Halberd Skirmish build [3.5]

[ThiagoMartell]

I've been invited to play in a short campaign with some people from work. They don't seem to be very high op, but they are experient players. I don't weant t play anything broken, so I'm staying away from full casters.
Campaign is about exploring an island and we're starting at level 7. It's 3.5 only, no Pathfinder, and I'm a bit rusty when it comes to this. It's Greyhawk, if that makes any difference.
My plan is to have a skirmish build, Scout/Paladin of Freedom/Dragon Devotee eventually going into Unseen Seer. I plan to use Travel Devotion to move and to trigger skirmish and Spinning Halberd and Planar Touchstone (oxyrynchus) for extra attacks.

My main question here is if Power Attack would be better here (a secondary source of damage) or if I should focus on pumping initiative so I can get the most out of my planar touchstone. Also, can you suggest any Paladin alternate class features that help on mobility? I remember something for halflings and gnomoes but I want to play a medium humanoid.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Keld Denar]

Well, make sure that you have at least 4 levels of Paladin for Turn Undead to power your Travel Devotion, if thats the route you want to take. I like Spinning Halberd. Its a crappy feat, but its kinda fun, and interesting. Good on you for using it. Too bad Halberd's don't have reach, though.

[Twilightwyrm]

This is an interesting case, since it does not specify that you are treating it as if fighting with two weapons. This means that, for the purposes of both attacks, you are wielding the Halberd in two hands, thus giving you a 2:1 exchange rate on power attack. So yes, I would suggest getting power attack.
I would also recommend getting the Charging Smite ACF, since you can, as a sorcerer (or at least a character with sorcerer spells) get Rhino's charge, meaning you can effectively pounce with it, giving you your smite damage while you do your spinning attack, and adding Skirmish damage to boot. Getting someone to buff you with haste, (or doing it yourself) will also help you get the most out of Spinning Halberd and Skirmish, and investing in mithral medium armor will help you retain your base movement speed bonuses.
I would also suggest enchanting your weapon with one of the elemental damage properties, as extra sources of damage get drastically increased returns when combined with multiple attacks (which is part of how a 20th level Swordsage can dish out over 1000 damage in a single turn). You, of course, will still be doing far more moderate amounts of damage, but I imagine it still still be respectable. Even more so than on a Power Attacker build, strength bonuses will be very helpful on your build, as its effects get multiplied for each extra hit you have. With this in mind, I recommend Fist of Stone as one of your first spells. +6 to Strength for minutes per level, and you gain a slam attack to boot.
All this, of course, assumes you are going more for offense than defense, but despite the minor bonus to AC, the Spinning Halberd feat does not really lend itself well to defense. You could, of course, do a number of other things, including adding Leap Attack, or Battle Jumper, or any number of other things to this character to skyrocket charging damage, but it is probably unnecessary for your particular game. So long as you don't have any Batman wizards on the team, you really have no reason to demonstrate how direct damage can kill faster than a save-or-die spell, so you will likely be able to be find just beating people up with multi-attack skirmish damage.
On a final note: If you can, get a bard, either as a party member or a cohort (One with Devoted Performer, so as not to violate your Paladin vows). Perhaps even more so than a dedicated wizard or cleric, a bard will be able to help your damage out put, especially if you are willing to give them Dragonfire Inspiration, but even if not. Inspire Courage, and Inspire Greatness will be of considerable help to not just you, but the rest of the party, and with the Bard's secondary ability to heal and boost the other members of your team, it will be a role everyone will be happy to have.

[ThiagoMartell]

Well, make sure that you have at least 4 levels of Paladin for Turn Undead to power your Travel Devotion, if thats the route you want to take. I like Spinning Halberd. Its a crappy feat, but its kinda fun, and interesting. Good on you for using it. Too bad Halberd's don't have reach, though.
Yeah, I have exactly 4 levels of Paladin in this build.


This is an interesting case, since it does not specify that you are treating it as if fighting with two weapons. This means that, for the purposes of both attacks, you are wielding the Halberd in two hands, thus giving you a 2:1 exchange rate on power attack. So yes, I would suggest getting power attack.
That's what I thought as well. Don't think anything else justifies delaying this.


I would also recommend getting the Charging Smite ACF, since you can, as a sorcerer (or at least a character with sorcerer spells) get Rhino's charge, meaning you can effectively pounce with it, giving you your smite damage while you do your spinning attack, and adding Skirmish damage to boot. Getting someone to buff you with haste, (or doing it yourself) will also help you get the most out of Spinning Halberd and Skirmish, and investing in mithral medium armor will help you retain your base movement speed bonuses.
Rhino Rush is a paladin spell, so getting it would be easy. Don't want to be a charger, though - not only do I already have Travel Devotion, this groups uses tactical positioning as written, meaning charging is not always easy.


I would also suggest enchanting your weapon with one of the elemental damage properties, as extra sources of damage get drastically increased returns when combined with multiple attacks (which is part of how a 20th level Swordsage can dish out over 1000 damage in a single turn).
I might get a corrosive enhancement to go with oxyrynchus.


You, of course, will still be doing far more moderate amounts of damage, but I imagine it still still be respectable. Even more so than on a Power Attacker build, strength bonuses will be very helpful on your build, as its effects get multiplied for each extra hit you have. With this in mind, I recommend Fist of Stone as one of your first spells. +6 to Strength for minutes per level, and you gain a slam attack to boot.
I'll be more Dex focused, actually. Between skirmish and Power Attack I think I'll have enough damage to go by and I need Dex for initiative and oxyrynchus.


All this, of course, assumes you are going more for offense than defense, but despite the minor bonus to AC, the Spinning Halberd feat does not really lend itself well to defense. You could, of course, do a number of other things, including adding Leap Attack, or Battle Jumper, or any number of other things to this character to skyrocket charging damage, but it is probably unnecessary for your particular game. So long as you don't have any Batman wizards on the team, you really have no reason to demonstrate how direct damage can kill faster than a save-or-die spell, so you will likely be able to be find just beating people up with multi-attack skirmish damage.
Won't be charging and I wouldn't be using Battle Jump in Greyhawk. it is a FR regional feat, after all.


On a final note: If you can, get a bard, either as a party member or a cohort (One with Devoted Performer, so as not to violate your Paladin vows). Perhaps even more so than a dedicated wizard or cleric, a bard will be able to help your damage out put, especially if you are willing to give them Dragonfire Inspiration, but even if not. Inspire Courage, and Inspire Greatness will be of considerable help to not just you, but the rest of the party, and with the Bard's secondary ability to heal and boost the other members of your team, it will be a role everyone will be happy to have.
It looks like we'll have a Bard in the team, but I don't think she'll be very optimized towards IC.

[Person_Man]

There's no synergy in a Paladin/Scout build. It's nice that Travel Devotion can trigger a little bonus damage from Skirmish. But there are plenty of ways to get pounce or free movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) (and much more reliable sources of bonus damage). The Scout lacks full BAB (nerfs Power Attack & to-hit) and generally wants to wear light armor (Skills, Evasion, Fast Movement), the Paladin is basically a tank who works best when mounted (your Special Mount is your most powerful class feature, but being mounted won't trigger Skirmish). You also run into serious MAD problems, with a need for high Dex, Cha, and Con, and burning a feat on Weapon Finesse or the Greater Manyshot tree.

So I would personally just pick one or the other, rather then trying to shoehorn them together. If you're looking for Tier 3 or lower skillful tank with good damage output, you might want to consider Incarnate, Binder, Psychic Rogue, or Wildshape Ranger.

If you stick with Scout, remember that you can use Skirmish to trigger any Feat that requires Sneak Attack. Staggering Strike, Craven, Devoted Inquisitor, etc.

If you stick with Paladin, remember that you can use any spell trigger item for a Paladin spell without a UMD check, and you can put wands into wand chambers of any weapon (Dungeonscape). The Paladin gets Holy Sword, and a lot of other great spell options in various splat books - Knight's Move, Rhino's Rush, and many others.

[ThiagoMartell]

There's no synergy in a Paladin/Scout build. It's nice that Travel Devotion can trigger a little bonus damage from Skirmish. But there are plenty of ways to get pounce or free movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) (and much more reliable sources of bonus damage). The Scout lacks full BAB (nerfs Power Attack & to-hit) and generally wants to wear light armor (Skills, Evasion, Fast Movement), the Paladin is basically a tank who works best when mounted (your Special Mount is your most powerful class feature, but being mounted won't trigger Skirmish). You also run into serious MAD problems, with a need for high Dex, Cha, and Con, and burning a feat on Weapon Finesse or the Greater Manyshot tree.
Thanks for your suggestions, but that won't be an issue. I'm not getting the familiar and I'm going for Dragon Devotee and Unseen Seer. Three ability scores is not hard to keep, specially when you're getting bonuses from Dragon Devotee. Of course I could do a build that dealt my damage, it's just not what I wanted.


So I would personally just pick one or the other, rather then trying to shoehorn them together. If you're looking for Tier 3 or lower skillful tank with good damage output, you might want to consider Incarnate, Binder, Psychic Rogue, or Wildshape Ranger.
That's not what I'm looking for, thanks.