My party Vs. Lich, Deathknight, undead army

[What]

I am looking for some some idea's on what I could do to help my party against an army of undead, a Deathknight and a Lich. We know at our next game night we are going to be part of a large scale battle fighting with the armies of the nation. We are supposed to deal with the deathknight and the lich, while the nations keep the army out of our way. But, deathknight and the lich sound like a difficult, or at least near impossible for a group of level 7 adventurers. So any information would appriciated.

We have 2 weeks before game night, and supposed to be 2 weeks of in game time for preperations.

I am playing a level 7 artificer, the rest of the group are:
Level 7 fighter
Level 7 Martial Artist
Level 6 sorcerer/1 dragon diciple
level 7 alchemist
level 7 priest
level 7 gunslinger

Appriciate the help in advance.

[danzibr]

Do you know more detailed stats of the Lich? And what exactly is a Deathknight?

[Arcanist]

What exactly is a Deathknight?

*Rolls knowledge (Religion)* 29! (yes I did roll my d20 for that... I'd like to believe I'm a 3rd level Archivist at least... I gained a +10 circumstance bonus for having the MM2 in front of me)


Gods of death create death knights. They are martial champions of evil. These horrible undead are most commonly raised from the ranks of blackguards, fighters, rangers, and barbarians; but a paladin who falls from grace near the moment of death may also become a death knight. Paladins who become death knights are subject to the same modifications as are presented for the blackguard in Chapter 2 of
the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide. A death knight’s physical form is that of its decayed body. The face is a blackened skull covered with patches of rotting flesh, with two pinpoints of orange light in the eye sockets. The voice of a death knight is chilling, seeming to echo from deep within. Death knights were powerful people in life, and so they often wear expensive or magic clothing and armor. They are quite fond of wearing flowing capes to mark them as figures of importance.

To summarize a Death Knight is effectively an Undead Warrior (A MARTIAL CHAMPION OF EVIL!) that still possess it's intelligence. In essence he is dealing with a Lich that has a sword and high BAB.

[darksolitaire]

If my hunch is correct, that Lich will be something along the lines of Adept or Bard rather then Wizard or Cleric. "Normal" Wizard Lich from Monster Manual is cr 13 with level 6 spells to boot and thus quite inappropriate. Assuming this GM knows his system you're walking into a fight you can win.

Simplest preparation would be magic bludgeoning weapons for beatsticks for passing damage reduction, and offensive spells that don't deal electric or cold damage. Cleric should prepare few Remove Curses to counter Paralyzing touch. Few members of the party should delay their actions to disturb Lich's spellcasting.

[Arcanist]

If my hunch is correct, that Lich will be something along the lines of Adept or Bard rather then Wizard or Cleric. "Normal" Wizard Lich from Monster Manual is cr 13 with level 6 spells to boot and thus quite inappropriate. Assuming this GM knows his system you're walking into a fight you can win.

Where did he list any hints towards what class the Lich might be? Especially a Bard or an Adept? I'm not bashing at you or anything, I'm just curious...


Simplest preparation would be magic bludgeoning weapons for beatsticks for passing damage reduction, and offensive spells that don't deal electric or cold damage. Cleric should prepare few Remove Curses to counter Paralyzing touch. Few members of the party should delay their actions to disturb Lich's spellcasting.

Play on weaknesses of each individual class and character. The Death Knight is a melee fighter (weapon specialty might make this a little difficult if you're party isn't up to snuff). Theoretically if you REALLY want to make this go by quickly you can solo this entire encounter with very little work (and a lot of money)... AH if only you had Holy Word... Then the Death Knight is just plain gone...

How much gold do you guys have? Might be able to push for a scroll of it... :smalltongue:

[danzibr]

*Rolls knowledge (Religion)* 29! (yes I did roll my d20 for that... I'd like to believe I'm a 3rd level Archivist at least... I gained a +10 circumstance bonus for having the MM2 in front of me)

To summarize a Death Knight is effectively an Undead Warrior (A MARTIAL CHAMPION OF EVIL!) that still possess it's intelligence. In essence he is dealing with a Lich that has a sword and high BAB.
Ha nice touch. I googled it (as one word) and found some dandwiki stuff and WoW stuff and didn't realize it was an actual template.

[What]

Thanks for the info so far, it is much appriciated.

I dont have any information about what kind of lich it is, but read liches have a item wich stores their soul's, if you kill them, and not destroy that they come back, but thats less of an issue for me at the moment. If i had to guess we will be dealing with both the lich and the deathknight in seperate encounters. If I know my DM, i am thinking he would put us up against a caster lich. My guess, a wizard or cleric.

Was thinking about buffing my party with:

DRACONIC MIGHT
Transmutation
Level: Paladin 4, sorcerer/wizard 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
(harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The subject of the spell gains a +4
enhancement bonus to Strength, Constitution,
and Charisma. It also gains
a +4 enhancement bonus to natural
armor. Finally, it has immunity to
magic sleep and paralysis effects

to deal with the paralysis touch of the lich, but not sure if i can make a wand of it, its a 4th level paladin spell, but a 5th level wizard spell.. would also help against the DeathKnight. This DM likes to put us against challenges that seem overpowered for our party.

I have about 4000 gold at the moment, but we are playing pathfinder, and he gave me the salvage ability to reclaim build value of items we find, and i have a Cubic Gate i could dismantle for 82,000 gold. Or sell some of my Mithril or Adamantium stash (about 200lbs of each). So money shouldnt be an issue.

Any other scrolls (max lvl 5th), or wands i should be looking at?

Thanks again. :)

[darksolitaire]

Where did he list any hints towards what class the Lich might be? Especially a Bard or an Adept? I'm not bashing at you or anything, I'm just curious...

He didn't hint anything as per se, I'm just thinking how unlikely it would be for party to face monster with two whole spell levels more then them.

[Arcanist]

He didn't hint anything as per se, I'm just thinking how unlikely it would be for party to face monster with two whole spell levels more then them.

I've had a DM that dropped a pair of Adult Prismatic Dragons on an 8th level party... Honestly? Having the BBEG having 2 WHOLE spell levels more then the party would not shock me in the slightest...

On that note: Artificers are unfair if properly used.

Amulet of continuous favor of the martyr, a wand of celerity and an Eternal wand of Magic Missile ends encounters (sure it takes 25 turns but, its all good). Sure I burnt through the wand of celerity, but we lived, got bumped up 5 levels and got enough gold to buy a hundred wands of celerity! (not really) :smallamused:

*ahem* The point is that depending on how optimized the party is the DM would be entirely entitled to drop completely inappropriate encounters for a party :smallsmile:

If it is a high OP challenge I think it is entirely justifiable to use a monster that has a 6-10 higher CR then the party's ECL :smalltongue:

[darksolitaire]

*ahem* The point is that depending on how optimized the party is the DM would be entirely entitled to drop completely inappropriate encounters for a party :smallsmile:

If it is a high OP challenge I think it is entirely justifiable to use a monster that has a 6-10 higher CR then the party's ECL :smalltongue:

Entirely true. But I'm looking at that Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple and seeing that OP didn't describe his character's mechanics in depth, so I'm guessing that this party is optimized lightly. :smallbiggrin: Then again it seems to be some mix of 3.P, so I can't really tell. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

[Arcanist]

Entirely true. But I'm looking at that Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple and seeing that OP didn't describe his character's mechanics in depth, so I'm guessing that this party is optimized lightly. :smallbiggrin: Then again it seems to be some mix of 3.P, so I can't really tell. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

From observation a Dragon Disciple isn't to bad in PF... loses caster levels that completely prevent it from having 9's at all... I'm curious why any player would take it... :smallconfused:

Alright from this we can gauge that the party is low-op meaning that CR should be no less then +1 more then the parties ECL... I doubt the DM will allow for this early confrontation :smallconfused:

[What]

All this information is helpful. I want to make this encounter one my whole party survives, so again, much appriciated information.

We are playing pathfinder, so my crafting does not cost me xp. I do feel that we are a little OP'd as a party. Since at the moment, i can deal out 16d6 a round, over and over. The GM gave me the ability to put ranged touch spells on the gunslingers ammo, used like scrolls, one time shots. The fighter in the group is going stalwart defender, and gets to about 36ac.. The Alchemist also gets over 30ac. The sorcerer has an orb of (red) dragon kind, but i am not aware how many abilities he has that he can use from it at the moment.

I dont really know what OP is for a standard group, but playing a Artificer in PF with a feat every other level has let me get quite a bit done feat wise. Hope this clears up some confusion about our power level.

Again, thanks for all the info in advance. :)

[Starbuck_II]

Where did he list any hints towards what class the Lich might be? Especially a Bard or an Adept? I'm not bashing at you or anything, I'm just curious...


It could be Magus, Ranger, etc.

If 3.5 allowed Practiced Spellcaster lets a 14th level Ranger become a lich (7 +4=11th, qualifies for Lich).

Ranger would be fierce with wands of Instant Enemy (set enemy as highest Favored Enemy bonus), there full BAB Lich.