I need advice as my DM nerfed me. [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

View Full Version : I need advice as my DM nerfed me.

Lothalis

2012-09-25, 03:51 PM

One of my friends is planning a epic level adventure into Hell.

The rest of the party is:
Barbarian 20/ Frenzied Berserker 10
Wizard 10/ Sorcerer 10/ Ultimate Magus 10
Favored Soul 20/ (Something)
*Some Fay Race* Bard 17/ Favored Soul *
Level 20 Dread Necromancer/ (Something)
and a lvl 30 Monk

I have been told to play the skill monkey in this mess.

Normally this would not be an issue but here are my restrictions:

No Factotum:smallfrown:
No Stances or Maneuvers (So Swordsage is out):smallfurious:
No Greyhawk Only:smallannoyed:
My "Primary focus" must be a minimum of level 17 (so no Rogue 2 Wizard 18 so don't tell me to do stuff like that) The Wizard/Sorcerer was deemed to fit the criteria because both were considered his "Primary focus" as he was asked to be the Arcane Caster.:smallconfused:
Level 30:smallcool:

So the classes in which I need to pull from are Rogue, CA Ninja, Spell Thief Bard and Scout. Beguiler is a caster (apparently:smallconfused:) and no Psionics.

I feel like I am being punished, but regardless I am nothing if not agreeable and an adaptable player.

We are allowed to use Dragon Magazine so I was going to go Ninja and use the Ninja Feats presented in Issue 351 such as Karmic Healing and taking feats such as Darkstalker to overcome the whole "I know you are invisible, I can still see you" issue, and really use my Ki to power other abilities like the Jutsu found in Dragon magazine 342.

At the end of the day I have a Ninja 20/ (something) and am looking for advice in this situation. I was thinking Fighter for the feats and taking Martial Striker from Complete Scoundrel so the levels overlap, but I think there is a better way.

I will be playing a ranged attacker due to the fact I am squishy, so again the fighter feats come in handy.

Any advice other than helping me fill out my character's last will and testament would be greatly appreciated.

Siosilvar

2012-09-25, 03:56 PM

The only advice I have is to find a group that doesn't insist on requiring the traditional four roles in a seven-man party. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but that's just a silly requirement.

ZeroNumerous

2012-09-25, 03:58 PM

If you want ranged skill-monkey then you're gonna wanna look at Scout 3/Ranger 17/Whatever archery PrCs you want 10. Full BAB, Skill Monkey requirements come from Scout(IIRC trapfinding and the like), and Skirmish damage for extra d6s on your shots. Just pile on the archery feats, max out your search/hide/MS, pick up Darkstalker and look into a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis for Hide in Plain Sight.

Pertaining to the feeling of being punished: You should really talk to your DM about that, and air your grievances in a calm and rational manner.

Gnaeus

2012-09-25, 04:01 PM

It is a silly requirement. But:

How about Ranger? They have just as many skill points as Scout or ninja or bard. Then build can be something like: Scout 4, Wildshape Ranger 13, MoMF 10, Warshaper 3. with Swift Hunter.

Ninjas!

lunar2

2012-09-25, 04:10 PM

@ranger. pick up the dungeonscape ACF that gives you trapfinding. then you don't even need a trapfinder class, which would free up a few levels to work with.

The Glyphstone

2012-09-25, 04:15 PM

Can you get away with Arcane Trickster counting as 'Skillmonkey' levels? Rogue 7/Wizard 13/Arcane Trickster 10 would then have 17 Skillmonkey levels, and you'd still be a 23rd level caster (which would ironically make your skill checks even higher, because of all the ways magic can be used to boost them).

Urpriest

2012-09-25, 04:41 PM

Yeah, if your DM's running epic he should be aware that at epic levels spellcasting is the primary way skillmonkeying is done. Remind him of this and he will allow you to play a caster.

Gavinfoxx

2012-09-25, 04:46 PM

"Let me get this straight. I'm supposed to be a skill-monkey, in a party with lots of casters, in an EPIC game where it is 'be magical or go home', and all of the good skill monkey classes -- swordsage, psychic rogue, factotum, beguiler, bard, and so on -- I can't use? Do you have something against competent skillmonkeys?"

Maybe Binder + Online vestiges?

How about Savant, from Dragon Compendium??

Also, I don't remember how many of these work with Wildshape Ranger, but look into Skilled City Dweller, Trap Expert, Solitary Hunting, and Champion of the Wild. And pick up Favored Enemy Arcanists and favored enemy evil and Nemesis.

Seerow

2012-09-25, 04:50 PM

Why is the Bard not able to fill the skill monkey role?

Gavinfoxx

2012-09-25, 04:53 PM

Oh wait, you can use Bard?

Use Bard!

Boci

2012-09-25, 04:57 PM

Another player is already a bard, and this group doesn't sound like one that would let two players be of the same class.

Anxe

2012-09-25, 04:57 PM

Max out your sneak attack?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111626
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4216.0

From google.

HunterOfJello

2012-09-25, 05:03 PM

Binders are skillmonkeys too. Binder 5/Knight of the Sacred Seal 5/(Spellcaster of Choice) 10/Anima Mage 10 would be great. It counts as a level 20 Binder with 4 vestiges at a time and a level 20 Spellcaster of your choice.

Use your Vestige Metamagics in order to cast skill improving spells. That completely solidifies you as having 20 levels of skillmonkey levels.

Dusk Eclipse

2012-09-25, 05:05 PM

I second the Swift Hunter route (check the Scout's errata, it adds disable device to it's skill list); but go Mystic Ranger (Dragon 318 IIRC) which gives you up to level 5 spells at the cost of your AC (which is worhless in any case, get Wild Cohort if you want a pet) and delaying your other class features. If you can ask for the Sword of the Arcane Order feat which leta you prepare amd cast wizard spells from your Ranger slots. I think you could even drop some Epic feats in improved spell capacity to increase your spell levels.

Wildshape Ranger (variant in UA) is also something to consider as they probide lots of utility and some decent combat forms (Fleshraker is a pretty neat one).

Randomguy

2012-09-25, 05:09 PM

Are you allowed to be a skillgish? Something with unseen seer and daggerspell mage, maybe? You would still have more rogue levels than wizard levels.

You could try something swift hunter ish.

The best race is probably Marrulurk, if permitted, and if it fits within the setting.

If all else fails: Ninja 20/Urpriest 10 and you get enough casting to compete. Or maybe even Spellthief 20/Urpriest 10, since then your caster level would be better. You've got 10 free levels, so urpriest is the fast lane on the highway from useless to tier 1.
And since Bard counts a skillmonkey for your purposes, you could do Bard 20/Sublime Chord 10 as well. (Or take a caster prestige class or something).
Either way, you're the "skillmonkey" that your DM wants with enough casting to not suck, and you follow all his guidelines to the letter.

A 2 level dip in paladin (of freedom for Sublime Chord or of Tyranny for Urpriest) would boost your saving throws (the serenity feat might help for urpriest) would really boost your saves, which would be pretty useful, and still permitted under the guidelines the DM gave since you've got 17 skill monkey levels. .

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2012-09-25, 05:16 PM

Anyone with Able Learner should be able consider any base 4+ skill points/level class to be 'primary' for a skillmonkey.

With a can't-be-a-caster skillmonkey, you don't have a lot of options. With Greyhawk-only you can't go with a Shadow Pounce build, with no psionics you can't use Psychic Rogue/Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723a) for Mind Cripple. At this level of play you'll very rarely encounter an opponent who will even be affected by sneak attack anyway, so don't even bother with that.

I'd start with a Fighter Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue), and focus on archery and not being seen. Use the Dark Creature template if you can buy off the LA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), otherwise get a Greater Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis. Using some sort of means of remote viewing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#sense) (nonpsionic version in MIC) and Distant Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#distantShot) you'll often have only the curvature of the planet blocking your shots.

It's a high epic game, so you need to have 9th level spells from somewhere. Ur-Priest into Prestige Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeRanger) would actually be perfect, you'll need to gain the Animal domain (Contemplative dip) to qualify, but it should be considered primary for a skillmonkey. Access to the Cleric list via Ur-Priest plus Ranger-exclusive spells with DMM: Persist and a pile of Night Sticks will make for a superb archer. Standard Cleric Archer principles apply here, plus many of the Archivist Archer tricks which are specific to Ranger spells, there are plenty of handbooks on the subject.

Alienist

2012-09-25, 05:24 PM

Cleric makes by far the best skill monkey.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a

Medic!

2012-09-25, 05:27 PM

I could be way off base here (I'm really good at being way off base) but spellthief sounds awesome for this adventure. Stealing/supressing abilities of all the denizens of hell, borrowing spells from your caster buddies, etc

Diovid

2012-09-25, 05:32 PM

Cleric makes by far the best skill monkey.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a
Indeed: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

ericgrau

2012-09-25, 05:32 PM

Is the true skillmonkey useful in his setting?
Y: Look into the various +30 skill epic items. Look at the epic skill rules. Try to get hide in plain sight, track (and survival as a class skill), and an obscene spot check.
N: See if you're allowed to play a different type instead.

Gavinfoxx

2012-09-25, 05:37 PM

Yea, Cleric can be good as a skillmonkey...

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=292794

If that is what a low level cloistered cleric can do, than consider what an epic cloistered cleric can do... "Oh, I have +50 to any skill I want..."

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2012-09-25, 05:38 PM

Skillmonkey: My extensive knowledge of the locals and my ability to gather information, eavesdrop, and manipulate people to get leads, plus my grand skill at tracking, should allow us to find our target.
Spellcaster: My divination spell has already told me who he is and where to find him.
Skillmonkey: Well, my extensive knowledge of the local terrain and my ability to scout the wilderness can cut two days off of our journey!
Spellcaster: Shut up and step onto my teleportation circle.

One Step Two

2012-09-25, 06:32 PM

Okay, I don't have all my books on me, so lets talk about a supreme skillmonkey
This isn't totally perfect optimisation, but it's a skillmonkey that has great power, and should be able to satisfy your GM. The main focus of your argument is your skills, and things to augment the hell out of it (while sneaking in some powerful class features)

Rogue 2/Bard 8/Sublime Chord 10/Bard 10

Pick up the Track feat, Swap out Bardic Lore with Bardic Knack from PHB2 ACF, you can now make any Skill checks equal to 1/2 your bard level on skills that can be used untrained, and because subline chord progressed bardic lore, the thing you bring to your GM is that it then progresses Bardic Knack in your place. So anything you don't dedicate skill points to you can attempt a check at 14+modified+roll. Take the Feat Jack of All Trades from complete Adventurer, congratulations, you can now make every single skill check in the game at 14.5+mod+roll. Professions, craft's knowledges, everything except Speak language. Sprinkle on Knowledge devotion for a little more edge.

You have 9th level spells, and the ability to access epic spellcasting, you have 18 levels of bard, sublime chord augments bard as well, and the 2 levels of rogue is mostly for evasion, if you can get away with 1 level at the very least for trap finding you'll be golden. And if you want to avoid crossing spheres with the other bard, if they are a buffer, you can manage with alternate musical features, like replace counter song with Mimicking song from Dungeonscape, combine with dark stalker, and be unfindable with an unnammed +10 bonus to move silently checks.

For more skills grab Nymphs kiss from Book of Exalted Deeds.

I recommend Human as a race, because humans are neat.
Illumian with Krau and either Naen or Vaul sigils are good choices here.
Edit: If you can LA buyoff, Grabbing Assimar, or add the Draconic Creature template for more CHA synergies can do you greater favours if limited in your point buy.

Feel free to look up how neat bards can be here. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870498/The_Bards_Handbook) And remember, you're talking up the skillmonkey side of things, good luck!

nedz

2012-09-25, 06:55 PM

I note that your party is lacking a Druid.
Also check the Elf or Half-Elf box

So something like:
Ranger 8/Druid 3/Seeker of the Misty Isle 9/Druid +10
Scout 8/Spirit Shaman 3/Seeker of the Misty Isle 9/Spirit Shaman+10
Gets you 21 levels of spell casting and 17 levels of Ranger or Scout (with SotMI) for your 'focus'.

Or replace the last 10 levels with some PrC.
There aren't many good cleric/skill monkey ones
Lion of Talisid (which requires an AC) might work.

Scout 3/Ranger 5 can be used for a Swift Hunter stem, but I'm not sure its worth the feats.

Alabenson

2012-09-25, 07:08 PM

Play a Wizard 30 with Epic Spellcasting and a fully optimized Spellcraft modifier.
Who needs skills when you have chain-Gated Solars helping you rewrite reality?

TypoNinja

2012-09-25, 07:08 PM

No Greyhawk Only:smallannoyed:

Wait, I'm confused, there's greyhawk specific stuff? I thought it was just the base PHB.

Urpriest

2012-09-25, 07:17 PM

Wait, I'm confused, there's greyhawk specific stuff? I thought it was just the base PHB.

There's a bit in Gazetteer's and stuff, especially with Dragon content included. Plus, presumably stuff like Wee Jas is banned.

nedz

2012-09-25, 07:18 PM

Wait, I'm confused, there's greyhawk specific stuff? I thought it was just the base PHB.

It exists, but its quite rare and exotic

Take
Knight of Holy Shielding
Guards the Grayhawk region called the Shield Lands (DU113 p95)
And a bunch of Grayhawk regional feats from various Dragon Magazines

Ed: and the default pantheon presumably ?

eggs

2012-09-25, 07:47 PM

It's level 30. Even the ranger's casting epic spells. Missing out on Child of Shadow or whatever isn't a huge deal.

ericgrau

2012-09-25, 08:16 PM

Ya but on a budget of millions of gp and >20 skill ranks all you have to do is UMD a staff and you have 9s from as many different classes as you want.

Malroth

2012-09-25, 08:34 PM

Rogue2 with Able Learner, Wildshape Ranger 5, Master of Many Forms 10, Warshaper 5, Rogue 8. You can be be a Literal Skill monkey.

Spuddles

2012-09-25, 08:40 PM

Swift hunter/mystic ranger build, with sword of the arcane order would be pretty solid. Swift hunter will let you get skirmish damage on your favored enemies, despite type-based immunities.

Curmudgeon

2012-09-25, 08:48 PM

For a ranged attacker at Epic levels, you need to solve the following problems:

bypass Wind Wall, which is low level and shuts down most ranged attacks;
get significant impact beyond 30' (the limit for most precision damage); and
don't get killed!

(A giant-thrown boulder, a siege engine projectile, and other massive ranged weapons are not affected.) The minimum size for a siege engine projectile is a bolt from a ballista, "essentially a Huge heavy crossbow fixed in place." That's the same size projectile as a bolt from a great crossbow of Large size (Races of Stone, pages 153-155). If you can effectively use a Large great crossbow you'll be set against Wind Wall.

Powerful Build lets you use weapons designed for creatures one size larger, but there are a limited set of options for that. The best way to achieve actual Large size is probably the Half-Minotaur inherited template (Dragon # 313, pages 94-95). Start with a Medium size race (like a Lesser Dust Para-Genasi: see Player's Guide to Faerûn on page 191 and Dragon # 297, pages 62-66) and you'll be increased to Large; the LA +1 cost can be bought off for only 3,000 XP at class level 3.

Getting decent damage beyond 30' has a bunch of different solutions depending on conditions. You can pursue most (or even all) of them. (1) The Crossbow Sniper feat (Player's Handbook II, pages 77-78) is the most straightforward if your DM extends it to all types of crossbows. This feat also follows the needlessly restrictive pattern for most crossbow feats set by Rapid Reload:
Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, or heavy). Crossbow Sniper extends sneak attack/skirmish distance to 60', and adds ½ DEX mod as an additional bonus. If your DM doesn't ease the Crossbow Sniper requirements then you'll need a character that's Large and has Powerful Build to wield a Huge heavy crossbow. :smallmad: (2) The Telling Blow feat enables sneak attack/skirmish damage on any critical hit, regardless of distance, concealment, or prior movement (normally required for skirmish). The normal threat range of a great crossbow is good at 18-20, and with keen bolts you'll be at 15-20. So that's a statistical boost to damage which operates when you've got conditions like concealment or range that you can't (or don't have time to) overcome and you're just going to attack anyway. As an Epic character you can benefit from Uncanny Accuracy [Epic] (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#uncannyAccuracy) to ignore any target's cover/concealment less than total to hit them, but that feat doesn't enable sneak attack/skirmish damage. (3) I know your DM prefers you to be non-magical, but Use Magic Device, a wand chamber in your crossbow, and a wand of Sniper's Shot (Spell Compendium, page 194) will enable all your attacks in the round to qualify for sneak attack damage (but not skirmish) regardless of range. (4) The Knowledge Devotion feat (Complete Champion, pages 60-61) is great for a Rogue, because you can easily get enough skill bonus to guarantee +5 to hit and damage everything in D&D. With the Rogue special ability Skill Mastery you can guarantee what your check result is by "taking 10" instead of rolling for mastered skills, so master the 6 Knowledge skills related to D&D creature types and you'll be in good shape. Boosting your damage with KD is good, but boosting your chance to hit is really important, because you're limited in AB (3/4 BAB through level 20, then ½ AB/level Epic). AC can get pretty high with an Epic budget, so gaining a competitive advantage here is crucial. But the damage from any non-dice quantities will get multiplied on a critical hit. For sneak attackers Craven is key (+15 per sneak attack at level 30) and that, STR bonus, Knowledge Devotion bonus, and numerical weapon enhancements will all get multiplied on critical hits. (5) You can load up on precision damage with the right choice of classes and multiclassing feats. Scout 3 plus a lot of Rogue levels, with Swift Ambusher (Complete Scoundrel, page 81), will let you deal sneak attack and skirmish if you enable both. Scouts qualify for skirmish damage if they move just 10', and a character trained with a Sparring Dummy of the Master (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 137) can take a 10' step in place of a 5' step. You can probably convince your DM to allow training if you have a +20 Use Magic Device modifier and make 224 DC 21 checks to Emulate a Class Feature (1 per hour while training); if not, take a 2-level dip into Monk and pick a useful ACF for the redundant evasion ability. (With Scout 3 and Monk 2, plus Rogue as favored class, you can avoid multiclassing XP penalties.) (6) You can easily afford the equipment you need with an Epic budget; you don't even need to get into Epic prices. A great crossbow with both quick loading (Magic Item Compendium, pages 41-42; +1 enhancement cost) and self-loading enhancement (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 116; +10,000 gp derived cost) enhancements will automatically feed in a new bolt and draw back the string with each shot. Then add splitting (Champions of Ruin, page 42) to double the bolts you fire at each target (limited to full attacks with the Rules Compendium volley attack rule on page 42). You can have a +5 keen, quick loading, self-loading, splitting great crossbow and still pay non-Epic equipment prices. (7) Rogue abilities can help out with dealing effective damage. Crippling Strike deals STR damage on a sneak attack, and the Savvy Rogue feat (Complete Scoundrel, pages 80-81) boosts all your Rogue special abilities. With Savvy Rogue and Skill Mastery you "take 12" on mastered skills, and with Crippling Strike you still deal STR damage even against targets immune to sneak attack.

To avoid getting killed your best strategem as a non-spellcaster is to avoid getting targeted. That makes all direct weapon attacks and all targeted spells simply not apply to you. (You've already got evasion and a good Reflex save if you're a Rogue, so you also avoid most area attacks.) Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight and Darkstalker (Lords of Madness, page 179) will let you Hide essentially all the time. (You'll stop making Hide checks if you're asleep, but since a level 1 wand of Ray of Resurgence will alleviate fatigue there's no reason that you would need to sleep, ever.) So dipping into Assassin (7 levels required) or Shadowdancer (1) for HiPS is a really good idea. Being unseen will enable sneak attack against many enemies, too. Note that getting up to a +30 competence bonus to a skill has a non-Epic cost, so you should certainly get a +30 boost to Hide in a semi-custom item.

You might want to look into Rogue 19/Scout 3/Monk 2/Nightsong Enforcer 4/Shadowdancer 2. That's total levels, not the order; you'd want the 4 levels of Nightsong Enforcer in the first 20 levels to get your BAB up to +16 and get your 4th iterative attack, because only BAB and not Epic AB determines the number of attacks in a full attack. This will also require a bunch of ACFs to avoid wasted duplicate abilities. I suggest looking into the following (and others):

Rogue: Lightbringer Penetrating Strike (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208)
Rogue: Uncanny Bravery (Dragon Magic, page 14)
Rogue: Poison Use (Drow of the Underdark, page 58)
Monk: Invisible Fist (Exemplars of Evil, page 21)
Scout: Disruptive Attack (Player's Handbook II, page 57)

Mirakk

2012-09-25, 08:51 PM

Play a Wizard 30 with Epic Spellcasting and a fully optimized Spellcraft modifier.
Who needs skills when you have chain-Gated Solars helping you rewrite reality?

This!

Seriously, no factotum? What's this DM's deal? You should stick it to him as hard as possible, showing him that arbitrary banning of classes for no real reason is no way to run a campaign.

Seriously though, don't. I'm with the bard folks. Might as well make the best of the group you've got.

Lothalis

2012-09-25, 08:57 PM

Wow, thanks for all the options you guys rock!

Unfortunately I am stuck being the Skill Monkey on this adventure, I asked tonight.

I'm sorry for the confusion the on the "No Greyhawk only" issue, I was going to write out "No Ebberon, No Dragonlance, No Forgotten Realms ONLY Greyhawk and standard Only" I thought I cleared the line all the way but I guess I derped and missed the "No"

Thank you guys again you gave me a LOT to work with :smallsmile:

Snowbluff

2012-09-25, 10:24 PM

Cleric makes by far the best skill monkey.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a

It stacks with Divine Insight (5+CL Insight to a skill)!

Thiramon

2012-09-26, 12:32 AM

I second Spellthief.

Spellthief 17/Wizard 3/Unseen Seer 10/Ultimate Magus 10 (if you're going to 40)

High CL and lots of skills guaranteed. ^^

And maybe you should have a talk about Epic Spellthief effects (stealing >9th level of spells and stuff).

Regards,

Thiramon

animewatcha

2012-09-26, 12:47 AM

Are there artificers in greyhawk? ( Can imagine them in all settings, but DM wants to be a **** ).

If yes, level 30 artificer ( or heck 20 artificer and if you can squeeze it in, 10 levels of the master alchemist or whatever ). Break the economy and somehow break epic encounters with... wands.

Vizzerdrix

2012-09-26, 12:56 AM

Hmm... would mystic ranger work with swift hunter? If so Scout 3/ Mystic Ranger 16/ Cloistered Cleric 1/ any PrC 10 could work rather well.

Pilo

2012-09-26, 02:29 AM

Beguiler or cloistered cleric are good skills monkey.

ahenobarbi

2012-09-26, 04:41 AM

Bard 7/ Druid 13/ Foluchan Lyrist 10/ Whatever 10 ?

Amphetryon

2012-09-26, 08:17 AM

Spellthief 17/Uncanny Trickster 3/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Fortune's Friend 5. Go where ever you like from there. :smalltongue:

Dusk Eclipse

2012-09-26, 08:57 AM

TricksterSpellthief 17/Uncanny Trickster 3/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Fortune's Friend 5. Go where ever you like from there. :smalltongue:

Fixed that for you :smallwink:

dextercorvia

2012-09-26, 11:12 AM

Rogue17/UrPriest13?

I steal everything.

nedz

2012-09-26, 11:19 AM

Rogue17/UrPriest13?

I steal everything.

Erm, Ur-Priest is a 10 level PrC

Ed:
SpellThief 20/Ur-Priest 10 (not in this order) can steal more.

dextercorvia

2012-09-26, 11:19 AM

Erm, Ur-Priest is a 10 level PrC

They are in epic.

Metahuman1

2012-09-26, 05:20 PM

Play a wizard who abuses the 9th lvl spell absorption and item crafting feats along with that feat in dragon compendium that makes it so that when you get a number boost from a spell it get's increased by 50% and the Guidance of the Avatar spell to always have a +60 form spells and magic Items.

Your a wizard, it's in character. And plus, doing this, your a wizard.

Or just be a tricked out conjurer who didn't ban abjuration and uses summons + Absorption abuse + utility spells to make it utterly unnecessary to even attempt a skill check ever.

Bonzai

2012-09-26, 05:50 PM

I always liked Incarnates as skill monkeys myself, but they kind of fall off the higher the level power wise. Plus there isn't a whole lot of benefit to going past 20 in it (no essentia capacity improvement till 31st lvl). But at lvl 18, you can easily get a;

+18 bonus (plus ranks and ability mods) to Slieght of hand, Bluffs on feints, handle animal, ride, Swim, Profession: Sailor, Use rope, Spot, Deciepher script, Spellcraft, Use Magic device, and all constitution based skill checks.

+16 to (plus ranks and ability mods) Balance, escape artist, tumble, Disable device, open lock, slieght of hand, Bluff, diplomacy, gather information, search, sense motive.

You want ranged damage, they can deal 8d6 acid. This is about Warlock level of damage. Not the best, but it's ok.

But if you want to get back at your DM? Go Illithid/Psychic Warrior/Illithid Savant. Get plenty to eat, and you will have all the skills you need in no time.

Malkav

2012-09-26, 05:54 PM

I like simplicity.
Rogue 3/Paladin 4/Swashbuckler 13/Avenger 10

Have a HUGE Charisma (easily 30+) and you will abuse DMM and kill like a boss.
Of course Daring Outlaw for Swash. and Rogue synergy.
Freedom of Movement and Glibness from Avenger are stupidly helpful.

OracleofWuffing

2012-09-26, 05:56 PM

Eh, you've got a level 30 monk on your side, just play something with Bluff and make him do all the Skill work for you.:smallwink:

Zombulian

2012-09-26, 05:58 PM

INCARNUM.
DO IT. DOOOO EEEEET.

Psyren

2012-09-26, 06:44 PM

INCARNUM.
DO IT. DOOOO EEEEET.

Damn, someone beat me to it.

Yeah, Totemist 30 would be fun here. Or Soul Caster/Manifester, or Sapphire Kobold Hierarch.

GreenSerpent

2012-09-26, 07:19 PM

Half-Ogre Totemist /Hurling Hulker?

Grapple and throw ALL the enemies!

Zombulian

2012-09-26, 08:32 PM

Damn, someone beat me to it.

Yeah, Totemist 30 would be fun here. Or Soul Caster/Manifester, or Sapphire Kobold Hierarch.

ha.

filler filler filler filler so i can mock Psyreeennn

Malkav

2012-09-26, 09:48 PM

rogue 10/ranger 10/hellreaver 10

Kelb_Panthera

2012-09-29, 05:45 AM

This will probably be incredibly unhelpful, but you should probably play the walking game.

That batch of arbitrary restrictions on your character is completely unreasonable, especially in epic.

If any of the casters knows what they're doing with epic spellcasting, they're the only ones that are going to be doing anything relevant anyway. Even if that issue doesn't crop up, being a completely mundane character at epic play is a serious drag when there are casters about in any case.

TL;DR: a bad game is worse than no game at all. Walk away before friendships become strained.

Alienist

2012-09-29, 10:28 AM

huttj509

2012-09-29, 11:16 AM

Being invited to play in what will probably be a fairly short-lived campaign (most epics don't last long - it's all fun and games until someone blows up the multi-verse) but being asked to fill a particular role sounds to me like a very first world problem.

As an aside, you, and all the other outraged posters sound a bit like you're the sort of players who want to impose their will on the campaign. Any kind of limitation or restriction is a violation of your basic human rights, a red flag to a bull. Can't you just relax and ride the rails for a bit? Go along for the ride as it were?

Anyway, knowing that will probably fall on deaf ears, how about this... something really challenging. (You sound like you're a likely lad for an optimisation problem)

Optimise the bejeezus out of a level 30 commoner.

Better yet, a level 29 commoner and one level of noble (you were secretly born into the royal family and swapped at birth or something, and so it is your divine right to rule, and so you should be in charge)

To be honest though, they are probably expecting you to take a level of Rogue so you can do trap finding. Maybe that represents a bad year, one you'd rather not talk about.

So... what you do is you spend your WBL (what is the WBL for a level 30 character anyway?) on a bunch of +20 skill items, and other items to go with your optimisation.

Really crank the dials on the commoner aspect up to the max.

Unfortunately it sounds like that would not be accepted because it doesn't have 15 levels in a "skillmonkey class." And skillmonkey is his assigned "primary focus."

"So the classes in which I need to pull from are Rogue, CA Ninja, Spell Thief Bard and Scout. Beguiler is a caster (apparently) and no Psionics."

Without knowing more about the normal group dynamics, why the OP is assigned his role last, and what shenanigans he may have pulled in the past, we cannot make much in the way of overall judgments, but being assigned to be the "nonmagical skill guy" in Epic seems a bit...ow.

Depends on if you can use skill checks to balance on clouds and such. If that's the case, optimize the heck out of your skill modifiers and go for all those redonkulous DC examples (Climb a perfectly smooth, flat, overhang or ceiling? DC 100. That shopkeeper's friendly? Turn him into a fanatic follower with a DC 60 diplomacy check. Crawl through a 2 inch square hole? DC 80 escape artist. Animate ropes? DC 80 Use Rope.).

Augmental

2012-09-29, 11:52 AM

Kelb_Panthera

2012-09-29, 01:06 PM

@alienist:

I'm not outraged. Getting outraged over something this trivial is a waste of energy. I -do- however, believe that assigning character roles is over the line for a DM whether the player is a min/maxing munchkin or a model player with no understanding of optimization whatsoever. You don't tell others what to play. It's rude and doesn't accomplish anything other than to feed your power trip. This is the mother of all red flags for a bad DM.

BTW, just for the record I'm a low-op player that wants to tell a good story more than anything else. I thoroughly enjoy playing monks and paladins to boot. Having a black belt in op-fu doesn't mean you have to break the game.