[PF] Question on Shigenjo Ki Strike

[Skaven]

on the website (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-tengu/shigenjo-oracle-tengu)

"As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, a shigenjo can make a ki strike as a monk whose level is equal to her oracle level – 3."

Does this mean they can attack as a monk at their level -3, or does it mean they must make a normal unarmed strike (terrible unless you have natural weapons or the improved unarmed strike feat)

I'm unclear if it means they only gain the DR bypass abilities or the total damage. And does it mean they can do this on a full attack as a monk? or just on a single attack? Or all attacks at their own AB?

[Psyren]

1) It doesn't look like they get IUS, but maybe you can use it with your Tengu bite in its absence? Failing that, their Claws racial trait gets them IUS for free (in exchange for the sword stuff) so take that and you're good.

2) You would only get the DR bypass; that's all ki strike gives you. And you would get it 3 levels later than a monk would (e.g. you bypass DR/magic at 7 instead of 4, bypass DR/lawful at 13 instead of 10, and bypass adamantine+hardness at 19 instead of 16.)

3) Ki strike is passive (as long as you have at least 1 point of ki in your pool), thus it applies to all your attacks. This is true for both Monks and Shigenjo.

[Skaven]

Thank you for the clarification. Looks like for that to be useful I would have to invest in the claws racial over the sword training. Shame, since the sword training is probably more useful.

Shigenjo looks to be kind of ill thought out as an alternative class. Half of the skills they get for the 'alternate mystery' are spells Oracles get anyway. I am having doubts about using this alternative class.

[grarrrg]

"As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, a shigenjo can make a ki strike as a monk whose level is equal to her oracle level – 3."
I'm unclear if it means they only gain the DR bypass abilities or the total damage. And does it mean they can do this on a full attack as a monk? or just on a single attack? Or all attacks at their own AB?

You only get the "counts as" portion, BUT you overlooked the Ki Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons#TOC-Ki-Focus) weapon Enchantment:

allowing her to use her special ki attacks through the weapon as if they were unarmed attacks. These attacks include the monk's ki strike
It's only a +1 enchantment, so it is relatively cheap.
At Oracle 7 your Ki Focus weapon counts as Magic.
At Oracle 13 your Ki Focus weapon counts as Lawful.
At Oracle 19 your Ki Focus weapon counts as Adamantine.


Shigenjo looks to be kind of ill thought out as an alternative class. Half of the skills they get for the 'alternate mystery' are spells Oracles get anyway. I am having doubts about using this alternative class.

You said "skills" and then "spells", so I'll cover both:
The only shared Skill is Knowledge (Religion), the other 3 are new.
And the spells may already be on your List, but Oracles are Spontaneous, and the Mystery Bonus spells are added to your spells Known.

Overall, it is a relatively solid archetype, nothing much truly gained or lost.
And being able to spend a Ki to increase the save DC can be handy.

[Skaven]

Sorry, meant to say skills twice, not spells. They effectively lose two skills compared to a standard archtype, both state K: Religion and K: Planes. This is a pretty big hit to me.

Didn't know about ki focus weapons, interesting. Though likely less so considering the druidic weapons limitation over all swords. but can be decent I understand.

The Ki ability to raise the DC seems to be the only useful ki ability past the DR defeating ability. +4 spellcraft miiiight have a use.. potentially.. but is mostly worthless. The +5 levels for curse bonuses might also be useful, thoguh not for a bunch of curses that grant extra spells.. no slots of that level means useless (I was going to go for haunted) However the DC increase is probably worth it alone.

Well, thanks for the post. I skipped out on Oracle due to the dual skill penalty and went with storm druid. (I really needed that fly skill from the wind mystery to go with my tengu glide ability.) I love the archtype, but if only they would have bothered to let us choose to keep the mystery skills and actually bothered to check what skills Oracles had already before stating the 'extra' skills... due to that it feels kind of ill designed. Still definitely worth playing, but the devils in the details as they say.

[NamelessNPC]

Are you sure having a +3 to fly is that important? I mean, is that the limit between wanting to play this clas and choosing another one? A masterwork flying tool (I dunno, a special suit, or pilot goggles and a scarf) is +2 for 50 gp