Erase.... Explosive Runes?

[TopCheese]

How do you erase explosive runes? If you read them then they go off don't they?

It says in the text of the spell that it is possible to erase them and accidentally set them off.

Sooo how does this work?

[Flickerdart]

It's dark. You are trying to write something down, and ask a stranger for a piece of paper. He hands you one, and says that it's got some pencil on it, but here's an eraser, and then disappears into the darkness. You begin to blindly erase the paper, suspecting nothing...

[Jeff the Green]

Illiterate wizard?

[SnowballMan]

It references using the Erase (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/erase.htm) spell. You must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level ) against a DC of 15 or the runes explode.

You could also use Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm).

Or a fighter with lots of hit dice. And a good sense of humor.

[TuggyNE]

Illiterate wizard?

Or just a barbarian.

[Jeff the Green]

Or just a barbarian.

How many barbarians carry around an eraser? :smalltongue:

I actually think explosive runes can only be removed through either dispelling them or using an erase spell (or a spell based on erase).

[Jasdoif]

You're not at risk from your own explosive runes in normal situations; you can read and remove them as you see fit, per the spell description.


You and any characters you specifically instruct can read the protected writing without triggering the runes. Likewise, you can remove the runes whenever desired. Another creature can remove them with a successful dispel magic or erase spell, but attempting to dispel or erase the runes and failing to do so triggers the explosion.

[SaintRidley]

How many barbarians carry around an eraser? :smalltongue:

Um, all of them. We tend to call them axes and swords. And other implements of destruction. They just... erase things that aren't paper.

[ericgrau]

Erase is a close range spell and you need to be next to the explosive runes to be close enough to read them. In the Dungeon of Annoyingly Repetitive Trapped Writing after a couple booms you start erasing everything at a distance without reading it.

A symbol spell would be more complicated since looking at it at all activates it, but erase doesn't work on symbol spells anyway.

[TuggyNE]

Um, all of them. We tend to call them axes and swords. And other implements of destruction. They just... erase things that aren't paper.

"Crunk erase puny magic-man!" :smalltongue:

[SaintRidley]

"Crunk erase puny magic-man!" :smalltongue:

Crunk get what Ridley saying.

[Answerer]

you need to be next to the explosive runes to be close enough to read them.
Pretty sure that the actual distance for this is undefined; this is the basis for the enormous banners of explosive runes unfurled over an army and such....

[BowStreetRunner]

I actually think explosive runes can only be removed through either dispelling them or using an erase spell (or a spell based on erase).

That depends on whether you care if the surface to which they are attached remains intact. Disintegrate works wonders as an alternative to Erase or Dispel on Explosive Runes. :smalltongue:

[ericgrau]

Pretty sure that the actual distance for this is undefined; this is the basis for the enormous banners of explosive runes unfurled over an army and such....



Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them)

You could try to interpret this statement as meaning someone next to the runes is close enough to read them, but someone far away is also close enough to read them. But then the statement would become meaningless.

In context it is much more likely that the runes are as small as book writing and so you need to be next to them to read them, or at least within 5 feet. As implied by this part:


You trace these mystic runes upon a book, map, scroll, or similar object bearing written information...


Open a book. Set it 10 feet away. Now try to read it.

I know "RAW" is often applied as "the loosest interpretation possible that lets me exploit it to its fullest" but rarely does this make sense and it isn't necessarily RAW either. It's ambiguous at best. Just one interpretation. Being that it's looking to exploit in a heavily biased fashion it's unlikely to be the best interpretation.

[Heatwizard]

Pretty sure that the actual distance for this is undefined; this is the basis for the enormous banners of explosive runes unfurled over an army and such....

I don't know how large a banner you could get when the target is "One touched object weighing no more then 10 lb.". Cloth gets pretty heavy.

[jaybird]

I don't know how large a banner you could get when the target is "One touched object weighing no more then 10 lb.". Cloth gets pretty heavy.

Cotton cloth is about 1.5g/cm cubed. I'll let someone else do the math.

[Jeff the Green]

Cotton cloth is about 1.5g/cm cubed. I'll let someone else do the math.

Canvas is ~300 g/m^2, so you could get a 15 square meter canvas banner. Going purely off of a guess, I'm going to say that you could use fabric half as heavy as canvas, so you could get a 30 square meter banner.

[Answerer]

You could try to interpret this statement as meaning someone next to the runes is close enough to read them, but someone far away is also close enough to read them. But then the statement would become meaningless.

In context it is much more likely that the runes are as small as book writing and so you need to be next to them to read them, or at least within 5 feet. As implied by this part:


Open a book. Set it 10 feet away. Now try to read it.

I know "RAW" is often applied as "the loosest interpretation possible that lets me exploit it to its fullest" but rarely does this make sense and it isn't necessarily RAW either. It's ambiguous at best. Just one interpretation. Being that it's looking to exploit in a heavily biased fashion it's unlikely to be the best interpretation.
A. "next to the runes (close enough to read them)" is, by the rules of English grammar, stating that the requirement is that one be next to them, where "next to them" is defined as "close enough to read them."

B. Books, and far more so scrolls and maps, come a variety of sizes. The map on the wall of my classroom in 6th grade was large enough to be easily read from the other side of the classroom, for example.

C. I never said that any particular interpretation was correct or even best, I actually stated the opposite of that: that your interpretation was not explicitly spelled out by the rules. This last point is, in fact, exactly the point I was trying to make: you cannot state that it only works if you are within 5 ft., because that is not what the rules say. What the rules say is ambiguous, but injecting the least amount of interpretation into it suggests that reading the runes, from any distance, is acceptable. 5 ft. never comes up, and the rules never use the term "adjacent" as they might if they were talking about squares. The term "next to" is not defined by the game rules – except in the text of explosive runes itself, where it says "(close enough to read them)" That's all the information we have. Trying to claim that anything more than that is certain is, in my mind, inherently dishonest. By stating, as a fact, that it is safe to read them from 10 ft. away, you are telling others that an ambiguous rule, in fact, matches your own personal preference for how it be played. This is neither respectful to others who might have another opinion, nor honest to those who are not familiar with the text in question.

[ericgrau]

And nothing in RAW says you can't keep fighting after you're dead. Doesn't matter. Go with the interpretation that makes the most sense. The slightest hair of ambiguity is not a license to do whatever you want. "The rules don't say I can't" is not a valid reason.

Could be wrong, but an obvious attempt to exploit a legalistic hole is much more likely to be wrong. Personally I think the rule books are already long enough and wouldn't want them to be 4 times longer as a legal document.

[Flickerdart]

And nothing in RAW says you can't keep fighting after you're dead.
Sure it does. If your non-lethal damage exceeds your HP, you're unconscious. Since your HP is -10, your non-lethal damage exceeds it whatever it is and you can't fight.

Nice try, though.

[Answerer]

And nothing in RAW says you can't keep fighting after you're dead. Doesn't matter. Go with the interpretation that makes the most sense. The slightest hair of ambiguity is not a license to do whatever you want. "The rules don't say I can't" is not a valid reason.

Could be wrong, but an obvious attempt to exploit a legalistic hole is much more likely to be wrong. Personally I think the rule books are already long enough and wouldn't want them to be 4 times longer as a legal document.
I'm not opposed to you ruling it that way.

I'm opposed to you lying to other members of this forum by saying that this is what the book actually says. And yes, that is exactly what you are doing.

[Zeful]

A. "next to the runes (close enough to read them)" is, by the rules of English grammar, stating that the requirement is that one be next to them, where "next to them" is defined as "close enough to read them."

Actually with "close enough to read them" being in parenthesis without the use of "for example", "e.g." or even the grammatically incorrect "i.e.", it's parenthetical information, it's only use being for further clarification of the body statement it's attached to, and can be fully excised with no change in meaning to the body statement. Your interpretation actually changes the meaning of the original statement with the inclusion of the parenthetical clause, breaking formal English grammatical constructions, and thus must be the wrong reading based on those same rules.

Thus the parenthetical clause is defining that you can only read the runes while you are next to them, regardless of their size in relation to the vision of the reader.

EDIT: Actually, having read through the argument again. Every variation on the text other than "next to the runes or close enough to read them" would only be clarification of the initial "next to the runes", signifying that you have to be next to the runes to read them.

[killem2]

do you really need the paper it is on that bad? burn it? :P