Do I get improved evasion if I already have evasion?

[DarkEternal]

Well, the title says it all. One of the players in my group is playing a swordsage. He took two levels in monk I think, which gave him evasion. As a swordsage on level 9, he again gets evasion. Does it immediatelly turn into Improved evasion, like Uncanny dodge turns into Imp. Uncanny Dodge? It's not written anywhere, not under swordsage's evasion, nor under rogue's evasion, so I wonder. Especially considering a swordsage does get Imp. Evasion on level 17 I think.

[Psyren]

If it doesn't explicitly say so, then it doesn't, but it would be an okay houserule.

[Kaje]

Officially, no. Everyone should houserule otherwise though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

RAW, no. He could trade one away for spell-reflection though. It's an ACF in complete mage. If you do some looking around, you could find other things to trade the redundant evasion for.

That said, there's no reason not to housrule it as combining to make improved evasion, other than having to come up with another houserule when he actually gets improved evasion.

[DarkEternal]

RAW, no. He could trade one away for spell-reflection though. It's an ACF in complete mage. If you do some looking around, you could find other things to trade the redundant evasion for.

That said, there's no reason not to housrule it as combining to make improved evasion, other than having to come up with another houserule when he actually gets improved evasion.

Yeah, that was my problem, too. He asked if he could have dodge at level 9 then, which is a fair trade in my opinion. Why did he ask for that feat? So he could qualify for Master of Nine later on and take a feat to his liking instead of sodding dodge.

[Psyren]

Yeah, that was my problem, too. He asked if he could have dodge at level 9 then, which is a fair trade in my opinion. Why did he ask for that feat? So he could qualify for Master of Nine later on and take a feat to his liking instead of sodding dodge.

Well, you could always use Desert Wind Dodge instead... It's not great but it seems slightly better.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Yeah, that was my problem, too. He asked if he could have dodge at level 9 then, which is a fair trade in my opinion. Why did he ask for that feat? So he could qualify for Master of Nine later on and take a feat to his liking instead of sodding dodge.

Dodge isn't much by itself, but it actually becomes kinda neat with the right feats, elusive target being a noteable one.

[nedz]

RAW: no, He could have traded the Monk's evasion for an ACF, but I'm not aware of any ACFs for Swordsage.

It does seem a perfectly reasonable house-rule though to either allow one of the ACFs or Improved Evasion.

The ACFs available (to Monk) are

Feign Death (EoE)
Invisible Fist (EoE) turn invisible, gain blink at 9th level
Spell Reflection (CM, p 35)


Also you might want to consider Expeditious Dodge from RotW.
+2 AC when you move 40', counts as Dodge for other feats, PrCs, etc.

[navar100]

House rule allowing it sounds unfair to the single class rogue who has to spend a level 10+ talent for it, especially when you consider rogue 2/monk 2 now gets Improved Evasion at level 4.

[Mirakk]

House rule allowing it sounds unfair to the single class rogue who has to spend a level 10+ talent for it, especially when you consider rogue 2/monk 2 now gets Improved Evasion at level 4.

This.

Unfortunately, it's unbalancing to allow that as a house-rule in most cases. At least in my opinion. Several prestige classes allow it, because they understand that you'll be higher level. That's an important clue, I think.

[Mithril Leaf]

On the other hand, if you've got swordsages and such, there's likely not a ton of single classed rogues. It should be fine if everyone is of an optimization level that it's not an issue.

[ericgrau]

It's not a good house rule to allow improved evasion at level 4 with a couple of quick dips (or worse, a magic item and a dip). Combining 2 classes to get it at level 9-10 (or higher for classes that get it late) wouldn't be a bad houserule though.

[Incorrect]

Yeah, that was my problem, too. He asked if he could have dodge at level 9 then, which is a fair trade in my opinion. Why did he ask for that feat? So he could qualify for Master of Nine later on and take a feat to his liking instead of sodding dodge.

This should be fine I think.
Mo9 has quite high requirements for its benefits anyway.

[Rejakor]

Mo9 is a crappy class.

Improved Evasion is really not that much better than regular evasion, given the usual Ref score of evasioners, and the usual saving throw DC of blaster mages.

[DarkEternal]

Yeah, I think I'll go with Dodge then. I know it's not an optimal prestige class, but fluff wise, the guy wants to play Mo9, and I don't see why not. We have a knight in our party, so really, optimisation is not key.

[nedz]

Most Characters with evasion expect to avoid taking any damage from an AoE.

Improved Evasion is just a consolation prize for when they roll low.

[bean illus]

Trade the evasion for Spell reflection. It rocks.

Also, I agree that giving IE at 4th is an insult to the Rogue getting it at 9th.

[marphod]

Trade the evasion for Spell reflection. It rocks.

Wut?

Are we reading the same ability?


If an enemy misses with a spell or spell-like ability aimed at you, you can use an immediate action to redirect the effect back at its originator/ (emphasis mine)

Even low BAB classes will hit on average with their first attack roll. Especially if it is a touch attack. Unless you have additional abilities that make missing more likely (incorporeal, displacement, concealment), missing isn't going to be a common occurrence. It also uses an immediate action, which means no Swift action on your turn.

Which, if you have swordsage levels, you're going to want for other things.

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Take the Invisibility option. It is by far the best of those 3 Evasion replacements.

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If the character is swordsage, you want Desert Dodge (Bo9S) over Dodge or Expeditious Dodge.

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The Master of Nine is a crappy class? 8 Maneuvers and 2 stances over 5 levels. Full IL progression. +2 to attack and +9 to damage with every strike maneuver.

Dual Stance is hamstrung, it has medium BAB and only 1 good save (although it is Will), and the class abilities are not stellar. But look at the previous paragraph again. Without Bloodline shenanigans, it is also the only way (I know of) to get more than 4 of the 9th level maneuvers.

[Haruki-kun]

The Winged Mod: Thread Necromancy.