Malazans and Moranth Munitions

[Eugenides]

So I'm DMing a campaign, and I'm ripping a rather large amount of conceptual territory from the book series The Malazan Book of the Fallen. If you know what that is, I'm talking about Moranth Munitions and their balance.

If you don't, there's an Empire, the Malazan Empire. One of their sort of trademark things is that they have sappers who use Moranth munitions. These munitions range in size and effect. The types are: Smokers (obvious effect), Crackers(used for cracking fortifications by being placed under them), Sharpers(effectively fragmentation grenades), Flamer/Burner (incendiary grenade), and the last, and most famous, the Cusser.

For Smokers and Flamers I was thinking of just putting spell effects in circular radii that were smaller than the spell, and calling it a day.

For Crackers and Sharpers, however, I am a little uncertain. They are supposed to be able to flat-out kill your average soldier in the radius. I don't don't know who well this translates to the DnD universe, however.

The last one, the Cusser, is the one I'm worried about. It's the most powerful, and if players get their hands on it, it could be a problem. It's called a Cusser because you technically can't throw it far enough by hand to not kill yourself with the explosion. These things dig craters. In the books, several Dragons get messed up/incapacitated by these, and Dragons are, simply put, quite quite powerful even in that universe.

Any suggestions for how to work this? The concept is that militaries that aren't used to guerrilla tactics with explosives tend to get shredded by the Malazans, but if the players end up getting their hands on some, I don't want it to trivialize the campaign. Should I just make it so that they don't get their hands on any? They are quite volatile, so I can reasonably just say taht if a sapper dies, his munitions go off, and they also tend to be quite possessive, so they wouldn't share with the players willingly if allied.

I don't think that this counts as homebrew since it's mostly a balance and tweaking question, but if a mod thinks otherwise, please move it to the appropriate forum.

Thanks guys!

[TuggyNE]

For Crackers and Sharpers, however, I am a little uncertain. They are supposed to be able to flat-out kill your average soldier in the radius. I don't don't know who well this translates to the DnD universe, however.

I'd suggest tuning straight damage (of an appropriate type) to kill an "average soldier" (of perhaps 3rd to 8th level, Fighter class, 10-12 Con, 10-14 Dex). If you decide that most soldiers are level 5 or less, for example, then make it do 15d6, which should kill all but the most stubborn soldiers on all but the lowest of rolls; be sure to peg the save DC high enough to make said average soldiers nearly always fail (poor Reflex progression + 2 Dex = +3 save at 5th, so DC 20 or better for good results). Alternatively, use weighted damage dice (10d6+20, say) and only a partial or even no save (this is a little less standard).


Should I just make it so that they don't get their hands on any? They are quite volatile, so I can reasonably just say taht if a sapper dies, his munitions go off, and they also tend to be quite possessive, so they wouldn't share with the players willingly if allied.

That's probably fair. However, despite your best efforts, there's still a good chance the players will get some; be sure to stat them out ahead of time and have a backup strategy for when they do. (In particular, an Empire as advanced as this is likely to have some means of quietly disabling munitions if they're no longer attended properly, and some explosives lose volatility rapidly after preparation naturally.)

[Eugenides]

Ok, you jumped right on the crux of the matter, making the items. I like the input, that's fairly helpful.

Question 2 is: if they end up fighting against the players, will these items make the challenge too difficult? Or will they trivialize things if players get their hands on them? I'm sort of worried about that part of the balance issue.

[Fitz10019]

I suggest you make Handle Munitions a trained-only skill, assign a base DC to each type, and require a skill roll to handle one safely. I suggest that only non-magical classes get this skill as a class skill. Munition creation should be an alchemy check.

Each of these actions should have varying DC modifiers:
Pick one up as a move action
Pick one up as a full-round action
Double move while carrying one
Single move while carrying one
Move quarter speed while carrying one
Double move while mounted and carrying one
Single move while mounted and carrying one
Move quarter speed while mounted and carrying one
Store one in a mundane backpack
Retrieve one from a mundane backpack
Store one in extra-dimensional space
Retrieve one from extra-dimensional space
Throw as a standard action
Throw as a full round action

You'll also need Armor Classes and HPs for the shell of each type of munition. Think about how PCs would implement the acid-delay trick, and the drum, and what the mechanic and variables should be.

Dropping one should have a % chance of detonation. That could be based on the power of the munition, or on its AC/HPs.

When a PC carrying a munition has 5 or more ranks in Handle Munitions, he has the option to auto-fail an area effect for full damage to himself but protect the munitions he is carrying (preventing their detonation). You could up this to 10 or 15 as a mechanism for keeping the PCs away from deadlier munitions until they are higher level.

Addition:
I think there's a feat that makes area spells also push people to the edge of the area's effect. One or more of the munitions should do that, too. It will be interesting tactically.

Offer a save bonus to prone characters. Munitions usually detonate on the ground, unlike spell effects.

[Eugenides]

Fitz you genius you.

[Ianuagonde]

I suggest you make Handle Munitions a trained-only skill. Munition creation should be an alchemy check.

This is an excellent idea. And remember the books: sappers generally learned by trial and error. In the description of these soldiers, you'll find lots of mentions of burned hair, burns caused by acid drops, and scars made by shrapnel fragments. Each munition is hand-made, so they need to adjust, for example, the amount of acid needed to burn through the clay and detonate the thing.The Malazans use the stuff, but they have no idea how to make them. They don't even know how they work, scientifically speaking. The same can be applied to the players.

So, if a player wants to use one, he/she needs the munition in one hand, the method of detonation in the other (torch? acid flask), and oh-so-carefully put the two together (Concentration check optional) and throw the thing. In the middle of combat, that is very hard, takes a lot of actions, and leaves a character without hands available for weapons or shield. Using munitions without training? Can players even identify a Smoker from a Cusser? Good luck.

[Fitz10019]

I wouldn't use the 'light-a-fuse' approach. I would rule that the interior combusts when exposed to air, and throwing them cracks the shell. With fuses, players would argue that Cold damage does not set them off. With air-exposure, any damage that can be applied to the shell can result in an explosion. [Maybe oxygen instead, for underwater detonations.]

The slow-burning acid (the closest the books come to a fuse, that I recall) could be a different alchemy check to create acid that works slowly (or to dilute a batch of normal acid). Ianuagonde's Concentration Check idea would fit well with the steady hand needed to apply the right amount of acid to a cusser. You might invent a new synergy, 5 or more ranks in Handle Munitions gives a +2 to Concentration when applying acid to a munition. This would give cussers a different feel [and PC investment requirement] than the throwable munitions.

Eventually players will try placing the cusser and then shooting at it. You could rule that cusser shells have DR 15/ bludgeoning, to edge out bows and limit the range of remote detonation. Ranged attacks could also get a teardrop-shaped result, pointing towards the source of the arrow, with a smaller radius/power at the location of the cusser. You'll want acid to be the most effective trigger, I think, and reward PCs taking the traditional sapper approach.

What is too much for a cusser (15 feet of stone/masonry?) and what happens to that power when it is rebuffed? These aren't Fireballs with a specific Mystra-defined radius. The circle blast of a cusser should become a half-circle blast in some circumstances, and that half-circle should have a bigger radius (standard radius x 2 - 5 feet?).

Goofy story tangent:Years ago I read the manual for my then-cellphone, and there was one line that has always stuck in my mind. "Do not answer this phone while it is charging, because that may cause the explosion."
Note, it's 'may cause the explosion' [when it should be 'may cause an explosion'], implying 'the (inevitable) explosion', as in you don't want to be in the act of answering this phone when the inevitable explosion occurs.
Good advice, I thought.