E6 -- Incarnum and Shadow Sun Ninja, Good Idea?

[Talionis]

In E6 (See http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?352719-necro-goodness-E6-The-Game-Inside-D-amp-D if you don't know what E6 is) is there any synergy with Totemist or Incarnate to increase damage of your unarmed attacks of Shadow Sun Ninja?

I was thinking it might be cool to do a martial artist with a Necrocarnum Zombie minion, that he could heal. I would have to get waived the Any Good requirement of SSN which conflicts with the Feat that grants Necrocarnum Soulmelds, but I've never loved alignment and class restrictions and neither has my GM, so I think it won't be a problem. I also think it works with the Fluff of SSN which has you using some of the powers of darkness against darkness.

I was hoping there would also be some cool synergy to use one of the incarnum classes to increase the damage/healing of the SSN's first level ability.

I'd love anyone's ideas, its my first run with Magic of Incarnum and I've always liked the book, but thought it was a bit complicated.

[Snowbluff]

You can pick up a Totemist soulmeld and bind it to your chakra for 2 levels. It will give you some extra natural attacks.

[Flickerdart]

Incarnum classes aren't worth as much in E6, since you can just pick up the melds you want using feats. Totemists are an exception because of their Totem chakra, but most Totem binds just give you a bunch of natural attacks.

[Person_Man]

The Necrocarnum Zombie created by your Necrocarnum Circlet (bound to Crown chakra) has hit dice limited by your meldshaper level. So Incarnate 6 could have a Necrocarnate Zombie (made out of any creature) with up to 6 hit dice, but an Incarnate 2/Something 4 can only have a Necrocarnate Zombie with 2 hit dice, which limits it's usefulness. (Also, Evil Incarnates get the best bonuses, so if ignoring alignment anyway, there's no reason to burn a feat on Necrocarnum Acolyte to get it).

And I wouldn't bother with Shadow Sun Ninja. You can accomplish infinite healing for everyone in your party, including your Necrocarnum Zombie, by using the Soulspark Familiar soulmeld (unbound!) and a Vampiric weapon. Soulspark Familiar has Fast Healing, and Vampiric weapon heals you 1d6 damage every time you hit something with it. So just enchant a sap or dagger with the Vampiric enhancement, and pass it around to beat on your Soulspark Familiar as needed. (Just be careful not to kill it - unlike your zombie, it can't be resummoned for a day). It's somewhat time consuming, but it doesn't consume any other resources, such as class levels or Feats.

And although his general point is correct, I would add a minor caveat to Flickerdart's comment: There are couple of soulmelds which depend on meldshaper level, like Necrocarnum Circlet and Vitality Belt. To use them most effectively, you'll want Incarnate 6 (or Incarnate/PrC). And there are others that require the highest possible essentia capacity to be most useful, like Spellward Shirt or Astral Vembraces or Vitality Belt or Wind Cloack or Mantle of Flame. For them, you want to go Incarnate 3 (for the expanded capacity ability) if you want them at maximum power.

[Answerer]

Though you might be able to convince your DM to allow a Practiced Meldshaper feat a la Practiced Spellcaster. Meldshaper Level is generally less important than Caster Level, IMO. Way less important than Manifester Level...

[Talionis]

Thanks for the great feedback. I like the idea of a Practiced Incarnum User Feat to recover lost meld shaper levels. It probably flies because of transparency rules.

Are there Soulmelds that I could use to increase my unarmed attack damage of Shadow Sun Ninja? Ive always wanted an excuse for using Shadow Sun Ninja and I'd like to have some good combat healing and Higher damage would equal larger healing. But also more damage would keep me competitive.

This post by Person Man was particularly helpful : http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777

[Talionis]

From Person Man's Guide looks like the contenders are:



Totem Avatar soulmeld bound to shoulders chakra slot: +1 effective size with all natural weapons. Magic of Incarnum pg 90.

Mauling Gauntlets soulmeld: 2 + (2 * essentia invested) Morale bonus to Strength checks. If you bind it to your hands chakra slot, the bonus also applies to Unarmed Damage, and you get the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Magic of Incarnum pg 78.

Girillion Arms soulmeld: 2 + (2 * essentia invested) Competence bonus to Grapple and Climb checks. Magic of Incarnum.


Girillion Arms aids in Grapple, but I think if you bind it grants STR bonus and rend, but I'd have to find a way to make multiple attacks. Does anyone else know of any other Soulmelds that would be helpful?

[Flickerdart]

Dread Carapace lets you make advantageous power attacks with natural weapons, but I don't know how useful that would be for your build.

[Person_Man]

Heart of Fire soulmeld bound to your Totem chakra adds 1d4 * essentia invested Fire damage to all natural weapons. So if your DM counts unarmed strike as a natural weapon (which is RAW for the Monk), in an E6 game you could add 3d4 (or 4d4 with a Feat) damage to each attack. But you'd be giving up your precious Totem bind, so it's usually not worth it until ECL 12ish+, since you can get more damage out of Girillion Arms bound to your Totem.

[Talionis]

Would Beast Strike Feat help (Source: Dragon #355)

Benefit: When you make an unarmed strike or grapple check to deal damage, you may add your claw or slam damage to your unarmed trike or grapple damage.

[Flickerdart]

Beast Strike is only really worth it if you're doing Eldritch Claws, Claws of the Beast, or some other method of kicking around with huge claw dice. Adding 1d4 to your unarmed strike damage isn't really worth a feat.

[Snowbluff]

Beast Strike is only really worth it if you're doing Eldritch Claws, Claws of the Beast, or some other method of kicking around with huge claw dice. Adding 1d4 to your unarmed strike damage isn't really worth a feat.

Both of these are great option (Claws of the Beast is the Psiwarrior option, IIRC from my Mistress of Smack build).

Eldritch Claws is awesome with Beast Strike Since you get to add your Eldritch Claw (Eldritch Blast + Unarmed) Damage to your Unarmed Damage. Even if you aren't sitting on a bunch of Warlock CL, you still can use size boosts for double of their effects. Grabbing a Chausible of Fell Power helps even if you can't go far into Warlock with E6.

Claws of the Beast scale with (ML? Augmentation? IDR), and then rack up some nice size bonuses that the Psychic Warrior has built in. Idr how well this works out at low levels, though.

[Flickerdart]

Claws of the Beast scale with augmentation, so a Psychic Warrior will find himself activating the claws at full power somewhat rarely. At later "levels", Psychic Meditation can offset that cost with temporary PP.

[Talionis]

When I said Beast Strike I was thinking that with all the "Claw" Soulmelds at least one of them would be pumpable with Incarnum. I went back last night and checked and I don't think any of them are pumpable past slight damage and to hit bonuses.

Heart of Fire is the closest and that's D4, which is an average of two extra damage per essentia... I think the max I'm looking at is 3 or 4 essentia in an E6 game. That's only like 6 or 8 extra damage per hit, which isn't nothing, but doesn't seem stellar.

I don't think I can unlock my shoulder chakra slot in E6 either can I? That would put the big advantage from the Totem Avatar out too. E6 can sometimes be very confining (but it also does add challenge).

Like I said, I don't know much about MoI, so I appreciate the help.

It looks like I also can use:


Hammerfist, feat: Add 1.5*Str to unarmed damage, cannot flurry or TWF. Races of Faerun pg 164. It may require Dwarf.

Claws of the Wyrm soulmeld bound to hand chakra slot: +1 effective size to claw damage from claws of the wyrm (may not combine with some other abilities). Dragon Magic pg 83. I'll have to look this one up because the doesn't combine with some scares me. But that could give a reason for Beast Strike.


One of the really nice things about E6 is the large number of feats makes a lot of things not normally viable more viable or at the very least possible.

[Psyren]

Totem Avatar bound to totem will give you a morale bonus to damage with natural weapons = essentia. Though I think an additional attack is a better use of that slot myself, unless you can pile on the non-totem attacks somehow (e.g. Warforged with Second Slam + Jaws of Death.)

You have another option for gaining more essentia though - Psycarnum Infusion, which maxes out one of your soulmelds for a round. By moving your essentia somewhere else, you can have 2-3 soulmelds maxed out for most of a fight. Drop a feat on Wild/Hidden Talent to qualify.