Malconvoker Advice

[Telonius]

I'm currently putting together a build for a Tiefling Cloistered Cleric of Boccob/Malconvoker. The concept is that the Tiefling (NG) is kind of a sleeper agent for the forces of good, who will eventually have a redeemed devil or demon (a la Eludecia, though not necessarily with Paladin levels) with Fiend of Corruption (to mask the alignment shift) as a cohort.

Right now the build is CCleric5/Malconvoker9, for ECL 15. Since Malconvoker is only a 9-level PrC, I'm looking for a few levels to finish out the build. Thaumaturgist was the first thing that came to mind, and the Malconvoker guide (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872758/Mastering_the_Malconvoker) I was able to find recommends it. But looking over the abilities, it doesn't seem to me that it gives much that Malconvoker doesn't already give (or requires as a prereq). Especially since I'd be taking Leadership earlier than ECL20 to get the cohort. So, is there some big benefit I'm missing? Anything it gives that would be worth trading CCleric's skill points?

Is there some other PrC that would work better? Sacred Exorcist is an option, but the abilities don't seem that terrific, the skill points are horrible, the Fort save is worse, and the level 5 ability would definitely raise some demonic eyebrows.

[eggs]

Free action summoning is hard to object to, and at worst, Augment and Planar Cohort are free feats.

[Urpriest]

I've heard good things about Paragnostic Apostle as good late-build caster filler.

[Spuddles]

If you go with a source of variant turning, you can pick up turning again with sacred exorcist. It's the only way to get a lot of mileage out of DMM without resorting to nightsticks. If you're using DMM, anyway.

Personally I am not a big fan of malconvoker, as trading in caster levels for +trivial for my summons doesn't appeal to me.

Contemplative and divine oracle are pretty good dips- a free domain from the former and evasion in any armor from the latter. Not sure on the feat tax for divine oracle, but contemplative only needs an easy roleplay req met and skill points in stuff you should have skill points in anyway.

[Telonius]

Thanks for the replies!

eggs - Good catch on the free action summons from contingent conjuration. Augment is a prereq for Malconvoker, though, so I'd already have it. Four levels is a while to wait for goodies...

Urpriest - Thanks! I'll have to check with a friend of mine on Complete Champion when I get the chance.

Spuddles - Not planning on using DMM. The build is kind of feat-starved (two prereqs for Malconvoker, plus Leadership). If I go the typical DMM route, that would spend those four remaining feats on Extend, Persist, DMM(Persist), and (probably) Extra Turning. If it didn't take so long for DMM to turn on (it would probably be no earlier than 15), I'd say sure - but I'm trying to make it as useful as possible over all 20 levels.

Malconvoker is central to the character concept, and it does give the equivalent of a free Twin Spell for summoning Evil creatures, which he'll be doing quite a lot.

Thanks for the tip on Contemplative. I'd forgotten that CDiv gave Boccob a couple extra domains! (Otherwise, I'd already have all three of his PHB domains - two from regular Cleric, plus Knowledge from Cloistered). The Mind domain would be perfect for this guy, both for the Bluff bonus and for Mind Blank.

Divine Oracle is tempting, but as you mention there is the feat tax. Might be worth it, though - and it would be amusing to have access to all of Boccob's domains.

[Spuddles]

Are you particularly hung up on boccob? Cause I'd want a deity that offered run or summoning or something. Or perhaps no deity at all.

[Telonius]

Whatever the deity, it would have to be one where I could have one alignment axis as Good (turning evil against itself at great personal risk would almost have to be that, imo), have Trickery as a domain (Bluff needs to be as high as possible), and have a deity that doesn't care if he's using divine spells to summon evil creatures. The only three from Core that fit that, at all, would be Garl Glittergold, Boccob, or Olidammara. He doesn't strike me as being a worshipper of Garl, so it's Boccob or Oli. Boccob seemed the cleaner fit, but I suppose Oli could work for a CG character.

CDiv has Trithereon, who might fit for a Summoner - but I'm not sure how a god of Liberation would feel about using Planar Binding to force demons to serve you.

[Answerer]

Personally I am not a big fan of malconvoker, as trading in caster levels for +trivial for my summons doesn't appeal to me.
Five levels of free metamagic is hardly trivial.

[Keld Denar]

CDiv has Trithereon, who might fit for a Summoner - but I'm not sure how a god of Liberation would feel about using Planar Binding to force demons to serve you.

As long as you do it ironically while wearing horn rimmed glasses and a flannel while drinking PBR, it's fine.

[Spuddles]

Whatever the deity, it would have to be one where I could have one alignment axis as Good (turning evil against itself at great personal risk would almost have to be that, imo), have Trickery as a domain (Bluff needs to be as high as possible), and have a deity that doesn't care if he's using divine spells to summon evil creatures. The only three from Core that fit that, at all, would be Garl Glittergold, Boccob, or Olidammara. He doesn't strike me as being a worshipper of Garl, so it's Boccob or Oli. Boccob seemed the cleaner fit, but I suppose Oli could work for a CG character.

CDiv has Trithereon, who might fit for a Summoner - but I'm not sure how a god of Liberation would feel about using Planar Binding to force demons to serve you.

You could try this for something obscure:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_deities


Five levels of free metamagic is hardly trivial.

It is when you put it on mediocre spells.



As long as you do it ironically while wearing horn rimmed glasses and a flannel while drinking PBR, it's fine.

"it's from an obscure dragon magazine. You wouldnt have heard of it before"

[eggs]

Malconvoker's "five levels of free metamagic" slogan is kind of deceptive. By default, one spell level gives Summon Monster N+1 for 1d3 Summon Monster N options, and round/level durations tend to be encounter-long, and not much more, whether they're 5 rounds or 30.

EDIT:
It's still awesome on divine casters, though. Planar Binding spells are crazy and alignment restrictions are often genuinely problematic.

[Spuddles]

The planar binding stuff is incredible, but if you really want to do it, play a wizard or something.

Can true neutral clerics summon anything with a non-neutral alignment? I nver play divine casters other than droods.

[Mithril Leaf]

Or, you know, be a Neraphim Archivist Malconvoker. They get very broken very fast, what with picking up summoning feats and binding 22 HD fiends with greater planar binding.

[Eiko]

Plenty of directions you can go with levels, but there's a feat I'd recommend you if you still have the space.

Fiendish Summoning specialist from the Planar handbook would allow you to add one creature of evil alignment to each level of summon monster. You have to talk to your DM about each one, but you should be able to pick up some good versatility with this.

[Alleran]

Or, you know, be a Neraphim Archivist Malconvoker. They get very broken very fast, what with picking up summoning feats and binding 22 HD fiends with greater planar binding.
Use Implore instead. The HD cap is now 28 (with Fiendish Bargainer and Improved Calling). If you can finagle getting into Cosmic Descryer pre-20th level (probably only get a single level at 20th, unless you really mess with shenanigan skill gains, but one level is all you need), then the first-level class feature you gain is another +4 increase to HD cap, kicking it up to 32 HD creatures.

[Acanous]

I thought the traditional Malconvoker build was Rogue/Beholder Mage/Malconvoker for the 9's.
Cleric works too, but there's problems with Ur-Priest and Malconvoker. I guess you could roleplay the alignment shift, but would the spellcasting also go away? o.0

[Keld Denar]

I don't think Beholder Mage is traditional for any build. BM is more or less TO only for 99% of groups.