What is 'natural reach'?

[NichG]

So one of my players brought up something I didn't realize, specifically that reach weapons don't have +5ft reach, they 'double the users natural reach'.

Given that there are a number of things that increase reach, what things modify total reach and what things modify natural reach? The various reach-enhancers I'm thinking of would include:

Inhuman Reach (Lords of Madness)
Willing Deformity (Tall) (Heroes of Horror)
Warshaper's 3rd level ability (Complete Warrior)
ToB Maneuvers/Stances that increase reach
Enlarge Person

[tyckspoon]

That's one of those terms that tends to be largely undefined. The most basic definition of it, IMO, would be reach you have based on your size (and potentially your race, if you find something that has a trait for extended reach.) The next step from there would be size + anything that is 'always on'- so feat expansions would count, since those become part of your base state, but Warshaper and Tome of Battle abilities would not since you have to do something to activate it, or the reach is only working in specific circumstances (such as you have extra reach when you make an attack but not for purposes of your threatened area.)

Either way Enlarge Person counts, because it doesn't actually directly give you reach- it increases your size, and I would always consider size-derived reach to be 'natural' whether or not the size itself was.

[BCOVertigo]

Ha, yeah. A group I play in recently discovered that rule and the half ogre became much more...competitive in combat.

[BowStreetRunner]

Okay, starting with a medium creature with a reach of 5 ft and a large creature with a reach of 10 ft (note the large creature can attack at 5 ft or 10 ft).

A reach weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#reachWeapons) doubles the creatures reach. So the medium creature can now attack a creature 10 ft away (but not 5) and a large creature can now attack at 15 or 20 ft (not 5 or 10).

Inhuman Reach [LoM 180] adds 5 ft to your natural reach. So the medium creature can now attack at 5 ft or 10 ft with a normal weapon, or with a reach weapon at 15 or 20 ft (not 5 or 10). The medium creature effectively gains the natural reach of a large creature. The large creature can now attack at 5, 10, or 15 feet with a normal weapon, or with a reach weapon at 20, 25 or 30 ft (not 5, 10, or 15).

The following abilities would work essentially the same way:

Deformity (Tall) [HoH 121] Note the name: This has a prerequisite of Willing Deformity - they are two different feats.
Morphic Reach [Warshaper ability from CW 90]
Burning Brand [ToB 52]
Dancing Blade Form [ToB 67] Note that this explicitly does not stack with Burning Brand.


Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm) changes your starting size, then you apply any of the above effects to the new size.

[manyslayer]

If you aren't looking for permanent boosts:

great reach bracers (MIC 108) add 10' to reach 3/day for 1 round.

reach gauntlets (MIC 120) spend a power point to add +5' to reach 3/day

The extend reach power (CP) adds reach but contradicts the rule of doubling you natural reach (although the SRD does say "most reach weapons...)by saying: "your weapon becomes a reach weapon, extending its reach by 5 feet. If your weapon is already a reach weapon, this power extends its reach an additional 5 feet."

[NichG]

Its less that I'm looking at how to do this and more that I'm trying to systematically determine what boosts are 'natural' and what boosts are not.

For instance, I would have said that conceptually Burning Brand does not increase natural reach because it functions by extending the weapon with a segment of material made of fire. The rules unfortunately just say 'reach' without specifying whether it is natural reach or not. This is usually the case. I should say, since this is intended for use at an actual table, I don't care so much about literal RAW (which seems to be vague here anyhow) and am more interested in RAI/RAMS/other acronyms.

So basically I wanted to poll the Playground on what enhancers they felt added to 'natural' reach versus what enhancers just add to 'total' reach, to determine a sort of consensus RAI for this situation.

My inclination is that generally things that manipulate the body of the wielder would increase natural reach, whereas things that affect the weapon would increase 'total' reach and therefore not be doubled. I could also see the argument that only size alterations affect natural reach, as the reason the reach weapons double it is because they scale with the size of the user (so under this principle a Large creature wielding a Medium-sized longspear would get +5ft reach, not +10ft reach).

[manyslayer]

Of those things mentioned, I'd go with

Boosts natural reach:
Deformity (Tall) [HoH 121]
Morphic Reach [Warshaper ability from CW 90]
Greatreach Bracers [MIC108]


Boosts non-natural reach (i.e. affects weapon):

Burning Brand [ToB 52]
Dancing Blade Form [ToB 67] Note that this explicitly does not stack with Burning Brand.
Reach Gauntlet [MIC120]
Extend Reach Power [CP] - specifies your weapon.



The problem becomes what about natural weapons? I could see an argument either way for them.

[BowStreetRunner]

Note that if they are using an actual 'reach weapon' as opposed to natural reach, it also becomes an issue of how wide an area is excluded besides adjacent. With the exception of the spiked chain, most reach weapons cannot be employed against adjacent targets.

For instance: Large creature attacking normally vs adjacent (5 ft) or 10 ft opponents. With a longspear attacking vs 15 ft or 20 ft, but unable to attack vs adjacent (5 ft) or 10 ft opponents.

If natural reach is extended by 5 ft, then the Large creature attacks with a normal weapon vs adjacent (5 ft), 10 ft or 15 ft, or with a reach weapon vs 20 ft, 25 ft or 30 ft, but unable to attack vs adjacent (5 ft) or 10 ft or 15 ft opponents.

If weapon reach is extended by 5 ft, then the Large creature attacks with a normal weapon vs adjacent (5 ft), 10 ft or 15 ft (same as with natural reach example), or with a reach weapon vs 15 ft, 20 ft or 25 ft but unable to attack vs adjacent (5 ft) or 10 ft opponents.


The problem becomes what about natural weapons? I could see an argument either way for them.

Since reach weapons are the normal cause of doubling the reach of an attack, do you know of any natural reach weapons or any other effect that doubles the reach of an attack? Otherwise, I am not sure there is any difference if the natural reach or weapon reach is changed.

[Curmudgeon]

That's one of those terms that tends to be largely undefined.
Well, the term is right there in the Glossary, but I do see some chance for confusion. It's not too hard to clarify, though.
natural reach

The distance from which a creature can make a melee attack. The creature threatens all squares within that distance from its space. That "threatens" line in the definition is rather misleading; when you look elsewhere in the rules you find that's only the base case.
Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. Here's my suggestion for an improved definition:


Natural reach is the distance at which you can attack with natural weapons.

Note that unarmed strike is a natural weapon attack. (You just don't threaten unarmed unless you have Improved Unarmed Strike.)