Can Someone Explain why These Potions Cost So Much?

[XianTheCoder]

Level 1 Potions of Reduce Person and Enlarge person? The DMG randomly has them costing 250 gc a piece, when all other level 1 spells cost 50 (except those with expensive material components).

To add to the confusion, one of the later books (I think Races of Faerun), have them listed at 50 gc.

Anyone have any color on why they are listed at 250 gc in the DMG?

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC the potiond of Enlarge/reduce person are created at CL 5 thus the formula for them is 50(potion)* CL (5)= 250. AFAIK is a legacy of 3.0 where Enlarge/Reduce affected you by changing your size 10%/cl thus you needed at least CL 5 for a full size change.

[XianTheCoder]

IIRC the potiond of Enlarge/reduce person are created at CL 5 thus the formula for them is 50(potion)* CL (5)= 250. AFAIK is a legacy of 3.0 where Enlarge/Reduce affected you by changing your size 10%/cl thus you needed at least CL 5 for a full size change.

That would make sense... then it's reasonable to assume that the DMG price is really incorrect, since the spell no longer functions that way in 3.5..... the cost of the potions should really be 50 like all others?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh, the price is correct for a CL 5 potion, if you can find someone selling CL 1 Potions you should be able to buy them at 50 GP a pop. Now CL only determines Duration and normally 1 minute is enough for 1 fight so you should be fine.

[trollburgers]

Both Enlarge Person and Reduce Person (1st level spells) are full-round actions to cast. In order to be able to brew it into a potion, that takes a standard action to use, it has to be effectively Quickened.

A Quickened spell uses up a spell-slot 4 levels higher than normal.

Therefore cost = 50gp x 5 (level of spell) x 1 (caster level) = 250gp

[DementedFellow]

How does the spell being quickened affect the action it takes to use it?

Regardless of it being quickened wouldn't it still take a standard action to quaff the potion?

[trollburgers]

How does the spell being quickened affect the action it takes to use it?

Regardless of it being quickened wouldn't it still take a standard action to quaff the potion?

I should note that there are no official rules that I have found; this is just my interpretation.

Yes, it would still take a standard action to drink it, but, in order for the unaltered spell to be accurately represented, you would not grow or shrink until the end of your turn, and you could do nothing else the round you drank the potion but take a 5-foot step. This would be the same as casting Enlarge/Reduce Person (a full round casting).

In order to have the potion take the normal rules (drink the potion - gain the effect) in a single round, it stands to reason that the spell would have to be "quickened".

Two reasons for my belief:

1) the math checks out, and
2) drinking a potion of enlarge person and getting the effects takes the same amount of action as casting a quickened enlarge person and getting the effects.

You, of course, are entitled to come up with any reasoning you wish, or just have them sell for 50gp (in which case they become far more effective than actually casting the spell).

[TuggyNE]

1) the math checks out, and
2) drinking a potion of enlarge person and getting the effects takes the same amount of action as casting a quickened enlarge person and getting the effects.

It's not totally clear by RAW, but because the minimum CL one can normally cast Quickened enlarge person at is 9, arguably that should be the minimum CL for this interpretation. In which case, the math actually does not check out at all.


A potion or oil can be used only once. It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute.
[...]
Drinking a potion or using an oil on an item of gear is a standard action.

By RAW, the original casting time is irrelevant, as long as it's less than 10 rounds. Also, Quicken Spell does not reduce casting time of a full-round spell to a standard action: it reduces it to a swift action.


You, of course, are entitled to come up with any reasoning you wish, or just have them sell for 50gp (in which case they become far more effective than actually casting the spell).

I believe it's better to follow clear RAW here, and also throw Brew Potion users a bone: 50gp is the correct figure. (It's apparent that potion brewing of long-casting spells is intended to be a more efficient but rare use, and it's even common-sensical.)

[Gigas Breaker]

They are 50gp in the Magic Item Compendium at CL 1.

[trollburgers]

It's not totally clear by RAW, but because the minimum CL one can normally cast Quickened enlarge person at is 9, arguably that should be the minimum CL for this interpretation. In which case, the math actually does not check out at all.

We know CL can be set by the brewer of the potion; therefore a 9th level item crafter could prepare a potion with a CL of 1.



By RAW, the original casting time is irrelevant, as long as it's less than 10 rounds. Also, Quicken Spell does not reduce casting time of a full-round spell to a standard action: it reduces it to a swift action.

We also know that the potions contained in the DMG predate the inclusion of swift and immediate actions into the game.


I believe it's better to follow clear RAW here, and also throw Brew Potion users a bone: 50gp is the correct figure. (It's apparent that potion brewing of long-casting spells is intended to be a more efficient but rare use, and it's even common-sensical.)

With the exclusion of your assertion that 50gp is RAW (price is, as written, 250gp), I agree. I was merely providing OP my reasoning as to the 250gp price.

[TuggyNE]

We know CL can be set by the brewer of the potion; therefore a 9th level item crafter could prepare a potion with a CL of 1.

Correction: CL can be set by the brewer, down to the minimum CL needed to cast that spell. My argument was that the minimum CL needed to cast quickened enlarge person is, in fact, 9; therefore, that 9 is the lowest possible CL the potion could be brewed at.


We also know that the potions contained in the DMG predate the inclusion of swift and immediate actions into the game.

True. This does not help the case; Quickened spells used to be a free action, limited to 1/round. A free action is still not the same as a standard action.


With the exclusion of your assertion that 50gp is RAW (price is, as written, 250gp), I agree. I was merely providing OP my reasoning as to the 250gp price.

Gigas' comment on MIC price is relevant here; the only contradictory rules text anywhere is in the DMG, and should therefore be corrected or ignored.

[KillianHawkeye]

Gigas' comment on MIC price is relevant here; the only contradictory rules text anywhere is in the DMG, and should therefore be corrected or ignored.

This. Aside from introducing new magic items, the MIC specifically reprices some of the magic items found in the DMG. In the case of any differences, the MIC pricing should be used by RAW.