Need help getting into the mindset as a DM for a Darksun Campaign.

[Pika...]

Hello everyone,

Somehow I am ending up running a second campaign. I usually run one bi-weekly on Saturdays, but now I will also be running weekly on Sundays for a mix of two players I have recently met and some of my Saturday players.


So, we all met up at Denny's last night and after introductions and some chitchat we discussed what we wanted to play/what I was gonna run. Half the players have played sine the old-school 1ed/2ed days, and being that I essentially got the more mature players of my Saturday night I figured I'd throw out the idea of running a 3.5 Darksun campaign. The idea was immediately an instant hit.

So here is my dilemma. While in my normal campaign I already run a DM Vs. Players mentality (which the new players liked), and it already has a bit of a survivalist mentality, and I already have a player's/PC's actions have consequences (either good or bad ones) mentality (for example, after a few years of playing with me my players know to take things like Winter Outfits when traveling. :smallbiggrin: ) I have never done this on a level which I believe Darksun calls for.

I need help/ideas/inspiration on how to run such a harsh, and survivalist focused campaign. Help/ideas/inspiration on how to run the Darksun settting period would also be appreciated please!

I am about to order some Darksun books off Half.com, and I know there is a semi-official website that has a lot of updated Darksun material for 3.5 (anyone have a link to it please?), but even with the material I would appreciate any advice and help on how to condition my mind and imagination to run such a game.

I am not an outdoors person, and have never even been camping, so I fear I am not skilled enough to run Darksun. I am thinking of watching a Survivorman marathon or something. Maybe some Mad Max type movies too (have never seen it, though)?

I remember I brought Athans up once before on these forums, when my party took a brief Spelljammer visit, and I still remember a quote from one of you. It went something on the lines of "You have NOT played Darksun until you have sat down as a group and discussed who would be the first one the party would kill (and maybe eat) if resources got low". Now THAT is the feel, experience, and mentality I want to give/show my players through my DMing. I want to make/run a campaign where the players have to think, plan, work together, and reason just to survive without even getting to the overall plot.

Many, many Pikas in advance folks!


Ps.
In Darksun, what percent of the game should be survival/resources focused, and what percent plot/campaign arch focused?


Pss.
I already gave the group an initial plot start to think about. Essentially, they are going to start the campaign off on a Spelljammer ship who's captain found a map to this obscure and mostly forgotten Sphere. When the PCs enter Athans they are essentially going to be blown out of the sky my one of those epic preserver ascended beings (sorry, it's name escapes me) who feared the ship would suck even more life from the planet. When they awake in the sand/on the shipwreck they will find that the jammer and maybe most of their supplies are missing. So basically they will be non-Darksun minded and equipped PCs who have crash landed on Athas.

I want to do this for two reasons:
a) The players don't have the old 2.0 material, and only two players are old school and know of/have played Darksun.
b) I hope that this will give me the option of letting the PCs leave Athas if I find I am inept at running a Darksun campaign, and instead I can run some Spelljammer which I am way more familiar with.


Psss.
By the way the party currently consists of:
1. A High Elf Adept (my version of an upgraded Adept for my low-magic cosmology).
2. A Wild Elf (probably a Ranger or Monk knowing him).
3. A Racial Progression Minotaur.
4. Unknown.
5. Unknown.


Pssss.
What level should I start the PCs, as I know most of the Darksun races have at least a +1 LA due to the survivalist nature of Athas?

[prufock]

I can't help much with Dark Sun, as I haven't played it ever, though I like the idea of the setting. You may want to check out the Desert Death (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255028) thread from last week.

However I just wanted to say that I LOVE Survivorman. I've watched the whole 3-season series. Les Stroud is the man, and an accomplished musician. His Beyond Survival series was also interesting. I haven't seen any of the new 10-day Survivorman episodes they're airing now, but I will soon.

Also, a bit of a nitpick, it should be PPS, PPPS, etc. Repeat the "post" part of "post-script," not the "script" part.

[Tokuhara]

Okay.

Dark Sun requires a mentality that is very impersonal. You need to have the players understand that there are 2 BBEGs in DS: Whomever you decide is their final fight and the world itself. Remember the immortal words of Cody Lundin (from Discovery Chennel's Dual Survival): "Mother Nature is a cruel mistress. Either you listen to her and live, or ignore her and die." (do note, I cleaned his statement up for the forums, but that is the gist: Mother Nature is a [censored]. If anyone can correctly quote him, please edit in a quote for me.) When the cacti are trying to kill you, you know it's not a good day.

Now, with the setting, I say roughly half of the adventure is survival. Remember: the average D&D/PF setting skips over travel, whereas in Dark Sun, traveling unprepared is suicide, so plan to use the rules of weather a lot more (heat, dehydration, and wind specifically).

As for level, I highly suggest starting at 5th level. Remember that in 2nd Edition, you Dark Sun "Commoner" was a 3rd level Fighter. Now, I get that DS races are generally 1LA, but this is a case for me to say wiave the 1LA for DS native races (mul, pterrans, half-giants, etc.), since the setting is hardcore enough without tacking on arbitrary level adjustment.

And also, look into Sandstorm for more options. This is basically D&D's equivalent of the Dark Sun book without being a Dark Sun Book.

Hope this helps.
~Toku~

[Pika...]

Thanks for the link Profock. Will come in handy!

And thanks a TON for the advice Toku!!!! It will be very helpful.


Any other advice please folks?

[TexAvery]

The website you're looking for is athas.org, btw.

[NichG]

I guess one thing that pops out at me (and this is only via my familiarity with 2ed Darksun, though) is that Clerics will either be screwed or will be absolutely treasured and fought over by the local populace. Athas is supposedly 'disconnected' from the rest of the multiverse by the Grey and the Black and all the other crap around it, which is why Athasian Clerics have to worship an element instead of a deity. It also is supposed to cut off planar travel except to the elemental planes. So either your Cleric PCs find their magic stops working (screwed), or they find that unlike all the local casters they have a low-level Create Water spell that they can use to negate one of Athas' harshest problems (so everyone wants to capture and enslave them as their personal oasis).

Honestly, while Dark Sun focuses a lot on survival, if you aren't careful the mechanics of D&D will get in the way of that. You can either nerf things, which generally may make players feel cheated unless you're careful, or you bring up the other point about survival. The PCs may have magic and means that make survival trivial for them, fine. But other people don't, and they will be jealous of that. Make NPCs pay attention to things the PCs do that flaunt the normal way the setting works. Make those NPCs sell the information to more powerful people than themselves, even NPCs who seem innocuous (that old man innkeeper, that friendly lady selling cactus pulp, etc). Have these forces ambush the PCs at night in the desert, stealing whatever isn't tied down including PCs if they can, or have a caravan at an oasis give them poisoned food to try to put them asleep so as to kidnap them, or ...

Basically, a hostile world gives rise to a hostile population, especially towards outsiders. This may make the PCs feel like there's nothing in Dark Sun worth risking their lives to save. Normally, that'd be bad for the game, but thats almost the feeling you want to encourage in Dark Sun. You need to replace it with something pressing though, to retain interest.

[fishbrains]

I ran a Dark Sun campaign with 4th edition for several months. It ended when the PC Monk betrayed the rest of the party to a crime lord in Tyr and helped hunt them down and kill them. The group had lots of fun but wanted to move on to something less vicious and full of betrayal so we switched to Eberron.

Regardless, I think I may be able to offer a few tips that come in handy regardless of edition. One thing I always had on my mind in Dark Sun was that the world was out to get them. It's a harsh and brutal land that only the most cunning and ruthless survive. If you want to capture the desperation and deprivation of the world, hound them at every turn and plot hook with some disaster or tyranny. If they forget any little detail about traveling in the desert, don't hand wave it and assume they covered it, punish them for it. Make sure that several of the PCs have survival and knowledge nature skills or they wont last very long at all.

However, don't pitch them against completely impossible odds. Every situation has a solution, and often times it's as simple as "RUN!". Give them a chance to survive, however slim it may be.

I ran the game at a very fast pace. There were few breaks in the adventure and it was all about action. This can wear down on some of your players after a while, and others will find it thrilling. Finding a balance is key. Give them some down time every now and then. One of my players was playing as an escaped slave and former gladiator. I used this as a great method of putting pressure on the group at various points in the game. And even without it immediately involving a party member, the threat of capture and being sold into slavery can always be thrown in at low-mid levels for a little excitement.

Starting level I suggest at least 3. Still early enough where many things are still serious threats, but not so early that the Adept you mentioned is screwed when a house cat decides to pick a fight with him.

I used all kinds of creatures for combat scenarios. There are plenty of unique monsters in Athas, but you can always re-flavor dinosaurs or other creatures for a bit more variety. And don't forget the various factions and such in the world. Veiled Alliance, Druids of the Crescent Forest, different nomadic tribes and Templars can all be friends (or enemies) to the party.