Requesting Low Magic Build Advice

[inexorabletruth]

I'm working on a gestalt character right now as sort of a way to test my growth.


I came up with the idea for the character in when I posted interest in a PbP campaign. I don't usually build gestalt characters, and most of what I put together are low-op, single class stuff. No shenanigans.

Anyway, here's what I put together, and I wanted to see how the Playground would've done it. This is a learning exercise for me, so I'd appreciate any feedback you'd be interested in.

Here's his basic character sheet. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=450354)

He doesn't have a name, or equipment, or a spell list just yet, and I realize that I didn't put any ranks in Perform... which was kind of goofy. But I needed a non-Cloistered-Cleric way to build a knowledge junky that was good at natury stuff. Hence, the Ranger/Bardic Sage.

The feats and race are phoned in. I just didn't know what to do with him after I picked my classes and skills.

I know this much:
I want to build him up to Beast Heart Adept from Dungeonscape, pg. 48. Right now, he's only level 3. So I'm just building up to it.

Thoughts? Advice? Constructive criticism?

[Eldest]

Bard and Ranger seem to overlap... a lot. What do you want specifically out of each side?
I'm guessing that you are taking Ranger for the nature-based spells and the natural fluff of it, and bard for knowledge skills.

[inexorabletruth]

Pretty much. Normally I would've taken Cloistered Cleric and been done with it, after all, they can just pick up some nature domain and roll out.

But this was created in a world where Clerics and Wizards are pretty rare. Players are discouraged to make them. Rangers get the leftover Knowledge slots that Bards don't get, so I'm free to build the scientist I wanted. Magic is supposed to be super rare. I don't get the Ranger spells due to my low wisdom score, but I had to dump in something. WIS took the hit. The Bardic spells are all pretty fluffy for a research scientist, so I think it fits into the world.

My character concept isn't all about DPS, but I'd like him to be useful in a fight. His main strength will come from his beastie friends when he becomes the Beast Heart Adept.

Maybe I should've taken Wild Cohort... a friend suggested that.

[inexorabletruth]

BTW, you talk about overlap. In a normal gestalt setting, would you recommend things that don't? Basically mix a caster with a puncher?

Like Sorcerer/Barbarian?

I made the pick for fluff, but I also assumed that the builds complemented one another:
Ranger is better at punching and gets lots of free Special Abilities
Bard gets mad skills.

Make him super sneaky and mix in a decent BAB, then suddenly you've got a Skill Monkey with Arcane/Divine magic and decent DPS. Yet you've still got great RP flexibility.

:smallconfused:

What would you have done differently?

[Gavinfoxx]

Gestalt? You generally want some sort of (ideally at least somewhat int based) caster and Factotum, for non overlapping, as an example.

[nedz]

Normally you want a passive side: e.g. Wizard/Cleric may seem OP, but not if you never get to cast all your spells because everyone else is out before you get enough actions.
The overlap with Ranger//Bard is in the skills. Paladin//Bard is better for instance, and both are Cha dependant.

[Eldest]

What they said. Basically, Bard is just giving you Know skills. It's also giving you some spellcasting (active) and preformances if you put ranks into preform.

Now, this is what you seem to want; a knowledgeable hunter at home in the wilderness. If that's correct, I have an odd idea: be a Totemist from Magic of Incarnum//Factotum from Dungeonscape. The Totemist has a very wild fluff, and the factotum is one of the best at knowing everything, as well as being a very good "passive" class, in that very few of it's abilities require actions.

[eggs]

Beast Heart Adepts are neat, but their big monsters are kind of squishy. You'll probably want to pair it with other classes that support the biggest of the BHA's monsters if you want it to be a decent combatant.

I'm not sure what "low magic" means in this case. If it means the world doesn't have much magic, then Cloistered Cleric can be really good to stick on one side as a monster[+party] buffer.

Bard is a lower-powered alternative, which might be more appropriate if "low magic" means a restriction on PCs. But it needs those perform ranks to excel.

[inexorabletruth]

@ Gavinfoxx, nedz and Eldest:
So, when building gestalt, your main goal is to try to pair up the Ability Score requirements as much as possible, but try to keep the special abilities and skills as different as possible, so that you can have a wider array of class benefits to play with. I'm not sure how you differentiate passive from... active? I guess that's a class that can do a lot of things as free or swift actions? Is there a comprehensive list of classes that can do that?

@ Eldest:
I took a look at the classes. I actually really like them. I've never used anything from Magic of Incarnum before, so the book's just been collecting dust this whole time. Perhaps I should take a deeper look.

@ eggs:
It's mostly a campaign restriction. In the world the DM created, there isn't much magic. It exists, but dedicated casters are pretty much nonexistent. The world, at this point, has regressed to a much more savage version of itself, where might and skill keep a person alive more reliably than faith or archaic knowledge. A good example would be Revolution, that new TV series, if you replaced what happened to technology with what happened to magic. I'm not too worried about the Beast Heart Adept's companions being squishy at higher levels. In the case of this campaign, it would be a PbP... so leveling up, if it happened at all, would be slow going. I can meet the PrC at level 5, I believe. At that point, a CR4 companion is still going to be helpful for at least a level, especially if I use expanded tricks that help it with combat. I can't remember where those expanded tricks are, but I ran across them a while back... hmmm. That's going to take some digging.

[nedz]

@ Gavinfoxx, nedz and Eldest:
So, when building gestalt, your main goal is to try to pair up the Ability Score requirements as much as possible, but try to keep the special abilities and skills as different as possible, so that you can have a wider array of class benefits to play with. I'm not sure how you differentiate passive from... active? I guess that's a class that can do a lot of things as free or swift actions? Is there a comprehensive list of classes that can do that?


Pairing up the ability scores reduces MAD

Passive abilities are things which don't any actions.
Things like: Immunities, Auras, Movement modes (e.g. flying)

[inexorabletruth]

Ah... ok. This is starting to make a lot more sense. In a lot of ways, it's not unlike making a regular multi-class character; except you basically just level both classes at the same time and take the best things from each as you go.

It seems to be a lot more research and bookkeeping than multiclassing during the build stage, but in the end, it seems like I was freaking out over nothing.