Full BAB Class for Rogue/Assassin?

[khilendel]

Hi all, I'm pretty new to DND 3.5e - so please excuse the newbie question!

I'm looking through my options to find a full BAB class so I can get 16 BAB by 20. So far it looks like I will end up doing Rogue(5)/Assasssin(8)/Full BAB class (7).

I've been looking in to classes available, but there are just a staggering amount available to a 5 rogue/8 assassin combo - can someone advise me of a good class that has full BAB, and possibly high hp/cool abilities for a rogue?

[Novawurmson]

Ranger is a common choice; Warblade opens up a lot of interesting possibilities.

[Medic!]

I'd second the Warblade...or if you really wanna keep things simple, Sneak Attack Fighter =D

Warblade would give you some INT synergy, some extra damage in most situations, and maneuvers and stances to go nuts with (the counters from DM especially) and a d12 hit-die and some bonus feats that aren't bad for free feats. At 20th level you'd pick up Battle Cunning for +INT bonus to damage on flanked or flat-footed opponents. Icing on top of the cake.

Sneak Attack Fighter would give you...well...more sneak attack :smallwink:

[Diovid]

Ranger with a couple of variants such as Champion of the Wild (Complete Champion), Distracting Attack (PHB II), the 3rd Shadow Sword substitution level (Champions of Valor) and the Cityscape variant abilities (found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)) could be nice.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ranger is the best option if you want to keep up Assassin-ey skills, it has spot/listen, hide/move silently tumble (if you use the Skilled City dweller ACF) and search/disable device( Trap Expert ACF from Dungeonscape) and 6+int skill points with a minimum of 8 skillpoints per level (I assume you have at least 14 int for Assassin spells).

Wildshape Ranger (UA) also gives you limited Wildshape (Small and medium shapes only) so you won't get incredibly useful combat shapes (though I think you are right in the range for fleshraker); but you have tons of utility forms to escape after an assassination. You are in the highest tower of castle? Bam you are now a dire eagle flying away. Crowed city market? Dire-Rat form, feat hall? You are now a dog, you get the idea.

[Garagos]

You may want to take a look at the Daring Outlaw feat as well. Allows you to take Swashbuckler levels and still advance your Sneak Attack damage, if that is something you're interested in doing. I forget which book its in, but its one of the Completes (Warrior, Adventurer, or Scoundrel).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Rogue 5/ Assassin 8/ Sneak Attack Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) 5/ Rogue 2

For an Assassin build in general, I'd prefer a Spellthief 1/ Ardent 4/ Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) 6/ Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) 9, with Mind Cripple and Substitute Powers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a).

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Another bare-bones approach is Swashbuckler 4 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x)/Rogue Y with Daring Outlaw (Complete Scoundrel). Assassin does skimp you on the feat's bonuses, but it's one way to tack on sneak attack to a full BAB class.

Somewhere, there's a list of all classes with good BAB and sneak attack. My Google-fu can't find it, but I do know of the Dread Commando (Heroes of Battle, Sudden Strike). You could also slap on a Swordsage dip for Assassin's stance (+2d6) and Shadow Blade (Dex to damage, see text).

[eggs]

Warblade (ToB) patches the Assassin's weak points really efficiently (providing swift movement, dramatically improving Fort and Will saves and giving extra attacks if you want them). It doesn't have sneak attack, but I'd strongly recommend it.

Ninja of the Cresent Moon (S&F) gives some very neat benefits like Improved Evasion, a no-save silence effect and Monk AC (you'd probably have it anyway if you meet NotCM's prereqs, but whatever), on top of full sneak attack and BA.

There are a bunch of other full BA/sneak attack classes (off my head, Dread Pirate, Nightsong Enforcer, SA Fighter, Peerless Archer, Crimson Scourge, Blackguard, Ronin, but if you google Surreal's Lists of Stuff, there are pretty definitely more), but I'd probably go with one of those two.

[Morbis Meh]

If you have a lenient DM may I suggest: Ghost faced killer from Complete Adventurer? It has some fun fluff and has some cool albeit somewhat weak features. If it is a low op campaign then I recommend it for it's entertaining fluff :smallsmile:

[Person_Man]

Iterative attacks are a fairly inefficient way of adding extra attacks. There's not much difference in your average damage output between having 3 attacks at 15/10/5 then their is between 16/11/6/1, because the probability of hitting with that last attack is miniscule). You may wish to review this list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595), which gives you plenty of other options.

You also might want to consider Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) and/or Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) (using Psychic Rogue, Psychic Warrior, or Psion as a base class). Either would be stronger and would give you more options compared to Rogue/Assassin.

[Tr011]

Rokugan Campaign Setting: Ninja.

[Barlen]

For a melee rogue

Rogue 4 / Swashbuckler 3 / Invisible blade 5 / Assassin 8

Bab 17, Sneak attack 11d6

You will need daring outlaw at 6 of course. Also the feat requirements on invisible blade are notoriously wrong. They should be Two weapon fighting (at least), Weapon Finesse (most likely), and they already have weapon focus dagger. Go with Kukris for high crits.

[The Random NPC]

For a melee rogue

Rogue 4 / Swashbuckler 3 / Invisible blade 5 / Assassin 8

Bab 17, Sneak attack 11d6

You will need daring outlaw at 6 of course. Also the feat requirements on invisible blade are notoriously wrong. They should be Two weapon fighting (at least), Weapon Finesse (most likely), and they already have weapon focus dagger. Go with Kukris for high crits.

Why are you taking 4 levels of Rogue? If it's for Uncanny Dodge, Assassin 2 grants that. If it's for saves or BAB, another level of Assassin grants the same progression.

[LeshLush]

Ninja of the Cresent Moon (S&F) gives some very neat benefits like Improved Evasion, a no-save silence effect and Monk AC (you'd probably have it anyway if you meet NotCM's prereqs, but whatever), on top of full sneak attack and BA.
To read the Ninja of the Crescent Moon errata is to cry.

[ThiagoMartell]

Nightsong Enforcer springs to mind.

[HunterOfJello]

The Rogue Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233)would likely be handy for you. It has lots of good information in it.


I would take Rogue up to level 3, but stop there or after 2. There are so many other options out there. Consider taking a few levels of Shadow Thief of Amn. It doesn't get full BAB, but it gets a lot of nice benefits including bonus feats.

Also consider Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b). You get a slower sneak attack progression but gain so much more instead. The powers really make up for the loss.

~

As far as Full BAB classes and Prestige Classes go, you have many options.

Ranger, Fighter, and Warblade are your main options base class-wise. Mystic Ranger with Sword of the Arcane Order is a very good option. They get a faster spell progression and can cast Wizard spells. One good thing about Warblade is that they get better maneuvers for having levels in other classes. If you have 13 levels already then you can start grabbing maneuvers of up to 4th level when you take your first Warblade level at 14.

[ThiagoMartell]

Rogue 4 is needed for penetrating strike, so...

[The Random NPC]

Rogue 4 is needed for penetrating strike, so...

Well than good news! Rogue 3 is needed for penetrating strike, you trade Trap Sense for it.

[Azoth]

I am still a fan of Rogue4/Ranger2/Dread Commando5/Nightsong Enforcer9.

19BAB, tons of skills, decent sneak attack, sudden strike (for what its worth), some passive abilities. All around good assin and guerilla warfare fighter. With light armor though and mostly low end hit dice (d6 and d8) you are a bit squishy.

[Lortharian Duin]

I used
Ranger 2/Rogue 3(penetrating strike ACF)/Assassin 8/ X

Nightsong Enforcer has full BAB, but I went further Ranger with Shadow Sword ACF.

You can dip Cloistered Cleric worshiping some god with Travel Domain to exchange it for Travel Devotion feat... there are so many goodies. You don't even need full BAB class. Invest in movement + full attack.

Barbarian 1 can give you pounce + trade Rage for Whirling Frenzy ACF for extra attack.

[Seharvepernfan]

Were I you, I'd go with ranger. Possibly urban ranger if that's allowed, and depending on your build.

If ToB is allowed and available, you'd probably be just fine with warblade as well, but your skills/sneak attack/etc. wouldn't get any better.