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View Full Version : Need Help Nerfing a Dungeon



Ksheep
2012-09-26, 03:13 PM
I have recently sent my party on a fairly simple quest: clear out an old abandoned mine which is currently overrun with monsters. It seemed like a fairly straightforward thing, and they happily accepted. However, it turned out to be anything BUT easy, for you see, the monsters in question were kobolds… devious, cunning kobolds. Yes, they are in effect facing Tucker's Kobolds.

So far, they have killed off 3 of the kobolds, while they have encountered around 20 of the 30-some-odd I had planned, and the party is just about fed up with them and their traps. While they do have a rogue in the party (a kobold that defected), he isn't doing much trap searching because most of the traps are appearing during combat, and the kobolds are engaging in hit-and-run tactics, focusing on running whenever they get hit. Granted, most hits will take them down, but they seem quite tricky targets, despite being about 5 levels lower than the party.

As it stands, the party is more or less fed up, but they are less than half-way through and nowhere near completing their quest. What can I do to make it easier for them without completely throwing the tactics that have already been set up out the window? I would like to keep the tactics, as it wouldn't make sense for the kobolds to change from a very successful set of tactics to simply running up and hitting them with sticks. Also, should I nerf it, or just keep it as is (or even add more devious tricks on top)?

If you'd like to know, the kobolds are kobold paragon 3, fighter (2 or 3), with shot on the run, and not much else. Due to their slight build, they are able to run into cracks in the wall that feed into smaller tunnels that parallel the main tunnels, and they use these to ambush as well as for quick retreats.

The party consists of a rogue, fighter, healing cleric, summoner cleric, sorcerer, and duskblade of ~10th level.

BowStreetRunner
2012-09-26, 04:30 PM
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

If things are getting out of hand, I often like to introduce a 3rd party to the equation. One that is not actually allied with the PCs, but is working against the same opponents. This can give the diplomacy-skilled PCs a workout, and once the two 'allied' forces deal with the common threat, they can always turn on the PCs for added fun! :smallbiggrin:

only1doug
2012-09-26, 04:51 PM
A few ideas for you, use some or all if you wish.


Link them the Tuckers kobolds quotes and let them know how much better they are doing than tuckers group did.

Remember that terrain and traps influence the CR of the encounter, anything that genuinely threatens the party is worth some xp to them, so do give them xp for facing the kobolds.

Let them know that there aren't unlimited numbers of kobolds, they will be able to reach the end if they persevere.

Kobolds aren't stupid, if they are losing (already down 3 out of 30, that's bad news for them) they might negotiate (once anyway) "you go, leave our caves and not come back.... if you come back we stop playing nice and kill you all".

Azoth
2012-09-26, 06:45 PM
Personally, I love the tucker's kobold route. I use it alot, but if PCs aren't used to it or expecting it, they can get quite pissy when these little pissants are wrecking their world and making them look like chumps. I personally salute you for waking them up to the world of tactical enemies and terrain advantages.

If you aren't worried about them quiting the game, I would suggest introducing false security. Let them get through a few corridors with only the traps in their way. This way they think the kobolds are scared and on the run. Then at a really bad trap intersection, murder hole archers and pikes through the ceiling! BWAHAHAHA!

Seriously though, don't do that unless you want something heavy thrown at you. Building up paranoia or feelings of safety is fine, but don't full tilt ambush them into them into the ground. PCs hate that.

Ksheep
2012-09-26, 08:05 PM
Hmm… a number of good ideas so far. Gonna be tough to choose which route to go now. Could very easily do a combination of these, if I really wanted to.

I'm kinda tempted to go the paranoia route now, ending with a standoff in a large-ish room. After they take out a few more of them, have them try to negotiate, claiming that they will leave the mines and find a new home if the party lets them free. The party has already negotiated similar deals, so I'm fairly sure they'll accept.

However, as an added twist, I'm thinking make the kobolds release a "pet" of theirs (some medium-high level beast) on their way out, just to mess with the party some more.

Thoughts on this, or further suggestions of other routes I could take?

Azoth
2012-09-26, 08:27 PM
I love the pet idea. Maybe an earth elemental that was sealed in a metal case? Let their kobold corpses in the box too. Best to let them see corpses, wonder wtf?, then get a rock fist to the face! Sorry if that. Is harsh, but I love giving baddies terrain advantage considering PCs will have action economy.