Possible house rule to make Blasters Feesable.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, so, Evocation is generally regarded as a weak school of magic, and thats mostly because just spamming direct damage is a sub-par option since other classes and builds do it better, and even other casters like the mail man can do it better with out actually using Evocation spells.

Now, based on a forum post in another topic I just read, I've had an idea. What if every Evocation had a rider effect? Every Fireball and lighting bolt and other ka-boom spell forced a reflex (Or whatever save it presently does or doesn't force.) for the damage, and then if you don't manage to totally skirt damage (I.E., successful save with evasion.) they automatically inflict a negative Debuffing condition depending on things like spell level, caster level, energy type?


It's an idea that literally just popped into my head t do to the whole school, so I'd love some feedback.

[Yora]

Sounds like many people would want to lower the save DCs for their spells because they have better effects when the spell misses than when it hits.

Also, blasting already is good. What this would accomplish is just taking some casters who are not completely broken yet and make them broken.

[jaybird]

^ This. Blasting is already excellent, it's just terrible compared to SoS spells, which are quite OP'd. For example, in Pathfinder, with pretty much no abusable metamagic, I could still build a Wizard that cast 21d6 Fireballs as level 5 spells, 15d6 as level 4 spells, and 14d6 as level 3 spells, at level 10, along with all the OTHER nasty Wizard tricks like Baleful Polymorph, Glitterdust, Black Tentacles, Mirror Image, Displacement, and Overland Flight.

Please don't improve full casters any more.

[Flickerdart]

14d6 is only 49 damage on average, which is extremely crummy output at 10th level.

The problem with blasting is that anyone can do damage, so your party members are probably also in the damage game. "X, and also some damage" is a lot more helpful than "damage, and then some X", because damage doesn't actually stop anyone from murdering you back unless you've killed them, and then any riders you had don't matter.

[eggs]

The thing that makes blasting sub-par is that it doesn't win scenes with a single casting the way that other spells do. That's not a problem that needs fixing.

(Besides, most blasting specialists can already throw rider effects around with effects like Born of Three Thunders or Fell X or just by picking spells like Great Thunderclap or Orb of X)

[Tvtyrant]

If you want to make blasting work, I suggest you make blasting spells work as a buff. Something like Produce Flame, but throwing the fireballs/lightning bolts is an attack action so you can get iterative on them. 14d6 becomes 29d6, which is about 90 damage. Welcome to none-trivial land!

Mind you, this should only work in the absence of metamagic shenanigans, and only for straight damage evocation.

[Urpriest]

I agree that blasting should basically always have rider effects (though probably not exclusively on a miss). This doesn't have to be a power boost, you can tone down the damage and the other spells to compensate. Similarly, I think that the melee equivalent of blasting (characters focused on straight damage) shouldn't exist. Every attack, whether mundane or magical, should have a rider effect of some sort.

[jaybird]

14d6 is only 49 damage on average, which is extremely crummy output at 10th level.


It's also at 250 metres away and over a large area, for a low level slot, using one of the worst blasting spells, in a system with a single way of reducing metamagic costs. Something with a d8 HD and 14 Con (Cleric, Summoner, Magus, Inquisitor, Oracle...all T1s and T2s, note) averages out to under 70 hit points, and they have to pass two Reflex saves to not be knocked down to negative HP. Even if they do pass both saves (by no means guaranteed for anyone but a Rogue), all it takes is the BSF making a few iterative sneezes to finish them off.

Blasting is only weak in comparison to optimized SoS and THF options, and even then it can be somewhat respectable.

[Endelehia]

There are already damaging spells that have secondary negative effects,like orbs of - (which are conjuration but point made),wings of flurry etc.So your idea is perfectly within reason.But you shouldn't make that adjustment with no cost because,like other people have mentioned,casters are already powerful enough.
You could instead develop a new metamagic feat.Much like the Fell Frighten from LoM which is applied to a damaging spell to render its targets shaken,the new feat will be applied only to an evocation spell and its side-effect will be determined by type,cl etc.A +2 cost seems appropriate.

[mattie_p]

When I first saw the title of this thread, what I thought was "Oh, he wants to put laser blasters in his game. Cool." I was disappointed when I read the thread.:smallfrown:

[jaybird]

When I first saw the title of this thread, what I thought was "Oh, he wants to put laser blasters in his game. Cool." I was disappointed when I read the thread.:smallfrown:

Artificers with wands of Scorching Ray and Metamagic Wand Grips would like to have a word with you.

[Darius Kane]

Bring other schools/types of caster down to Blaster level.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

As others have said, the problem with blastomancy are:

1) It doesn't really do a lot of damage. Wounding a dozen opponents is less tactically valuable than neutralizing one, because a wounded opponent still functions at 100%, wheras a neutralized opponent can't.

2) Save or Lose effects which are AoE are also available at equivalent or lower levels, which DO neutralize opponents reliably.

3) Melee can do FAR more damage than blastomancy can, even multi-target, and isn't limited how many times per day they can swing.

There is no quick and easy fix here, the problem is inherent in the system. Melee outclasses blastomancy in damage output, and SoL is insta-win, so why bother?

You'd have to rewrite the whole DC system, rewrite the whole melee combat system, then rewrite how blastomancy works. In other words, you might be playing an RPG, but it wouldn't be D&D anymore.

One way to boost Blastomancy is to remove the Ref/half, make it 'no save, just get a little wounded'. It wouldn't be overpowered, but at least Evasion wouldn't laugh at it quite so hard anymore.

[Darius Kane]

One way to boost Blastomancy is to remove the Ref/half, make it 'no save, just get a little wounded'. It wouldn't be overpowered, but at least Evasion wouldn't laugh at it quite so hard anymore.
Wouldn't that make Evasion kind of useless?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wouldn't that make Evasion kind of useless?

Eh, it kinda needed to die in a fire anyways, since it pretty much made you immune to Ref/anything.

[Darius Kane]

Eh, it kinda needed to die in a fire anyways, since it pretty much made you immune to Ref/anything.
Lol. That's the first time I read that Evasion is too good.

[Mechanize]

Bring other schools/types of caster down to Blaster level.

This...

Casters are already stronger than the martial types... why not bring the other casters down a notch rather than buffing a still OP class.