D&D 3.5 - I need some assistance

[Tammerin]

Dear GITP public, I'm playing a wizard at the moment, and finding the right build for him is getting kinda hard. See, I like to control things, and thought that the conjurer specialization would be good, but it sucks, cause undead and constructs and other mindless things suck. On top of that, most things with even a 12 for wisdom seem to be making saves against dc 21 spells im rolling out. The people I play with are pretty lenient about feats and stuff that I choose, meaning, that we use the old spellcasting prodigy feat from FRCS because its better and is actually good.

Here is what I'm looking for:

1) High DC's (I try to avoid touch attacks as much as humanly possible)
2) Enough versatility that I can still throw in a fireball if I want to
3) I like controlling stuff (like i said above, i like the whole force stuffs, and if someone says i cant do something, i want to prove them wrong).
4) And I have to be human (being called shorty all the time doesn't quite work for me. my character's end up turning into douchebags because they get harassed constantly. I don't like being a douchebag. Don't make me a douchebag. Thank you).

Here's what I'm willing to work with:

1) Prestige Classes (seriously, my friends haven't even dipped into any of them and I want to show them just how amazing prestige classes can truly be).
2) Anything that doesn't make me evil. I'm fine with neutral. Neutral's good. I just don't like evil. (hint, hint: my main is a paladin, teehee)
3) That's it.

Any ideas and/or suggestions/advice?

[nedz]

What level are you ?
What is your Int ?
What, relevant, feats do you have ?

[Tammerin]

I'm a level 5 wizard, but the dm is letting people restructure their starting characters since we didn't know what we were doing in the beginning (and were being kind of stupid). My int is 18, and because of the remaking, i can have any class and feat i want up to level 5.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1. Take at least one rank in every Knowledge skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) that could be used to identify creatures of a given type. That means Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Religion, and the Planes, and possibly Psionics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/knowledgePsionics.htm).

2. Make a cheat sheet of each creature type's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#types) poor base saves, and what Knowledge check is made to identify them. Also recognize the typical poor saves of opponents with class levels based on their equipment (spell components, poor fort/reflex; holy symbols/divine focus, poor reflex; medium/heavy armor and martial weapons, poor reflex/will; light armor and ranged/rogue/bard-proficient weapons, TWF, poor fort/will; light armor and martial weapons, longbow, poor will). Also remember that despite having a poor base save, certain creatures may have abnormally high ability scores, for example certain Troll varieties in MM3 are Monstrous Humanoids (poor fort) but have Con scores in the thirties.

3. Keep an array of spells prepared which attack different saves. Good Fort choices are Wall of Smoke (cast it across occupied squares) and Stinking Cloud. Good Reflex choices are Grease, Web, and Bands of Steel. Good Will choices are Color Spray, Glitterdust, and maybe Slow. Certain spells (Web, Bands of Steel, Solid/Freezing Fog, Black Tentacles) will hinder opponents even if they make the saving throw, so they're good against all types of opponents or those who have all good saves.

4. A Knowledge skill check doesn't take any action at all, it's reactive upon a situation you may remember something about, which includes noticing a monster. At the start of each encounter, "I'm rolling a knowledge check to identify this, what's its creature type?" Roll the proper knowledge check, and make note of what save to attack for any particular creature. As a Wizard, your character's Int score will be immeasurably higher than your own, so this sort of metagaming is actually appropriate to what your character would know.

[Keld Denar]

Your issue, it sounds like, isn't with your build, it is with your tactics. Undead have doing will saves, so Glitterdusting them is foolish. Web, on the other hand, is good against any corporal undead, and even for dividing up any non-huge sized constructs. Grease is great vs constructs of any size. Haste doesn't care about saves.

You are a Conjourer. You are God. Read the guide by Treantmonk20. Be a God.

[nedz]

Treatmonk's guide is easy to find via the search engine of your choice.
Or you could just look here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=buvrhdgam8efcs116pf479p6g7&topic=394.0).

[Tammerin]

Wait, which is better? A conjurer or an enchanter?

[Lonely Tylenol]

Conjurer is by far and away the better option, with Enchanter being by far and away the weakest (because undead and constructs suck, as described before, but also because by a certain point Mind Blank becomes a common reality in all but the lowest-op games, and the Protection from X spells are a reality at all levels).

Conjurers are also the king of no-save-just-suck spells. You want to control people? You don't necessarily need to Charm or Dominate them; how about Solid Fog? Black Tentacles? Sure, it's not mind control, nor is it internal, but it's control of the highest calibur: of one's environment. You make the very world around your enemies hate them.

[nedz]

I'm a big fan of using Illusions to control people, and whilst it does eventually get blocked by Mind Blank it isn't stopped by Protection from Good/whatever.

Using these is an art however, and Conjuration is harder to get wrong.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm a big fan of using Illusions to control people, and whilst it does eventually get blocked by Mind Blank it isn't stopped by Protection from Good/whatever.

Using these is an art however, and Conjuration is harder to get wrong.

Actually, most illusion isn't affected by mind-blank at all. Maybe you were thinking true-seeing?

[Keld Denar]

There its a whole subschool of mind affecting illusions. Phantasms, IIRC. Phantasmal Killer and Weird both fall in thus category.

[TuggyNE]

See, I like to control things, and thought that the conjurer specialization would be good, but it sucks, cause undead and constructs and other mindless things suck.

What does that have to do with Conjuration, though? Conjuration generally isn't mind-affecting at all, and often doesn't even allow SR, or saves.


On top of that, most things with even a 12 for wisdom seem to be making saves against dc 21 spells im rolling out.

Well, there are a couple of possibilities:

Type gives a high base save (e.g. Undead)
Cognitive bias means you remember unexpected failures more than routine successes
DM is fudging things


Without more information, it's hard to be sure which of these is most often the case, but start from the top, as others have mentioned, and keep track of good Will save progressions with Knowledge checks.


1) High DC's (I try to avoid touch attacks as much as humanly possible)

This may surprise you, but most of the time a touch attack is more effective than a save.

Both battlefield control and summoning seem to fit your ideas well, so pick spells that prevent or slow movement (e.g. solid fog), reduce enemy actions (such as black tentacles), or force them to deal with some specific obstacle (summon monster X, say).

[nedz]

There its a whole subschool of mind affecting illusions. Phantasms, IIRC. Phantasmal Killer and Weird both fall in thus category.

Yes exactly.
At high level things immune to mind effecting spells are quite common, and then there is true seeing etc.
Don't get me started on Weird, this has to be among the most useless 9th there is. Countered by Fear immunity as well.

Still Enchantment is far weaker. Not only is it mind effecting, but there are whole types of monsters which are extra resistant to it or outright immune and they can be quite common even at low level. I'm looking at Elves and Fey.

Conjuration is probably the best place for the OP to start, at least until he gets the hang of things.

[Kelb_Panthera]

There its a whole subschool of mind affecting illusions. Phantasms, IIRC. Phantasmal Killer and Weird both fall in thus category.

Phantasms and many, if not most or even all, patterns are mind affecting. This doesn't change the fact that both types are in the minority as far as illusion spells go. The vast majority of illusion spells are either figments or glamors.

Shadows are in there too, but they're the one subschool that isn't completely bypassed by either mind-blank or trueseeing.

[Novawurmson]

DM is fudging things


Don't discount this factor. One of the hardest things for me to get over as a DM was players using abilities that made "my" baddies worthless. Try switching to touch attacks - if every creature you fight starts getting astronomically high touch ACs, consider this even more.

On the other hand, sometimes the DM just rolls well. Remember that randomness is not your friend - you will roll many more dice and have many more chances for failure over your career as an adventurer than each of the mooks you face. Touch attacks are a more "sure" thing, and thus generally better for PCs.

Try also picking up buffing spells for your allies - no saves, no attack rolls.

[Tyndmyr]

Be aware that targeting weak saves is huge. There will always be things with ridiculous will saves. You're gonna have a rough time when targeting them. Hit them with something else.

Set up circumstances where you get lots of saves...for instance, picking up lots of human mooks in areas where they can't fight back is easy. Use those mooks as a shield/minions to get better minions. Enchantment is very much something you build a network up out of if you're doing it right.

Of course, int boosting is critical. You want a +6 enhancement bonus asap. Note the upgrade item rules from MiC, so just slap them on something otherwise awesome in that slot, and just keep boosting as you can afford it. Later, when you can afford an inherent bonus, get that too. Level up boosts go to int.

Hell, you can go human paragon, which gives you +2 to stat of choice(ie, int), and progressing CL in 2/3 levels. Good skills too, and an extra feat as the icing on the cake.

Of course, spell focus/greater spell focus are always easy to justify picks, too.

Also, fatespinner is a very easy to qualify for prestige class that lets you do things like boost the DC on an important save, or force rerolls. This and/or luck points/feats can be used to swing odds further in your favor.