Wilder seems better than Psion for non-batman psionics

[danzibr]

In particular, I'm interested in making a character who specializes in AC. One of the major shortcomings of the Wilder is their few powers known, but... well, that's not really an issue for me.

In particular, I'm looking at upping ML. Overchannel is quite slow. I mean, it caps at +3 and by that point Wilder is getting +5. Throw in Quick Recovery and on the chance you do get dazed it shouldn't matter... too much.

Other than the Psion getting some feats and ACF's why go Psion over Wilder if you're not too interested in knowing a ton of powers?

[Psyren]

Having few powers doesn't matter as much at late levels, it's true. But it's while starting out that it's a pain - say, at 1st level when you only know 1 power to the Psion's 3, or 5th when you know 3 powers to his 11, or even 10th when you know only 6 to his 21. Past that point you should have enough toolboxes to handle anything the party can encounter.

The feats matter too. Your Quick Recovery is one more feat tax atop the many that manifesters already have to deal with (Psionic Meditation, Psicrystal Affinity/Containment, Expanded Knowledge etc), and meanwhile the Psion is actually getting extra feats to help out, not to mention potentially needing less EKs than you do depending on discipline (Nomads don't need EK to fly/teleport, Shapers don't need it to summon, Egoists don't need it to shapeshift etc.) Worse, it actually gets harder as you level, because the Will save you have to beat scales with both your level and your Cha modifier - thus, by making yourself stronger you actually make it harder to avoid enervation.

Nobody's saying Wilders are weak - but even with Wild Surge they don't quite measure up to a Psion or Erudite in practice. They do however perform very well when every problem only requires one solution.

[Draz74]

Better Knowledge skills, not needing to spend feats on Discipline-list powers (from one discipline), and the fact that you can still get some of the main advantages of the Wilder through the Anarchic Initiate PrC.

But you're right -- the main reason is variety of Powers, and if you don't care about that, then Wilder isn't a bad class at all.

[Yora]

Wilder isn't bad. It's just intended to be something like a superhero three-trick horse. If you pick the right powers, being able to cast them a lot of times at considerably higher strength is a very valuable ability. Also they have a quite solid base chasis with d6 Hit Dice, 4 skill points, light armor and simple weapons.

At 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level you can use the Expanded Knowledge feat to increase your number of powers by almost 50%.

Since as a wilder you depend a lot on "spamming" certain powers, it is not always the best choice to take new powers from the highest level available to you. When there simply isn't any good 4th level power for your 8th level Wilder, don't shy away from taking a second 3rd level power.
However, you should always try to pick powers that make good use of augmentation. Augmenting powers through the roof is where Wilders shine. Something that grants a flat bonus and only lasts longer when using more power points is not worth it.
Also, augmentation can mean flexibility. Get Charm with Expanded Knowledge and you get four new powers for the price of one.

[Psyren]

Wilder isn't bad. It's just intended to be something like a superhero three-trick horse. If you pick the right powers, being able to cast them a lot of times at considerably higher strength is a very valuable ability. Also they have a quite solid base chasis with d6 Hit Dice, 4 skill points, light armor and simple weapons.

They also get 3/4 BAB, so you can look into making them a gish of some kind. (Sanctified Mind works great with this, getting them to 16 BAB and also helping them deal with Enervation.)



At 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level you can use the Expanded Knowledge feat to increase your number of powers by almost 50%.

You can also grab the Educated ACF, (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) which lets you trade away Volatile Mind (sucks) for even more EK feats (Win!)

[Yora]

Oh yes! When it's an option, it's a total no-brainer. There is no good reason not to take it.

[danzibr]

For some reason... I thought... well, okay. I misread Quick Recovery. I thought having a high Cha would be good, derp.

Man, I'm really debating whether to go Psion or Wilder for my Constructor. That +1 or more can really help out at certain levels. In any case, thanks for the responses all.