About to play TF2 for the first time...

[Dr.Epic]

Got any tips so I don't suck? Like, what not to do, what class is best for a first-timer, and what not to do as that class?

[Last Laugh]

Sure! Some classes in that game can be pretty complicated (spy for example might be hard for a new player, sniper is squishy and requires good aim, scoot is also squishy)

Starting with soldier or heavy wouldn't be a bad choice, they are classes that can be picked-up and played without too much difficulty. Don't let that stop you from trying every class tho, do the one you want to have fun with ^^.

You are probably going to die, lots. But theirs hope! If you can find a friendly medic try to protect him and keep him in arms length for heals! if you are badly injured (or moderately injured, whatevs) consider backing off to find a health kit. Most maps have lots of health and ammo kits and learning their general location is handy.

As soldier try to avoid shooting yourself to death. don't be afraid to spam. As hoovy keep in mind that if you aren't spun up your are vulnerable. If you ARE spun up you are super slow, try to spin up a little bit before you hit the action.

Some more general tips: Protect the objective at all costs! (or destroy the objective at all costs depending on team) Tf2 is an objective based game and it doesn't matter how many kills you get if your team loses the point/gives up flag capture/lets payload roll on by.
Once you get into the game a little bit more, have some idea what is going on in situations, understand the capabilities of each class, start asking yourself what lead to your death in each situation. It's a good way to try to get better.


YAY WALL OF TEXT

[Mando Knight]

Rule 1.) You're gonna suck. Sorry, that's just how it is.

I'd start with the tutorial, since there aren't any classes that map 1:1 with other FPSes, and it also covers basics on the weapon damages as a function of range (closer = more damage, different weapons have different situations where they're better than your other two). Complete the Spy and Engineer tutorials so you get a feel for how they work... don't play them yet, just realize what they do so you know what they're trying to do (and thus can either help or counter them).

The simplest class to play is Soldier, hands down. Shoot feet, get kills. Rocket Jumping is fancy footwork, but won't help you actually fight until you get pretty good at it.

[Maxios]

Don't play as a Spy until you have some experience. Also, I advise playing on ctf_2fort. It's a good beginner map.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Soldier is always good. Spam rockets at enemy feet (it gives a stunning and knockback effect if it hits the ground directly beneath them, I think).

Scout is a bunch of skirmishing fun. But know your limits, and don't be afraid to run away and find healing.

Engineer and Demoman require you to know the map to get the best use out of them, although Demoman is more forgiving than Engineer. Engineer is also a very defensive class (although mini-sentry is fast to build and easy to re-deploy, so you can pull off an Engineer on an offensive team if you have The Wrangler). Demoman, you can just spam grenades and stickies, offensive or defensive.

Sniper can be fun, but get to high ground and watch out for Spies. Make sure you look away from your scope every shot or two. If an ally is heading towards you, shoot him, he's a Spy. And DO NOT USE THE RAZORBACK. The Razorback is a crutch for the bad habit of looking through your rifle scope too long, and the Spy can just shoot you with his revolver and the Razorback won't do anything. Sniper is good on something like Capture the Flag, where the action will either be totally one-sided or will inevitably go both ways. He's also good on offense, where the defenders will mostly be focused on the guys pushing the payload bomb. It'd good to know the stage so you can waste no time getting to a tower or something.

Heavy... is strange. Some people get it right away. Others just can't. As a Heavy, you're probably right next to the Sniper in terms of "classes the Spy wants to backstab". But you're also right there in the middle of the action, unlike the Sniper who "only" has to worry about Spies and enemy Snipers and sometimes Soldiers who like to pretend to be Sniper. Medics are your best friends. Just punch (or shoot if you have Shotgun equipped) them first to make sure they're not Spies. Never stand still unless your back is against a wall, and if your back isnn't against a wall, find a wall. No backstabbing for Spy!

Spy is like the Heavy in terms of difficulty, except less people "get" Spy. Use cloaking, use disguise, use backstab, and use your firerarm.

Medic is, in my opinion, boring. But a lot of people like him, and a good medic can turn the tide. If you like playing healer in WoW, you'll probably like Medic.

Pyro I cannot give you much info about. But I can tell you two things: everyone is a Spy, burn them. And practice on Tennis servers (tennis is the art of using airblasts to deflect rockets).

[Arbane]

Everyone's covered the big points, so I'll just mention that as a Heavy, you go through ammo FAST. You can get more by picking up enemy weapons when they die. Also, you can keep the minigun spinning by holding down M2.

Pyros are entirely short-range, but they can do a LOT of damage. Also, you can blow enemy spies cover by puffing fire on your allies. If they catch fire, BURN THEM.

You might want to try playing Medic - you put on your Medigun, and run around healing your allies. If they're at full health, they get 'overheal' temp hitpoints. The Heavy gets the most benefit, but it helps anyone.

Watch your back. You can't hurt allies, so feel free to shoot at anyone behind you. THEY ARE ALWAYS SPIES. ALWAYS. :smallfurious:

For your amusement: The Team Fortress 2 Theme Song! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbaGodU_Gkw)

Anyway, have fun. TF2's a great game.

[Geno9999]

Check out this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253659), it's pretty much "TF2 + other games" Thread at this point.

As for actual tips, you know the meme "W+M1" Pyro? Yeah, that's actually less effective than people will say it is. Despite Pyro having the 3rd highest health, average speed, and can deal massive damage, it suffers massively from having little-to-no long range game outside of the Flare Guns. For me, being effective as a Pyro means either a) sneaking around behind enemy groups and then setting the whole lot on fire, or b) patrolling the base, checking for spies.

Don't be afraid to fall back on default or "Stock" weapons once you start getting the achievement weapons/build up a collection from random drops. Aside from a few weapons, there isn't a lot of weapons that are straight upgrades of the stock. Often, weapons have a one or two traits boosted while debuffing other areas. Some of them (like the Scottish Resistance, a Demoman unlockable) are extremely useful in some situations/game modes, while worthless in others.

Once you gotten used to playing as all or most of the classes, BE THE CLASS YOUR TEAM NEEDS YOU TO BE, NOT THE ONE YOU REALLY WANT TO PLAY AS. Want to be a spy, but your team already has two? That's a sign you shouldn't be a spy that round. This might be forgivable on large servers however.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Oh, and one more thing. If you're a Sniper, and you check behind you, and there's no one there, shoot down the corridor/catwalk anyway, and start swinging your kukri around before going back to your position. Spies can turn invisible.

And to address the above poster's last point... it depends on the class. In Mann vs Machine, you want no more than two of the same frontline class (Soldier, Heavy, Demo), up to a maximum of three frontliners. You also want one Scout, and no more than one of everything else. In PvP, you can pretty much always play a Soldier or Heavy, most of the time an Engineer, Pyro, or Medic is beneficial, and you don't want more than two Snipers or Spies.

[Squark]

I'm just going to echo the comment on unlockable weapons; Unlockables are not strictly better than the original version in most cases. Some may be arguably "better", but their use may require more skill.

[Grif]

I'm just going to echo the comment on unlockable weapons; Unlockables are not strictly better than the original version in most cases. Some may be arguably "better", but their use may require more skill.

That said, unlocks provide alternative playstyles which you may find fun.

A Direct Hit soldier will always play very differently from a vanilla Soldier. Dead Ringer Spies are completely worlds apart from Invis Watch Spies. The most extreme difference would be the Demoman and the Demoknight. One is completely melee, the other is pure range. And so on.

[Hiro Protagonest]

That said, unlocks provide alternative playstyles which you may find fun.

A Direct Hit soldier will always play very differently from a vanilla Soldier. Dead Ringer Spies are completely worlds apart from Invis Watch Spies. The most extreme difference would be the Demoman and the Demoknight. One is completely melee, the other is pure range. And so on.

Oh, I forgot about the Eylander (although there's a bunch of others, most of which have the same stats) and the Chargin' Targe. Yeah, if you want to play a Demoman as an offense class, you grab those two. It gives speed, power, and a curse that heals you whenever you behead an enemy.

[Mando Knight]

That said, unlocks provide alternative playstyles which you may find fun.

A Direct Hit soldier will always play very differently from a vanilla Soldier. Dead Ringer Spies are completely worlds apart from Invis Watch Spies. The most extreme difference would be the Demoman and the Demoknight. One is completely melee, the other is pure range. And so on.
Ringer Spies are the bane of most peoples' existence. In short, if you see a spy, kill him twice.

Also, the Demoknight has more support than the basic Demoman...

[Wings of Peace]

I'm on a cell right now so here's my abridged guide to helping the team. Be a Medic. Stock medic is fine but I personally would look into getting an ubersaw and overdose.

Important notes:

--Your UBER is the most important member of your team. If you have to make a choice between preserving your ubercharge and a teammate, pick the ubercharge.

-Stay in motion.

-Don't pocket unless you're picketing a pro or your pocket is in the process of wrecking **** that will improve your team's position such as a group of enemies or a turret at a choke point. Flipping quickly between team mates is good. Even if you don't have time to get a person to full health they'll still be able to take a few extra shots thanks to you.

-Overheal people whenever possible.

-Only Ubercharge when counter pushing or taking out key targets like a sentry. That said, if you're going to die anyways just pop uber and see what happens. You lose it if you die anyways.

-Learn to strafe well. Teams lacking pyros will try to body block you to make you fall far enough back to break your uber.

--Learn to hate Pyros. Then learn to position yourself in ways that minimize how far air blast will push you. Walls are good but hugging them might get you iuggled.

-Don't be a wuss. If you have a heavy or a good soldier don't be afraid to get in too deep. Your team doubles as cover.

-There is no team. Only you and your weapons. The heavy? You gun. The soldier? You bazooka. This mentality is important because when you enter a fight you need to be able to quickly decide which weapons are most important. If you're ubering a heavy and notice people stopped shooting him in favor of the soldier then start ubering the soldier. The Uber like marriage is a commitment that you can shift around if you decide you'll be better off.

-Don't always uber the heavy. Yes they're a good pair with you. But for example an ubered demo can wreck a sentry nest.

-Once you get a feel for the duration of your uber stand in front of people you're ubering. The bullets will still slow them down so if you soak them up it allows your partner to do their thing.

-Stay vigilant. You're in a good position to watch for spies and flanks. Use that.

-Voice chat will help a lot with coordination.

-Once you get an ubersaw learn to uberchain with another medic. It's hilarious.

[Wings of Peace]

I'm on a cell right now so here's my abridged guide to helping the team. Be a Medic. Stock medic is fine but I personally would look into getting an ubersaw and overdose.

Important notes:

--Your UBER is the most important member of your team. If you have to make a choice between preserving your ubercharge and a teammate, pick the ubercharge.

-Stay in motion.

-Don't pocket unless you're picketing a pro or your pocket is in the process of wrecking **** that will improve your team's position such as a group of enemies or a turret at a choke point. Flipping quickly between team mates is good. Even if you don't have time to get a person to full health they'll still be able to take a few extra shots thanks to you.

-Overheal people whenever possible.

-Only Ubercharge when counter pushing or taking out key targets like a sentry. That said, if you're going to die anyways just pop uber and see what happens. You lose it if you die anyways.

-Learn to strafe well. Teams lacking pyros will try to body block you to make you fall far enough back to break your uber.

--Learn to hate Pyros. Then learn to position yourself in ways that minimize how far air blast will push you. Walls are good but hugging them might get you iuggled.

-Don't be a wuss. If you have a heavy or a good soldier don't be afraid to get in too deep. Your team doubles as cover.

-There is no team. Only you and your weapons. The heavy? You gun. The soldier? You bazooka. This mentality is important because when you enter a fight you need to be able to quickly decide which weapons are most important. If you're ubering a heavy and notice people stopped shooting him in favor of the soldier then start ubering the soldier. The Uber like marriage is a commitment that you can shift around if you decide you'll be better off.

-Don't always uber the heavy. Yes they're a good pair with you. But for example an ubered demo can wreck a sentry nest.

-Once you get a feel for the duration of your uber stand in front of people you're ubering. The bullets will still slow them down so if you soak them up it allows your partner to do their thing.

-Stay vigilant. You're in a good position to watch for spies and flanks. Use that.

-Voice chat will help a lot with coordination.

-Once you get an ubersaw learn to uberchain with another medic. It's hilarious.

Do these things and even if you're not the best medic you'll be a good medic.

[Dr.Epic]

Cool. Thanks for all the tips everyone. I was actually thinking of playing a soldier or heavy for my first time before creating this thread. They seem like pretty straight forward classes.


For your amusement: The Team Fortress 2 Theme Song! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbaGodU_Gkw)

Tee-hee! That's awesome!:smallbiggrin:

[dgnslyr]

Play a soldier, it's a very forgiving class. Hop and shoot, and aim around your enemies' feet, so you'll probably hit something. The jump gives you a better angle, so you can shoot downwards better. Better yet, find a high spot, and shoot down. The idea is, you aim at the floor instead of at people, so the rockets will still explode, even if you miss the person, and the splash will do work.

[Mando Knight]

Also, if anyone tries to get in your face, figure out when it's a good time to switch to your shotgun or your shovel... they have fairly good stopping power and don't carry the risk of blowing yourself up. Plus, it's good practice for the other classes, since five of the nine classes use some kind of shotgun (the Scout being the only one of them that doesn't use the normal shotty), and everyone has roughly the same melee reach (except those using swords).

[super dark33]

Cool. Thanks for all the tips everyone. I was actually thinking of playing a soldier or heavy for my first time before creating this thread. They seem like pretty straight forward classes.



Tee-hee! That's awesome!:smallbiggrin:

Protip: NONE of the classes are straight forward.

play them the way you think they are not meant to be played.

[polity4life]

I asked the same question to some friends of mine who have been playing for years.

They all said play medic first for two reasons. First, everyone likes to have a medic on the team. Second, it gives you the opportunity to observe what the other classes are supposed to do and how to do it. Sure, play styles will change with different loadouts, but the core of the class should remain the same.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Soldier, heavy, and medic are the best to start as. Medic is easy. Just follow the soldier, heavy, or demo that is the highest scoring and keep them alive. Be sure you heal other guys near you. They probably know the map well. Also with the uber, pop it don't drop it. If you are taking heavy fire just blow it early so you don't die with it.

If you want to play engineer, avoid a few traps. It it is a 5 point map or you are attacking on an attack/defend map, then your tele is the most important thing. If you are defending, your gun is normally most important. Make sure your gun can see the objective. Also be mindful of enemies who can simply out range your gun. If they can shoot it from out of range, it's likely a very bad spot.
You might be tempted to build your SG at spawn since there is metal near by in the resupply, but that is a trap. The whole time you are at your spawn, you are not contributing to the fight so they are a man down.
Build your SG near the active objective. Just use the metal spawns near the objective for those upgrades. A level 2's guns are just as powerful as a level 3 and a level 1 can be surprisingly effective.

[Mando Knight]

It really depends on the team for the Engineer. On Offense, the teleporter is almost always the most critical. On Defense, the Dispenser is almost as critical as the Sentry Gun... with a good team and few Medics, it's more so.

In general, since the Dispenser also churns out Metal for the Engineer (at 40 every 5 seconds for a Level 1, and starting with 25 Metal in reserve), you get back the Metal you expend on it 10 seconds after construction (with profit!), so building it before your Sentry is usually advised, especially in a low-Metal area. In addition, your nest also has just become a much more attractive place for your pals to hang out because they get free ammo and health.

In general, I'd focus on building all of the buildings, then upgrading them to Level 2 in the order of Teleporter>Sentry>Dispenser (unless your team has a close respawn, where the tele takes last priority), then Level 3 in the order of Sentry>Dispenser>Teleporter. The reason the Teleporter is high priority for level 2 but low priority for Level 3 is that the recharge time jumps from 10 seconds to 5 for Level 2, but only down to 3 for Level 3. The 2-second difference on the teleport recharge is generally worth less than the boost in firepower that a level 3 Sentry can provide (or support, in the case of the Dispenser). It's also usually the last building enemies attack (because it's more easily sequestered in a safe location), so the health boost is needed less. Upgrading the Dispenser usually takes lower priority than the Sentry because it takes longer for an upgraded Dispenser to provide the Engineer with profit for its upgrades, if you're just going for the Metal (100 secs for each level upgraded).

The Combat Mini-Sentry is less of a threat and more of an annoyance. Unlike other buildings, it starts at full health from the moment you put it down, and it builds faster than any other building, but it isn't a major threat by itself. That said, the Mini-Sentry can get a disproportionate amount of kills and assists by being placed in the right spot: because it isn't much of a threat by itself, it's often the last priority for an enemy. The extra 48 DPS isn't much, but it'll finish off a weakened enemy or turn the tide in a mirror match fairly easily.

[Kurgan]

First off, welcome to TF2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y009oQEa8d8)!

People covered pretty much all of what I was going to say. On the "no direct upgrades" with weapons, there are a few exceptions.

All of Medic's melee weapons are an improvement - Amputator gives you a taunt that heals allies, plus is part of a set that gives you improved self healing, Ubersaw fills your uber meter by 25% every time you hit someone with it, Solemn Vow lets you see the opposing team's hp, so you can direct the fight if you have a mic.

Pyro also has some nice melee weapons that are better than the axe, my favorite being the Homewrecker, as it destroys sappers, making you an Engineer's best friend. Axetinguisher is also popular, as it does extra damage to enemies on fire, and lo and behold, you are a close range class that sets people on fire!

Also: Do not buy weapons from the Mann Co. Store - it is a trap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA)! You get plenty of item drops a week just by playing, so you will eventually get all of them anyways. Also, store goods are not craftable, so you cannot even nuke the items at a later date.

Lastly: know the objective. Some people will play the game like a deathmatch, completely forgetting that there is a goal.

Above all else, have fun!

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Axtiguisher is a great replacement for the fire axe. Then add the fast weapon swap of the degreaser and you have a very powerful combo that kills unbuffed soldiers (with burn damage).

[Mando Knight]

Lastly: know the objective. Some people will play the game like a deathmatch, completely forgetting that there is a goal.
This happens a lot on maps where the defender is totally entrenched... i.e. Dustbowl on a full-ish server.

Or on CTF.

[Squark]

This happens a lot on maps where the defender is totally entrenched... i.e. Dustbowl on a full-ish server.

Or on CTF.

Yeah, 2fort tends to devolve into two teams rushing each others base and just trying to get as many kills in as possible before the sentries cut them to pieces.

[Kurgan]

Yeah, 2fort tends to devolve into two teams rushing each others base and just trying to get as many kills in as possible before the sentries cut them to pieces.

It has been a long time since I have seen 2fort played seriously. On most of the servers I frequent, when 2fort comes up, it is used as an excuse to just goof around for 30 minutes. Pyroshark duels in the pool, snipers running around above dueling with soldiers who think they are snipers, spycrabs and peace heavies meeting on the bridge and complaining should they die...

On a serious round of 2fort, you need a way to break through like 3-5 sentries. CTF maps can be fun, or they can turn into a massive stalemate.

[Tvtyrant]

Engineer Advice: This is my advice on playing an engineer, since it can take a while to really figure out. Some people might disagree with me on how an engineer should be played, but I think my advice is pretty sound.
There are three types of Engineer in my experience (about 800 hours of engineer so far). Defensive big turret, offensive courier, and mini turret.

Defensive big turret:

The point of a big turret defense is to block off access points and funnel the enemy into kill zones. This bears some clarification, because this doesn't mean you can't block a point or intelligence with one.

What it means is that a sentry is actually pretty fragile, and if you put it right on top of a point either it will be destroyed or it won't see any action. An ubered anything can bring down a sentry, a spy (especially with the new sapper) can bring one down, and a few explosive members working together can bring it down (2 demos are brutal).

While you can sit there and keep it at full health (sometimes you can keep it alive through an ubered heavy attack), you will only come into play when there is an attack that penetrates the rest of your team. On many maps this means you spend 90% of your time sitting there not doing anything, which makes you into a waste of a player slot.

Anytime you are playing on a map where the enemy is not constantly inside your base (so most of the time), you should instead look for commonly used access points and block them off. The optimal positioning is one where the open space is exactly as long as your sentries reach, but this only rarely happens. The opposing team will be putting you under constant pressure, but this pressure is to your teams benefit. You as a single player are holding up multiple opponents at a time as well as making your teams flanks more secure.

Offensive courier:

Your team is on offense, or it is a capture point map, and the entrance of your base is far from the relevant battleground. This is your time to shine!

The goal of the offensive courier is to get your teammates as close to the relevant front as possible without placing your forward teleport base in an easily destructible position. The less your teleporters are interfered with, the more efficient the forward movement of your allies.

In my experience the best places are ones where you can cover the room with the teleporter in it with a single sentry and not have any blindspots. This still leaves you somewhat vunerable to spies, but that is why you as the player are going to stay there.

The reason it is more acceptable to stay in a none-combat zone as a courier than as a defender is that the efficient forward movement of allies is more important than anything you could do as a single player. This is especially true on large maps, where your base may be a minute or more away from the cart or capture point. That minute becomes a second each time you teleport them to the front, meaning that you can accomplish several times your own game time in off time saved.

Mini Turret:

The mini turret engineer is a rather flexible class. Usually it is used to quickly drop turrets around an oncoming group of enemies to scatter them. Generally speaking a mini turret engineer uses the mini turret combined with their own shotgun to act as two characters at the same time. If the enemy is trying to capture a point the mini turret engineer drops a turret so it covers the point and then charges in, shotgun blaring, to drive the enemy off the point.

Alternatively the mini turret engineer can be used with the Wrangler to create a pseudo-sniper. This can be effective, but real snipers can generally destroy you in a fight and spies are an omnipresent threat due to your stationary nature. Best used at one end of a long hallway, the pseudo-sniper can ditch the first mini sentry if they are feeling overwhelmed and fall back to drop one around the corner as cover.

[Hiro Protagonest]

It has been a long time since I have seen 2fort played seriously. On most of the servers I frequent, when 2fort comes up, it is used as an excuse to just goof around for 30 minutes. Pyroshark duels in the pool, snipers running around above dueling with soldiers who think they are snipers, spycrabs and peace heavies meeting on the bridge and complaining should they die...

Equip the Direct Hit, and you too can pretend to be a sniper slightly more effectively than before!

[Teln]

Having recently returned to TF2 after a two year break and gotten a Chargin' Targe, I have to ask: What is the community's opinion of the "Demoknight" build?

[Arbane]

Having recently returned to TF2 after a two year break and gotten a Chargin' Targe, I have to ask: What is the community's opinion of the "Demoknight" build?

I'm no good with them, but I've seen them be very effective.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Having recently returned to TF2 after a two year break and gotten a Chargin' Targe, I have to ask: What is the community's opinion of the "Demoknight" build?

It's for offense. Good for getting past enemy lines during Capture the Flag, terrible for Mann vs Machine. Probably better to stick with regular Demo if it's "deliver the payload", since you don't have to get past the enemies in that, just hold them down long enough for the others to push the bomb (or you can help push the bomb, looking around and firing grenades at enemy Heavies, Pyros, and Soldiers).

And this is also why TF2 is such a good game. "Why would a Demoman have a sword and spiked shield?" you ask. Well normally, he wouldn't. But this ain't no ordinary Demoman, lad! This is a highlander!

Also, if you want to learn what's good for MvM, go watch the trailer for it. It has the go-to MvM team. Heavy, Soldier, and Demoman are the frontliners, taking down the robots as they appear. Scout runs around really fast, picking up the money dropped by dead robots so that you can buy upgrades, and also dropping a few hits on the robots. Medic heals the four of them. And Engineer puts his dispenser close by to those guys, then gets up on a rooftop or something and builds a level 3 sentry, then he either sits on the sentry and fires his shotgun at long range, or runs around near the dispenser to protect that and get hits at a closer range. For the other classes... Sniper can take a role like the Engineer's Sentry. Stand on a rooftop from long range and fire at will. Not that great, but good enough. Pyro is a frontliners. Spy can backstab robo-heavies and robo-snipers, and he can just use his revolver otherwise.

[Dumbledore lives]

Having recently returned to TF2 after a two year break and gotten a Chargin' Targe, I have to ask: What is the community's opinion of the "Demoknight" build?

They are not too well liked, especially by the competitive community. Partially this is due to a wealth of upgrades for the knight, and relatively few for the actual demoman. The knight gives up his most powerful weapon, both on offense and defense, for added maneuverability. You will probably contribute less to your team overall, giving up aerial control for close range deadliness, when many classes have ways to push you away from close range, ie rocekts or the airblast.

In short, I don't like it too much, and it is useful in only specific circumstances, and not even that great then. From what I've heard it's pretty great in MvM though.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Having recently returned to TF2 after a two year break and gotten a Chargin' Targe, I have to ask: What is the community's opinion of the "Demoknight" build?

Unless you're amazingly good at it, you're going to be contributing less that a normal Demoman (and, in fact, the same amount of skill would probably be better served as a normal Demoman).

On the plus side, it's fun, and that's what really matters. :smallbiggrin:

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Demoknight is very powerful in MvM. A half zatochi demo knight will be a killing machine once upgraded. 6 seconds of crits that can 1 shot any non-giant bot and gets full hp on every kill. Alternately there is the eyelander that can get more base hp and speed after a few heads.