[3.5] The Stuffy Doll Vs the Playground (V.1 ~ V.28)

[Arcanist]

You're a Theurge with access to dual 9's (select your 2 spell list). You are faced with a creature that has infinite Spell Resistance and automatically succeeds on all saving throws (other then this it is vulnerable). In 2 rounds it will immediately kill you. How do you kill it first using your spells/powers?


Note: All variables make this creature have infinite SR and cannot fail a Saving Throw. The creature will continue killing you, if you manage to revive yourself and will kill you no matter where you are in the Multiverse.

Person that gets the kill isn't the most creative, but the fastest. :smallsigh:

V.1: Creature has Humanoid creature type, 1HP, 1HD, 1 str 1 dex 1 con -int 1 wis, 1 cha. Eliminated by ability damage & just raw blasting

V.2: Creature has Humanoid creature type, 1 billion HP, 1HD, 1 str 1 dex 1con -int 1 wis, 1 cha. Status: Eliminated by Ability damage and Mailman infinite looping.

V.3: Creature has Undead creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, 1 str, 1 dex, -con, -int, 1 wis, 1 cha. Status: Eliminated by dextercorvia's ... This... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13949379&postcount=51)

V.4: Creature has Undead creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, 1 str, 1 dex, -con, -int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 10. Status: Eliminated by Lonely Tylenol's rain of coins (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12300237&postcount=7)

V.5: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from magic). Status: Eliminated by dextercorvia's I hate infinite damage loops... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13949753&postcount=62)

V.6: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from force spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn). Status: Eliminated by dextercorvia's I hate infinite damage loops... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13949753&postcount=62)

V.7: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Continuous effect of Globe of Invulnerability. Status: Non-existent.

SHUSH! V.7 NEVER HAPPENED! IGNORE IT FOREVER! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13950435&postcount=106)

V.8: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Continuous effect of Globe of Invulnerability, Ethereal. Status: Eliminated by Dex for the uptenth time.

V.9: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Continuous effect of Globe of Invulnerability, Ethereal.

Additional ability:
Karma (Su)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

V.10: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Continuous effect of Globe of Invulnerability, Ethereal. Status: Eliminated by the Neutronium self-destruction. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13951039&postcount=144)

Additional ability:
Karma (Su)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Su)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The Stuffy Doll, each round that it has it's curse on a creature immediately delivers a greater dispel magic and disjuction upon them.

V.11: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Continuous effect of Globe of Invulnerability, Ethereal. Status: Eliminated by a laps in knowledge about sudden silent spell.

Additional ability:
Stuffy Doll (Su)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed.

Karma (Su)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Su)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The Stuffy Doll, each round that it has it's curse on a creature immediately delivers a greater dispel magic and disjuction upon them.

Silence (Su)
Silence surrounds the victim of the Stuffy Dolls curse to the point where it impedes the very fabric of reality. Victims of the Stuffy Doll ability are continuously surrounded by a silence effect. The silence last until the curse plays out entirely.

V.12: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Continuous effect of Globe of Invulnerability, Ethereal. Status: Crushed by doubting the playgrounds power.

Additional ability:
Stuffy Doll (Su)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed.

Karma (Su)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Su)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The Stuffy Doll, each round that it has it's curse on a creature immediately delivers a greater dispel magic and disjuction upon them.

Silence (Su)
Silence surrounds the victim of the Stuffy Dolls curse to the point where it impedes the very fabric of reality. Victims of the Stuffy Doll ability are continuously surrounded by a silence effect. The silence last until the curse plays out entirely.

V.13: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, 10 int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain, Wish, Miracle and Limited Wish in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn). Status: Crushed to dust by a vest.

Location: In a temple about 50miles away from the Spire on the Outlands.

Additional ability:
Stuffy Doll (Ex)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed.

Karma (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The Stuffy Doll, each round that it has it's curse on a creature immediately delivers a greater dispel magic and disjuction upon them.

Silence (Ex)
Silence surrounds the victim of the Stuffy Dolls curse to the point where it impedes the very fabric of reality. Victims of the Stuffy Doll ability are continuously surrounded by a silence effect. The silence last until the curse plays out entirely.

[NotScaryBats]

Does it have HP? Punch it to death.

[VGLordR2]

Orb of X with Reserves of Strength?

[Kelb_Panthera]

You don't even have to be a theurge. A properly built mailman can deal thousands of HP of damage, no save, no spell resistance in a single round.

Gimme a sec and I'll cook up a link. (http://www.community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

There it is ^

[Flickerdart]

Blasting is too easy. Even if it's immune to damage, there are ways (using Undermaster, for instance, and then turning all that earth into something tougher) to bury an opponent. Toss in a weirdstone and now they can't teleport out. The only way out is with a Wish, but of course the creature has infinite spell resistance and always passes saves...

[Medic!]

I would cast Launch Bolt.

If I missed, next round I'd cast Launch Item and fling an acid flask into its square.

Both Cantrips!

[tyckspoon]

Hail of Stone. 1st level. No SR, no save, up to 5d4 damage. Done, no Mailman optimization needed.

[Siosilvar]

1. Cast Hail of Stone / manifest Swarm of Crystals.
2. Thing dies.
3. Get ninja'd by Tyckspoon.
4. ???
5. Profit!

[legomaster00156]

Hit it with a sling bullet.

Edit: Ah. Spells and powers only. My bad. Dominate the Fighter and have HIM hit it with a sling bullet.

[Lateral]

Dude, one HP. You could throw a rock at it and it'd die.

[Arcanist]

Hmm... Maybe leaving the creatures HP at 1 was a little... to much :smalltongue: Let's make it a little harder now: The creature now has 1,000,000,000 HP *Edits the OP for it*

I'm sure some of you are wondering "Why is he asking this?" Well I'm looking for spell tricks that can be used in 2 rounds that more or less kill the target. I liked that one trick that froze the target in a block of ice without even allowing a save or SR and just killed it with Suffocation damage.

[metabolicjosh]

um 1 HP ok i use wish to make my next attack hit. (Limited wish allows this too)
then i stab him with a fork. Why only 1 HP its not that hard to kill 1 HP its a matter of hitting.


Casters don't always have to cast... Well in my case i did, but you get the idea.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Just noticed the damn thing is mindless. I cast permanent image to create a box around it. Then I walk away and forget the thing even exists. It's not dead, but neither am I.

If I feel like it, maybe I'll come back later with some means of doing the 1 point of ability damage needed to paralyze it so I can coup-de-gras it to death. Probably not though, I have better things to do with my wizardly time.

[Arcanist]

Just noticed the damn thing is mindless. I cast permanent image to create a box around it. Then I walk away and forget the thing even exists. It's not dead, but neither am I.

If I feel like it, maybe I'll come back later with some means of doing the 1 point of ability damage needed to paralyze it so I can coup-de-gras it to death. Probably not though, I have better things to do with my wizardly time.

It's a timer. You have to completely destroy it through either ability damage, negative level, HP damage or some other method. In 2 rounds, unless destroyed it will kill you no matter where you hide in the multiverse. It won't consciously kill you it simply will, because that is it's only job and purpose.

[Siosilvar]

If I feel like it, maybe I'll come back later with some means of doing the 1 point of ability damage needed to paralyze it so I can coup-de-gras it to death. Probably not though, I have better things to do with my wizardly time.

I'd suggest Waves of Exhaustion or Ray of Exhaustion to give it a penalty to Strength and Dexterity that'll drop it, but both allow Spell Resistance.

Fell Weaken Hail of Stone should work.

EDIT: On second thought, it'll just succeed on the saving throw against the Coup de Grace. Maybe not.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

EDIT: The monster has 1,000,000,000hp 1 str 1 dex 1 con -int 1 wis 1 cha

Cloudkill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cloudkill.htm). Ignores SR, deal 1 Con damage on a successful save.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd suggest Waves of Exhaustion or Ray of Exhaustion to give it a penalty to Strength and Dexterity that'll drop it, but both allow Spell Resistance.

Fell Weaken Hail of Stone should work.
There's this.

It's a timer. You have to completely destroy it through either ability damage, negative level, HP damage or some other method. In 2 rounds, unless destroyed it will kill you no matter where you hide in the multiverse. It won't consciously kill you it simply will, because that is it's only job and purpose.

And then there's slapping the DM with a PHB. This just became a "rocks fall and you die in 2 rounds unless you amuse me" situation.

There's always pact of return. Let it kill me. I'll just be right back, no level loss, no prep'ed spells lost, just gotta dust myself off and go about my merry way. I don't recall the casting time for that, but if it's longer than a round I'll just wish it into place. Note that the wish doesn't effect the "enemy" at all.

[ericgrau]

Cloudkill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cloudkill.htm). Ignores SR, deal 1 Con damage on a successful save.

Nice.

I was going to add ego whip but it seems like it kills you even if unconscious. So no save no SR con damage is the only way I can see to do it. I mean besides that you either need nigh-infinite damage or a no save no SR death effect. EDIT: ooh bringing yourself back to life is interesting too, didn't think of that.

This looks like it's supposed to be a thought experiment to me so it didn't piss me off at all.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Cloudkill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cloudkill.htm). Ignores SR, deal 1 Con damage on a successful save.

Yep. Either Cloudkill or Ocular Shivering Touch.

[Arcanist]

And then there's slapping the DM with a PHB. This just became a "rocks fall and you die in 2 rounds unless you amuse me" situation.

There's always pact of return. Let it kill me. I'll just be right back, no level loss, no prep'ed spells lost, just gotta dust myself off and go about my merry way. I don't recall the casting time for that, but if it's longer than a round I'll just wish it into place. Note that the wish doesn't effect the "enemy" at all.

I'm not going to deny that. Honestly, I feel that I should have just bluntly put it "List of spells from all sources that just kill the creature without a save or SR". I'm not going to modify the challenge anymore to the point where it is effectively a "Rocks fall and you just die", I'm just going to change it to the point where it actually takes creativity and a weebit of originality to move an immovable object. So please, feel free to pact of return and then let it kill you. On your merry little way, make sure you stop by the exit of the dungeon to pick up your "I win, because I didn't lose" cookie. :smallsmile:


This looks like it's supposed to be a thought experiment to me so it didn't piss me off at all.

Partially. I want to see how creative the Playground can get on moving an immovable object

[Lateral]

Yep. Either Cloudkill or Ocular Shivering Touch.

Unfortunately, you still have to kill it if you use Shivering Touch, and that's no mean feat.

[Alienist]

Assuming a sufficiently high enough level:

Spend 2 rounds mocking the DM and then die.

After all, death is only a minor inconvenience for a sufficiently high level campaign.

[TuggyNE]

The most general way is just Dweomerkeeper, for (Su) spells, then hit it with... any number of things, really.

[Kelb_Panthera]

FWIW, the comment about slapping the DM was made mostly in jest. If this sort of thing ever came up in a real game I'd certainly be angry, but it takes alot more than that for something on the internet to do much more than make me shake my head at the absurdity of humanity.

[Arcanist]

FWIW, the comment about slapping the DM was made mostly in jest. If this sort of thing ever came up in a real game I'd certainly be angry, but it takes alot more than that for something on the internet to do much more than make me shake my head at the absurdity of humanity.

Hey, I'm only upset someone came up with the idea of just letting the damned thing run them over, standing up and flipping off the driver :smalltongue: All in good humor.

[ericgrau]

Miracle contingency
Miracle ressurection
==> contingent ressurection when I die

Summon monster III/summon natuer's ally III a CR 2 dire weasel. Dire weasel attaches and does 1d4 con damage. It is super effective. That was level 5. How low can we go?

[Flickerdart]

Miracle contingency
Miracle ressurection
==> contingent ressurection when I die

Summon monster III/summon natuer's ally III a CR 2 dire weasel. Dire weasel attaches and does 1d4 con damage. It is super effective. That was level 5. How low can we go?
Contingency can only handle 6th level or lower spells, so you can't actually do that.

[ericgrau]

raise dead then

[Arcanist]

raise dead

If you're just going to contingent raise dead yourself why not just use pact of return and cut out the middle man? :smalltongue:

Seriously, now you guys are just going to let it run you over :smallamused:

[TuggyNE]

Summon monster III/summon natuer's ally III a CR 2 dire weasel. Dire weasel attaches and does 1d4 con damage. It is super effective. That was level 5. How low can we go?

Similarly, summon or have rebuked a shadow; living foes reduced to 0 Str by a shadow's damage die. (Rebuking can theoretically be done at level 1, although it might be hard to arrange for.)

[animewatcha]

Use the Constricting Chains from BoED and penalize it via bondage in the name of rightousness (sp?)

[Endelehia]

-Cast Surge of Fortune.
-Cast Ray of Entropy,use an immediate action to gain the effect of the Surge of Fortune (treat your next roll as natural 20) and use it to penetrate the spell resistance.

[TuggyNE]

-Cast Surge of Fortune.
-Cast Ray of Entropy,use an immediate action to gain the effect of the Surge of Fortune (treat your next roll as natural 20) and use it to penetrate the spell resistance.

Unfortunately, CL checks do not work that way. There is no provision for auto-success on a 20 (or auto-failure on a 1), so unlike attack rolls and saves nothing special happens.

[mattie_p]

OK, we have 9s and we're trying to kill it? Playground, we can do better.

1. Timestop
2. Travel to our personal genesis fast-time demiplane
3. Do whatever research we need to do, find out where this thing came from, and how to make one myself
4. Teleport through time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b)
5. Kill it 20 years ago, or whatever made it 20 years ago (or more)
6. Make one
7. ???
8. Profit

[Endelehia]

Unfortunately, CL checks do not work that way. There is no provision for auto-success on a 20 (or auto-failure on a 1), so unlike attack rolls and saves nothing special happens.

I played d&d for almost a decade and i never noticed that :smallredface: Anyway good to know.

[Amidus Drexel]

OK, we have 9s and we're trying to kill it? Playground, we can do better.

1. Timestop
2. Travel to our personal genesis fast-time demiplane
3. Do whatever research we need to do, find out where this thing came from, and how to make one myself
4. Teleport through time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b)
5. Kill it 20 years ago, or whatever made it 20 years ago (or more)
6. Make one
7. ???
8. Profit

I think that's what the OP did, and now he is in either stage 7 or 8 of that plan. :smallbiggrin:

[Ashtagon]

http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/death-hail--1248/

Casting it both rounds gives you >90% chance of victory.

[ericgrau]

Bard wizard.

Pact of return
Wait to die and come back
Silent glibness
Spen the next few minutes convincing it to lower its spell resistance and accept your next "friendly" spell.
Dominate it.
Start your own thread.

Alternatively divine insight up a huge diplomacy check with a high charisma cleric.

[HunterOfJello]

Why does everyone keep killing themselves? What's the actual advantage of dying and then coming back to life? Is it in order to get outside of combat?

[Flickerdart]

Why does everyone keep killing themselves? What's the actual advantage of dying and then coming back to life? Is it in order to get outside of combat?
Because you have to either kill the enemy in 2 rounds or die, death is cheap, and indestructible god-machines aren't.

[Tr011]

The topic has already be solved :/
But next time, please give more informations:
1. How much HD does it have?
2. What creature type does it have?
3. Do we have only two spell lists or do we can use feats or own builds?
4. What about equipment?

If we can use our own build, just attacking it 1,000,000 times should work just fine.
If it has only 1 HD, wish yourself into a vampire and make a negative level - without save.
If it has more HD but not too much, you could Chaos Shuffle your feats into metamagic ones and then go for Maximized Repeated Twinned Split Enervation (lvl16) Quickened Repeated Maximized Split Enervation (lvl16), next round cast Maximized Empowered Twinned Split Enervation (lvl 14) and Quickened Twinned Maximized Split Enervation (lvl17). That is kinda heavy but with a bit optimization it works just fine to fill those highly metamagic'd spells into ur spell slots (i.e. Celerity is a free Quicken). It would be 88 negative levels.

I'm not quiet sure about this, but I think Irresistable Spell cheated around that SR should also work.

Another thing: Vorpal.

[Arcanist]

The topic has already be solved :/
But next time, please give more informations:
1. How much HD does it have?
2. What creature type does it have?
3. Do we have only two spell lists or do we can use feats or own builds?
4. What about equipment?

Hmm... Good point... I guess I should add more information :smallconfused:

1. It has 84,000,000HD. Random number, don't ask
2. It is an Undead. Again, random creature type
3. You have 2 spell list and can use your own feats and builds.
4. You have 20th level WBL so go crazy.
5. The timer goes by 2 rounds for you so Time Stop wouldn't exactly help. Neither would the slow time Genesis laboratory across the cosmos, since the moment 2 rounds pass by for you, you die.


If we can use our own build, just attacking it 1,000,000 times should work just fine.
If it has only 1 HD, wish yourself into a vampire and make a negative level - without save.
If it has more HD but not too much, you could Chaos Shuffle your feats into metamagic ones and then go for Maximized Repeated Twinned Split Enervation (lvl16) Quickened Repeated Maximized Split Enervation (lvl16), next round cast Maximized Empowered Twinned Split Enervation (lvl 14) and Quickened Twinned Maximized Split Enervation (lvl17). That is kinda heavy but with a bit optimization it works just fine to fill those highly metamagic'd spells into ur spell slots (i.e. Celerity is a free Quicken). It would be 88 negative levels.

I'm not quiet sure about this, but I think Irresistable Spell cheated around that SR should also work.

Another thing: Vorpal.

Irresistable Spell only negates Saving throws, not spell resistance.

[Morph Bark]

Bard wizard.

Pact of return
Wait to die and come back
Silent glibness
Spen the next few minutes convincing it to lower its spell resistance and accept your next "friendly" spell.
Dominate it.
Start your own thread.

Alternatively divine insight up a huge diplomacy check with a high charisma cleric.

Wouldn't work. You cannot lower infinite spell resistance.


Irresistable Spell only negates Saving throws, not spell resistance.

Irresistable Spell was errata'd to only give a +10 DC boost.

[Misery Esquire]

Wouldn't work. You cannot lower infinite spell resistance.

If I were the DM, I would agree to this plan. And tell the player, that, infact, it will lower it's SR by One Million each round... Yes, yes. You can just wait. I am sure it will run out eventually. :smallamused:

[dextercorvia]

Hmm... Good point... I guess I should add more information :smallconfused:

1. It has 84,000,000HD. Random number, don't ask
2. It is an Undead. Again, random creature type
3. You have 2 spell list and can use your own feats and builds.
4. You have 20th level WBL so go crazy.
5. The timer goes by 2 rounds for you so Time Stop wouldn't exactly help. Neither would the slow time Genesis laboratory across the cosmos, since the moment 2 rounds pass by for you, you die.



Irresistable Spell only negates Saving throws, not spell resistance.

Undead with a Con score?

[Arcanist]

Undead with a Con score?

I told you it was a random creature type :smallredface: *edits the op*

[Tr011]

5. The timer goes by 2 rounds for you so Time Stop wouldn't exactly help. Neither would the slow time Genesis laboratory across the cosmos, since the moment 2 rounds pass by for you, you die.
Oh there is a way. If you make it to put your enemy and an ally (summon or something) in you fast time Genesis laboratory across the cosmos, in your 2 rounds the ally can punch him to death using a year.


Irresistable Spell only negates Saving throws, not spell resistance.

But there are other ways to ignore SR. I.e. Supernatural Spell might work.

I assume SR=PR, if not it's kinda easy...

Using Roof Jumper is always fun. For massive damage when you jump down from the moon.

[dextercorvia]

I told you it was a random creature type :smallredface: *edits the op*

That significantly changes things. Up til now, the only kill strategies that worked (after the HP retcon) was Cloudkill, or Shadow Str damage. (Forgive me if I missed one.) An undead is immune to both of these.

[Devmaar]

Would it be possible to boost a Greater Turning attempt to the level it would be effective here?

[Telonius]

Hmm. Wonder if a Killer Gnome would work on this bad boy. Succeeding on a saving throw actually makes things worse...

It has 28,000,000 feats. What sorts of things will it have?

It wins all saving throws. Does it win all opposed skill checks? (84,000,000 levels seems to suggest "probably," but a Diplomancer could still make it your fanatical follower...)

A few things from BoED can help. Nimbus of Light ->Holy Radiance feats - stand next to him and he takes damage, no save.
Celestial Brilliance- Takes (minimum)1d6 damage per round as long as he's in the light.
Bunch of other spells in this vein. Get enough Followers casting it, and it'll be death by a thousand cuts pretty soon.

[dextercorvia]

Jr Idiot Crusader*/Warlock11 with a Familiar.

*Swordsage/Warblade/Crusader1 with Martial Study: White Raven Tactics and Extra Granted Maneuver. By cleverly choosing almost all of the maneuvers that overlap with the crusader list with your Swordsage and Warblade levels, you have more granted maneuvers than maneuvers known, so all of your maneuvers refresh at the beginning of each of your turns.

Buy a custom saddle, so your familiar can ride you. You now act on your familiar's initiative count, and we can ignore those pesky arguments about not being your own ally.

1. Use Vitriolic Blast (hit on a 20 if nothing else)
2. Use WRT on your familiar giving both of you another turn this round
3. At the beginning of your turn refresh WRT.
4. ???
5. Profit

[The Glyphstone]

You should edit back into the OP each successive iteration of the creature that we have defeated (the 1Hp version, and the 1million HP version), so people reading the thread don't get confused.

[Arcanist]

You should edit back into the OP each successive iteration of the creature that we have defeated (the 1Hp version, and the 1million HP version), so people reading the thread don't get confused.

Good point. Will edit that to account for it.

I must say, this thread didn't have the desired effect, but it certainly is entertaining :smallsmile:

[The Cat Goddess]

Jr Idiot Crusader*/Warlock11 with a Familiar.

*Swordsage/Warblade/Crusader1 with Martial Study: White Raven Tactics and Extra Granted Maneuver. By cleverly choosing almost all of the maneuvers that overlap with the crusader list with your Swordsage and Warblade levels, you have more granted maneuvers than maneuvers known, so all of your maneuvers refresh at the beginning of each of your turns.

Buy a custom saddle, so your familiar can ride you. You now act on your familiar's initiative count, and we can ignore those pesky arguments about not being your own ally.

1. Use Vitriolic Blast (hit on a 20 if nothing else)
2. Use WRT on your familiar giving both of you another turn this round
3. At the beginning of your turn refresh WRT.
4. ???
5. Profit

Even as a Warblade, you can't use a Maneuver on the same round you refresh your Maneuvers.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Since its AC is unspecified (and presumed to be hittable?), I am a CG Pixie Crusader 11/Cleric of Kord 1 (or some RKV analogue that has an IL of 11) with a dagger, the stance Aura of Chaos, and the Luck domain. I win initiative (or deny its DEX bonus some other, more reliable way), activate my wand of Wraithstrike in the chamber, and then I make it rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12300237&postcount=7). Its AC is 10 (because it is touch and flat), so even if it has NI AC, I can still swing it... And I have the feats to spare for the Mage Slayer line, as well.

What will the next iteration look like?

[Ashtagon]

http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/death-hail--1248/

Casting it both rounds gives you >90% chance of victory.


V.4: Creature has Undead creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, 1 str, 1 dex, -con, -int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 10. Status: Not dead yet

Actually, I'm going for maximised death hail. That's an "I win" button, no dice rolls required, against this beastie.

[Arcanist]

Since its AC is unspecified (and presumed to be hittable?), I am a CG Pixie Crusader 11/Cleric of Kord 1 (or some RKV analogue that has an IL of 11) with a dagger, the stance Aura of Chaos, and the Luck domain. I win initiative (or deny its DEX bonus some other, more reliable way), activate my wand of Wraithstrike in the chamber, and then I make it rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12300237&postcount=7). Its AC is 10 (because it is touch and flat), so even if it has NI AC, I can still swing it... And I have the feats to spare for the Mage Slayer line, as well.

What will the next iteration look like?

... I wonder if just flat out immunity to daggers would be fair... :smallconfused:

... Nah... That's cheap... :smallannoyed: Alright, I'll give it to you. You've killed the Stuffy Doll's latest iteration (maybe Amazo? idk...) :smalltongue:

Back to the drawing board :smallsigh:


Actually, I'm going for maximised death hail. That's an "I win" button, no dice rolls required, against this beastie.

He's Undead and therefore immune to the fortitude save that he passed just for the lulz. I do like you're idea though so cookie for you.

EDIT: Next Incarnation is up. I know I could have just added flat out regeneration (ala Big-T), but being immune to damage flat out would have just been a little unfair...

[Telonius]

You're a Theurge with access to dual 9's (select your 2 spell list). You are faced with a creature that has infinite Spell Resistance and automatically succeeds on all saving throws (other then this it is vulnerable). In 2 rounds it will immediately kill you. How do you kill it first using your spells/powers?

Note: All variables make this creature have infinite SR and cannot fail a Saving Throw. The creature will continue killing you, if you manage to revive yourself and will kill you no matter where you are in the Multiverse.

V.5: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, 1 str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from magic).

Crit it with a Ghost Touch Heavenly Burst Weapon (BoED). It won't take extra damage from the crit, but the burst property will activate, dealing it 1d2Str damage (no save).

EDIT: Oil of Bless Weapon will confirm a critical hit. Trying to track down the source of this, but apparently there's something called a "Wasp Bounty Hunter" prestige class from Rokugan that lets an archer take 20 on an attack if he uses a full-round action. (This may be mythical or homebrew, will update this if I find out anything else).

[dextercorvia]

Even as a Warblade, you can't use a Maneuver on the same round you refresh your Maneuvers.

I have WRT as a Crusader Manuever. So, I can use it every time it refreshes.

[DaedalusMkV]

Since its AC is unspecified (and presumed to be hittable?), I am a CG Pixie Crusader 11/Cleric of Kord 1 (or some RKV analogue that has an IL of 11) with a dagger, the stance Aura of Chaos, and the Luck domain. I win initiative (or deny its DEX bonus some other, more reliable way), activate my wand of Wraithstrike in the chamber, and then I make it rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12300237&postcount=7). Its AC is 10 (because it is touch and flat), so even if it has NI AC, I can still swing it... And I have the feats to spare for the Mage Slayer line, as well.

What will the next iteration look like?

That has precisely nothing to do with spells. I'm pretty sure that's not what the OP wanted. Also, you seem to be overestimating your ability to deal with NI AC. You aren't touching Luck, Profane, Sacred, Insight or Deflection bonuses with that combo, and Mage Slayer only works against AC from spells or spell-like effects. A creature with an infinite innate or supernatural bonus of any of the above defeats you. That said, I'm not sure that it is killable with spells at this point. I mean, a Hulking Hurler could easily take it down in one hit, with a billion or so d6 of damage from throwing a dwarf star at it, in addition to your silly quasi-RAW d2 Crusader.

Let's see... Yeah, that might work. One side is psionics, the other side is a DMM Cleric. Max out Diplomacy. Have Lightning Mace and Diehard. You suck with your maces, but nobody cares. You'll need Psicrystal Containment as well, but that's covered by your Psion levels.

Step 1: Prepare contingent resurrection effect. You're going to be dealing a billion damage to yourself before the day is up. This should be before your two rounds begin.
Step 2: DMM: Persist Delay Death. This is just generally useful, so should be up at all times.
Step 3: Diplomance the abomination to Helpful. Manifest Quickened Share Pain expending your Psicrystal's psionic focus. Convince the abomination to accept the spell using awesome Diplomancer skills.
Step 4: Round 2. Manifest Quickened Death Urge on yourself, purposefully failing the save. Begin a Full Attack with your Lightning Mace. Since you auto-hit and auto-crit until you drop unconscious, and you get to choose when you drop unconscious thanks to Diehard, you can continue to hit yourself until you have taken one billion damage. The abomination takes the same damage and dies. You are now unconscious at about negative one billion HP. With some luck you will naturally recover to 0 HP before Delay Death wears off. If not...
Step 5: Contingent Resurrection. Victory!

This should work on anything not entirely immune to damage. It can deal any amount of damage entirely ignoring saves, SR, DR, AC and immunities since the damage is untyped non-physical and the actual target is you. The only way to not die from this method is to be immune to Diplomacy (by being a PC, for example) or immunity to Damage entirely. I can speed it up to one round using Schism or Temporal Acceleration if necessary.

[Chess435]

Assuming the insta-kill in 2 rounds is a property the creature itself.

1. Shapechange into whatever it is you're fighting.
2. Time Stop
3. ????????
4. Profit!

[dextercorvia]

Sorcerer//X

Need Arcane Thesis Orb of Force, Maximize Spell, Easy Metamagic Maximize, and Sanctum Spell

Round 1: Cast Greater Arcane Fusion containing X=Sanctum Greater Arcane Fusion(X,Y), and Y=Sanctum Maximized Orb of Force.

Each casting deals 60 points of force damage, no save, no SR, and hits on a nat 20. This continues until it is dead, and then I can choose something else, so the loop is stoppable.

Round 2: Drink a cup of tea.

Edited to avoid SR.

[Ashtagon]

http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-incarnum--74/incarnum-bladestorm--1818/

Will save instead of Fort save means this beastie isn't immune :smalltongue:

It's too high level to maximise, but a point of essentia (take a level of some incarnum wielding class) and you're golden for an autokill.

[olentu]

Hmm, could one not just use a sufficiently high level scroll of bone talisman to turn/destroy the creature if I am recalling the spell correctly.

[dextercorvia]

http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-incarnum--74/incarnum-bladestorm--1818/

Will save instead of Fort save means this beastie isn't immune :smalltongue:

It's too high level to maximise, but a point of essentia (take a level of some incarnum wielding class) and you're golden for an autokill.

Wisdom damage doesn't kill.

[Ashtagon]

Wisdom damage doesn't kill.

No, but last time I checked, a helpless creature can't do anything, which allows you to kill it at your leisure.

[Arcanist]

No, but last time I checked, a helpless creature can't do anything, which allows you to kill it at your leisure.

V.6 is up and I should probably list his method of killing you :smallconfused:

Stuffy Doll (Ex)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. Upon being cursed the Stuffy Doll greater Teleports (or Greater plane shift) towards the target creature giving the creature ample time to respond. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed.

I'd like to throw this out, this is in the realm of homebrew, so don't call me out on that please :smalltongue:

[DaedalusMkV]

No, but last time I checked, a helpless creature can't do anything, which allows you to kill it at your leisure.

As the OP said, it doesn't need to take any action to kill you. If it isn't dead, you die every two rounds. No exceptions. If we only needed to disable it or keep it stunlocked we'd just Ego Whip it to 0 Cha and laugh about the whole thing.

[Ravens_cry]

Wisdom damage doesn't kill.
No, but it does make you unconscious (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#unconscious), which makes you helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#unconscious), collapsing to the ground, the walls of mind crumbling.

[Arcanist]

As the OP said, it doesn't need to take any action to kill you. If it isn't dead, you die every two rounds. No exceptions. If we only needed to disable it or keep it stunlocked we'd just Ego Whip it to 0 Cha and laugh about the whole thing.

Precisely. :smallsmile:

[Telonius]

... yeah, if Stuffy doll is active, then none of the ability damage/drain tricks will work. 0 Con is the only ability damage that will outright kill something. If it's just killing you with mind bullets from 200 planes away, it's going to be a much tougher kill.

Just finding the thing is going to take (probably) at least a round, unless it politely teleports next to you to let you know it's activating the ability. And if it doesn't, unless you're already a paranoid Batman wizard, you don't have any way of knowing you've been cursed or targeted.

[Arcanist]

Just finding the thing is going to take (probably) at least a round, unless it politely teleports next to you to let you know it's activating the ability. And if it doesn't, unless you're already a paranoid Batman wizard, you don't have any way of knowing you've been cursed or targeted.

I KNEW I FORGOT SOMETHING! *scribble*

[DaedalusMkV]

V.6 is up and I should probably list his method of killing you :smallconfused:

My method probably kills V.6. Share Pain may or may not actually deal HP damage by RAW (there's always been a big argument about this one). It's unclear whether it bypasses Regeneration entirely, and there's no consensus on the ruling because of vague wording. Alternatively, pick a deity with a light Mace as their favoured weapon, spiritual weapon, grab mace and attack self with it to bypass the regeneration. Use Schism to fit it all into two Rounds.

[KingOfLaughter]

Wish that everything around it was a death void? Wish the gods to smite it? Wish a 2billion ton magic boulder to fall on it at 400mph?

[Arcanist]

Step 1: Prepare contingent resurrection effect. You're going to be dealing a billion damage to yourself before the day is up. This should be before your two rounds begin.

You can't contingency Resurrection.


Step 2: DMM: Persist Delay Death. This is just generally useful, so should be up at all times.

I'm getting an Omnificer feel here...


Step 3: Diplomance the abomination to Helpful. Manifest Quickened Share Pain expending your Psicrystal's psionic focus. Convince the abomination to accept the spell using awesome Diplomancer skills.

I should probably note that were going with Psi-Magic transparency. Even if the Stuffy Doll views you as a Friend or even a God for that matter, he will kill you.


Step 4: Round 2. Manifest Quickened Death Urge on yourself, purposefully failing the save. Begin a Full Attack with your Lightning Mace. Since you auto-hit and auto-crit until you drop unconscious, and you get to choose when you drop unconscious thanks to Diehard, you can continue to hit yourself until you have taken one billion damage. The abomination takes the same damage and dies. You are now unconscious at about negative one billion HP. With some luck you will naturally recover to 0 HP before Delay Death wears off. If not...

I've never actually seen someone blatantly commit suicide in D&D :smallconfused: and by blatantly I mean silting your wrist, or bashing yourself into a wall forever, or summoning Big-T just for the specific purpose of getting eaten and dying :smallconfused: After those 4 full attacks you can walk away from the stuffy doll... not sure how you're getting infinite self-attacks... :smallconfused:


Step 5: Contingent Resurrection. Victory!

Just go with Pact of Return... much better more interesting spell...


This should work on anything not entirely immune to damage. It can deal any amount of damage entirely ignoring saves, SR, DR, AC and immunities since the damage is untyped non-physical and the actual target is you. The only way to not die from this method is to be immune to Diplomacy (by being a PC, for example) or immunity to Damage entirely. I can speed it up to one round using Schism or Temporal Acceleration if necessary.

Temporal Acceleration into Time Stop for Hyper Time... you still die in your time (2 rounds). Stuffy Doll is not a PC and I really don't want to just blatantly make him out right immune to damage. Schism won't allow you to punch yourself while you're punching yourself :smallconfused:

[Kazyan]

Stuffy Doll is, however, mindless. I think that's Diplo-immunity.

[Siosilvar]

You can't contingency Resurrection.Not with the contingency spell, you mean.


-snip- After those 4 full attacks you can walk away from the stuffy doll... not sure how you're getting infinite self-attacks... :smallconfused:

Lightning Maces gives you an extra attack when you crit. Death urge makes all the attacks crit.

[olentu]

Not with the contingency spell, you mean.



Lightning Maces gives you an extra attack when you crit. Death urge makes all the attacks crit.

It is when you roll a threat on an attack roll actually if I recall the feat correctly.

[Arcanist]

Not with the contingency spell, you mean.

That is what I mean :smallsmile:


Lightning Maces gives you an extra attack when you crit. Death urge makes all the attacks crit.

Derp~
Didn't notice Lightning in front of that Mace :smalltongue: but doesn't death urging yourself sort of fall into the realm of using illusions on yourself? or Mindraping yourself? :smallconfused:

[DaedalusMkV]

Derp~
Didn't notice Lightning in front of that Mace :smalltongue: but doesn't death urging yourself sort of fall into the realm of using illusions on yourself? or Mindraping yourself? :smallconfused:

Yourself is a viable target for Death Urge. You can choose to voluntarily fail a Will save if you want to. The combo works, even if it does seem to be counterintuitive.

[Lapak]

Yourself is a viable target for Death Urge. You can choose to voluntarily fail a Will save if you want to. The combo works, even if it does seem to be counterintuitive.I think this exact configuration came up in a Test of Spite or similar PvP combat thing on this very forum, IIRC. A Lightning-Mace build tried to Death Urge the opposition and ran into Spell Turning or something along those lines, I think?

[dextercorvia]

Edit: I think you missed this. I think it get's credit for Telonius's kill (see below), and I think it still kills the current incarnation. (I'm not really certain what Archetypal Shape is and can't find it in S:CoT)


Sorcerer//X

Need Arcane Thesis Shadow Conjuration, Maximize Spell, Easy Metamagic Maximize, and Sanctum Spell

Round 1: Cast Greater Arcane Fusion containing X=Sanctum Greater Arcane Fusion(X,Y), and Y=Sanctum Maximized Shadow Conjuration replicating Hail of Stone.

Each casting deals 2 points of damage, no save, no SR, no attack roll. This continues until it is dead, and then I can choose something else, so the loop is stoppable.

Round 2: Drink a cup of tea.


Crit it with a Ghost Touch Heavenly Burst Weapon (BoED). It won't take extra damage from the crit, but the burst property will activate, dealing it 1d2Str damage (no save).

EDIT: Oil of Bless Weapon will confirm a critical hit. Trying to track down the source of this, but apparently there's something called a "Wasp Bounty Hunter" prestige class from Rokugan that lets an archer take 20 on an attack if he uses a full-round action. (This may be mythical or homebrew, will update this if I find out anything else).

Incorporeal Undead have no Strength Score. Heavenly burst deals extra damage to the creature, and Strength damage to the wielder. Strength damage doesn't kill anything.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think this exact configuration came up in a Test of Spite or similar PvP combat thing on this very forum, IIRC. A Lightning-Mace build tried to Death Urge the opposition and ran into Spell Turning or something along those lines, I think?

Er, no. The opponent targeted the Lightning Maces guy.

[DaedalusMkV]

Edit: I think you missed this. I think it get's credit for Telonius's kill (see below), and I think it still kills the current incarnation. (I'm not really certain what Archetypal Shape is and can't find it in S:CoT)


Your method killed the old version, but fails against this one due to Regeneration ignoring your damage. You're right, though, you should probably get the credit for the V5 kill.

[Siosilvar]

I think this exact configuration came up in a Test of Spite or similar PvP combat thing on this very forum, IIRC. A Lightning-Mace build tried to Death Urge the opposition and ran into Spell Turning or something along those lines, I think?

Olo Demonsbane had Lightning Maces + Aptitude Crossbows and just plain failed the will save. He only did 44758 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125698) damage because he ran out of ammo.

[Lapak]

Er, no. The opponent targeted the Lightning Maces guy.I knew I was shaky on the details there.

[Arcanist]

Incorporeal Undead have no Strength Score. Heavenly burst deals extra damage to the creature, and Strength damage to the wielder. Strength damage doesn't kill anything.

Thank you for catching me on that. I completely forgot that the 5th incarnation was Incorporeal. *scribble*

[Chess435]

My shapechange trick still works, since you can use Time Stop to get through the two rounds faster than it can.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

For v6, it's easy.

Arcane Thesis + Sanctum Spell + Spell Matrix + Spellsurge. Infinite recursive (Lesser Orb of Force).

Sure, I'll only hit on a natural 20. But guess what... I have infinite orbs shooting out with one action, so eventually I'll get there.

Have a nice day.

Failing that? Ice Assassin. Go play with yourself and leave me alone.

Or, if you really want to get cheesy, Plane Shift to a plane with a high time dilation. Craft up hundreds of Ice Assassins and sick them on it.

Failing that, Mindrape. You don't want to kill me.

Also, how does it have such an arbitrarily high touch AC? There's plenty of ways to obviate most of it.

Also, Greater Anticipate Teleport. Stuffy Doll is stuck for a few days. Now I have plenty of time to eliminate my target.

[DaedalusMkV]

My shapechange trick still works, since you can use Time Stop to get through the two rounds faster than it can.

The creature has tens of millions of HD. Your method hasn't worked since that was clarified, thanks to the Shapechange HD cap.

[Hiro Protagonest]

My shapechange trick still works, since you can use Time Stop to get through the two rounds faster than it can.

And if you say Time Stop doesn't work because you're dead in two of your rounds...

That makes sense on a plane with the Fast Time trait. But not with Time Stop. Time Stop just speeds you up to the point that everything else is standing still, it doesn't actually stop time for everyone but you.

[Arcanist]

For v6, it's easy.

Arcane Thesis + Sanctum Spell + Spell Matrix + Spellsurge. Infinite recursive (Hail of Stone + Energy Substitution (Force)).

Have a nice day.

Hmm... Yep that does it :smallsmile: V.6 is killed by ShneekeyTheLost *Scribble*


Failing that? Ice Assassin. Go play with yourself and leave me alone.

You still die, because the creature is in existance, and 2 rounds will pass for you, before 2 rounds pass for it.


Or, if you really want to get cheesy, Plane Shift to a plane with a high time dilation. Craft up hundreds of Ice Assassins and sick them on it.

It goes by your time, not the Stuffy Dolls time


Failing that, Mindrape. You don't want to kill me.

It's Mindless and therefore immune.


Also, how does it have such an arbitrarily high touch AC? There's plenty of ways to obviate most of it.

I legitimately rolled a 100d100 for it and got something like 5,367 or something like that (wonder what I'll roll this time?) If you'd like I can just take a legitimate method of stating out his AC :smallsmile:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Hmm... Yep that does it :smallsmile: V.6 is killed by ShneekeyTheLost *Scribble* Lesser Orb of Force also works and is more legit, I have edited my post to reflect this. Sure, I only hit on a nat-20, but considering I have infinite attacks in one round... not a problem


It goes by your time, not the Stuffy Dolls timeAnticipate Teleport. Go get stuck in a space/time fold for a few days. Now I have plenty of time to do the deed.

[Arcanist]

Lesser Orb of Force also works and is more legit, I have edited my post to reflect this. Sure, I only hit on a nat-20, but considering I have infinite attacks in one round... not a problem

Anticipate Teleport. Go get stuck in a space/time fold for a few days. Now I have plenty of time to do the deed.

I'll review the adjustments :smallsmile:

How exactly are you getting yourself trapped in an Anticipated Teleport rig?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'll review the adjustments :smallsmile:

How exactly are you getting yourself trapped in an Anticipated Teleport rig?

Stuffy Doll uses Greater Teleport to get to you. Anticipate Teleport, it tries to teleport to you, and gets caught in a space/time fold. Oops.

Besides, there's all kinds of ways to stop Teleports. Forbiddance, that stone thingy, Dimension Lock... it's pretty trivial to be able to keep Stuffy Doll from getting to you.

[dextercorvia]

V.5: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from magic). Status: Eliminated by dextercorvia's I hate infinite damage loops... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13949753&postcount=62)

V.6: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from force spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn). Status: Still standing.

Sorry. I need to switch Version 5 to Orb of Force. Shadow Conjuration allows SR, and actual Hail of Stone requires too much gp worth of material components.

That takes down V6 if no one else has already. (@Shneeky: There is no Energy Substitution ForceI see where you switched to lesser orb of force.).

[mattie_p]

It can still wish teleport to you (regardless of local conditions clause)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It can still wish teleport to you (regardless of local conditions clause)

Read the Stuffy Doll post. It specifically says it uses Greater Teleport or Plane Shift. Both of which can be neutralized trivially. It doesn't use Wish to get to you, so it is irrelevant.

[Arcanist]

Sorry. I need to switch Version 5 to Orb of Force. Shadow Conjuration allows SR, and actual Hail of Stone requires too much gp worth of material components.

That takes down V6 if no one else has already. (@Shneeky: There is no Energy Substitution Force).

Having connection problems so I haven't edited it. I just linked it to your comment, so just edit it. Stop killing everything Dex :smalltongue:


Stuffy Doll uses Greater Teleport to get to you. Anticipate Teleport, it tries to teleport to you, and gets caught in a space/time fold. Oops.

Besides, there's all kinds of ways to stop Teleports. Forbiddance, that stone thingy, Dimension Lock... it's pretty trivial to be able to keep Stuffy Doll from getting to you.

It doesn't have to be near you to kill you, it is effectively shooting a mind bullet at you across infinite planes or wherever. It only teleports towards you to give you a better chance at killing it. The moment 2 rounds pass, you automatically die. So a Weirdstone, Forbiddance, or Anticipate Teleport can only hurt you really.

EDIT: V.7 is up and running. I'm curious how you'll get through this without your orbs :smallsmile:

[dextercorvia]

Having connection problems so I haven't edited it. I just linked it to your comment, so just edit it. Stop killing everything Dex :smalltongue:

Done with the first part. The second is more difficult. It's like Ruffles -- I bet you can't just kill one. :smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Having connection problems so I haven't edited it. I just linked it to your comment, so just edit it. Stop killing everything Dex :smalltongue:



It doesn't have to be near you to kill you, it is effectively shooting a mind bullet at you across infinite planes or wherever. It only teleports towards you to give you a better chance at killing it. The moment 2 rounds pass, you automatically die. So a Weirdstone, Forbiddance, or Anticipate Teleport can only hurt you really.

EDIT: V.7 is up and running. I'm curious how you'll get through this without your orbs :smallsmile:

I fail to see how the stuffy doll can kill me when it is locked in a space/time warp. If it ceases to exist for several days, it cannot kill me. I maintain that Anticipate Teleport negates the threat.

Furthermore, this is getting simply arbitrary and boring. Same old blunt-force attempt at a solution 'boost stats!' or 'IMMUNE!', when stats are irrelevant. It's the mechanics of the game you are trying to stop, which is a contradiction in terms.

Besides, just use Force Missile Mage to allow Magic Missile to bypass SR with the same infinite recursive spell trick. Done.

[Ulm11]

Does it normal AC equal it's touch AC? If it doesn't then wouldn't a d2 crusader kill it in one hit?

[The Glyphstone]

I fail to see how the stuffy doll can kill me when it is locked in a space/time warp. If it ceases to exist for several days, it cannot kill me. I maintain that Anticipate Teleport negates the threat.

Furthermore, this is getting simply arbitrary and boring. Same old blunt-force attempt at a solution 'boost stats!' or 'IMMUNE!', when stats are irrelevant. It's the mechanics of the game you are trying to stop, which is a contradiction in terms.

Besides, just use Force Missile Mage to allow Magic Missile to bypass SR with the same infinite recursive spell trick. Done.

Because strictly, it's not the Stuffy Doll that is killing you, it is the Curse of the Stuffy Doll that it lays on you immediately before attempting the Teleport. The Curse has already taken effect, so if you lock it in a space/time warp or temporarily erase it from reality, all that results in is you being unable to fulfill the two-round victory condition.

[ryu]

Is it immune to orbs of annihilation? Throw a portable hole into a bag of holding near it with magic?

[Arcanist]

I fail to see how the stuffy doll can kill me when it is locked in a space/time warp. If it ceases to exist for several days, it cannot kill me. I maintain that Anticipate Teleport negates the threat.

Think of it this way.

Turn 0: Psychic Pokemon #1 uses Future Sight on Flying Pokemon #2.
Turn 1: Flying pokemon #2 uses Whirlwind on Psychic Pokemon #1.
Turn 2: Flying pokemon #2 still takes the Future Sight attack and faints.

In this case, unless Psychic Pokemon #1 is K.O'd, Flying Pokemon #2 will still be K.O'd.

Hopefully this will make sense :smallsmile:


Furthermore, this is getting simply arbitrary and boring. Same old blunt-force attempt at a solution 'boost stats!' or 'IMMUNE!', when stats are irrelevant. It's the mechanics of the game you are trying to stop, which is a contradiction in terms.

Besides, just use Force Missile Mage to allow Magic Missile to bypass SR with the same infinite recursive spell trick. Done.

It's an increased difficulty challenge. Effectively at first it is incredibly easy, but slowly gets more annoying and hard. It gives the solver a light sense of accomplishment, like when you were in school and solved a problem that was giving you trouble for a while. You felt pretty good on the inside for a minute :smallsmile:

Originally, this was me looking for interesting tricks for spells (without bluntly putting it like so). Also for the current incarnation of Stuffy doll you have to beat it with 5 level spells or higher so Force Missile Mage and infinite Magic Missile shenanigans wouldn't exactly work on V.7

[Terumitsu]

Wouldn't you be able to bypass V.7 with This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13949753&postcount=62) but changing it to Orb of Sound where applicable and adding both Invisible Spell and Heighten spell for it all to fit in the same spell slot but bypass the Glove of Invulnerability?

Just tossing out a guess.

[Arcanist]

Wouldn't you be able to bypass V.7 with This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13949753&postcount=62) but changing it to Orb of Sound where applicable and adding both Invisible Spell and Heighten spell for it all to fit in the same spell slot but bypass the Glove of Invulnerability?

Just tossing out a guess.

... Shut up :smallannoyed: Yeah, I didn't notice that... I had to read it a 2nd time...

V.8 is up and ready.

[ryu]

Uh? What's the difference? If there is one can I still use a cantrip or telekinesis to throw a portable hole into a bag of holding from a distance?

[Terumitsu]

As above but with Transdimensional Spell. Arcane Thesis keeps it at the same spell slot.

I think that's all that needs to be done? Aside from a Quickened casting of True Seeing that is. Using the Cleric side for this part as it's only a level 5 spell for them so it's still valid albeit a level 9 slot. Someone else can refine that more if they care to.

[Darth_Versity]

V.8: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Continuous effect of Globe of Invulnerability, Ethereal. Status: Still standing.

Use Dextercovia's idea


Sorcerer//X

Need Arcane Thesis Orb of Force, Maximize Spell, Easy Metamagic Maximize, and Sanctum Spell

Round 1: Cast Greater Arcane Fusion containing X=Sanctum Greater Arcane Fusion(X,Y), and Y=Sanctum Maximized Orb of Force.

Each casting deals 60 points of force damage, no save, no SR, and hits on a nat 20. This continues until it is dead, and then I can choose something else, so the loop is stoppable.

Round 2: Drink a cup of tea.

Edited to avoid SR.

But in round 1 cast Swift Etherealness and then Antimagic Field to negate the Globe of Invulnerability effect. Then Arcane Fusion from outside the field. Orb of Force is conjuration and technically ignores Antimagic.

[Arcanist]

Uh? What's the difference? If there is one can I still use a cantrip or telekinesis to throw a portable hole into a bag of holding from a distance?

An Arrow of Destruction? eh... I'm not going to let that one fly, because... Well I'm not even sure it functions mechanically in D&D. Still a good idea though :smallsmile:

EDIT: Ack! Curses! Dex has created the Formula for success :smallamused:

I must think of something more, that makes this much more difficult... Hmm... :smallamused:

ooo... I think I have a wonderful Idea... *scribble*

[DaedalusMkV]

Uh? What's the difference? If there is one can I still use a cantrip or telekinesis to throw a portable hole into a bag of holding from a distance?

The difference is that Etherial stops Orb of Sound from being able to hit.

Apply the Interdimensional Spell metamagic. It's only +1, so it doesn't change the spell's level at all. Dead, in exactly the same way as the last two versions.

Next. :smallamused:

Edit: Ninja'd.

[TuggyNE]

V.8 should go down to prepending disjunction to e.g. Shneekey's infinite actions trick. (If I'm reading disjunction right, and the Will save only applies to objects caught in the burst.)

[ericgrau]

Wouldn't work. You cannot lower infinite spell resistance.
You can't lower spell immunity. You can voluntarily lower your own spell resistance as a standard action.

[The Glyphstone]

Anyone know a way to remove the saving throw from poisons? A dose of the Liquid Mortality positoxin would oneshot it, but it's Fort DC20 negates (affects undead).

[Darth_Versity]

EDIT: Ack! Curses! Dex has created the Formula for success :smallamused:

To be fair, the infinite Arcane Fusion loop is pretty well know. It was the first thing that came to my mind but Dex had already put it up before i'd even seen the thread.

[ryu]

I wish for an orb of annihilation for version 9. It COULD work... It's not in the spirit of the thread but it is theoretically possible depending on ruling.

[Arcanist]

The difference is that Etherial stops Orb of Sound from being able to hit.

Apply the Interdimensional Spell metamagic. It's only +1, so it doesn't change the spell's level at all. Dead, in exactly the same way as the last two versions.

Next. :smallamused:

Edit: Ninja'd.

I've got it now :smallamused:

Additional ability:
Karma (Su)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma, however If the Stuffy Doll were to get harmed by say falling off a cliff then only the Stuffy Doll would take damage.

:smalltongue:

EDIT: Sorry for not mentioning anything about the Sphere of Annihilation :smallfrown: If you can find a RAW (or RACSD) method of gaining a Sphere of Annihilation, by all means feel free to use it :smallbiggrin:

[ryu]

Same thing with the pact revival thing stacked.

Edit:
Wish, miracle, or if rule zero with pizza bribes. All within raw. Also combinations.

[Darth_Versity]

I've got it now :smallamused:

Additional ability:
Karma (Su)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

:smalltongue:

Same trick but alternate the 4th level spell between the Orb and Sanctum Spell Indomitability to always remain on 1 HP. :smalltongue:

[Terumitsu]

Well, one could teleport into the Tomb of Horrors with a Talisman of the Sphere and use the one in that one statue's mouth. That's the closest thing to RAW I can think of.

Also, Beat the Karma ability with the Level 3 cleric spell called Delay Death. And then infinite damage thing in the next round and then just use a heal spell of your choice

[ericgrau]

For version 8 version 9 (same tactic):
Archmage with planeshift spell like ability. Supernatural transformation feat to convert it to a supernatural ability. Supernatural abilities don't allow spell resistance.

Pact of return
Wait to die and come back
Keep planeshifting it to the positive energy plane until you roll a natural 20 and it rolls a natural 1
Wait several million rounds for it to die.

Because the damage does not come from me I am safe from stuffy doll karma.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I've got it now :smallamused:

Additional ability:
Karma (Su)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma, however If the Stuffy Doll were to get harmed by say falling off a cliff then only the Stuffy Doll would take damage.

:smalltongue:

EDIT: Sorry for not mentioning anything about the Sphere of Annihilation :smallfrown: If you can find a RAW (or RACSD) method of gaining a Sphere of Annihilation, by all means feel free to use it :smallbiggrin:

Take Leadership and get a cohort to do whatever kill-trick works.

[ryu]

Same thing with the pact revival thing stacked.

Edit:
Wish, miracle, or if rule zero with pizza bribes. All within raw. Also combinations.

[Arcanist]

Same thing with the pact revival thing stacked.

The only reason that still works is because I don't want to just to loldispelmagic everything... Hmm... I think I got something. :smallsmile:

[ryu]

People have already said get a cohort to do it.

[Darth_Versity]

The only reason that still works is because I don't want to just to loldispelmagic everything... Hmm... I think I got something. :smallsmile:

Whatever your problem... There's a wizard for that!*

:smalltongue:

*Please note that by wizard I am refering to Arcane Casters in general.

[Arcanist]

For version 8:
Archmage with planeshift spell like ability. Supernatural transformation feat to convert it to a supernatural ability. Supernatural abilities don't allow spell resistance.

Pact of return
Wait to die and come back
Keep planeshifting it to the positive energy plane until you roll a natural 20 and it rolls a natural 1
Wait several million rounds for it to die.

I actually like this one and find it quite entertaining. +1 cookie.


Take Leadership and get a cohort to do whatever kill-trick works.

You're ordering your Cohort to do something therefore you are indirectly dealing damage to the Stuffy Doll.


Same thing with the pact revival thing stacked.

Edit:
Wish, miracle, or if rule zero with pizza bribes. All within raw. Also combinations.

All of those are rule zero though :smallconfused: except one of them involves Pizza. You'd be better off going to the Tomb of Horror to get the Sphere and Talisman :smalltongue:

unfortunately you've trumped me playground, but the Stuffy Doll is a stubborn loser :smallamused: brb figured something out that can remove Pact of Return, while it making some moderate sense.

[ericgrau]

My tactic works on version 9 too because it's immune to retribution damage :smalltongue:. EDIT: oh, unless it works on indirect damage too.

[Darth_Versity]

brb figured something out that can remove Pact of Return, while it making some moderate sense.

Well like I said before, just alternate castings of Orb of Force with Sanctum Spell Indomitability in the infinite loop and you'll always remain on 1 HP.

[Arcanist]

Slight change to my above version 9 killer. All I have to do is planeshift myself to the positive energy plane and it will follow. Once its ability goes off and I revive I can leave.

Actually it only teleports to you once. It won't follow you any further after you have physical proof that it is hunting you down. Unless you live in the Positive Energy plane then... yeah :P

I'm not exactly sure on how Positive Energy Plane interacts with Undead since it specifically states for Undead that they're immune to all Fortitude saves unless it effects objects and since the Positive Energy Plane doesn't make rocks go nuclear... :smallconfused:

[DaedalusMkV]

The only reason that still works is because I don't want to just to loldispelmagic everything... Hmm... I think I got something. :smallsmile:

Wait... You made the main ability EX. Bwahaha. Time to destroy the very concept of this silliness.

The 9s are Psionics and Wizard.

Turn 1: Give silly Stuffy Doll the finger as a Move action. Polymorph Any Object self into Stuffy Doll. Duration is 20 minutes.
Turn 2: Activate Stuffy Doll curse targetting enemy. Quickened Time Hop, taking self out of time stream for 2 minutes.

At end of turn 4, enemy Stuffy Doll dies from your curse, because the duration is measured in the subjective time of the person who got cursed. You reappear in the same spot you left 20 minutes later, victorious.

[ryu]

Wouldn't you both die from that because the ability doesn't care if you're in timestop?

[Arcanist]

Purify (Su)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The Stuffy Doll, each round that it has it's curse on a creature immediately delivers a greater dispel magic and disjuction upon them.

UGH! I feel like using that is cheating :smallfrown: so V.10 will definitely be the last, unless requested to continue this...


Wait... You made the main ability EX. Bwahaha. Time to destroy the very concept of this silliness.

The 9s are Psionics and Wizard.

Turn 1: Give silly Stuffy Doll the finger as a Move action. Polymorph Any Object self into Stuffy Doll. Duration is 20 minutes.
Turn 2: Activate Stuffy Doll curse targetting enemy. Quickened Time Hop, taking self out of time stream for 2 minutes.

At end of turn 4, enemy Stuffy Doll dies from your curse, because the duration is measured in the subjective time of the person who got cursed. You reappear in the same spot you left 20 minutes later, victorious.

Archtypal Form prevents you from changing into the Stuffy Doll, and the Stuffy Doll curse doesn't care what time stream your in since it goes by 2 rounds for you.

[DaedalusMkV]

Wouldn't you both die from that because the ability doesn't care if you're in timestop?

Timestop is accelerated movement, basically. Time Hop actually hurls you forwards through the time stream as a wonky forwards-only version of time travel. You simply do not exist during that time, which means the timer isn't ticking. By the time you stop time travelling the stupid doll is dead and you've won.

Edit: Purify doesn't stop any of the combos. It just dispels any lingering effects on the caster, which doesn't help with the infinite damage loop using Indomitability or with my version, since PAO cannot be dispelled. So yeah. If you want it to automatically counterspell any spell cast, that's a different story. Also probably insurmountable without epic levels of cheese.

[Lonely Tylenol]

That has precisely nothing to do with spells. I'm pretty sure that's not what the OP wanted. Also, you seem to be overestimating your ability to deal with NI AC. You aren't touching Luck, Profane, Sacred, Insight or Deflection bonuses with that combo, and Mage Slayer only works against AC from spells or spell-like effects. A creature with an infinite innate or supernatural bonus of any of the above defeats you. That said, I'm not sure that it is killable with spells at this point. I mean, a Hulking Hurler could easily take it down in one hit, with a billion or so d6 of damage from throwing a dwarf star at it, in addition to your silly quasi-RAW d2 Crusader.

Quasi-RAW? What is "quasi-" about:

"Luck: When rolling for damage, treat any die roll result of 1 as 2, unless 1 is the maximum result possible."

?

I mentioned the Mage Slayer line RE: magical concealment (see: Pierce Magical Concealment), hence why I mentioned the Mage Slayer line.

The creature's AC was undefined, and assumed to be hittable, which is explicitly mentioned in the first words of my post. Obviously if the creature has NI of every bonus then Wraithstrike on a flat-footed enemy means comparatively little, but I thought the basic premise was that we *weren't* fighting Pun-Pun, just an immovable wall?

I don't get the harsh tone at all. Do you have a thorn in your side about the lack of spells? Your own method uses Diplomacy as a skill (and is actually not a working method, because Diplomacy doesn't affect mindless creatures), and mine uses Conjuration (healing) spells to fuel Imbued Healing, so... Hooray for hostility?

[Arcanist]

The creature's AC was undefined, and assumed to be hittable, which is explicitly mentioned in the first words of my post. Obviously if the creature has NI of every bonus then Wraithstrike on a flat-footed enemy means comparatively little, but I thought the basic premise was that we *weren't* fighting Pun-Pun, just an immovable wall?

I don't get the harsh tone at all. Do you have a thorn in your side about the lack of spells? Your own method uses Diplomacy as a skill (and is actually not a working method, because Diplomacy doesn't affect mindless creatures), and mine uses Conjuration (healing) spells to fuel Imbued Healing, so... Hooray for hostility?

Ehhh... I hate Wall type monsters... I prefer Monoliths, much cooler looking. It is immovable and can only move (via teleportation) when it places a curse on a creature. I would like to see a good healing barrage against an Undead Creature... That would most definitely be interesting... :smalltongue:


Edit: Purify doesn't stop any of the combos. It just dispels any lingering effects on the caster, which doesn't help with the infinite damage loop using Indomitability or with my version, since PAO cannot be dispelled. So yeah. If you want it to automatically counterspell any spell cast, that's a different story. Also probably insurmountable without epic levels of cheese.

Purify effectively removes Indomitablility. PAO can still very well be used, however you can change into the Stuffy Doll. I'd rather not just counterspell every spell, because that kills the entire point of the challenge. Stuffy Doll is supposed to be able to survive anything and everything, but possess very little ways of counterspelling your magic. I could just make it so that anything that has the Stuffy Doll curse on it constantly has an Anti-Magic field around it, but that would just be a "No".

Purify removes your buffs. Think of those boss fights where there Boss would just remove your buffs forcing you to rebuff and in some extreme cases killing you. I can't remember the name of the FF spell that does that right now :smallannoyed: but I think you get the point.

[DaedalusMkV]

Quasi-RAW? What is "quasi-" about:

"Luck: When rolling for damage, treat any die roll result of 1 as 2, unless 1 is the maximum result possible."

?

I mentioned the Mage Slayer line RE: magical concealment (see: Pierce Magical Concealment), hence why I mentioned the Mage Slayer line.

The creature's AC was undefined, and assumed to be hittable, which is explicitly mentioned in the first words of my post. Obviously if the creature has NI of every bonus then Wraithstrike on a flat-footed enemy means comparatively little, but I thought the basic premise was that we *weren't* fighting Pun-Pun, just an immovable wall?

I don't get the harsh tone at all. Do you have a thorn in your side about the lack of spells? Your own method uses Diplomacy as a skill (and is actually not a working method, because Diplomacy doesn't affect mindless creatures), and mine uses Conjuration (healing) spells to fuel Imbued Healing, so... Hooray for hostility?
Quasi-RAW because by RAW you never get to stop the attack. You just keep rolling damage 'till doomsday, the gamestate freezes and you break the system. There is no way to resolve your attack because you have no way of breaking the loop yourself. 1d2 Crusader does not work by RAW, and should not be by any other measure. It's one of my pet peeve tricks because it's so often misrepresented.

This thing never actually had magical concealment, but point. I assumed you meant to help bring down that AC.

I was just correcting your "always AC10" thing. You claimed that you could hit even infinite AC on a 10, I refuted that claim.

My method at least uses spells, as the OP requested. You submitted a martial build that uses a cleric level to access Cleric-specific abilities and never uses a spell whatsoever. Also, yes. Clearly my method at the time did not work because I forgot it was Mindless. Primarily because that's nonsense (Mindless creatures should not have the presence of mind to single out a target from across the multiverse), but whatever.

If my post sounded harsh, it's just because I was responding to very strong claims on your part (always successful, no chance of failure), and because you were using my least-favorite example of really bad RAW-lawyering. I don't have any issue with you at all.

[Arcanist]

Clearly my method at the time did not work because I forgot it was Mindless. Primarily because that's nonsense (Mindless creatures should not have the presence of mind to single out a target from across the multiverse), but whatever.

Even if the Stuffy Doll wasn't mindless it couldn't stop it's own curse from playing out even if it wanted to. I simply made it mindless so people wouldn't ask "Hey, why can't I just diplomacy it and tell it to not kill me?" :smallsmile:

[DaedalusMkV]

Even if the Stuffy Doll wasn't mindless it couldn't stop it's own curse from playing out even if it wanted to. I simply made it mindless so people wouldn't ask "Hey, why can't I just diplomacy it and tell it to not kill me?" :smallsmile:

That didn't matter. All the Diplomacy of my method did was allow me to get Share Pain on it so I could beat myself to its death with a whacking stick. The point was never to Diplomance it into being my friend, the point was to kill it with an arbitrarily large amound of unstoppable damage in a single round. The Diplomacy was just necessary to make it Willing.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Quasi-RAW because by RAW you never get to stop the attack. You just keep rolling damage 'till doomsday, the gamestate freezes and you break the system. There is no way to resolve your attack because you have no way of breaking the loop yourself. 1d2 Crusader does not work by RAW, and should not be by any other measure. It's one of my pet peeve tricks because it's so often misrepresented.

I do believe there is a rule that states that the player does not have to roll the dice if the character would automatically succeed (in this case, killing the creature as soon as they bypass the AC).

---

Anyway, for the monster's new abilities, just use one of the one-round tricks that doesn't require a swift action and use a Quickened Anti-Magic Field first. They are Su.

[Arcanist]

That didn't matter. All the Diplomacy of my method did was allow me to get Share Pain on it so I could beat myself to its death with a whacking stick. The point was never to Diplomance it into being my friend, the point was to kill it with an arbitrarily large amound of unstoppable damage in a single round. The Diplomacy was just necessary to make it Willing.

You must also understand that it also has Psionic Immunity (Were doing Psi-Magic transparency) so even then it couldn't take the share pain. So he'd be like "Sure, I'm willing" and then when you use it your're like "d00d wtf!?"

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Titan Gate Chain. I summon an arbitrary number of Titans in one turn and they will eventually beat you down in one round. Solar gate chain works too.

Also, Wish to Undo Misfortune. Stuffy Doll Curse averted.

[Endarire]

Spellguard of Silverymoon + transcend mortality to touch the thing. (Use surge of fortune if you so choose.) Round 2? Dismiss it.

And if you lose initiative? Celerity.

You. Win. No save. No SR. No hope. Nyah!

This trick was also used to auto-kill the Neutronium Golem (http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1337/61/1337618469836.png).

For this, I'd go Wizard5/Incantatrix4/Master Specialist1/Spellguard of Silverymoon5/Archmage1/Wyrm Wizard4. This gets me L9s @17, transcend mortality at L18, and surge of fortune @20. I could instead just UMD something or make an item to cast these spells, but that's one way I could do it all on my own. (Archmage is for Arcane Reach, BTW.)

[Arcanist]

Titan Gate Chain. I summon an arbitrary number of Titans in one turn and they will eventually beat you down in one round. Solar gate chain works too.

Also, Wish to Undo Misfortune. Stuffy Doll Curse averted.

I do like the chain summoning Idea, however Karma kicks in and you take an equal amount of damage.



Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

No roll is made for Stuffy Doll's Curse so you can't undo it. It's like wishing that Bob the fighter never walked down the block to pick up the last carton of milk, unless Bob made a roll for standing up off his recliner then I doubt you can undo that.


Spellguard of Silverymoon + transcend mortality to touch the thing. (Use surge of fortune if you so choose.) Round 2? Dismiss it.

You. Win. No save. No SR. No hope. Nyah!

Good Job, you killed V.10 without dealing any damage. I figured it would use something like Phoenix Fire and Spellguard, however Phoenix Fire doesn't work for this. Transcend Mortality works for this :smallsmile:

EDIT: Ah the Golem, Neutronium :smallamused: Lovely little critter ain't he?

[The Glyphstone]

I do like the chain summoning Idea, however Karma kicks in and you take an equal amount of damage.



No roll is made for Stuffy Doll's Curse so you can't undo it. It's like wishing that Bob the fighter never walked down the block to pick up the last carton of milk, unless Bob made a roll for standing up off his recliner then I doubt you can undo that.



Good Job, you killed V.10 without dealing any damage. I figured it would use something like Phoenix Fire and Spellguard, however Phoenix Fire doesn't work for this. Transcend Mortality works for this :smallsmile:

EDIT: Ah the Golem, Neutronium :smallamused: Lovely little critter ain't he?

I think I got something...

If you can get Time Regression (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeRegression.htm) at-will as a Psi-like ability (or another way to avoid the XP cost), you can delay Stuffy Doll's curse taking effect indefinitely at the cost of permanently looping the universe. I call it the Groundhog Day solution. Stuffy never dies, but neither do you.

[Arcanist]

I think I got something...

If you can get Time Regression (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeRegression.htm) at-will as a Psi-like ability (or another way to avoid the XP cost), you can delay Stuffy Doll's curse taking effect indefinitely at the cost of permanently looping the universe. I call it the Groundhog Day solution. Stuffy never dies, but neither do you.

ooo creative :smallbiggrin: my question is does time pass for you at all? Because if so then the curse kills you. For a minute I thought "Hmmm, could you time regress back to before it used it (The Curse)?"

[Raendyn]

a) How can something without Con score have regeneration?

b)Have an antimagic field and extraordinary spell aim to exclude yourself and then all instantaneous creation effects will work. This also takes care of the globe and makes you immune to dispell and DJ. so whatever killed v9 kills v10 with AMF and ESA

Now to a new trick.(too tired to put great thought effort in this but I think I'll do it.)

Be a theurge of erudite and wizard, being a changeling fills in the fluf pretty well.

STP variant opens a whole bunch of new ways to kill it, since psionics can deal sonic dmg on the fly.

The new trick is simple. Be a shaper, give your psicrystal all feats that increase UPD and all results save nat 1 will activate dordjes. with your money you can provide enough dordjes with powers tha deal sonic dmg enough to kill 1billion hp. and STP can give you any spell ina dordje, remember a dorje has no max spell lvl.(isnt there a feat that allows you to umd even on a nat 1? or reroll it?)

You cast synchronicity with this ready action:
you: I will cast synchronicity, my ready action is: after my psicrystal takes its standard action I use synchronicity again.
But your synchronicity also affects psicrystal which can make a ready action of its own.
crystal: I phew phew the enemy
you: again I sychronicity with same ready action.
crystal: phew phew
you : same
Crystal: Phew Phew
the dmg is not from you so Karma doesnt apply, even if we count crystal as part of yourself, then as a changeling wizard you take a few lvls in recaster and get extra spell delay death.

Also in case you are afraid of power points and etheralness:

Casting etherialness removes etheral problem, and starting with fission and affinity field can make sure you never run of of PP since your fission will cast bestow power in all it's standard action. with a lvl of archmage and mastery of shaping you can deal with your own AMF affecting your fission and affinity field.

Remember its many standard actions, only 1 turn, so you passed this problem too.

Also, Where/What is archetypal shape?

[Tar Palantir]

ooo creative :smallbiggrin: my question is does time pass for you at all? Because if so then the curse kills you. For a minute I thought "Hmmm, could you time regress back to before it used it (The Curse)?"

No, it rewinds everything for you as well (if you were injured and used Time Regression, the injury would vanish). The only thing you retain is memory of what happened in the alternate timeline round.

[Flickerdart]

a) How can something without Con score have regeneration?

b)Have an antimagic field and extraordinary spell aim to exclude yourself and then all instantaneous creation effects will work. This also takes care of the globe and makes you immune to dispell and DJ. so whatever killed v9 kills v10 with AMF and ESA

Now to a new trick.(too tired to put great thought effort in this but I think I'll do it.)

Be a theurge of erudite and wizard, being a changeling fills in the fluf pretty well.

STP variant opens a whole bunch of new ways to kill it, since psionics can deal sonic dmg on the fly.

The new trick is simple. Be a shaper, give your psicrystal all feats that increase UPD and all results save nat 1 will activate dordjes. with your money you can provide enough dordjes with powers tha deal sonic dmg enough to kill 1billion hp. and STP can give you any spell ina dordje, remember a dorje has no max spell lvl.(isnt there a feat that allows you to umd even on a nat 1? or reroll it?)

You cast synchronicity with this ready action:
you: I will cast synchronicity, my ready action is: after my psicrystal takes its standard action I use synchronicity again.
But your synchronicity also affects psicrystal which can make a ready action of its own.
crystal: I phew phew the enemy
you: again I sychronicity with same ready action.
crystal: phew phew
you : same
Crystal: Phew Phew
the dmg is not from you so Karma doesnt apply, even if we count crystal as part of yourself, then as a changeling wizard you take a few lvls in recaster and get extra spell delay death.

Also in case you are afraid of power points and etheralness:

Casting etherialness removes etheral problem, and starting with fission and affinity field can make sure you never run of of PP since your fission will cast bestow power in all it's standard action. with a lvl of archmage and mastery of shaping you can deal with your own AMF affecting your fission and affinity field.

Remember its many standard actions, only 1 turn, so you passed this problem too.

Also, Where/What is archetypal shape?
Your psicrystal has HP too, and will get blown up unless you mix Vigor in there somewhere.

[Chess435]

This thread reminds me of the Omnidroid from The Incredibles. :smallwink:

Also, since the Stuffy Doll ability is (Su), couldn't you just use a Transdimensional Antimagic Field to suppress it until the timer expired? :smallamused:

[Arcanist]

Wow, this is going to take a while...


a) How can something without Con score have regeneration?

Look at the Atropal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal). It is an Undead creature and possess regeneration. A Constitution score is not a pre-requisite for having regeneration.


b)Have an antimagic field and extraordinary spell aim to exclude yourself and then all instantaneous creation effects will work. This also takes care of the globe and makes you immune to dispell and DJ. so whatever killed v9 kills v10 with AMF and ESA

This has been pointed out I am still not entirely convinced on the argument that states that an Anti-magic field allows for orbs to be casting into it, but regardless, the Stuffy Doll is an incorporeal Undead meaning that it winks away the moment you surround it with an Anti-magic field. You are now stuck with the curse with no way of saving yourself, it's the same thing as preventing the creature from popping down on you. The creature doesn't kill you, it's curse does and to respond to the inevitable argument of "I cast remove curse", the Stuffy Doll's ability Stuffy Doll isn't exactly a curse it is in essence the Stuffy Doll using Future Sight on you (in gen V).


Now to a new trick.(too tired to put great thought effort in this but I think I'll do it.)

Be a theurge of erudite and wizard, being a changeling fills in the fluf pretty well.

STP variant opens a whole bunch of new ways to kill it, since psionics can deal sonic dmg on the fly.

You've discover a way to deal damage to the Stuffy Doll. Good job :smallsmile: now figure out a way to negate it's Karma without causing it to wink out of existance and peeing in your soup. :smallsmile:


The new trick is simple. Be a shaper, give your psicrystal all feats that increase UPD and all results save nat 1 will activate dordjes. with your money you can provide enough dordjes with powers tha deal sonic dmg enough to kill 1billion hp. and STP can give you any spell ina dordje, remember a dorje has no max spell lvl.(isnt there a feat that allows you to umd even on a nat 1? or reroll it?)

You cast synchronicity with this ready action:
you: I will cast synchronicity, my ready action is: after my psicrystal takes its standard action I use synchronicity again.
But your synchronicity also affects psicrystal which can make a ready action of its own.
crystal: I phew phew the enemy
you: again I sychronicity with same ready action.
crystal: phew phew
you : same
Crystal: Phew Phew
the dmg is not from you so Karma doesnt apply, even if we count crystal as part of yourself, then as a changeling wizard you take a few lvls in recaster and get extra spell delay death.

With Karma it doesn't actually have to come from you, all you have to do is be either directly or indirectly involved. Heres the thing, the moment your delay death wears off you die. Because effectively the Stuffy Doll is using Purify to remove your Delay death and finishing you with it's Curse.


Also, Where/What is archetypal shape?

Archetypal Shape is an Ex that the Sharn have. It makes it so that you cannot polymorph, shapechange or be polymorphied into a Sharn or in this case a Stuff Doll.


This thread reminds me of the Omnidroid from The Incredibles. :smallwink:

Heh... I'd like to see more threads like these... They're entertaining and force players to be a little bit more creative instead of using the standard BS that they have to


HAI GUIZ! I NED AN UB3R L337 BILD DAT LES ME PWN AL DE NUBZORZ @ MI TABL!


AMERUGURD! U SHULD PLAY A WIZZZURD! SO OORIGINL! DA PWN ALL DE NUUB NUBBS LOLOLLOLOLOL

No offense playground, but I see the same old "Help me optimize", DWK, Wizard Vs Chuck Norris thread at least twice a week and it's... meh, whatever... I'm just one forum go'er and complaining about it won't make it any better :smallannoyed:

[Lonely Tylenol]

Quasi-RAW because by RAW you never get to stop the attack. You just keep rolling damage 'till doomsday, the gamestate freezes and you break the system. There is no way to resolve your attack because you have no way of breaking the loop yourself. 1d2 Crusader does not work by RAW, and should not be by any other measure. It's one of my pet peeve tricks because it's so often misrepresented.

By definition, "infinity" is more than any defined number, even if it can never be resolved (but fitted into an algorithm, it wouldn't). Your own post involved breaking an infinite loop involving revolving hits, so you *know* that this can be circumvented.


This thing never actually had magical concealment, but point. I assumed you meant to help bring down that AC.

That was just for the inevitable "but what if it had concealment?" that I expected to follow.


I was just correcting your "always AC10" thing. You claimed that you could hit even infinite AC on a 10, I refuted that claim.

"Assumed to be hittable" precludes this. I assume from sentence 1 that this undead does not have random sacred, profane, luck bonuses, etc., because the version I fought explicitly listed none (just a DEX score of 1).


My method at least uses spells, as the OP requested. You submitted a martial build that uses a cleric level to access Cleric-specific abilities and never uses a spell whatsoever.

The first ten words of the benefit text of Imbued Healing are "Whenever you cast a lst-level or higher conjuration (healing) spell . . ." (counting "1st-level" as one word)... Which means that, by definition, I am required to cast a Conjuration (healing) spell for my combo to work.


Also, yes. Clearly my method at the time did not work because I forgot it was Mindless. Primarily because that's nonsense (Mindless creatures should not have the presence of mind to single out a target from across the multiverse), but whatever.

Mindless meat sacks should also not have arbitrarily high profane/sacred/luck/etc bonuses.


If my post sounded harsh, it's just because I was responding to very strong claims on your part (always successful, no chance of failure), and because you were using my least-favorite example of really bad RAW-lawyering. I don't have any issue with you at all.

I don't recall ever saying the former (I just checked; I didn't). As for the latter, this is clearly a TO thought experiment; what, exactly, were you expecting? Your very own example involved diplomancy to overcome SR/saves, Lightning Mace shenanigans, and infinite Share Pain loops to kill the thing. At what point did I cross the line into inexcusable?

EDIT: to Arcanist: you listed its touch AC... But what is its flat-footed? :smallbiggrin:

[TuggyNE]

Look at the Atropal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal). It is an Undead creature and possess regeneration. A Constitution score is not a pre-requisite for having regeneration.

Actually, it is:
A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

The Atropal breaks the rules, and arguably should be corrected.

[Arcanist]

Actually, it is:

The Atropal breaks the rules, and arguably should be corrected.

I shall use the Dragonwrought Kobold argument! "Well, since X defies this rule then it doesn't apply to all of them or any of them for that matter." :smallbiggrin:

but seriously, I have some egg on my face after that one :smallsmile: On a side note: Does a Zombie Tarrasque lose it's Regeneration? I mean the Zombie template specifically states that it keeps all of it's extraordinary abilities which Regeneration is... so... Well... crap... :smallconfused:

RAW vs RAW WHO WILL WIN!?

[dextercorvia]

I shall use the Dragonwrought Kobold argument! "Well, since X defies this rule then it doesn't apply to all of them or any of them for that matter." :smallbiggrin:

but seriously, I have some egg on my face after that one :smallsmile: On a side note: Does a Zombie Tarrasque lose it's Regeneration? I mean the Zombie template specifically states that it keeps all of it's extraordinary abilities which Regeneration is... so... Well... crap... :smallconfused:

RAW vs RAW WHO WILL WIN!?

Don't worry, there are a bunch of ways to break that 'rule'.

So, version 10? Is it still up?

Sorcerer//Wizard (with four levels of Dweomerkeeper)

Feats of Note: Leadership (Need a bunch of Squires of Legend(Reikhardt) -- 30 ought to do it. Arcane Thesis (Mage's Lucubration), Twin Spell, Sanctum Spell, Invisible Spell, Cooperative Spell, and Versatile Spellcaster.

Delay until after all of your followers, have gone, each bestowing another use of Supernatural Spell upon you. Yes, you can soak the Disjunction, and the GDM, since you have no active spells, and no magic items.

Use GAF loop to cast an arbitrary amount of Celerities (I think I use less than 100). Cast Twin Sanctum Invisible Cooperative Mage's Lucubration 60 times. You now have (at least 60 6th level spell slots).

Cast (using Versatile Spellcaster if you feel like it) 30 supernatural Avasculates. It auto passes the save, which means nothing. Each spell reduces its hp to half round down (this is not damage, and so is not returned). This reduces it to 0 hp, which kills it as an undead.

[TuggyNE]

On a side note: Does a Zombie Tarrasque lose it's Regeneration? I mean the Zombie template specifically states that it keeps all of it's extraordinary abilities which Regeneration is... so... Well... crap... :smallconfused:

In this specific case there's no problem; Regeneration does not "improve its melee or ranged attacks", so out it goes.

In general I'd say that a template indicating a large swath of abilities are retained when becoming undead/construct is more general than Regeneration saying it cannot be retained at Con -.


Edit: I thought of (and actually mentioned) avasculate, but isn't it actually a [death] effect, and therefore blocked by undead immunity?

[Arcanist]

Don't worry, there are a bunch of ways to break that 'rule'.

So, version 10? Is it still up?

Sorcerer//Wizard (with four levels of Dweomerkeeper)

Feats of Note: Leadership (Need a bunch of Squires of Legend(Reikhardt) -- 30 ought to do it. Arcane Thesis (Mage's Lucubration), Twin Spell, Sanctum Spell, Invisible Spell, Cooperative Spell, and Versatile Spellcaster.

Delay until after all of your followers, have gone, each bestowing another use of Supernatural Spell upon you. Yes, you can soak the Disjunction, and the GDM, since you have no active spells, and no magic items.

Use GAF loop to cast an arbitrary amount of Celerities (I think I use less than 100). Cast Twin Sanctum Invisible Cooperative Mage's Lucubration 60 times. You now have (at least 60 6th level spell slots).

Cast (using Versatile Spellcaster if you feel like it) 30 supernatural Avasculates. It auto passes the save, which means nothing. Each spell reduces its hp to half round down (this is not damage, and so is not returned). This reduces it to 0 hp, which kills it as an undead.

As an Undead it has flat out immunity to any effects of Avasculate since it doesn't effect an object. on that note, nah 10's been done for a while, I'm just suffering a little bit of a hole in this. I can't think of something to add to it that makes it harder to kill without adding a Divine Rank, thanks for adding more insight to this though... I have an idea, that I'd like to test on you though :smallsmile: *scribble*

EDIT: and yes Avasculate is a Death effect.

EDIT v2: V.11 is up and ready. I welcome you all to try and break the endless silence. :smallsmile:

[olentu]

As an Undead it has flat out immunity to any effects of Avasculate since it doesn't effect an object. on that note, nah 10's been done for a while, I'm just suffering a little bit of a hole in this. I can't think of something to add to it that makes it harder to kill without adding a Divine Rank, thanks for adding more insight to this though... I have an idea, that I'd like to test on you though :smallsmile: *scribble*

EDIT: and yes Avasculate is a Death effect.

EDIT v2: V.11 is up and ready. I welcome you all to try and break the endless silence. :smallsmile:

So previous method with sudden silent spell.

[Arcanist]

So previous method with sudden silent spell.

I derped~ :smalltongue:

*Scribble*

EDIT: Alright, forced teleportation is removed from Scruffy Doll. Meaning it doesn't be near you to warn you physically. Retroactively assume that you're character knows that the Scruffy Doll WILL kill you.

[The Glyphstone]

I derped~ :smalltongue:

*Scribble*

EDIT: Alright, forced teleportation is removed from Scruffy Doll. Meaning it doesn't be near you to warn you physically. Retroactively assume that you're character knows that the Scruffy Doll WILL kill you.

You really don't think we can squeeze in a Sudden/Metamagic Quickened Wish (or a normal Wish) for the Transport Travelers function (you to Stuffy Doll)?

[Chess435]

Do we retroactively know it's location? If not, we still might be able to get there with a carefully worded wish.

Edit: Ninja'd by Glyphstone.

[Arcanist]

You really don't think we can squeeze in a Sudden/Metamagic Quickened Wish (or a normal Wish) for the Transport Travelers function (you to Stuffy Doll)?

I think, I'm under-estimating the playground's power :smallconfused:

Alright, to hell with fairness. :smallamused:

One minute lemme pull out that sourcebook that was written by a bunch of monkeys with calculators and just had words that made sense put in later :smallamused: (I'm partially joking)

[Chess435]

I think, I'm under-estimating the playground's power :smallconfused:

Alright, to hell with fairness. :smallamused:

One minute lemme pull out that sourcebook that was written by a bunch of monkeys with calculators and just had words that made sense put in later :smallamused: (I'm partially joking)

Immortal's handbook? :smallbiggrin: Also, can we call it a win for the playground if the OP hits the character limit? :smalltongue:

[Arcanist]

Immortal's handbook? :smallbiggrin: Also, can we call it a win for the playground if the OP hits the character limit? :smalltongue:

Call it a win, when I just scoop and call it a day :smalltongue:


V.13: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain, Wish, Miracle and Limited Wish in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn). Status: Still Standing

Location: In a temple about 50miles away from the Spire on the Outlands.

Additional ability:
Stuffy Doll (Ex)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed.

Karma (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The Stuffy Doll, each round that it has it's curse on a creature immediately delivers a greater dispel magic and disjuction upon them.

Silence (Ex)
Silence surrounds the victim of the Stuffy Dolls curse to the point where it impedes the very fabric of reality. Victims of the Stuffy Doll ability are continuously surrounded by a silence effect. The silence last until the curse plays out entirely.

Try and kill this one :smallsmile:

[Chess435]

Replace Wish with Reality Revision to get you there. Also, you forgot to change the status for v12.


Edit: Nevermind, the Spire's (Su) ability negation effect prevents the doll from killing you in the first place, so it just beats itself.

[Arcanist]

Replace Wish with Reality Revision to get you there. Also, you forgot to change the status for v12.


Edit: Nevermind, the Spire's (Su) ability negation effect prevents the doll from killing you in the first place, so it just beats itself.

Look again. They're (Ex) now :smallsmile:

[Chess435]

Question: Can Planar Shepherd override the Spire's magic negation thingy?

[dextercorvia]

My previous Sorcerer sling Infinite Orbs of Sound with Attune Form? I might need Druid/Planar Shepherd on the other side.

[olentu]

My previous Sorcerer sling Infinite Orbs of Sound with Attune Form? I might need Druid/Planar Shepherd on the other side.

You could probably just use vestments of steady spellcasting. As I recall they let one ignore the magic trait of a plane and cast normally, except for dead magic.

[TuggyNE]

On another plane, round 1: shapeshift -> Chronotyryn, greater plane shift to an area 9ths work, optional move/swift actions (probably to determine location of target), teleportation circle pointing to the monster's area.
Round 2: infinite-spell abuse to summon a very great many monsters with wizard spellcasting (orb of sound, etc). Monsters move through and use standards to hit it.

Job done.

Edit: hmm... getting a good sonic spell is not quite as easy as force, but it's still not too hard.

Edit again: probably won't work at all for reasons I neglected.

[Chess435]

You could probably just use vestments of steady spellcasting. As I recall they let one ignore the magic trait of a plane and cast normally, except for dead magic.

Nope, those just give +5 to concentration checks.

[Chess435]

On another plane, round 1: shapeshift -> Chronotyryn, greater plane shift to an area 9ths work, optional move/swift actions (probably to determine location of target), teleportation circle pointing to the monster's area.
Round 2: infinite-spell abuse to summon a very great many monsters with cleric spellcasting (spiritual weapon) who move through and whack the target on natural 20s.

Job done.

The Astral Plane is cut off there, you'll need to UPD a scroll power stone of reality revision to get there, and that caps at 1 creature per ML.

[TuggyNE]

The Astral Plane is cut off there, you'll need to UPD a scroll of reality revision to get there, and that caps at 1 creature per ML.

My mistake. That's trickier then.

(I do wonder why a monster from the Immortals Handbook is hiding behind the skirts of the Lady of Pain, though....)

[Arcanist]

The Astral Plane is cut off there, you'll need to UPD a scroll of reality revision to get there, and that caps at 1 creature per ML.

Please note: that we're going with Psy-Magic Transparency :smallamused: You can reality revision or wish your way into the Temple if you really want, but... I welcome you to walk out alive :smallsmile:

[Chess435]

We'll work that out when we get there. The doll no longer has it's Globe of Invulnerability, and we have access to up a 4th level spell via Invoke Magic. Any ideas?

[TuggyNE]

Hmm, OK, plane-crossing mind bullets can go both ways. :smallyuk: I'm thinking love's pain abuse (and ability damage mitigation or some such) should do the job here, but a) I don't remember if it bypasses regeneration; b) not quite sure whether the Spire counts as antimagic field or not.

But Arcanist, I honestly think you're getting very close to the point of pure fiat.

[Arcanist]

Hmm, OK, plane-crossing mind bullets can go both ways. :smallyuk: I'm thinking love's pain abuse (and ability damage mitigation or some such) should do the job here, but a) I don't remember if it bypasses regeneration; b) not quite sure whether the Spire counts as antimagic field or not.

If you can complete it in 2 rounds, go right ahead. The Spire counts as... well the Spire... It negates everything it describes and not just magic. Thanks to the Spire, I can more or less drop a lot of the defenses I've created.


But Arcanist, I honestly think you're getting very close to the point of pure fiat.

I know, I know and it kills me a little :smallfrown: If this Scruffy Doll variant is defeated I will completely surrender :smallsmile:

[Chess435]

Limited Magic does not count as an AMF, otherwise we could just Initiate of Mystara around it.

[olentu]

Nope, those just give +5 to concentration checks.

Bah I meant vestments of steadfast spellcasting not steady spellcasting.

[Chess435]

Bah I meant vestments of steadfast spellcasting not steady spellcasting.

Can't seem to find the source for those.

[olentu]

Can't seem to find the source for those.

Planar handbook as I recall. Maybe manual of the planes but I would go with planar handbook as more likely.

[Chess435]

Planar handbook as I recall. Maybe manual of the planes but I would go with planar handbook as more likely.

Found it: Planar Handbook, Page 84. Allows wearer to ignore all Magic Traits of planes except for dead magic, so we can freely cast at the spire now. Throw in a Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken and you can Wish/Reality Revision in, Quickened Veil of Undeath, Delay Death, ludicrous Silent Spell Orb of Sonic spam loop, ????????, profit.

Game, set, Match. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Made it so you don't spend the next million or so years unconscious regenerating.

[Arcanist]

Found it: Planar Handbook, Page 84. Allows wearer to ignore all Magic Traits of planes except for dead magic, so we can freely cast at the spire now. Wish/Reality Revision in, ludicrous Silent Spell Orb of Sonic spam loop while shapechanged into something with regeneration, ????????, profit.

Game, set, Match. :smallbiggrin:

That seems so ladies and gentlemen. The Scruffy Doll has been defeated, however will this be the last well be seeing of this indomitable creature? Well that is for you ladies and gentlemen to decide :smallbiggrin:

With a few adjustments to the creature the challenge can indeed go on... However, I doubt you the playground is up to the task. It is late and I'm tired. If I see this thread still on the 1st page tomorrow when I get back, I'll gladly continue this challenge :smallsmile:

[Raendyn]

Look at the Atropal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal). It is an Undead creature and possess regeneration. A Constitution score is not a pre-requisite for having regeneration.

Regeneration has COM prereq. this monster is just a mistake written by someone without basic knowledge of the game.


This has been pointed out I am still not entirely convinced on the argument that states that an Anti-magic field allows for orbs to be casting into it, but regardless, the Stuffy Doll is an incorporeal Undead meaning that it winks away the moment you surround it with an Anti-magic field. You are now stuck with the curse with no way of saving yourself, it's the same thing as preventing the creature from popping down on you. The creature doesn't kill you, it's curse does and to respond to the inevitable argument of "I cast remove curse", the Stuffy Doll's ability Stuffy Doll isn't exactly a curse it is in essence the Stuffy Doll using Future Sight on you (in gen V).

Clarify pls? why it winks away while in AMF? Did I miss something?


You've discover a way to deal damage to the Stuffy Doll. Good job :smallsmile: now figure out a way to negate it's Karma without causing it to wink out of existance and peeing in your soup. :smallsmile:


With Karma it doesn't actually have to come from you, all you have to do is be either directly or indirectly involved. Heres the thing, the moment your delay death wears off you die. Because effectively the Stuffy Doll is using Purify to remove your Delay death and finishing you with it's Curse.

Even then, having my AMF around my while not affecting me, I just dont move close to the creature. This makes me immune to dispell and dJ, these spells cant affect anything inside AMF.
And you can cast any conjuration-Creation(or Metacreativity) effect with instantaneous duration outside an AMF and sent it inside the AMF. like orbs.

Also how would this 'regeneration" affect possitive/sacred dmg? after all its undead. ^ ^





Edit: Made it so you don't spend the next million or so years unconscious regenerating.

I was always thinking that regeneration just doubles your hitpoints.

since everything causes non-lethal dmg to you. But, after you have non-lethal dmg equal to your hit points you start taking lethal dmg as normal. So, if you have 100 hit points, taking 210 dmg = dead. aren't I corre

[Kansaschaser]

since everything causes non-lethal dmg to you. But, after you have non-lethal dmg equal to your hit points you start taking lethal dmg as normal. So, if you have 100 hit points, taking 210 dmg = dead. aren't I corre

Nope. There is no such rule in 3.5. At least, not that I've found so far. It might be a house rule that some people use. There are a lot of other systems that converts Non-lethal damage into real damage after a while, but not D&D 3.5.

Edit: I bet there are a lot of people trying to find the rule that converts Non-Lethal damage to "Real" damage. lol

[Arcanist]

Regeneration has a CON prereq. this monster is just a mistake written by someone without basic knowledge of the game.

And you know everything about everything in D&D, because you say so? :smallconfused: I'm going to try very hard to not insult you or offend you or attack you personally (It's this whole new thing I'm trying). Honestly, I can make the Stuffy doll anything really, because it can't possibly exist legally in a game of D&D. Essentially, it is a combination of factors that make it harder and harder to overcome. Like the Omnidroid from The Incredibles as someone in this very thread put it.


Clarify pls? why it winks away while in AMF? Did I miss something?


Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away.

Hope this clarifies :smallsmile:


Even then, having my AMF around my while not affecting me, I just dont move close to the creature. This makes me immune to dispell and dJ, these spells cant affect anything inside AMF.
And you can cast any conjuration-Creation(or Metacreativity) effect with instantaneous duration outside an AMF and sent it inside the AMF. like orbs.

Purify doesn't work like Anti-Magic field. Effectively it is an ability that removes your buffs and then disjoins your magical items. I could have bought that up against the Vestment of Steadfast Spellcasting, however everyone was tired so I just gave it to them :smallsmile:


Also how would this "regeneration" affect positive/sacred dmg? after all its undead. ^ ^

Simple. If it takes non-lethal damage from it. I could have made it like the Tarrasques regeneration where no matter what it, it took Non-lethal damage that it was immune to, however I always created a weakness in the Stuffy Doll. I could have made it to the point where the only way of killing it was to Touch it with Transcend Mortality and let it self-destruct, however that wouldn't have been fair.


I was always thinking that regeneration just doubles your hitpoints.

It's alright to think wrong and make stuff up some times :smallsmile: Hell, I just did it (Well, half of it) :smallbiggrin:


since everything causes non-lethal dmg to you. But, after you have non-lethal dmg equal to your hit points you start taking lethal dmg as normal. So, if you have 100 hit points, taking 210 dmg = dead. aren't I correct?

to quote Flickerdart.



[Citation Needed]
:smallsmile:

[Raendyn]

lots of stuff

Well I was away from books and too tired to search online books. thats why I asked clarification here. I never implied that I need clarification because I doubt what you wrote.

No I am not correct because I say so, I am correct because I read it in SRD. Tuggyne provided the quote in page 6.

The way you put the purify ability, I thought that as a free action it casts greater sidpell and DJ. both of these fail to work on my if I am in a antimagic field. Now that I got the ability as you had it in mind I get why it will hit me.

SRY about the non-lethal thing convertin gto lethal, it seems it is my dm's house rule or somethign similar, I never actually checked, cause i didn't care and it sounded reasonable. As I said I was away from books and my own pc.

Don't Worry, I can't be offended that easily, I was a master in offending others and its not that long ago that I stopped it. It just needs to imagine the best possible reason someone wrote what you read.
You can think
a)" he wrote this cause he is madafaka, noob that read 1 book only and it was done incorrectly, and at the same time he plays know-it-all'
or you can think that
b) ' someone missinformed this guy, I need to help him and convince him to kill the guys that planted all these sh1ts in his head."
or just
c) " he plays like 6-10 different RPG's and he got confused,

there's little effort needed to jump from (a), to (b), to (c). Try it if you really wanna stop the bad habbit, it helped me.

[dextercorvia]

No I am not correct because I say so, I am correct because I read it in SRD. Tuggyne provided the quote in page 6.


Let me help you. Tuggyne quoted the general rule. That is trumped by the specific rule that Atropals have no Con score, but have regeneration anyway. It might be an artifact left over from 3.0 (ELH was 3.0, but I skipped mainly from 2e to 3.5, so I'm not claiming to be an expert on it.)

That doesn't mean that the rule is worthless. It prevents (most) PC's from benefiting from Regeneration and an immunity to non-lethal damage at the same time.

Fun Fact: I believe after reading it that a creature with Monk levels can deal lethal damage to an Atropal, as it is in fact a living weapon (possibly even sentient).

[mattie_p]

You can think
a)" he wrote this cause he is madafaka, noob that read 1 book only and it was done incorrectly, and at the same time he plays know-it-all'
or you can think that
b) ' someone missinformed this guy, I need to help him and convince him to kill the guys that planted all these sh1ts in his head."
or just
c) " he plays like 6-10 different RPG's and he got confused,

there's little effort needed to jump from (a), to (b), to (c). Try it if you really wanna stop the bad habbit, it helped me.

Lots of other options in there, but this kinda covers the bases. Mostly we here on the Playground try for (c), sometimes we default to b or a.

Alternative for c is "guy is quoting dndwiki, which is satan incarnate, so he got confused."

[Arcanist]

Well I was away from books and too tired to search online books. thats why I asked clarification here. I never implied that I need clarification because I doubt what you wrote.

... kay :smallconfused: It's all good man :smallsmile:


No I am not correct because I say so, I am correct because I read it in SRD. Tuggyne provided the quote in page 6.

And here we have something that directly conflicts with the SRD while being in the SRD. The ELH even got erreta'd up to 3.5 ed and nothing was changed to the Atropal (Except for it's energy drain). It can be argued that...


Let me help you. Tuggyne quoted the general rule. That is trumped by the specific rule that Atropals have no Con score, but have regeneration anyway. It might be an artifact left over from 3.0 (ELH was 3.0, but I skipped mainly from 2e to 3.5, so I'm not claiming to be an expert on it.)

However any argument based on this is built on a foundation of salt and sand due the specific > general rule (or in reference, not exactly sure).


The way you put the purify ability, I thought that as a free action it casts greater sidpell and DJ. both of these fail to work on my if I am in a antimagic field. Now that I got the ability as you had it in mind I get why it will hit me.

The first time I mentioned Anti-Magic field for the Stuffy Doll was when I stated:


Purify effectively removes Indomitablility. PAO can still very well be used, however you can change into the Stuffy Doll. I'd rather not just counterspell every spell, because that kills the entire point of the challenge. Stuffy Doll is supposed to be able to survive anything and everything, but possess very little ways of counterspelling your magic. I could just make it so that anything that has the Stuffy Doll curse on it constantly has an Anti-Magic field around it, but that would just be a "No".

Not once did I actually apply it to the Stuffy Doll, I only mentioned it as an idea for improving it, however it was obviously rejected :smalltongue: meaning that Purify still triggers and dispels and then dj :smallsmile:


SRY about the non-lethal thing convertin gto lethal, it seems it is my dm's house rule or somethign similar, I never actually checked, cause i didn't care and it sounded reasonable. As I said I was away from books and my own pc.

Don't worry about it, my first time playing D&D my DM told me to roll d20's and ignore everything under 11 for my stats :smallbiggrin:


*snip*

I generally believe that either me or the other person is misinformed :smallsmile: regardless of the outcome someone learns something new.



Alternative for c is "guy is quoting dndwiki, which is satan incarnate, so he got confused."

I find those threads very hilarious :smalltongue: DnDwiki is effectively a collaboration of bad homebrew and misinformation.

[ericgrau]

Version 13:
Leadership.
Equip my army with disruption weapons. Weapon properties are not subject to spell resistance. They are subject to dispel and disjunction.
I approach the creature without my army. I die.
Then my army comes and keeps hitting it with disruption weapons until one of them rolls a 20 and the creature rolls a 1, destroying it.
Then my cohort revives me.

Oh unless it isn't subject to natural 1s on saves. Now I need a way around that. Hmm...

Version 13: (again!)
Leadership.
My army stays far away.
The creature kills me.
One of my minions brings in a mirror of opposition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition)
The creature's double kills the creature.
My cohort revives me.

[Venger]

for 9 and 13:

scry on monster, teleportation circle in jovocs with necklaces of natural attack to make their claws +1 ghost touch, and contingency an MD on them to nerf disjunction effect. buff them with delay death (doesn't need to be persisted, but can be) attack monster.

jovocs' retributive aura makes the monster take infinite damage. it dies.

[Arcanist]

Version 13:
Leadership.
Equip my army with disruption weapons. Weapon properties are not subject to spell resistance. They are subject to dispel and disjunction.
I approach the creature without my army. I die.
Then my army comes and keeps hitting it with disruption weapons until one of them rolls a 20 and the creature rolls a 1, destroying it.
Then my cohort revives me.

GJ. You found a flaw in it's design :smallsmile:

Oh unless it isn't subject to natural 1s on saves. Now I need a way around that. Hmm...[/QUOTE]


Version 13: (again!)
Leadership.
My army stays far away.
The creature kills me.
One of my minions brings in a mirror of opposition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition)
The creature's double kills the creature.
My cohort revives me.

Ooo another Flaw :smallamused:


for 9 and 13:

scry on monster, teleportation circle in jovocs with necklaces of natural attack to make their claws +1 ghost touch, and contingency an MD on them to nerf disjunction effect. buff them with delay death (doesn't need to be persisted, but can be) attack monster.

jovocs' retributive aura makes the monster take infinite damage. it dies.

All of this is done in less then 2 rounds... wah?

:smallbiggrin:Due to popular demand the Scruffy Doll has been resurrected! :smallbiggrin:

[Chess435]

What do you have in mind for v14?

[Arcanist]

What do you have in mind for v14?

Well I don't have to play fair anymore so now I can just apply things that would be completely bizarre. I've encountered my fair share of juggernauts in my time.

You'll see :smalltongue:

[dextercorvia]

Well, thanks for posting this. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Arcanist]

HELLO LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE PLAYGROUND! I welcome you to enter a competition that test your Pineal Gland. You see the Stuffy Doll is a sort of experiment that I want to start running where I throw a nearly invincible creature in front of you (or on another plane or wherever really) and you try your best to kill it to the best of your abilities. The fun part is that you get

Benefits:

Access to 2 spell list with 20th level casting (9th level spells)
Unlimited WBL
Complete and utter control over how you approach the matter
The Stuffy Doll is 100% immobile.
As with all Theoretical Optimization challenges DM's fiat does NOT exist.


However there have to be some challenges of course :smallbiggrin:

Challenges:

The Stuffy Doll has Infinite SR and can make Any Saving Throw no matter how absurdly high.
In 2 rounds the creature will immediately kill you with no saves, no SR and without question.
After each victory, the creature is improved in some way shape and form (The location, an additional ability, a change in Creature type, etc.)
Diplomacy won't work against this creature.


Failed Models 1-13 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13946483#post13946483)

I welcome you to challenge The Stuffy Doll Version 0.14-0.28

V.14: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from Force spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain, Wish, Miracle and Limited Wish in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Elder Evil. Status: Still Standing

Location: In a temple about 50miles away from the Spire on the Outlands.

Additional ability:
Stuffy Doll (Ex)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed. Creatures unfortunate to be cursed by the Stuffy Doll have there souls completely and utterly destroyed. Nothing is capable of returning them to life after this.

Karma (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The victim is subject to a Disjunction Spell and then in the exact same moment is subject to a Greater Dispel Magic. This ability activates each round whenever an action is possible (on both the Stuffy Dolls and the Victims turn).

Hall of Origins (Ex)
The Temple that houses the Monolith that is known as the Stuffy Doll houses a cruel secret. The Hall and all the creatures and contents are immune to all Divinations and Clairsentience effects, spells and powers for as long as it remains in the Hall.

Anathematic Secrecy
This malefic property shrouds an elder evil from discovery by divination spells of a divine origin.Any divine spell of the divination school automatically fails when used to ascertain information about an elder evil. Divination spells that are also arcane function normally if they are cast by a nondivine spellcaster. This ability is always active.

[Arcanist]

Well, thanks for posting this. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Please feel free to come to Round 2 if you'd like to continue :smallsmile:

Stuffy Doll Vs the Playground 14-28 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13957703#post13957703)

[dextercorvia]

Can you specify what exactly being so close to the spire does for those of us without the PlH?

[Jack_Simth]

Can you specify what exactly being so close to the spire does for those of us without the PlH?
Suppresses everything of note. No poisons, no spells, no psionics, no supernatural abilities, and even the abilities of Greater Deities are suppressed.

[dextercorvia]

Well then, use my NI Celerity trick from your home plane. Cast Sonorous Hum, followed by Gate (Portal Version, using Sonorous Hum to concentrate), and then Sanctum GAF spam Orbs of Force through the Portal. The orbs themselves are non-magical, and shouldn't be disrupted by planar conditions.

[olentu]

Considering that one is going to be rolling in on a wish anyway, is there any reason I am not seeing to keep one from bypassing the divination protection by wording the transport wish properly. Say by wishing to be transported to the location of the creature that has cast the curse.

[dextercorvia]

Considering that one is going to be rolling in on a wish anyway, is there any reason I am not seeing to keep one from bypassing the divination protection by wording the transport wish properly. Say by wishing to be transported to the location of the creature that has cast the curse.

The only reason I see, is not really wanting to be there to begin with. :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: One Thread, One Topic please.

[Arcanist]

Well then, use my NI Celerity trick from your home plane. Cast Sonorous Hum, followed by Gate (Portal Version, using Sonorous Hum to concentrate), and then Sanctum GAF spam Orbs of Force through the Portal. The orbs themselves are non-magical, and shouldn't be disrupted by planar conditions.

... I'm going to go ahead and ask the question of how that actually works? Pouring water through a Gate, I can understand, but throwing Orbs into a Gate is... debatable :smallconfused:

[Flickerdart]

... I'm going to go ahead and ask the question of how that actually works? Pouring water through a Gate, I can understand, but throwing Orbs into a Gate is... debatable :smallconfused:
Why would you make the exception for Orbs? As instantaneous conjurations, their products are as mundane as the water. Only, you know, still made of force.

[dextercorvia]

Flickerdart covered it.

I forgot to add Veil of Undeath and Shapechange into a Solar (before opening the gate). That gives me Immunity to Karma.

While I'm at it, I might as well defend against Purify. 10 levels of Dweomerkeeper will let my use Gate, Sonorous Hum, Veil of Undeath, and Shapechange as Su abilities, which makes them immune to dispel and disjoining. Celerity is instantaneous, so Purify doesn't touch my pending standard actions.

[Arcanist]

Why would you make the exception for Orbs? As instantaneous conjurations, their products are as mundane as the water. Only, you know, still made of force.

Alright fair enough :smallamused: I can see where people would believe that and I'm not very well in the mood to question or argue it.

So answer the question of how you know where the Stuffy Doll is? :smallconfused:

[Chess435]

I'm fairly certain my method for beating v.13 still works as long as you swap out the Orb of Sound for an Orb of Force.

Round 0: Have Vestments of Steadfast Spellcasting, Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken, and 2 Rings of Spell Battle to negate disjunction and GDM, and a Scarab of Invulnerability
Round 1:Carefully Worded Reality Revision to get you to the doll, as per the transport travelers clause, also bypassing the lack of the Astral Plane at the temple.
Round 2: Activate Scarab, Sanctum Greater Arcane Fusion+Sanctum Maximized Orb of Force Loop, do a little dance.

Edit: Missed the Hall of Origins thing on first read, give me a sec to get around that.

Edit 2: I'm gonna have to start breaking into some major cheese to pull this off.

[Arcanist]

I'm fairly certain my method for beating v.13 still works as long as you swap out the Orb of Sound for an Orb of Force.

Round 0: Have Vestments of Steadfast Spellcasting, Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken, and 2 Rings of Spell Battle to negate disjunction and GDM, and a Scarab of Invulnerability
Round 1:Carefully Worded Reality Revision to get you to the doll, as per the transport travelers clause, also bypassing the lack of the Astral Plane at the temple.
Round 2: Activate Scarab, Sanctum Greater Arcane Fusion+Sanctum Maximized Orb of Force Loop, do a little dance.

Edit: Missed the Hall of Origins thing on first read, give me a sec to get around that.

This actually reminded me to make Purify more definitive in it's action.

EDITED for better celerity in Purifys activation

[Chess435]

This should do the trick.


Round 1: Quickened Major Creation to make a large hunk of ice. Use Uncanny Forethought to create an Ice Assassin of the Stuffy Doll. (IIRC, Archetypal Form doesn't prevent this) Instruct it to use it's Stuffy Doll ability on the one that has cursed you.

Round 2: Time Hop for at least 2 rounds. Since time doesn't pass for you, you won't die until after your Ice Assassin'd Stuffy Doll's effect has resolved, at which point you are safe.

[Arcanist]

This should do the trick.


Round 1: Quickened Major Creation to make a large hunk of ice. Use Uncanny Forethought to create an Ice Assassin of the Stuffy Doll. (IIRC, Archetypal Form doesn't prevent this) Instruct it to use it's Stuffy Doll ability on the one that has cursed you.

Round 2: Time Hop for at least 2 rounds. Since time doesn't pass for you, you won't die until after your Ice Assassin'd Stuffy Doll's effect has resolved, at which point you are safe.

A Round passes for you regardless of time hoping. The Curse goes by your time and only your time. I think someone tried this before... :smalltongue:

Unless of course you can make the entire Multiverse stop for 2 rounds (12 seconds).

[olentu]

A Round passes for you regardless of time hoping. The Curse goes by your time and only your time. I think someone tried this before... :smalltongue:

Unless of course you can make the entire Multiverse stop for 2 rounds (12 seconds).

Ah but that is the trick, when one time hops from their point of view no time has passed while for everyone else time has passed. It is like a reverse time stop.

[TuggyNE]

[quote]Unless of course you can make the entire Multiverse stop for 2 rounds (12 seconds).

The point of time stop is, in fact, to make the entire multiverse stop for several rounds. That's ... what it does.

Time hop, as pointed out, does the reverse; it halts time for one or a few targets and allows the rest of the multiverse to continue unaffected.

One or the other of those has to work; you can't have your cake and eat it. :smalltongue:

[dextercorvia]

Alright fair enough :smallamused: I can see where people would believe that and I'm not very well in the mood to question or argue it.

So answer the question of how you know where the Stuffy Doll is? :smallconfused:

Gate is not a divination spell. But, it opens precisely at the point I desire. I choose for Gate to open in front of the creature that targeted me.

[dextercorvia]

Gate is not a divination spell. But, it opens precisely at the point I desire. I choose for Gate to open in front of the creature that targeted me.

I'll be nice. I need an ally of some kind, how about a Homonculus, or Familiar. I use Wish to send the ally to Stuffy Doll's location as olentu mentioned. And then I'll use Wish to bring him back. Then I can find out what my ally saw, including Stuffy Doll, and the Temple. (All of this is with my NI standard actions during the first round).

Now I can, without controversy, open the Gate to the location that I have seen.

However, I need a way to be immune to daze. I guess I'll blow the feats to get up to Mark of the Dauntless.

[Venger]

Round 1: Quickened Major Creation to make a large hunk of ice. Use Uncanny Forethought to create an Ice Assassin of the Stuffy Doll. (IIRC, Archetypal Form doesn't prevent this) Instruct it to use it's Stuffy Doll ability on the one that has cursed you

it doesn't prevent ice assassins/simulacra from being created.

[Arcanist]

Ah but that is the trick, when one time hops from their point of view no time has passed while for everyone else time has passed. It is like a reverse time stop.

So you're giving the enemy additional time...? I see, so you're throwing yourself into the future to a point where the Stuffy Doll already killed you (or couldn't because you stopped passing through time). Interesting :smallsmile:


The point of time stop is, in fact, to make the entire multiverse stop for several rounds. That's ... what it does.

Time hop, as pointed out, does the reverse; it halts time for one or a few targets and allows the rest of the multiverse to continue unaffected.

One or the other of those has to work; you can't have your cake and eat it. :smalltongue:

THAT IS NOT HOW TIME STOP WORKS! :smallfurious: ... *Calms down and sips tea* :smallredface: Pet peeve when I see people say that Time Stop legitimately stops Time... Time Stop just makes you move so fast that everything basically looks like it's not even moving.

I have actually had my cake and ate it... but some Robot she-witch lied about the cake once and I didn't get to eat it... :smallannoyed: ... Bitch...


I'll be nice. I need an ally of some kind, how about a Homonculus, or Familiar. I use Wish to send the ally to Stuffy Doll's location as olentu mentioned. And then I'll use Wish to bring him back. Then I can find out what my ally saw, including Stuffy Doll, and the Temple. (All of this is with my NI standard actions during the first round).

Now I can, without controversy, open the Gate to the location that I have seen.

However, I need a way to be immune to daze. I guess I'll blow the feats to get up to Mark of the Dauntless.

So... You're using 2 wishes (1 to send the familiar there and another to get it back so it can tell you what happened) So in essence you are using an entire round just to find out about it and then another to set up your infinite damage loop which is triggered by Karma and would thus kill you for doing it...

The thing about Ni infinite Celerity is that you actually have to end your turn... Unless of course your trick by passes that rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#immediateActions).


it doesn't prevent ice assassins/simulacra from being created.

Interesting. Not exactly sure how I can do that since being Immune to Ice Assassins is... confusing... I'll need time to think on how that is going to work out :smalltongue: (hell, as much as I hate it, I might have to whip out the Immortal's Handbook... I really hate that sourcebook...)

[Chess435]

A Round passes for you regardless of time hoping. The Curse goes by your time and only your time. I think someone tried this before... :smalltongue:

Unless of course you can make the entire Multiverse stop for 2 rounds (12 seconds).

Nope, no time passes for you at all while time hopping.


From the subject’s point of view, no time has passed at all.

[Arcanist]

Nope, no time passes for you at all while time hopping.

I caught myself on that :smallsmile:

Found a non-time consuming method of finding out how to cheat death? :smalltongue:

[dextercorvia]

So... You're using 2 wishes (1 to send the familiar there and another to get it back so it can tell you what happened) So in essence you are using an entire round just to find out about it and then another to set up your infinite damage loop which is triggered by Karma and would thus kill you for doing it...

The thing about Ni infinite Celerity is that you actually have to end your turn... Unless of course your trick by passes that rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#immediateActions).



I'm not using any immediate actions. Let me step you through it.

1st round begins.

Standard Action. Cast Greater Arcane Fusion(X=Celerity, Y1) where Yi=Sanctum GAF(X,Yi+1) if i<N, and True Strike if i=N.

I now have N standard actions left to perform, labelled S#

S1:Wish my familiar to Stuffy's location
S2:Wish my familiar back
S3:Supernatural Spell:Shapechange(Solar)
S4:Supernatural Spell:Veil of Undeath
S5:Supernatural Spell:Sonorous Hum
S6:Supernatural Spell:Gate (Portal Option - based on Telepathy with my familiar)
S7:GAF(X=Sanctum Maximized Orb of Force, Y=Sanctum GAF(X,Y)) where I switch Y to something innocuous after Stuffy is dead.

So, 7 is a lower bound for N.

Some time later... 1st Round Ends.

Edit: I am immune to Karma. I have Regeneration 20, and am immune to non-lethal damage.

[Chess435]

I expect we'll be seeing Cosmic String before Arcanist gives up. :smalltongue: Do note that if you delve into the Immortal's Handbook, I'm going to consider it fair game as well. :smallamused:

[Arcanist]

I'm not using any immediate actions. Let me step you through it.

1st round begins.

Standard Action. Cast Greater Arcane Fusion(X=Celerity, Y1) where Yi=Sanctum GAF(X,Yi+1) if i<N, and True Strike if i=N.

I now have N standard actions left to perform, labelled S#

S1:Wish my familiar to Stuffy's location
S2:Wish my familiar back
S3:Supernatural Spell:Shapechange(Solar)
S4:Supernatural Spell:Veil of Undeath
S5:Supernatural Spell:Sonorous Hum
S6:Supernatural Spell:Gate (Portal Option - based on Telepathy with my familiar)
S7:GAF(X=Sanctum Maximized Orb of Force, Y=Sanctum GAF(X,Y)) where I switch Y to something innocuous after Stuffy is dead.

So, 7 is a lower bound for N.

Some time later... 1st Round Ends.

Edit: I am immune to Karma. I have Regeneration 20, and am immune to non-lethal damage.

Well played :smallbiggrin:

Gimme a minute to set up Stuffy Doll V.15

[Arcanist]

V.14 challenge
HELLO LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE PLAYGROUND! I welcome you to enter a competition that test your Pineal Gland. You see the Stuffy Doll is a sort of experiment that I want to start running where I throw a nearly invincible creature in front of you (or on another plane or wherever really) and you try your best to kill it to the best of your abilities. The fun part is that you get

Benefits:

Access to 2 spell list with 20th level casting (9th level spells)
Unlimited WBL
Complete and utter control over how you approach the matter
The Stuffy Doll is 100% immobile.
As with all Theoretical Optimization challenges DM's fiat does NOT exist.


However there have to be some challenges of course :smallbiggrin:

Challenges:

The Stuffy Doll has Infinite SR and can make Any Saving Throw no matter how absurdly high.
In 2 rounds the creature will immediately kill you with no saves, no SR and without question.
After each victory, the creature is improved in some way shape and form (The location, an additional ability, a change in Creature type, etc.)
Diplomacy won't work against this creature.


Failed Models 1-13 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13946483#post13946483)

I welcome you to challenge The Stuffy Doll Version 0.14-0.28

V.14: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from Force spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain, Wish, Miracle and Limited Wish in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Elder Evil. Status: Blinded by Limitless Celerity and Crushed by sheer force.

Location: In a temple about 50miles away from the Spire on the Outlands.

Additional ability:
Stuffy Doll (Ex)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed. Creatures unfortunate to be cursed by the Stuffy Doll have there souls completely and utterly destroyed. Nothing is capable of returning them to life after this.

Karma (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The victim is subject to a Disjunction Spell and then in the exact same moment is subject to a Greater Dispel Magic. This ability activates each round whenever an action is possible (on both the Stuffy Dolls and the Victims turn).

Hall of Origins (Ex)
The Temple that houses the Monolith that is known as the Stuffy Doll houses a cruel secret. The Hall and all the creatures and contents are immune to all Divinations and Clairsentience effects, spells and powers for as long as it remains in the Hall.

Anathematic Secrecy
This malefic property shrouds an elder evil from discovery by divination spells of a divine origin.Any divine spell of the divination school automatically fails when used to ascertain information about an elder evil. Divination spells that are also arcane function normally if they are cast by a nondivine spellcaster. This ability is always active.

HELLO LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE PLAYGROUND! I welcome you to enter a competition that test your Pineal Gland. You see the Stuffy Doll is a sort of experiment that I want to start running where I throw a nearly invincible creature in front of you (or on another plane or wherever really) and you try your best to kill it to the best of your abilities. The fun part is that you get

Benefits:

Access to 2 spell list with 20th level casting (9th level spells)
Unlimited WBL
Complete and utter control over how you approach the matter
The Stuffy Doll is 100% immobile.
As with all Theoretical Optimization challenges DM's fiat does NOT exist.


However there have to be some challenges of course :smallbiggrin:

Challenges:

The Stuffy Doll has Infinite SR and can make Any Saving Throw no matter how absurdly high.
In 2 rounds the creature will immediately kill you with no saves, no SR and without question.
After each victory, the creature is improved in some way shape and form (The location, an additional ability, a change in Creature type, etc.)
Diplomacy won't work against this creature.


Failed Models 1-13 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13946483#post13946483)

I welcome you to challenge The Stuffy Doll Version 0.14-0.28

V.15:


Stuffy Doll [Monolith V.15]

Size/Type: Huge Undead (Incorporeal)
Hit Dice: 84,000,000d12 (1,000,000,000HP)
Initiative: -5
Speed: 0ft.
Armor Class: 5,300 (-2 size, -5 dex, +5,297 unnamed), touch 5,300, Flat-Footed 5,300
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+8
Attack: +0
Full Attack: +0
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10ft.
Special Attacks: Stuffy Doll, Purify, Karma
Special Qualities: Hall of Origins, Anathematic Secrecy, Spell Immunity, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration, Immunity to Ability damage/drain, Wish, Reality Revision, Miracle and Limited Wish, Transcended Resurrection-Evolution, Archetypal Shape, Elder Evil Immunities
Saves: Fort: +∞ Ref: +∞ Will: +∞
Abilities: Str - , Dex 1, Con 1, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: None
Feats: None
Environment: Hall of Origins [50 miles from the Spire on the Outlands]
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: ∞
Treasure: Hall of Origins (Magical Location)
Alignment: Always True Neutral
Advancement: N/A
Level Adjustment: N/A

Transcended Resurrection-Evolution (Ex)
This is the Stuffy Dolls most powerful and important ability. This abilities allows the Stuffy Doll to reform in the Hall of Origin once every 1,000 years, however the Stuffy Doll "learns" from it's previous errors and becomes stronger and stronger each time [Dungeon Master (Game Master) or "Challenge giver" applies a new ability to each incarnation of the Stuffy Doll]. This ability also allows it to extend its "consciousness" outward into Infinity (everything) and target a single creature with its Stuffy Doll ability.

Stuffy Doll (Ex)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed. Creatures unfortunate to be cursed by the Stuffy Doll have there souls completely and utterly destroyed. Nothing is capable of returning them to life after this.

Karma (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

The Damage dealt by Karma is Divine damage and bypasses Regeneration.

Purify (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The victim is subject to a Disjunction Spell and then in the exact same moment is subject to a Greater Dispel Magic. This ability activates each round whenever an action is possible as an immediate action (on both the Stuffy Dolls and the Victims turn).

Hall of Origins (Ex)
The Temple that houses the Monolith that is known as the Stuffy Doll houses a cruel secret. The Hall and all the creatures and contents are immune to all Divinations and Clairsentience effects, spells and powers for as long as it remains in the Hall. Inside the Temple there is also a book that list all things that are absolute truths in creation. Anything not listed in this book simply cannot harm the Stuffy Doll, for it knows that it does not exist. Simulacrums and Ice Assassins based on the Stuffy Doll always turn on their creators and kill them and once they've completed the task, they self-destruct dealing 1d10 damage/HD of the original creature to all creatures within 5ft.

Anathematic Secrecy
This malefic property shrouds an elder evil from discovery by divination spells of a divine origin.Any divine spell of the divination school automatically fails when used to ascertain information about an elder evil. Divination spells that are also arcane function normally if they are cast by a nondivine spellcaster. This ability is always active.

Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the Stuffy Doll. The Stuffy Doll regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the Stuffy Doll fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The Stuffy Doll is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.

The Stuffy Doll can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.

If the Stuffy Doll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

Status: Still Standing

[Chess435]

Pretty sure my Ice Assassin/Time Hop trick still works.

Edit: I always seem to miss stuff on the first readthrough....

[olentu]

Pretty sure my Ice Assassin/Time Hop trick still works.

Presumably the whole, all ice assassins and simulacra turn on their creator and kill them is supposed to take care of that. But that is not the really devious part. The sneaky thing is that the game gets stuck in an infinite series of disjunctions and dispels making it impossible to resolve either characters turn.

[Deophaun]

Iron Heart Surge the curse.

Done.

[TuggyNE]

THAT IS NOT HOW TIME STOP WORKS! :smallfurious: ... *Calms down and sips tea* :smallredface: Pet peeve when I see people say that Time Stop legitimately stops Time... Time Stop just makes you move so fast that everything basically looks like it's not even moving.

My apologies for misrepresenting the spell; however, there is little or no functional difference between "Timestream A accelerates massively relative to Timestream B for a few seconds of A's time" and "Timestream B decelerates massively relative to Timestream A for a few seconds of A's time". (In other words, saying time stop stalls time is not really correct; it does, however, either massively slow down the multiverse or massively speed up local time, and there's essentially no way to tell those apart.)


As far as the latest version goes... Stuffy Doll is now incapable of killing itself, I believe, because it claims "immunity to wish, miracle, and limited wish" as well as "Regeneration (a la Big T)", which requires wish or miracle to kill. In other words, it's fiat invulnerable (and therefore can only be avoided by time travel abuse).


Iron Heart Surge the curse.

Done.

Although this might work, if the Curse is adjudged to have a duration. :smalltongue:

[Kazyan]

Hall of Origins prevents the Ice Assassin + Time Hop trick, but if you replace the Ice Assassin with a Gated and properly instructed Hagunemnon (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hagunemnon), it still works. The Hagunemnon uses Alter Shape to mimic the Stuffy Doll ability, you Time Hop, you come back to hoist petard and a slightly bored monster.

[Deophaun]

Hall of Origins prevents the Ice Assassin + Time Hop trick, but if you replace the Ice Assassin with a Gated and properly instructed Hagunemnon (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hagunemnon), it still works. The Hagunemnon uses Alter Shape to mimic the Stuffy Doll ability, you Time Hop, you come back to hoist petard and a slightly bored monster.
I believe Archetypal Shape prevents the Hagunemnon from copying the Stuffy Doll, which is why the Ice Assassin was needed.

[Lonely Tylenol]

V.15: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (Ala Big-T), Immunity to Ability damage/drain, Wish, Miracle and Limited Wish in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Elder Evil. Status: Still Standing

You still haven't told me its flat-footed AC. :smallamused:

Is the "automatically pass all saves and SR checks" contingent on its being undead, or any other properties of this monster, at all?

[Kazyan]

Archetypal Shape...the wording on that is hard to find, but I had hoped a Hagunemnon's partial-form stuff would get around it.

V15 is a tough nut to crack.

[Deophaun]

Archetypal Shape is in the Sharn entry in Monsters of Faerun. The "anything approximating it" clause would seem to catch the partial-form of the Hagunemnon.

[Fable Wright]

Question on the Stuffy doll: How is it undead and have Regeneration at the same time? Last time I checked, you lose regeneration if you don't have a Con score...

Relevant text from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration):

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

[Chess435]

After making the stuffy doll, if you went Celerity+Time Hop immediately, it wouldn't have the chance to turn on you, so wouldn't it take the chance to destroy it's duplicate still? Just speculating here.

[Chess435]

Question on the Stuffy doll: How is it undead and have Regeneration at the same time? Last time I checked, you lose regeneration if you don't have a Con score...

Relevant text from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration):

The rules allow specific exceptions, i.e. the Atropal.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea...

Touch AC
Flat footed AC
Flat Footed Touch AC?

[Arcanist]

You still haven't told me its flat-footed AC. :smallamused:


Yea...

Touch AC
Flat footed AC
Flat Footed Touch AC?

I swear you guys are hounds for details... I like that... :smallamused:

EDITED TO APPLY STATED OUT AC.


Is the "automatically pass all saves and SR checks" contingent on its being undead, or any other properties of this monster, at all?

It passes all saves and has infinite SR. It being Undead is just to add more immunity and to make it so that it can't heal itself, as you ask more and more questions I'll offer more responses. Eventually I'll have to stat this monster out (might do that for the next version or this one if nobody kills it in the next 10 minutes).

STUFFY DOLL NOW ENTIRELY STATED OUT.

[Fable Wright]

I think I may have killed it...

The Dweomer Keeper class grants Supernatural Spell, which allows the caster that uses it to cast it at a caster level equal to their HD. (Quoth the SRD: "Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.") This can be used to kill the Stuffy Doll.

Be a Wizard (Elven Generalist Domain w/Alacritous Cogitation Versatile Spellcaster) 1/Cleric 4/Dweomerkeeper 4/Wyrm Wizard 2 (Adding Holy Word to Wizard list)/Bard 9, with a feat to grant it action points and Initiate of Mystra. Here's how it works: The Wizard starts out with a Silent Unfettered Heroism, uses a Supernatural (applied via action point) Time Stop, and spends an action point to get it back. In the time stop, he casts another Silent Unfettered Heroism on himself, and then uses Inspire Greatness on himself using his action point for the round. Next round, he uses Supernatural (via AP) Time Stop, and spends an action point to get it back. Repeat the loop an arbitrary number of times. While the competence bonuses and the temporary HP do not stack, you still get extra HD for all purposes. At the end of the loop, you wait for Time Stop to end, Wish yourself to the Stuffy Doll's location, and then you use Supernatural Holy Word at a caster level over 9000 times greater than the Stuffy Doll's HP. This is not a death effect, and it bypasses the Tarrasque's regeneration because it does not allow a saving throw. The Stuffy Doll dies.

If this doesn't work based on the phrasing of Supernatural Spell ("The spell functions as it normally would", possibly meaning that the CL is determined as a regular spell), an alternative build is a Cleric/Wizard/Dweomerkeeper/Wild Mage//Nomad with Thought Bottle, Initiate of Mystra and Aura of Chaos. Here's how it works:

Round 1. You use Temporal Acceleration to activate Thought Bottle and reset his XP, and then Accelerate again to Reality Revision yourself right next to the Stuffy Doll. You try out a Supernatural Holy Word, boosting the CL with Wild Mage. If you roll a 6 to increase their bonus, you get to add another 6, and so on. If this gets up to the Stuffy Doll's HD+10, the stuffy doll dies on resolution. If it doesn't, you chuck the Thought Bottle out of Disjunction range.

Round 2. If the doll ain't dead, Miracle yourself out, Temporal Acceleration to Time Regression to Round 1, and try again. Your XP never goes down, and eventually, you will roll enough consecutive sixes to kill the doll. It may take a while, but it all passes in the blink of an eye to you and the observers.

[dextercorvia]

I think I may have killed it...

The Dweomer Keeper class grants Supernatural Spell, which allows the caster that uses it to cast it at a caster level equal to their HD. (Quoth the SRD: "Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.") This can be used to kill the Stuffy Doll.

Be a Wizard (Elven Generalist Domain w/Alacritous Cogitation Versatile Spellcaster) 4/Cleric 1/Dweomerkeeper 4/Wyrm Wizard 2 (Adding Holy Word to Wizard list)/Bard 9, with a feat to grant it action points. Here's how it works: The Wizard starts out with a Silent Unfettered Heroism, uses a Supernatural (applied via action point) Time Stop, and spends an action point to get it back. In the time stop, he casts another Silent Unfettered Heroism on himself, and then uses Inspire Greatness on himself using his action point for the round. Next round, he uses Supernatural (via AP) Time Stop, and spends an action point to get it back. Repeat the loop an arbitrary number of times. While the competence bonuses and the temporary HP do not stack, you still get extra HD for all purposes. At the end of the loop, you wait for Time Stop to end, and then you use Supernatural Holy Word at a caster level over 9000 times greater than the Stuffy Doll's HP. This is not a death effect, and it bypasses the Tarrasque's regeneration because it does not allow a saving throw. The Stuffy Doll dies.

If this doesn't work based on the phrasing of Supernatural Spell ("The spell functions as it normally would", possibly meaning that the CL is determined as a regular spell), an alternative build is a Cleric/Wizard/Dweomerkeeper/Wild Mage//Nomad with Thought Bottle and Aura of Chaos. Here's how it works:

Round 1. The character uses Temporal Acceleration to activate Thought Bottle and reset his XP. He tries out a Supernatural Holy Word, boosting the CL with Wild Mage. If they roll a 6 to increase their bonus, they get to add another 6, and so on. If this gets up to the Stuffy Doll's HD+10, the stuffy doll dies on resolution. If it doesn't, he chucks the Thought Bottle out of Disjunction range.

Round 2. If the doll ain't dead, Time Regression to Round 1, and try again. Your XP never goes down, and eventually, you will roll enough consecutive sixes to kill the doll. It may take a while, but it all passes in the blink of an eye to you and the observers.

Both of these scenarios fail due to more than two rounds of subjective time passing for the subject of the Curse.

[Fable Wright]

You're a Theurge with access to dual 9's (select your 2 spell list). You are faced with a creature that has infinite Spell Resistance and automatically succeeds on all saving throws (other then this it is vulnerable). In 2 rounds it will immediately kill you. How do you kill it first using your spells/powers?

I see no mention of subjective time, just the passage of actual rounds. Was something left out of the OP? :smallconfused:

[dextercorvia]

I see no mention of subjective time, just the passage of actual rounds. Was something left out of the OP? :smallconfused:

He has clarified the ability. If two rounds pass for you, you are dead.

[Arcanist]

I see no mention of subjective time, just the passage of actual rounds. Was something left out of the OP? :smallconfused:

I did neglect to mention subjective time towards the victim (since I've mentioned it time and time again when people mention Time Stop.)

As far as the stuffy doll is concerned a million turns could pass by. As long as the victim goes through 2 turns it dies automatically, no save, no SR, no questions asked :smalltongue:

[Lonely Tylenol]

Does anybody know how to make True Resurrection SR: No, or eliminate the need for a SR roll for the casting of a spell?

Alternatively, to Arcanist: are we required to use spells? If I come up with a build that uses no spells from a list, am I allowed to use it?

[Arcanist]

Does anybody know how to make True Resurrection SR: No, or eliminate the need for a SR roll for the casting of a spell?

Alternatively, to Arcanist: are we required to use spells? If I come up with a build that uses no spells from a list, am I allowed to use it?

No requirement on spells. I simply allow you access to them...

[ryu]

Something tells me this is going to be disgusting. I love it!

[Lonely Tylenol]

No requirement on spells. I simply allow you access to them...

OK. You say that this new version has immunity to Wish, and regeneration as a tarrasque; as tuggyne already stated, that makes this creature impervious to any form of death, ever, because the tarrasque can only be killed by Wishing it away when it has taken more than 10 + its max HP nonlethal damage (and all damage is converted to nonlethal damage). Am I to assume that this is the case, and the creature is thus unkillable, or is it specifically not immune to the trait of Wish that allows you to Wish it away when its damage cap has been reached?

[dextercorvia]

Does anybody know how to make True Resurrection SR: No, or eliminate the need for a SR roll for the casting of a spell?

Alternatively, to Arcanist: are we required to use spells? If I come up with a build that uses no spells from a list, am I allowed to use it?

Supernatural Spell (Dweomerkeeper) will remove SR from True Ressurection.


OK. You say that this new version has immunity to Wish, and regeneration as a tarrasque; as tuggyne already stated, that makes this creature impervious to any form of death, ever, because the tarrasque can only be killed by Wishing it away when it has taken more than 10 + its max HP nonlethal damage (and all damage is converted to nonlethal damage). Am I to assume that this is the case, and the creature is thus unkillable, or is it specifically not immune to the trait of Wish that allows you to Wish it away when its damage cap has been reached?

What's more, as an undead, it is immune to non-lethal damage. :smallbiggrin:

It is possible though.

Edit: I'm going to try a different tactic this time.

Round 1: Time Regression (this undoes the placement of Stuffy Doll)

Round 0: Shroud of Undeath (made persistent with Metamagic Effect)

As Stuffy Doll is mindless, it is now forced to ignore me, and choose someone else today. :smallwink:

[NM020110]

Hmmm...I can think of one way to effectively remove it's ability to attack me. From there, things are rather simple...


Round 1: Curse declared on me, silence is activated, and I am disjunctioned. I take a free action to speak, using a non-verbal language, to an ice assassin which I have made of myself prior to the curse's activation.

"I have been made subject to a curse, to die in twelve seconds subjective time. See that the entity responsible is destroyed, then free me. You have access to as many resources as are necessary."

I then take a standard action to cast silenced sanctum imprisonment on myself, suspending the passage of time for me (preventing the curse from finishing). Purify will fire every round, to no effect. The stuffy doll has designated its curse upon me, and so it can't target anything else.

I'm away from my books at the moment, so I won't be going too far into the killing of it.

Round "I don't even care": The Ice Assassin uses its unlimited supply of wealth to hire a spellcaster with the epic spellcasting feat to develop and cast a spell to kill the stuffy doll.
Round "I don't even care"+2: The spellcaster uses the chain-gated casters called by the Ice Assassin to cast the epic spell. The stuffy doll dies due to epic magic.
Round "I don't even care"+4: The Ice Assassin casts freedom on me.


If no epic spellcaster is available for hire from anywhere, then the Ice Assassin will take an apprentice and train him/her/it using summoned monsters until said apprentice is an epic spellcaster.


That should be sufficient to destroy the doll, regardless of defenses.

Disclaimer: I didn't spend very much time on this, so there may be a hole in the strategy.