and mauled, but plinking him with E's every few seconds seemed good and wasn't contributing that much to my Heat. If I'd been spamming all his skills sure, but simply W-ing repeatedly on a long run, or E-ing repeatedly in a skirmish, wasn't causing too much heat and benefited quite a bit from CDR.

The E just does more damage with Sorcs tho. It's generally worth more since especially in teamfights and actual engagements you're going to overheat quite fast.

[sonofzeal]

The E just does more damage with Sorcs tho. It's generally worth more since especially in teamfights and actual engagements you're going to overheat quite fast.
Mmm, I can see that. I still think some degree of CDR is good, especially to get that ult up more often since its heat-less. And even Overheating isn't that bad - if your last skill was Flamethrower, you've now got massive melee-range beatdowns for the next few seconds, and you still have summoner spells to get you out of trouble. I'm not saying Overheating can't be dangerous, but doing it intentionally helped me secure at least one kill in the game I was in.

I'd definitely want MPen too though, which is why Abyssal was on my list. ...perhaps I could get MPen from boots and that little bit of CDR from Deathfire?

[Teron]

Putting it in terms of % damage seems a little bit misleading to me, and you have to consider things in terms of resource costs. That 20 ArPen is strong early game but once you've got a last whisper you'll only be getting 12 or so actual effective armor pen out of it, compared to the amount of Armor Pen you have with just Last Whisper.
On the contrary, the damage percentages show the actual effects of ArPen. Your bolded statement is the misleading one; despite the fact that both items' combined ArPen is lower than the sum of their individual values, the actual damage gained is about equal to the sum of their individual gains. Basically, the "flat before percentage" rule doesn't hurt the combination -- it just prevents them from amplifying each other.

Incidentally, sonofzeal, I should point out that, due to the way penetration works, the Sorcerer's Shoes and Abyssal Scepter combination is stronger than the sum of its parts. 40 MPen (well, 20 shred and 20 penetration) increases your damage by more than twice the gain from 20 MPen (assuming your target has at least 40 magic resistance, of course).

[Eldariel]

Mmm, I can see that. I still think some degree of CDR is good, especially to get that ult up more often since its heat-less. And even Overheating isn't that bad - if your last skill was Flamethrower, you've now got massive melee-range beatdowns for the next few seconds, and you still have summoner spells to get you out of trouble. I'm not saying Overheating can't be dangerous, but doing it intentionally helped me secure at least one kill in the game I was in.

I'd definitely want MPen too though, which is why Abyssal was on my list. ...perhaps I could get MPen from boots and that little bit of CDR from Deathfire?

Overheating isn't dangerous but it doesn't meaningfully increase your output either. My point was that you don't really gain anything by building CDR; your damage remains about the same due to heat management. CDR is kind of a zero-sum investment on him.

If I wanted CDR on Rumble, I'd go Deathfire Grasp. Which is probably a good idea anyways.

[TFT]

So, I just had an interesting game:

http://i.imgur.com/HKFGn.jpg

Double ad. But I think what this really shows is what lacking tankiness on a team does to you. Aka everyone building triforces is a bad idea.
:smallcool: I know someone will set up an all triforce game off of this.
Also, I need to farm better in jungle. But I guess going 5/1/2 early makes up for that.

[PersonMan]

After a bot-trolling game during her free week, I've started playing top lane Vayne. My build is different than that one (for better or for worse, I generally stack AS), but it's cool to see that I'm not the only one doing that.

[sonofzeal]

LOCATION: Dominion

SCENE: Poppy has just captured the enemy mid. Jax, Tristana, and Teemo are moving to retake.

Tristana: "I wanna shoot her!"
Jax: "Let's do this!"
Teemo: "Swiftly!"
Poppy: ".........bring it on (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhOrxkGlLDM)."

Jax leaps bravely right into the middle, with Tristana opening fire from the boundary, as Teemo works to suppress the turret... but Poppy is ready and Jax, the master of the counter strike, takes an exhaust to the face and Poppy invokes Diplomatic Immunity. Dismayed at the sudden turn of events, Jax turns and flees.

Poppy stands for a moment, just a moment, her invulnerability still with over seven seconds left. Her eyes meet Tristana's, then Teemo's. A smirk crosses her lips. She raises her hammer. And the turret behind her hums back to life.

Seven seconds later Tristana is dead, Teemo has fled at 10% health, and the turret is still on the side of angels.

....damn I love playing Poppy!




(edit) Oh, and I calculated that in my last game, with her ult up, Poppy's Q was swinging for something in the neighbourhood of 1500 damage. Plus 11.2% of max health. Just her Q alone, nevermind her charge. I Q'd a fed Cho'Gath that way towards the end, for 1800+ damage pre-resist, and 40% MPen. Not sure what the final damage was, but watching a fed Cho'Gath's health bar just turn RED was a lovely sight.

Damn I love playing Poppy!

[Recaiden]

So, anyone else in PBE want to test out if the new champ's hidden passive? Just give me a call.

What is his passive supposed to be?

[Qwertystop]

What is his passive supposed to be?

The hidden one? Free evolution point if he pentakills.

[Kairaven]

The hidden one? Free evolution point if he pentakills.

did we find out if it's true?

[Qwertystop]

did we find out if it's true?

No, that's why they're testing it.

[Kairaven]

I only ask because Silver posted that invite yesterday, and I thought maybe it already have been tested.

on the lol front.

suffering horrible string of lost games as I start on solo ranked. At least it seems that I get my rating. 1102..........
This will be a horrible climb to gold (if ever)

[MCerberus]

Game I was in: Annie claimed that Anivia countered her because of Anivia's ult. I am assuming this is the backwards universe where Anivia wears a goatee.

[McDouggal]

Hahaha! Yi is awesome! I just backdoored 8 towers and 4 inhibs in one game!

Speaking of Yi, I've been building him kind of a combination AP (to maximize his Alpha Strike and his Meditate) and AD lifesteal. What I ended up with last game: Berzerker's Greaves, Nashor's Tooth, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Guardian Angel (which I decided I didn't like. The only times I died were in the middle of a huge-ass gank, and it was just "Oh, kill him again."), Executioner's Calling, and Zeke's Herald.

Suboptimal? almost certainly. I definitely want damage and not speed first thing, which means an AP or AD item. Also, I maxxed out attack speed... WITHOUT Highlander, which was slightly annoying.

There also seems to be a definite trend of CDR added in there as well.

[PersonMan]

Speaking of Yi, I've been building him kind of a combination AP (to maximize his Alpha Strike and his Meditate) and AD lifesteal.

It's generally a better idea to go for one or the other - the great damage/healing via Alpha Strike/Meditate's great AP ratios gets really insane if you stack AP, and Yi's other strengths are from a more normal AD build, but building him hybrid can work. It isn't, as you said, the most optimal choice, but the added damage on his Q and added healing on Meditate is almost always useful, so it isn't the worst, either.

[Math_Mage]

So, so, so, skin idea: Physicist Veigar. It's practically canon anyway, what with the spell names. Lab coat or shirtsleeves, depending on what sort of physicist we're talking about. Throws lab equipment at people.

[MCerberus]

So, so, so, skin idea: Physicist Veigar. It's practically canon anyway, what with the spell names. Lab coat or shirtsleeves, depending on what sort of physicist we're talking about. Throws lab equipment at people.

What about Physics Professor Veigar in a coat with patched elbows firing term papers at people?

[mrcarter11]

I don't personally own any skins, but do the champion animations or what they say change when you put a different skin on? Or are skins purely cosmetic?

[Eldariel]

I don't personally own any skins, but do the champion animations or what they say change when you put a different skin on? Or are skins purely cosmetic?

Depends on the skin. Legendaries generally change everything from animations to voices. 975 generally contain changes (or additions) to animations and cosmetics. 520 skins are generally just altered models.

[Temotei]

I don't personally own any skins, but do the champion animations or what they say change when you put a different skin on? Or are skins purely cosmetic?

You get Nunu Bot for the laugh. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA.

[Triscuitable]

You get Nunu Bot for the laugh. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA.

Arcade Sona has arcade sound effects, and her abilities look significantly different.

[Silverraptor]

I only ask because Silver posted that invite yesterday, and I thought maybe it already have been tested.

on the lol front.

suffering horrible string of lost games as I start on solo ranked. At least it seems that I get my rating. 1102..........
This will be a horrible climb to gold (if ever)

Well, I was suddenly unable to test it out yesterday, but might be able to do it today.

[Mephit]

did we find out if it's true?

I'd be surprised. Hidden passives are usually insignificant stats that will almost never impact the outcome of a game. An evolution point on Ka'Zix is a big deal. Pentas are rare, but not that rare that they wouldn't mention it and pass it off as an easter egg.

[Silverraptor]

I'd be surprised. Hidden passives are usually insignificant stats that will almost never impact the outcome of a game. An evolution point on Ka'Zix is a big deal. Pentas are rare, but not that rare that they wouldn't mention it and pass it off as an easter egg.

Pentas are pretty damn rare. I wouldn't be suprised if this is a hidden passive.

[Eldariel]

What the hell? EUW site is down, server is down and yet they both claim to be up on the Twitter and what-not. O.o

[endoperez]

I don't personally own any skins, but do the champion animations or what they say change when you put a different skin on? Or are skins purely cosmetic?

Yup, but not always. For example, these are quite different:


Gentleman Cho'gath (http://youtu.be/ePzH-Wodvpo)
Corporate Mundo (http://youtu.be/uowSkpo9DfA)
AstroNautilus (http://youtu.be/XwaDL0RgQN8)


There's videos like that for pretty much all skins, so you can check them out before buying.

[Godskook]

What I ended up with last game: Berzerker's Greaves, Nashor's Tooth, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Guardian Angel (which I decided I didn't like. The only times I died were in the middle of a huge-ass gank, and it was just "Oh, kill him again."), Executioner's Calling, and Zeke's Herald.

Nashor's tooth is the only one on that list that screams "NO" to me. Everything else is at least niche/trolly on him. CDR is not a great stat on Yi, thanks to his ult resest mechanic(its not bad, just not great), and Nashor's gives too little AP to justify it as an "AP item". You're basically costing yourself a PD when you build it, and that's definitely not worth the trade.

As I understand Yi, there's 3 ways to build him:

AD Yi, which builds survivability + AD carry(ranging from glass to Atmogs, I'm sure)

AP Yi, which builds like an AP carry

AD conversion, which starts AP by stacking doran's rings, but converts to AD with his major purchases, capitalizing on AP Yi's stronger laning phase.

[Chess435]

I don't know why Nashor's Tooth gets such a bad rap. It's ridiculously Gold-efficient, gives tons of CDR, and quite a few champs can at least decently benefit from all of the stats it gives. I personally like building it on Bruiser Taric, spam all the heals.

[Winthur]

I don't know why Nashor's Tooth gets such a bad rap. It's ridiculously Gold-efficient, gives tons of CDR, and quite a few champs can at least decently benefit from all of the stats it gives. I personally like building it on Bruiser Taric, spam all the heals.

Doesn't satisfy anyone. AP carries don't care for the Attack Speed, bruisers don't get any resistances from it (which is a big deal especially for jungle bruisers that don't get a lot of money and usually need to spend what they have on tankiness and wards), the CDR often becomes superfluous when there are items like Shurelya's, Frozen Heart, Deathfire Grasp and the blue buff, isn't a great late game item and there really are no characters that benefit hugely from Attack Speed *and* Ability Power (that I can think of at 5:42 AM anyway). You could run it on Teemo. Or you could get a better, cheaper on-hit item such as Malady or Wit's End, or go full AP.

It's just severely outstripped in damage and utility. If you wanted better heals on bruiser Taric, you might as well buy Spirit Visage if you focus heals on yourself or go something like Abyssal Scepter (I dunno lol)

It's a bit like Ghostblade which is also quite gold-efficient (especially if you let Avarice Blade sit for a while) but doesn't work too well because Brutalizer is actually the most attractive on AD casters like Riven or Pantheon. That, plus melee carries are rather easily countered. That, and the aforementioned lack of tankiness problem. You might as well run Phantom Dancer if you wanted Ghostblade stats.

[McDouggal]

Actually, on AP Yi into AD Backdoor, it's been working OK. AP boost and AS boost early on, and if it's useless, sell it later.

[Godskook]

I don't know why Nashor's Tooth gets such a bad rap. It's ridiculously Gold-efficient, gives tons of CDR, and quite a few champs can at least decently benefit from all of the stats it gives. I personally like building it on Bruiser Taric, spam all the heals.

I said nothing about Nashor's in general. Just on Yi. CDR is not an efficient stat on him, more so in the case mentioned, where he had 30% CDR from other items(Zeke's and Youmuu's, which are both better items on Yi)

In general, Nashor's a glass DPS item that doesn't give much AP. The problem with that conceptually is that very few people want AS, CDR, and tiny bit of AP without gaining survivability from the deal. I could actually see Taric building it, aside from the fact that Reverie+Zeke's = 30% CDR already, and I don't think most Tarics could justify forgoing them.

[nhbdy]

Well, just did my first PvP match, ever, my friend carried us through it as graves. I played Kayle and mostly hung around a Tryn and only really separated to help with the bigger pushes.

I ended with 0/9/10 so I say I fed, and was pretty bad, but not totally worthless, and there were a few times I escaped a gank. Any good resources for making that transition from Co-op vs AI to PvP? (still level 11 so not planning on PvPing a ton, but prep is nice)

EDIT: on nashor's tooth, it seems to work well with Kayle, for the CD reduction for her "e" and the fact that she uses all of it's stats...

[McDouggal]

If an AI opponent is retreating at half health from a 1v1, it's actually retreating. If a human opponent is doing so, even odds that it's a gank. Treat it accordingly.

[Godskook]

Any good resources for making that transition from Co-op vs AI to PvP?

Our Mumble server, run by Djinn&Co.

[TheShrike]

More possibilities for x8y'asfu's passive. (http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/10bfjg/khazix_rengar_interaction_is_pretty_strong/) Bo, I don't care to look up his name.

[Kairaven]

So... anyone up for a Pentakill premade once Pentakill Olaf is released?

I have PK Morde



also, anyone want to group up seeking for ranked gold? Solo queue increases my ignore lists.

[mrcarter11]

I can offer to play the regular pvp format, but I've no experience with ranked games. Still an offer though if your really sick of solo queue.

[Chess435]

I'd join you guys, but I'm like 950 Elo. :smallfrown:

[mrcarter11]

I'm not actually playing, and I have no idea what my elo is. :smallredface:

[TechnOkami]

I'd join you guys, but I'm like 950 Elo. :smallfrown:

Dude, we won't care how bad you are. We'll give you pointers and you'll get better over time, simple as that.

Also: about Tryndamere... is there anywhere he's actually good in or something he's good at for a team?

[mrcarter11]

Hey if anyone wants to get on Mumble, I'll play.
And I could use all the pointers in the world anyways.

[NineThePuma]

I need to find some people who're willing to run KHa vs Rengar PBE in order to test the various theories regarding their interaction.