People work hard so that they can work hard

[TheBlackArcher]

So I'm approaching my final exams in year 12 and I'm looking back on my schooling years, simply thinking about how pointless it has all been.

Literally people work their asses off in school just so they can get to uni, work more, and then go to work.. and work more.

My parents made me do a lot of schoolwork when I was in primary school and I basically ended up with a full scholarship to the most prestigious secondary school in Melbourne. Since I don't get the straight A+s which are expected of me as a scholarship student, people ask me how I have a scholarship... wellp in year 7 when I entered with a scholarship I got straight A+s because I had worked up until then but now in year 12 I could not care less.

I get straight B+s/As at school by doing literally 0 work and will probably end up in a course like Commerce at uni which will likely secure me a job. Were I to work harder or even work at all I could probably end up in a better course or even with an uni scholarship. But honestly I can not find any motivation to do any work just so I can go to uni and do more work.. and then go to work.

My teachers, my parents, my friends all urge each other in a cycle about how important it is to do work and get a good ENTER score for the final exams. But I really don't think it's important in the scheme of things. There are kids starving in Africa, and I feel blessed just to have been born a human in the 21st Century. Life is better than ever, especially here in Australia, regardless of whether I study. Studying just makes life crap.

Am I missing something here?

[truemane]

Short answer: no. That's pretty much all there is. If you want to eat, have a roof, and clothing, you've got to work somewhere between 30 and 60 hours a week for the majority of your adult life.

The trick is that, given that 'everyone' works that 30 - 60 hours a week, the drive is usually to get as much out of it as you can. So you flunk out of High School and get a job in retail, make just over minimum wage, and work 30 - 60 hours a week to afford a small one room apartment and a ten year old car.

Or you can go to school, get three degrees and become Someone Important who works the same 30 - 60 hours a week and has two cars and a big house and a big screen tv, etc etc.

But the reality is that, barring exceptional circumstances, there's no escaping the work part. It's just how it is. Even being jobless and homeless creates its own kind of work.

The two aspects of the work that you need to focus on are:
1. How much you enjoy doing what you do.
2. How much you get paid to do what you do.

And you find the sweet spot on the sliding scale between effort, reward and satisfaction, and you settle in for the long haul.

(also, I'm exaggerating some of this for dramatic effect, but not much)

[ThiagoMartell]

You're missing plenty. You're seeing the world in a very simple way, which kind of makes sense since you're so young.
Not everyone studies hard thinking about the future, there are plenty of other reasons to study, such as a thirst for knowledge or making your parents happy. The same goes for work, many people that work hard don't do so because of the money. It might be because they enjoy their work or because they know their work is important.
There is also the fact that for many jobs, you work hard to get there and then you don't have to do much, actually. That's how most experts work, actually - their knowledge is very specific and thorough so they can charge a lot of money per hour.
Basically, money is not the only motivational force behind people. That's what you missed.

[noparlpf]

I think what you're missing is motivation. I know how that is. I'm a third-year undergrad in university, and I still haven't learned how to put work in. I've been cruising by on brains the whole time, somehow maintaining at least a B average. I still have no idea what to do after university, probably stay for a Master's and then what? No clue. "Get a job doing something", I guess. Why? To pay for a place to live, food to live, and a car to get to work so I can earn money to continue eating.
Short answer: Society has become so complex that you have to go through this seemingly nonsensical system just to eat, rather than going out and killing something to eat it, or farming.
I'd much rather be a farmer.

[Spiryt]

I'd much rather be a farmer.

That may be not so hard, depending on where one lives... Biggest problem obviously to have some land and don't go bankrupt.

Producing some food, especially good one, would be refreshing indeed, compared to rolling some abstract papers around.

[Tyndmyr]

So I'm approaching my final exams in year 12 and I'm looking back on my schooling years, simply thinking about how pointless it has all been.

Literally people work their asses off in school just so they can get to uni, work more, and then go to work.. and work more.

Yup. The work thing is a treadmill. How much of it you do is up to you. As with a normal treadmill, though, you probably want to do it at least a little bit.


My teachers, my parents, my friends all urge each other in a cycle about how important it is to do work and get a good ENTER score for the final exams. But I really don't think it's important in the scheme of things. There are kids starving in Africa, and I feel blessed just to have been born a human in the 21st Century. Life is better than ever, especially here in Australia, regardless of whether I study. Studying just makes life crap.

Am I missing something here?

Well, strictly speaking, you ARE lucky to be born in the first world. It's pretty awesome by comparison. And throughout most of history, the standard of achievement for people was "find enough food to not die, and reproduce". The first has basically become trivial.

So...what your goals are, are basically up to you. Want to relax and not focus so much on school and work? Valid Option. Want to strive to be the absolute best in a field? Also a valid option. Just consider the tradeoffs when making choices.

Personally, I'd advise setting some goal you personally feel is awesome, and working towards that. Merely getting by is actually fairly easy, but achieving something you really want is amazingly rewarding.

[noparlpf]

That may be not so hard, depending on where one lives... Biggest problem obviously to have some land and don't go bankrupt.

Producing some food, especially good one, would be refreshing indeed, compared to rolling some abstract papers around.

Yeah, I think to support myself with a varied diet including meat, I'd need about an acre (and the ability to kill an animal, I don't think I could do that myself). I can even manage electricity with solar panels. Turns out (my dad's working on this now at his place) if you buy solar cells in bulk and assemble them yourself, it costs significantly less (like half or two thirds, something ridiculous like that, I don't remember) than buying an assembled solar panel.
Of course to be able to afford an acre of arable land, seed, and animals, I'd need money.

[Sipex]

OP, as someone who's got his diploma and has been in the working world for over 5 years now, I completely understand where you're coming from. At first it was like a bubble getting popped, without proper direction I came out of school with a job but no real purpose. I worked to make money and I went to school so I wouldn't have to work retail.

However, life is what you make of it, do as the others have advised and figure out your own goals. With a clear picture of what YOU want out of life you're able to steer yourself with purpose and it makes everything that much better.

[Tyndmyr]

I actually work kind of a lot. That said, I work a white collar desk job during the day, so, yknow, posting on giantitp while waiting for something to compile is entirely normal. The rest of the time, I work on stuff I wanna work on.

Sure, nobody is paying me to build 3d models and put 'em on the internet, but it's fun, and who knows, it may be of use to someone, somewhere.

[Chen]

Short answer: Society has become so complex that you have to go through this seemingly nonsensical system just to eat, rather than going out and killing something to eat it, or farming.
I'd much rather be a farmer.

You realize subsistence farming is gruelling work right? And if there's a bad season or somesuch there's a chance you or your loved ones starve to death. I'm pretty glad society has gotten more complicated and moved away from having to worry every day about how you're going to actually just stay alive.

[noparlpf]

You realize subsistence farming is gruelling work right? And if there's a bad season or somesuch there's a chance you or your loved ones starve to death. I'm pretty glad society has gotten more complicated and moved away from having to worry every day about how you're going to actually just stay alive.

Yes, I realise. I'm a pretty fit guy and I get in shape quickly, and I like manual labour because I can actually feel the results of it. And I'd aim to grow a bit extra of things that can be stored, like dried fruit or grains, in case of bad years.
Besides, worrying about staying alive means no time to worry about other stuff, which I would like.

[Tyndmyr]

You realize subsistence farming is gruelling work right? And if there's a bad season or somesuch there's a chance you or your loved ones starve to death. I'm pretty glad society has gotten more complicated and moved away from having to worry every day about how you're going to actually just stay alive.

I grew up on a farm. It sucked pretty bad.

That said, having a little garden is pretty awesome...you can learn a lot about growing stuff, enjoy the freshest, most delicious fruits and veggies, and so on. Subsistence farming sucks quite a lot, but you don't have to do it the hard way in order to reap the bennies. =)

[valadil]

But honestly I can not find any motivation to do any work just so I can go to uni and do more work.. and then go to work.

Unless you're going to live off the grid, you're going to do work to pay the bills. Sure there are exceptions, but this is a fact of life for most people. The question isn't whether you work, but what work you do.

IMO it's worth while to invest time to get good at what you want to do in order to be able to position yourself into a job you find satisfying. What's satisfying will be different for different people. Some people want as little stress as possible and take low responsibility jobs. I like solving abstract problems, so I'm pretty damn happy as a programmer and have no regrets about earning my Masters degree to get here.

[gooddragon1]

I'd rather just not be alive. But that's probably just me and a very small portion of the overall population.

[noparlpf]

I'd rather just not be alive. But that's probably just me and a very small portion of the overall population.

I'd rather be a fish. Fish are the ultimate life-form. Don't have to have sex to reproduce, don't have to worry about shaving regularly, don't really worry about anything.

[Dumbledore lives]

What you have is a cynical attitude of someone who had an incredible life and doesn't recognize it. Find something you love and would like to do as a career and work towards that goal, don't work for money or work for anyone else but yourself. Sure there may be other steps along the way and in the end it might not work out, but if you tried, really tried, then it will all have been worth it.

Of course this is coming from someone who is at the school of his dreams working on a Bachelor of Science in Game Design, from a privileged first world life, so my view is slanted by my experiences, as are all of the above opinions.

[Galdor Miriel]

Hey look, life is about being happy. If you can't get happy being academic do something else. I went through school till the age of 26 and have spent the time since as a researcher, I invent stuff and play games all day long, almost as good as D and D. But I do that because it makes me happy and floats my boat. If you like using your hands get an apprenticeship, just not in a wizarding school, maybe a plumbers instead. You see the trick is we all have to do something. Unless you want to be a professional moocher which is a serious waste of anyones skills. We all have to do something so try things until you find something you like.

At the moment you may well get nothing from uni, try hauling **** for a year or two on a building site and you might change you tune.

Whatever you do good luck, you did a good thing asking for advice, because it is only by against questions that we find answers.

[Tyndmyr]

I'd rather be a fish. Fish are the ultimate life-form. Don't have to have sex to reproduce, don't have to worry about shaving regularly, don't really worry about anything.

Except being eaten. That's kind of a biggie.

And you don't HAVE to worry about shaving or having sex. Those are optional.

[noparlpf]

Hey look, life is about being happy. If you can't get happy being academic do something else. I went through school till the age of 26 and have spent the time since as a researcher, I invent stuff and play games all day long, almost as good as D and D. But I do that because it makes me happy and floats my boat. If you like using your hands get an apprenticeship, just not in a wizarding school, maybe a plumbers instead. You see the trick is we all have to do something. Unless you want to be a professional moocher which is a serious waste of anyones skills. We all have to do something so try things until you find something you like.

At the moment you may well get nothing from uni, try hauling **** for a year or two on a building site and you might change you tune.

Whatever you do good luck, you did a good thing asking for advice, because it is only by against questions that we find answers.

I nearly got an apprenticeship with a coppersmith/electrician sort of guy over the summer, except his boss was worried about liability. Pity, that would have been really fun.


Except being eaten. That's kind of a biggie.

And you don't HAVE to worry about shaving or having sex. Those are optional.

Well I'd like to reproduce somehow, and I don't like how I look when I don't shave. So both do concern me to some degree.

[Tonal Architect]

I'm afraid you're dead on, there's not much else to it.

You're good to go if you realize that early on, though: there's a loophole. Simply put, don't work for others, get others to work for you. How you accomplish that is up to you, but you have time to do the homework.

[Yora]

Here in Germany there has been a strong observation that in recent years new professionals seem to have lost most interest in making a big career and hoping for promotions. Older generations would do everything for promotions, but the younger ones really don't want to and often rather decline.
Being promoted means having more work and all you get in return is just more money. But what would you do with the money when you don't have any time to spend it? And for someone well educated, even a relatively low job still pays more than enough to cover living expenses.

In past decades, career and money also meant social advancement. But for people of my age with a similar background of parents who already are teachers, doctors, engineers, or managers, there isn't really any percieved room for social advancement anymore. We are already at the very top. Maybe you could say that above this "upper middle class" there is still the "high class", but those people have a bad reputation for being heartless, money-obsessed, and decadent and as the child of intelectuals, you don't want to have any association with those people. While a step up in the power ladder, it would be some steps down in the ladder of social admiration.

I think this upper middle class is already living in a "post scarcity" society or at least sub-culture. The generations before us often grew up in times where it was highly desireable to climb up to a better stadard of living and to make sure your children will have it better than they did. But recent financial collapses set aside, not being able to afford a home, food, and medical treatment isn't really a concern. If everything goes completely wrong, in Germany you always can file for private bancrupcy and get the minimal living expenses covered by social security, and then you still have your education to start from square one with quite good chances ahead. And it isn't even a social disgrace because you define your social rank by your education, which you always keep. I think there is a self perception that simply being educated automatically puts you at the top of the social ladder, wealth or poverty doesn't have anything to do with it.

And it isn't even an economical thing but mostly an outlook or state of mind. Looking back we were dirt poor when I was a kid and I now live in pretty much the same conditions again. But it's not a problem because I grew up with the view that material possessions are not an indicator of your "worth" as a person. If you have education, you don't need to have any visible things to show people "see, I made myself into someone! I may be of simple origin, but I made something good of my life".
Yes, it's a huge post-modernist snobbism that is just soaked in notions of superiority. But as I experience it, the "intelligentsia" regards itself as superior simply because of their education. You don't have to prove anything.

When I went to school, it was one that was on "the wrong side of the tracks" so to speak and it was one that deliberately attempted to draw kids from many different social backgrounds. And now the last years at university, some of the other students I've been good friends with are also upper middle class, while some really had to claw their way up through school to make it to university as "workers kids". And even with them I can't say I ever saw any indications of giving thoght to their future career. Okay, we were cultural studies so half of us are going to work at the grill anyway, but except for the econmics students who follow in their fathers footsteps, there seems to be a strong absence of any materialism. Humble living conditions are not a problem, but even become a kind of subject of pride. It's not about wealth, not about cars, not about vacations, not about power. It's about the "higher pursuit" of knowledge and wisdom. And the articles that keep mentioning the effect all the time are mostly from business magazines who are talking about the economics students following their fathers footsteps.

I think I was 15 or maybe 16 when I looked at my life ahead of my and thought "there is really no purpose to life. You are born, then you die, and it doesn't matter at all what you accomplished in the meantime". With death probably still some 70 years ahead, I had a lot of spare time to fill and so I would be doing things that I enjoy doing. Also, I would be needing to do some work to cover the expenses for those thing, but that's really the attention I would be giving that work thing. If you can get the money while enjoying making it, that would be even better.

I am quite sure that it is a form of luxury and does have very few to do with actually being "above material needs". It's only possible because such people grew up in an environment of very high economic security. Even those who are from poor families don't have the worries about an uncertain future that earlier generations had to live with. Once you made it into the highest tier of the school system, you have very good assurance that you will never be experiencing great need.
For our grandparents in Europe, it was completely different. They grew up in world war 2 and during the cold war, and they were facing a very real danger of facing terrible hardship at any time. Working hard was not a matter of prestige or luxury, it was a matter of survival. And I think the prestige you got when you made it up through the layers of society was to a great deal that people would admire you for the burdens you took on yourself to see for the safety of your family. Over time, that aspect got lost and you simply worked your way up to be high up. Work was supposed to be its own reward.
Also we have to remember that 20 years ago a desk job was a desk job. From Friday at 5 to Monday at 8, work was closed, there wasn't anything going on. Now work is 24/7, there just are some times where you are sceduled a 14 hour break if everything goes fine. In that environment when you have your desk job plus weekend overtime, giving your all for work no longer is possible. If you are working 6 or more days a week, you just can't work as much. The amount of work has to go down if you want the same amount of life quality that your parents had.

[Tyndmyr]

I think this upper middle class is already living in a "post scarcity" society or at least sub-culture.

It's a social shift, no doubt, but the word "post scarcity" has special connotations that don't apply here.

The best example of a post-scarcity society is the culture. Money is unnecessary, and wanting something and having it are basically synonymous. Jobs for pay isn't even part of the culture...if you do anything, it's entirely out of personal interest, or for prestige, or what have you.

Our culture is changing, but it is immensely different from anything describable as post-scarcity, and indeed, we simply do not yet have the capability for a post-scarcity culture.

[nedz]

It sounds like you were pushed too hard when you were young. Your views are quite common. You could try reading "The Prodigy" by Herman Hesse :smallsmile:

Modern farming BTW is factory work, just that the factory has no roof. I did a little bit, just casual work, when I was 16. It was market gardening, which is a farm with a glass roof. I think I once pricked out 4,000 celery plants in a single day, and don't talk to me about Geraniums. Very dull.

You need to find a direction, work out what you want to do, and work out how to get there. It can be quite hard to make the transition from academia to work, but most people manage it.

[Blue1005]

If you can actually find a job to work hard at consider yourself blessed. I can NOT find a job that pays more that 11$ an hour. That is with considerable education that i have done.

[noparlpf]

It sounds like you were pushed too hard when you were young. Your views are quite common. You could try reading "The Prodigy" by Herman Hesse :smallsmile:

Modern farming BTW is factory work, just that the factory has no roof. I did a little bit, just casual work, when I was 16. It was market gardening, which is a farm with a glass roof. I think I once pricked out 4,000 celery plants in a single day, and don't talk to me about Geraniums. Very dull.

You need to find a direction, work out what you want to do, and work out how to get there. It can be quite hard to make the transition from academia to work, but most people manage it.

Yeah, I don't like modern farming around here because it's capitalistic. I'd rather farm for myself and not have to deal with everyone else.

[Tyndmyr]

Modern farming BTW is factory work, just that the factory has no roof. I did a little bit, just casual work, when I was 16. It was market gardening, which is a farm with a glass roof. I think I once pricked out 4,000 celery plants in a single day, and don't talk to me about Geraniums. Very dull.

Yeah. It's not anything at all like distracting(which an earlier poster said he wanted). It's extremely tedious and repetitive. I grew up on a fairly large berry farm, and I never want to pull a weed or pick a berry again. I don't even know how many thousands of pounds I've picked, but holy god is it dull.


Yeah, I don't like modern farming around here because it's capitalistic. I'd rather farm for myself and not have to deal with everyone else.

I'm not sure why the capitalistic part is anything particular to farming...or even a very objectionable part of farming...but if you want to farm for yourself, go nuts. I still advise starting out with a garden, though. Lots of romantic ideas about farming die pretty swiftly when exposed to reality. The larger you scale up, the worse it gets, too.

[noparlpf]

Yeah. It's not anything at all like distracting(which an earlier poster said he wanted). It's extremely tedious and repetitive. I grew up on a fairly large berry farm, and I never want to pull a weed or pick a berry again. I don't even know how many thousands of pounds I've picked, but holy god is it dull.

I'm not sure why the capitalistic part is anything particular to farming...or even a very objectionable part of farming...but if you want to farm for yourself, go nuts. I still advise starting out with a garden, though. Lots of romantic ideas about farming die pretty swiftly when exposed to reality. The larger you scale up, the worse it gets, too.

Well, my idea is that I just want to physically feel the results of my work, and that I want my work to be for myself. Capitalistic farming means I'm working for other people, or to sell to other people.
This is pretty much all a dream though. And I am perfectly aware of how hard and repetitive the work is, but I like work like that.

[TheEmerged]

I'm not sure why the capitalistic part is anything particular to farming...or even a very objectionable part of farming...but if you want to farm for yourself, go nuts. I still advise starting out with a garden, though. Lots of romantic ideas about farming die pretty swiftly when exposed to reality. The larger you scale up, the worse it gets, too.

I beleive the meme is, "Fixed that for you"?

Comedy aside, I could rant on this subject for hours. I have, in fact, ranted on this subject for hours in the past :smallamused:

In brief? Don't study to do something you hate or find boring, or you'll end up spending your life doing something you hate or find boring. There's not enough money in the world to compensate for that. What has worked for me is to get a job that I can handle without making a career of it, and then doing my career (which I happen to love, but also happens to be notoriously low paying) with the rest of my time.

To twist a popular cliche? Work is mandatory, misery is optional.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, my idea is that I just want to physically feel the results of my work, and that I want my work to be for myself. Capitalistic farming means I'm working for other people, or to sell to other people.
This is pretty much all a dream though. And I am perfectly aware of how hard and repetitive the work is, but I like work like that.

If independence from society is your thing, go ahead and do that...there's a subculture in America that's pretty strong on that. Im fairly involved in DIY stuff, so I run into these sorts pretty often, and some of them seem to take great pride in caring for all their own needs, nothin' wrong with that if it's your bag.

I wouldn't consider it terribly related to capitalism or any other economic structure, though. Basically any modern country or system has a huge amount of interdependency and dealing with other people.

There are also certain "working for yourself" benefits of starting your own business...but again there, you tend to end up working quite hard for a while before it takes off. IF it takes off. But hey, if this ends up matching your dream, it can totally be worth pursuing.

Edit: TheEmerged, lol, fair enough, yeah. Definitely not a farming only issue.

[noparlpf]

I'd be willing to bet if I had grown up without easy access to education, and had to work hard through my adolescence, I'd be wishing for education and a desk job instead.

[Tyndmyr]

I'd be willing to bet if I had grown up in a third-world country, I'd be wishing for education and a desk job instead.

Likely. Grass is always greener and all that. Still, if you've got a green thumb, go grow something.

I used to have a garden on my apartment balcony containing everything up to and including an orange tree. While this made moving interesting, it's certainly doable.

[noparlpf]

Likely. Grass is always greener and all that. Still, if you've got a green thumb, go grow something.

I used to have a garden on my apartment balcony containing everything up to and including an orange tree. While this made moving interesting, it's certainly doable.

I had an aloe plant and some sort of flower whose name I forget and a hanging vine in my room first semester last year. Ended up bringing them home over the winter. I think my family killed the aloe, but the flowers are doing okay. The vine got some sort of parasite and wasted away while I was gone.
There used to be rumours that I had an orange tree in one of my desk drawers (obviously the drawer had to be extradimensional) because I always had four or six oranges in my pockets.

[razark]

So I'm approaching my final exams in year 12 and I'm looking back on my schooling years, simply thinking about how pointless it has all been.
One day, the real world is going to smack you in the face.



Life is better than ever...
Look behind you. See all those people that advanced human knowledge, built infrastructure, and provided you with the life you're living now?

The only reason you have that great life is because those people spent their lives studying and working hard. And one day, you're going to need to be the one providing that "good life" for yourself. Having a job makes it easier, but if you want to go it alone, you can try. Of course, you'll have to study farming. You'll have to learn shelter building. You'll have to learn how to hunt animals in an efficient manner. You'll need to learn how to survive without society.

Short version:
If you choose to live without study, you're going to have to study how to do it. Study or die.

[McStabbington]

Am I missing something here?

Short answer: You've got the basic idea down, but you're missing the nuances.

To put it bluntly, given how efficiently the first world produces material goods, there's no material-based reason why the workers in the first world nations work as many hours and as hard as they do. Assuming we a) wanted to, and b) adjusted our supply systems accordingly, we could feed, clothe, house and hand an Ipod to everyone in the world while still cutting our work hours. Our productivity, in terms of finished products, really is that high. So the reason why people work so many hours isn't, strictly speaking, because we need to work that many hours to survive.

Rather, it's a cultural thing. Certainly the distribution of goods and artificial scarcity plays into it, but what really drives this is that in the first-world, we make a fetish out of industriousness. Just to demonstrate, consider the following: people in general have an amazing ability to rationalize flaws in their character, and they can do it with almost any flaw. If they cheat on their spouse, they're still good with their kids and have an understanding with the missus and overlook flaws of hers and she's not being particularly supportive anyway. If they cheat on their taxes, everyone else does it too. If their not particularly bright and don't read, they've still got street smarts and brains aren't everything.

But the one thing no person in the first world will ever admit to being, it's lazy. When we reward someone fabulously for being in a select industry, we're always quick to talk about what hard workers they are. We refuse to think of farmers as welfare recipients despite the fact that both are subsidized because, say it with me, farmers work hard. And when we discuss poverty and welfare, the discussion is never about why exactly sloth is a mortal sin but wrath, envy, pride, gluttony, lust and greed are not. Rather, the discussion is always about how hard the poor have to work. Just to be clear, the poor do have to work incredibly hard to jump through the hurdles our society puts in their way. But the point is to say that for some reason, sloth, indolence or laziness is treated differently from other sins in our society. It's the one sin we refuse to rationalize. Hence the claim that the First World fetishizes industriousness not simply as a virtue, but the virtue. And you're right to notice that there's no necessary or logical reason why they would do that.

But that being said, however much we may want the world to be different than it is, wishing does not make it so. And as such, to some extent no matter how ridiculous or unfair you think the rules of life in our society is, you still have to play the game by those rules. But here's the kicker: so long as you play officially by the letter of the law, there's nothing anyone can do if you subvert the hell out of the spirit. So if you go into something boring and soul-crushing, if you do well enough to make a life out of it, there's nothing anyone can do to you if you use that money and that security to do what you love. In that sense, you can follow the letter of the rules while also thumbing those same rules in the eye over and over again. But you only get to do that if you get enough education and skill to climb close to the top of the pile. Play the game right, and you can get enough money to spend all your free time becoming a champion kayaker (for example) and in the process flout all the stupid frivolous expectations about fancy cars, trophy wives and big houses that are supposed to go with being wealthy.

[Tyndmyr]

Short answer: You've got the basic idea down, but you're missing the nuances.

To put it bluntly, given how efficiently the first world produces material goods, there's no material-based reason why the workers in the first world nations work as many hours and as hard as they do. Assuming we a) wanted to, and b) adjusted our supply systems accordingly, we could feed, clothe, house and hand an Ipod to everyone in the world while still cutting our work hours. Our productivity, in terms of finished products, really is that high. So the reason why people work so many hours isn't, strictly speaking, because we need to work that many hours to survive.

Depending on what you want from life, a part time job is certainly a good option.


But the one thing no person in the first world will ever admit to being, it's lazy.

Oh hell, I'm lazy. I work a desk job. I've optimized a lot of things in my life to minimize work put into them. My vacuuming is done by a robot. I code tedious computer tasks so they're automated. Hell, I have a 3d printer because I love experimenting with automating creation of all kinds of other stuff. Pushing a coupla buttons to get what I want is a goal to be lauded.

Laziness isn't necessarily bad. It's all in what you channel it into. Think about what you actually want from life, then do some plotting as to how to get there. You're gonna have to do SOME work, pretty everyone does...but if you're smart about it, you can minimize the hell out of it.

Work smarter, not harder.

[noparlpf]

Depending on what you want from life, a part time job is certainly a good option.



Oh hell, I'm lazy. I work a desk job. I've optimized a lot of things in my life to minimize work put into them. My vacuuming is done by a robot. I code tedious computer tasks so they're automated. Hell, I have a 3d printer because I love experimenting with automating creation of all kinds of other stuff. Pushing a coupla buttons to get what I want is a goal to be lauded.

Laziness isn't necessarily bad. It's all in what you channel it into. Think about what you actually want from life, then do some plotting as to how to get there. You're gonna have to do SOME work, pretty everyone does...but if you're smart about it, you can minimize the hell out of it.

Work smarter, not harder.

“I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.” -- Bill Gates

[Sipex]

Yeah, I'm a bit confused too, I'm soooo lazy, I mean...don't even get me started.

If anything is to blame for the change in social dynamic I'd blame information. We've had people who have lived many lives and learned tons of different lessons throughout the years, but until recently (in perspective) these new lessons (among all the other information that's readily available these days) had no way of making the rounds.

But now we have generations which grow up on media which is filled with these lessons, one of the most prominent ones being 'Money != Happiness' (I mean really, how many movies have tried to convince us otherwise?).

Now we live our lives guided by these lessons which have been imposed on us by our entertainment.

Not to say I disagree, I've seen enough multi-millionaires on their death beds, pleading with their heirs about this lesson to cement it in my mind. However, having this sort of information pushed on someone makes them really think about the subject at hand and I guess enough people have thought about it and agree "Money != Happiness".

[Pie Guy]

My dad always told me: Do well in school, or I'll have to work for a living.

[JoshL]

Knowledge is never a bad thing. The trick is being interested in knowledge for it's own sake, not for grades, not for approval, not for a job.

The tough part is figuring out what you want to do for the rest of your life. I wish I had when I was still in school. It's not that one can't teach themselves, but it's a little nicer when someone is there to point out what you don't know, and where you should focus next.

That's the real question. What do you want to do, and what do you need to do to get there?

[SaintRidley]

Work smarter, not harder.

Hard work is its own reward.

Money cannot buy happiness.

Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life.

e.a. canards.

For me, learning is the goal, and I work hard to achieve that goal. I enjoy the work, and as long as I can manage, I'm good. I have no intention of working toward earning any great amounts of money. It's not worth it to me. I don't care much for that sort of thing.

[ThiagoMartell]

I'd be willing to bet if I had grown up in a third-world country, I'd be wishing for education and a desk job instead.

Being from a third world country, I'm greatly offended by this.

[Asta Kask]

Well of course everyone here is lazy - the industrious people are out working!

[THAC0]

I work hard so I can have fun.

Seriously, we're leaning towards working our butts off for the next so many years so that my husband can retire early. Then he can just not work or do fun stuff and I can work part time or do fun stuff and we can live where we want to live finally.

In the shorter term, I like to plan things to use (a carefully budgeted portion of) my hard-earned money on that make me happy. Whether that's a backpacking trip in the grand canyon or going home for a week of fishing or what.

[Castaras]

I work hard so that I can get a job in an area I'll enjoy. I'll have to work, so I may as well work hard to get a job that won't have me dreading going there each day.

[bluewind95]

I'd be willing to bet if I had grown up in a third-world country, I'd be wishing for education and a desk job instead.
Being from a third world country, I'm greatly offended by this.

Yeaaaaah, I think it'd be wise to watch out for stereotypes. I'm also from a third world country, and I had quite a good education thankyouverymuch, and had a desk job till I couldn't work anymore.

[noparlpf]

Yeaaaaah, I think it'd be wise to watch out for stereotypes. I'm also from a third world country, and I had quite a good education thankyouverymuch, and had a desk job till I couldn't work anymore.

We talked about that over PM. I decided "third world country" is a bad label that's vague, over-general, and isn't explained well in school.

[bluewind95]

We talked about that over PM. I decided "third world country" is a bad label that's vague, over-general, and isn't explained well in school.

That is true. Aren't most countries 3rd world, anyways?

.... But if you'd been born without access to education, and you replace the vague label with that, I daresay I'd agree it could be the case. Unless you were also born with love for manual labor. Then you might be glad you don't have all those things "weighing you down".

[ThiagoMartell]

That is true. Aren't most countries 3rd world, anyways?
Yes, that's correct.