[PF] Half-Drow Paragon?

[Godot]

Hello board, I've found some useful posts here in the past so I thought I'd sign up and seek some advice.

I'm just about to start DMing in Pathfinder for the first time after having played it off and on for the better part of a year. One of my player characters wants to take the Half-Drow Paragon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/half-drow-paragon-half-elf) feat, and follow that up with the three Drow Nobility feats (1 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/drow-nobility-drow), 2 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/improved-drow-nobility-drow), 3 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/greater-drow-nobility-drow)) as he levels.

I'm a little concerned with the power level of these feats. Eventually having at-will Deeper Darkness seems pretty strong, and always-on Detect Magic seems like it could become very disruptive and a huge hassle. Do any of you have any thoughts or experience with this feat tree?

I don't want to rain on my player's character creation parade, but I don't have good feelings about this.

Thanks!

[Tokuhara]

Hello board, I've found some useful posts here in the past so I thought I'd sign up and seek some advice.

I'm just about to start DMing in Pathfinder for the first time after having played it off and on for the better part of a year. One of my player characters wants to take the Half-Drow Paragon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/half-drow-paragon-half-elf) feat, and follow that up with the three Drow Nobility feats (1 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/drow-nobility-drow), 2 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/improved-drow-nobility-drow), 3 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/greater-drow-nobility-drow)) as he levels.

I'm a little concerned with the power level of these feats. Eventually having at-will Deeper Darkness seems pretty strong, and always-on Detect Magic seems like it could become very disruptive and a huge hassle. Do any of you have any thoughts or experience with this feat tree?

I don't want to rain on my player's character creation parade, but I don't have good feelings about this.

Thanks!

Glad to see a new face on the boards.

Now, the Half Drow Paragon/Drow Noble line is on the medium end of the power scale of feats, depending on class. If s/he's a fighter, s/he has better options, but for a Full Caster, it may help more than it hinders. That being said, It's 4 out of the 11 feats your player gets available. Advise them to plan very carefully and not to abuse the feats.

[CreganTur]

Wow. Dropping four feats for that really doesn't seem overpowered for me. I'd let someone do it, but they're giving up a lot for it.

True, if the guy uses his starting feat, and I'm assuming 2 flaws, then he could have this at 3rd level at the earliest. It would be a little OP then, mainly due to Deeper Darkness, but as the game levels up these will come into play less and less.

[Novawurmson]

The feats seem balanced. Remember that level 0 spells are at-will for full casters. You player is giving up a feat for something a Wizard/Druid/Cleric etc. gets for free first level (though constant is better than 1-3 standard actions). Remember that Detect Magic has some unpleasant side-effects if he scans anything too powerful.

Deeper Darkness at-will is a bit more powerful, but remember that they could have just bought a wand of Deeper Darkness for 11,250 gp - and he's probably going to use it less than 50 times throughout his adventuring career.

[Godot]

Thanks for the quick replies, everyone! I really appreciate both the feedback and the reassurance that it isn't a broken tree.

The player in question is planning on taking these feats as a Half-Elf Bard, with the necessary racial trait swaps to qualify for this feat tree. Right now the mutual expectation is that he'll reach Greater Drow Nobility at level 7. I'm not sure how "flaws" work, are they part of the trait (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits) system?

I'm not really concerned with the power level of the 0-level spells at all, and I do know that cantrips are unlimited in PF. My concern with Detect Magic is that it's always on (instead of at will with infinite uses). It seems like it may become very difficult to create a magic-rich world with this ability in play.

Would it be out of line on my part to require still require the character to concentrate on his detect magic ability to use the spell effects? It doesn't seem like it'd be fun for the table if I announce how many magic auras are in every room every time. The point about Detect Magic's unpleasant side effects is well taken, and I'll put it to use if need be.

[Novawurmson]

Flaws are an optional 3.5 rule that allows players to take penalties on various things in exchange for bonus feats. I haven't heard of many PF groups that use them, but players like feats, so they might be open to the idea :smallwink:

I don't think it would be too out of line to require that the player focus to gain the full benefit of the feat, but talk with the player about it beforehand because that could be precisely what they want out of the feat.

[CreganTur]

My group is 3.P, so we allow flaws. We also allow them with the expectation that they will come into play at some point, so if you choose gullible as a flaw, be prepared to become someone's patsy at some point. :smallbiggrin:

Deeper Darkness also isn't that great unless he has access to something that lets him ignore its effects (blindfight, etc), because then he could use it as his own person killing fields. It probably won't come into play often since it will bork the rest of the party as well unless they have some special means to see through it.

[Darth Grall]

A player in my game is doing the same thing as the OP's, though he's going doing it as a bladebound kensai magus and was playing off the abilities as using several wands at lower levels(till a real wizard joined and his wands conviniently ran out of charge).

For the amount of feats you give up for it, it's totally fine. If he wanted he could just start as a Drow, and have even easier access to these feats. Plus there is a lot of flavor to play with there.

[karkus]

The guy's using up 4 feats, getting an ability that, unless if Tremorsense or another way of seeing in magical darkness is possessed, could hinder him as much as his enemies. You should definitely mention to him that, with a 4,000 gp magic item, he can get Detect Magic as a constant effect ("Goggles of Magic Detection?"), or a 900 gp magic item that allows him to do it on-command.

[CreganTur]

The guy's using up 4 feats, getting an ability that, unless if Tremorsense or another way of seeing in magical darkness is possessed, could hinder him as much as his enemies. You should definitely mention to him that, with a 4,000 gp magic item, he can get Detect Magic as a constant effect ("Goggles of Magic Detection?"), or a 900 gp magic item that allows him to do it on-command.

^This. I'm all for character flavor, but he's paying a lot for very little in return.