Epic gestalt help?

[Harry]

Hey guys, my Dm said next game we are gaining full gestalt levels, my question is, what should I get? Here's my build.

wizard 6/incatnatrix 10/hathran 1/archmage 2/tainted scholar 1/cancer mage 1/ur priest (dead god variety) 3/dweomerkeeper 7/mystic theurge 9.

with the initiate ofmystra feat, heretic of the faith feat (seemed like a good idea) and the ritual of alignment (evil)

And with festering anger.

So guys what should I do with these extra 40 levels?

[Silva Stormrage]

Check out some of these homebrew prestige classes. A lot are incredibly overpowered (Though its freaking level 40 gestalt I think the campaign will survive)

I would suggest getting some psionics in that. Spell To Power Erudite is ludicrously powerful. Maybe some artificer so you can craft items by yourself? Though epic items take forever to craft :smallsigh:

[TheMooch]

factorum and warblade come to mind for action abuse and int synergy

[Harry]

So something like factotum 20/STP erudite 19/warblade 1?

[Jack_Simth]

Hey guys, my Dm said next game we are gaining full gestalt levels, my question is, what should I get? Here's my build.

wizard 6/incatnatrix 10/hathran 1/archmage 2/tainted scholar 1/cancer mage 1/ur priest (dead god variety) 3/dweomerkeeper 7/mystic theurge 9.

with the initiate ofmystra feat, heretic of the faith feat (seemed like a good idea) and the ritual of alignment (evil)

And with festering anger.

So guys what should I do with these extra 40 levels?
Anything that grants passive boosts or bonus feats. If you can get LA on that side, that'd be particularly tasty. When it comes down to it, what restrictions are you working under?

[*.*.*.*]

Seconding some Factotum, the ability to automatically bypass SR and DR in Epic is amazing. Not to mention, the utility of taking action economy out back and shooting it.

[Rubik]

What about factotum 11/spell-to-power erudite 18/metamind 4/ardent 1/metamind 6?

The factotum is so you can completely ignore DR, SR, and PR, as well as +Int to everything and extra standard actions (and all the other goodies). The erudite is for manifesting wherewithal. The first four levels of metamind advance erudite, and the psywar and last six levels of metamind (which advance ardent) are for more power points. Metamind in specific is so you can get font of power, which you can then extend indefinitely with Temporal Reiteration. Of course, you could go with three levels in illithid savant instead and eat the brain of a metamind (or a simulacrum of one, anyway).

[Harry]

According to my Dm I have no restriction. Hmm that actaully sounds quite nice Rubik, I may very well choose that. Oh one more question guys I'm allowed to buy off LA, what's a good template?

[Silva Stormrage]

Lets see, if you can buy off Lich Completely that might be worth it. The phalactery is quite useful epic levels where you can defend it really well. (And looking at your character sheet you are going to have a lot of enemies). Phernic and Voidmind give good bonuses but your DM might force you to have the illithid who controlled you still alive in which case don't go illithid.

If you go lich remember to be created by a dread necromancer with corpse crafter at a desecrated altar.

[Rubik]

Hmm. On second thought, you might wanna skip the ardent and just keep pushing erudite. You won't need extra pp if you have infinite already, and a boosted ML would be great for boosting your powers.

[Harry]

Huh lich would be good, only problem I see is turn/rebuke undead, which I am sure there is a way to gain immunity against.

So my build will be,

Lich wizard 6/incatnatrix 10/hathran 1/archmage 2/tainted scholar 1/cancer mage 1/ur priest (dead god variety) 3/dweomerkeeper 7/mystic theurge 9//factotum 11/spell-to-power erudite 19/metamind 10? :smallbiggrin:

[Hirax]

If you have 40 levels to play with, you're gonna want master transmogrofist in there somewhere. Take your favorite shapechange form. Now you may pick any extraordinary ability or movement mode, among other things, from another good shapechange form, and give that ability to the form you're currently in. So you could be a chronotyryn and add regeneration (sonic) from crystalline troll, then cast energy immunity (sonic) and be immune to damage, while still having all of a chronotyryn's awesome abilities.

[satorian]

How about a campaign journal? I've always been curious as to how ludicrously high level stuff like this actually plays out.

[Harry]

Hmm hirac I really don't see any room for it......Oh and satorian I kinda can't, DM says he wants to make it a book......(or at least post it online somewhere) it's really quite fun.

[Jack_Simth]

According to my Dm I have no restriction. Hmm that actaully sounds quite nice Rubik, I may very well choose that. Oh one more question guys I'm allowed to buy off LA, what's a good template?

LA buyoff, in Gestalt, is a trap - especially when you're suddenly getting 40 levels. Seriously - anything more than 2 or 3 levels of it actually means you're further behind than you would have been if you'd had actually fully soaked the LA - and as D&D is built around specialists, this means you're significantly behind. So instead, you put the LA on one side.

How much cheese do you want? The Paragon Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) template (Epic Level Handbook) is +11 LA (not listed directly - the Paragon Mind Flayer is listed as being ECL 26 on page 155, and the Mind Flayer's [without the Paragon template] is ECL 15 as per the Monster Manual page 187). The Phaerimm (Lost Empires of Phaerun) are really handy in that they cast Sorcerer spells as spell-like abilities... based on their hit dice (so a Hatchling, ECL 2 or 3, depending on how closely you read how a critter with 1 RHD works) means you'd have 40th level Sorcerous casting as spell-like abilities (no XP, material, focus, verbal, or somatic components). Add Ghost on top of that (LA+5), and make sure you've got Wish. Then Wish up a simulacrum of an arbitrary creature (the piece of the critter to duplicate is one of the material components... which is ignored as a spell-like), and use ghost Malevolence on that. If you do go the Ghost route, however, make sure to pick up a transformational class or PrC - you don't want to be left with the undead type, makes you too vulnerable to certain things, like turning (get Life Ward from ...was it Libris Mortis or Spell Compendium?), rebuking (Soulfire Armor property from the Book of Exalted Deeds - Death Ward won't do it unless you find a way to make yourself count as a living target for a bit), and certain PrC features that only affect undead (Hunter of the Dead's True Death, I'm looking at you!).

At level 40, there's also ways to have Wish as an at-will supernatural ability (no cost) even with just class levels.

So how much cheese do you want on your build?

[hex0]

Although if you are a Vampire and you think the +8 LA sucks (pun intended.), then consider what you get for adding Vampire Lord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) on top of it for no additional LA.

[Oxydeur]

Why stop at the lich template ? You are f***ing EPIC, go Demi-lich !


+ DV + 9 to AC
+ DV to touch attack
8 save-or-die death-ward-proof per day
Summon Monster I to IX, Greater Dispel Magic, Harm, Telekinesis (and some)... AT-WILL
Greate Planar Ally 2/day
Magic Immunity (except 3 spells)
Cold and sonic immunities and resist fire, acid and sonic 20
DR 30/-
+ 10 to INT, SAG and CHA


Listed NPE : 33 = 21(level) + 4(lich) +8 (demi-lich)

Expensive, but really great features.

[dantiesilva]

Though a bit off what everyone else is suggesting I would go with at the very least 20 levels of the Arbitor Homebrew.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12154375#post12154375

That is the link to it.
At level 20 this is what you gain from it

15/10/5 BAB

Saves all +9

Spells up to 6th level

All allies in 100ft. gain +5 to AC and attack rolls (this includes yourself)
+10 bonus added onto whatever spell or ability he moves, this includes damage reduction, speed,miss chance, etc. all as a swift action (example cast mage armor grants +4, he moves it now it grants +14) +10ft. to movement

Shared knowledge is one of my favorites, say for some reason you have a +15 in spot or search, you can take a -15 to that score for x amounts of turns and grant your allies a +15 bonus on their spot checks or whatever skill you so choose.

Can see spells and find out what beneficial things they have on them, now remember your ability from up top, you can steal your enemies bonuses and move them as well. So the enemy that has immunity to damage, now all your allies have it and he does not. And with your 4th level ability you can target four enemies at once.

All your allies in 40ft can not role under a 8 on any dice and all enemies can not role over a 13, meaning if played right you can never get hit.

All eneimes within 100ft take -5 to AC attack rolls damage and -10ft to movement

You can cast Daze on anyone then move it onto the enemy with them having to roll a 22+your wis modifier or take whatever effect you choose to move

Parity is all around good whatever one you choose

That pesky save or die spell, well now you laugh at it and say no you spent your spell and it did nothing, you can do this 10 a day

Your fighting a god you say, no problem now he is a human and you are the god with the turning the table ability.

This is what I think you should do for at least 20 levels to gain all this and more. Hope it helps you

[legomaster00156]

Hmm hirac I really don't see any room for it......Oh and satorian I kinda can't, DM says he wants to make it a book......(or at least post it online somewhere) it's really quite fun.
Unless he can make the antics of the PC's looks almost sane, writing a book based on a D&D campaign is not a very good idea.

[Hirax]

If you're going to be using temporal reiteration, I'd argue master transmogrofist is going to be of more use to you than incantatrix, because you'll never need to extend or persist anything. I also think you have 3 levels too many in factotum, cunning breach is a waste of time, spell resistance is already a trivial barrier. And in fact, I would only recommend 3 levels of factotum in this case, you're going to be swimming in actions already between being shapechanged into a chronotyryn and having schism and fission running at all times. I'd drop 8 levels of factotum, 14 levels of psion, and put in 22 levels into another prestige class instead, as you'll get all 10 levels of the class, and then 4 epic feats for taking the prestige class into epic levels. Or just max out 2 prestige classes and dip into a couple more.

edit: even swiftblade would be better than incantatrix here, hard to beat (EX) 50% miss chance, int to initiative (twice, thanks to factotum), (EX) freedom of movement, an extra standard action for you and your fission copy, and some bonus to your movement speed too.

[Brock Samson]

Considering the craziness of all this....

Let me suggest the simple 3 level prestige class Metaphysical Spellshaper from Book of Erotic Fantasy. -2 to all metamagic costs, and you can sack ability score points to metamagic, which can then be regained a number of ways.

[Harry]

jack get as much cheese as you can get but I can not just change my race.

I kinda hate vampires so....no.

Oh and incantatrix is also for more metamagic, I like irresistible unname......

Hmm what would be a good psionic prestige class then?

[legomaster00156]

Considering the craziness of all this....

Let me suggest the simple 3 level prestige class Metaphysical Spellshaper from Book of Erotic Fantasy. -2 to all metamagic costs, and you can sack ability score points to metamagic, which can then be regained a number of ways.
This is the first time I've ever seen a class from BOEF suggested seriously.

[Hirax]

Hmm what would be a good psionic prestige class then?

Thrallherd is a classic, I'd do 22 levels of it, though you'd need to work with your DM to homebrew how its epic progression would work with regards to minions and cohorts.

[Harry]

Ok so how about this? factotum 3/spell-to-power erudite 14/metaphysical spell shaper 3/Thrallherd 10/metamind 10?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Unless he can make the antics of the PC's looks almost sane, writing a book based on a D&D campaign is not a very good idea.

Indeed. It's either going to end up completely wacky, or your DM is going to railroad you hard and even put words in your characters' mouths based on what he wants to write.

[Harry]

I've played this character for a while, the DM hasn't done anything too extreme yet. In placing words in our mouths anyways.

Oh one last thing because I am confused which would be better,

factotum 3/spell-to-power erudite 14/metaphysical spell shaper 3/Thrallherd 10/metamind 10.

Or

factotum 11/spell-to-power erudite 19/metamind 10?

With the above build I get the awesome abilities of thrallherd, (badass followers basically)

with the below build I can bypass SR, which combined with the spell unname, pre-errata irresistible spell metamagic, and my artifact that gives me knowledge of every creatures truename,

Gives me the ability to basically erase almost anyone/thing.

[Hirax]

If you're going to go past level 3 for factotum, you may as well go to level 20. Note that at level 19 factotums can grab an extraordinary ability from any class 3 times per day for one minute. The ability must come online before level 15 for the copied class feature, but your factotum level is treated as your level in that class. And because that minute will never run out, due to temporal reiteration, every day you and your fission copy will be able to add 3 new extraordinary abilities to yourselves. If you go this route, fun things you'll get include improved evasion, mettle, a level 20 druid animal companion, a level 10 druid animal companion (via ranger), a level 20 healer mount (I'd take a couatl), most of the class features of all ToB classes, the ability to ignore ASF, the removal of your need to eat, sleep, and breathe, ignore speed reductions of medium and heavy armor, DR 5/-, anyone attempting to move by you without provoking an AoO adds +20 to their tumble DC, the diehard feat, the weapon finesse feat, your int mod as a damage bonus to all spells, several skill bonuses, several initiative bonuses, trap sense, trapfinding, improved uncanny dodge, scout version of hide in plain sight, wisdom+3 to AC, ranger combat style feats, because of warblade you'll qualify as an 18th level fight for the purposes feats (and thanks to the heroics spell, this means anything that's a fighter bonus feat you'll have forever), favored enemies, skirmish, fast movement, sneak attack, sudden strike, the improved initiative feat, several bonuses to saves, and probably lots of other things.

edit: and don't forget the share spells feature, so while you and your fission copy are under the effects of shapechange. You'll have yourself, your fission copy, 2 psicrystals, 2 familiars, 2 mounts, and 4 animal companions. All under the effects of lord knows how many different things. You and your posse could be the dirty dozen? :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

jack get as much cheese as you can get but I can not just change my race.OK. So... Wish at will sound good? Also opens up a few infinite action options.

Sorcerer-40 (seriously; we want the Epic bonus feats... although Sorcerer-10/Loremaster-30 works better if you can dual PrC).

This gives you bonus feats at 23rd, 26th, 29th, 32nd, 35th, 38th.

You'll need:
Epic Heighten Spell (Sorcerer bonus)
Improved Spell Capacity (the Epic version, several copies, see notes)
Innate Spell (Complete Arcane; non-epic; Limited Wish to duplicate Psychic Reformation under transparency if you need to do so to get it, or dark chaos shuffle)
Supernatural Transformation (Savage Species; non-epic; Limited Wish to duplicate Psychic Reformation under transparency if you need to do so to get it, or dark chaos shuffle)

Notes:
This is carefully constructed - Improved Spell Capacity gives you a spell slot one level higher than the highest you can cast. You have a little free metamagic every day from Incantatrix. Use it on Epic Heighten Spell. You can cast an arbitrarily high spell (limited to your primary ability modifier). Use that to qualify for Improved Spell Capacity to get a spell slot of any level you like (at least 17th). Burn that 17th level (or higher) spell slot on Innate Spell, to get Wish at will (or Wish at will with metamagic; Quicken is hilarious, Persistent is extremely useful). Then use Supernatural Transformation on it to make it Supernatural, and get rid of the clauses about keeping XP components. You now have a free Wish you can use, 1/round, forever. If you've got feats to spare, get variations on it. If you want, you can get Miracle as well this way, too.

Edit:
Oh yes, and as a supernatural ability, none of them are dispellable, ever.

The item creation clause of Wish means you have anything you want... which also means scrolls of any divine buff you want.

The other advantage of Sorcerer is that it opens up the Greater Arcane Fusion / Sanctum Spell / Celerity combo that gives you infinite standard actions immediately.

[hex0]

Can you dual PRC?

Also, you are correct about getting epic bonus feats, but sorcerer 40 is pretty boring. Have you looked at spellthief, preferably trickster spellthief. With master spellthief and other shenanigans (like nar demonbinder), you can counterspell all day. Absorb spell is fun too.

[Jack_Simth]

Can you dual PRC?

Also, you are correct about getting epic bonus feats, but sorcerer 40 is pretty boring. Have you looked at spellthief, preferably trickster spellthief. With master spellthief and other shenanigans (like nar demonbinder), you can counterspell all day. Absorb spell is fun too.
Sorcerer-40 is there for a specific purpose (and that is the Epic bonus feats, and access to Sorcerer-only spells). If you can dual PrC, then yes, by all means - go Hexblade-3/Monk-2 (with Ascetic Mage, unless Wisdom is higher than Charisma)/Sorcerer-1/Phrenic LA +2/Half-Fey LA+2/Loremaster-30. If you can't, Sorcerer-40.