Social Drinking

[noparlpf]

First, what's even up with beer? I don't get how people think it tastes good. Or is it just cheap? (I'm in the US, on Long Island right now.)
Anyway, is it a bad idea to take one beer in a social situation, and just sip it, so as to not seem like the odd man out? I don't exactly know how to handle social situations in which alcohol appears and want to know for next time.

[Coidzor]

Some people like the taste, some people like it upon repeated exposure.

Some people credit it for the development of cities and civilization.

As for nursing a single beer through a social gathering... I don't believe that's considered rude, no. Not sure exactly how it would be taken, though that depends on the kind of gathering and how much people are drinking that they'd be paying that much attention to how much you've been drinking.

[Dr.Epic]

I know people who don't drink when others do so it's not that odd.

[noparlpf]

I know people who don't drink when others do so it's not that odd.

See, I have no idea at all, which is why I'm asking.

[snoopy13a]

Beer is an acquired taste. It is a little bit similiar to coffee in that respect.

[Tebryn]

The main problem is that a lot of people think beer is just beer. You've had one beer, you've had them all. When that is totally not the case. Beers are much like wine, where sure there is some quality control elements going in to produce cheap, low alcohol stuff that you can get 20 cans and just go to town much like there are wine coolers. While there are people who just don't care for the taste of alcohol in general, I think a lot of stigma at least in the States come from the above misconception and just drinking beer their taste buds aren't ready for. Drinking a heavy stout, having never drank a beer in your life, isn't going to end well for most people. Start low, on a pale beer and work your way up if you're really interested in getting into beers. If the hoppy malty taste isn't for you...try lambic fruit beers. They're delicious and fizzy and everything good while still giving you that warm fuzzy feeling.

[JoshL]

I used to think I hated beer. This was because all I had ever tried were cheap American lagers (Bud, Busch, etc). They are without doubt awful.

But good beer? Man, there's a whole world of it out there! I tend towards stouts (dark and malty), scottish ales (thick and sweet), barleywines (complex, about as hoppy as I get, but with equal measure bitter and sweet) and the occasional porter (smoky and rich). Imports and microbrews are readily had these days. Yes, they're more expensive. But you can get drinkable stuff that isn't too bad.

I also used to attend a lot of parties/social gatherings when I didn't drink. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Occasionally you'll find someone who thinks you are weird, or insists that you have a drink, but a) nothing wrong with being a little weird and b) you can always say no!

[Worlok]

First off: It's your downtime, and as such it is your choice whether or not you're gonna drink, or what. The entire rest of this post runs on the assumption that you are debating whether or not you should enter the world of beer, and it's mostly just a collection of common entry-level considerations and "strategies". :smalltongue:

As a German, my cultural mores might be different, but I do think I know a good bit about beer and the drinking of it. That said, it is generally not considered rude to take your time with the brew - in my experience, that is - as people largely assume you're trying to enjoy the taste rather than the effect - which is a thing with some, after all.

Yes, beer is cheap, and often it is an acquired taste. This, however, is precisely what has made it such a popular "social" drink, in that it clearly marks the experienced party-goers in the eyes of some, and rarely goes too heavy on the wallet as a plus.

It is definitely not considered rude to be nursing one beer through the evening when you spend your time talking a lot, or doing other social-occasion-/party-things, by the way, for interrupting conversation just to knock one down definitely is - with most people and situations in which such comes up, anyhow. And then there are people that simply like to take rewinding slow, which is absolutely acceptable - Should someone give you lip over your supposedly insufficient consumption of it, you can always just give lip back (ironically, this tends to be easier, but also a good bit more volatile after having had about enough) or be like "Well, man, not gonna rush this, I'll catch up." or something of the sort.

Regarding the taste itself, most American beers can be described as - I don't know the word for it - sweet(-ish), as opposed to the more earthy/bitter flavors common in most European brands. As every single brand has its own brewery secrets, though, you'd have to be rather precise with what your poison is for there to be an educated guess. :smallredface:

Speaking of, however, that's a good way to evade the whole deal if you feel like it: It's okay for someone new to it to test out different brands. So try another kind of beer every so often, like, go for Beck's the one night and for Budweiser the next, and if you don't feel like drinking after all, you can always just say that this particular brand doesn't quite appeal to you.

Asking the staff to add a hint of Coke - or other non-alcoholic, flavor-intensive drink - to it, which you can generally do where beer is served, or doing so yourself is a good way to get a buzz on without having to taste the undiluted fury quite as strongly, by the by. I believe Sprite is a common favorite, and mixed drinks, while often vilified, are a tried-and-true staple of all gastronomy.

What you have to remember is that what you're drinking there is, in a way, liquid bread with a built-in brain-disabler, if rarely described that way in polite company. Experiment until you have one that you like, and be open about your doing so. That will generally get you recommendations from more experienced drinkers, which can yield rather surprisingly satisfying results, might jump-start conversations in quite unexpected ways, and if you find that you're just not a beer person, you can just drop the habit and have other things instead - I'd be quite surprised if there would be any trouble to come from that.

Hope this helps a little, and if there's still questions open, just let me know. :smallsmile:

[noparlpf]

The main problem is that a lot of people think beer is just beer. You've had one beer, you've had them all. When that is totally not the case. Beers are much like wine, where sure there is some quality control elements going in to produce cheap, low alcohol stuff that you can get 20 cans and just go to town much like there are wine coolers. While there are people who just don't care for the taste of alcohol in general, I think a lot of stigma at least in the States come from the above misconception and just drinking beer their taste buds aren't ready for. Drinking a heavy stout, having never drank a beer in your life, isn't going to end well for most people. Start low, on a pale beer and work your way up if you're really interested in getting into beers. If the hoppy malty taste isn't for you...try lambic fruit beers. They're delicious and fizzy and everything good while still giving you that warm fuzzy feeling.

I've tried several different sorts, just tasting. My grandfather drinks one beer every evening with dinner. The only one he's had that I thought was palatable was an Indian one we had out one night.


First off: It's your downtime, and as such it is your choice whether or not you're gonna drink, or what. The entire rest of this post runs on the assumption that you are debating whether or not you should enter the world of beer, and it's mostly just a collection of common entry-level considerations and "strategies". :smalltongue:

As a German, my cultural mores might be different, but I do think I know a good bit about beer and the drinking of it. That said, it is generally not considered rude to take your time with the brew - in my experience, that is - as people largely assume you're trying to enjoy the taste rather than the effect - which is a thing with some, after all.

Yes, beer is cheap, and often it is an acquired taste. This, however, is precisely what has made it such a popular "social" drink, in that it clearly marks the experienced party-goes in some people's eyes, and rarely goes too heavy on the wallet as a plus.

It is definitely not considered rude to be nursing one beer through the evening when you spend your time talking a lot, or doing other party-things, by the way, for interrupting conversation just to knock one down definitely is - with most people and situations in which such comes up, anyhow. And then there are people that simply like to take rewinding slow, which is absolutely acceptable - Should someone give you lip over your supposedly insufficient consumption of it, you can always just give lip back (ironically, this tends to be easier, but also a good bit more volatile after having had about enough) or be like "Well, man, not gonna rush this, I'll catch up." or something of the sort.

Regarding the taste itself, most American beers can be described as - I don't know the word for it - sweet(-ish), as opposed to the more earthy/bitter flavors common in most European brands. As every single brand has its own brewery secrets, though, you'd have to be rather precise with what your poison is for there to be an educated guess. :smallredface:

Speaking of, however, that's a good way to evade the whole deal if you feel like it: It's okay for someone new to it to test out different brands. So try another kind of beer every so often, like, go for Beck's the one night and for Budweiser the next, and if you don't feel like drinking after all, you can always just say that this particular brand doesn't quite appeal to you.

Asking the staff to add a hint of Coke - or other non-alcoholic, flavor-intensive drink - to it, which you can generally do where beer is served, or doing so yourself is a good way to get a buzz on without having to taste the undiluted fury quite as strongly, by the by. I believe Sprite is a common favorite, and mixed drinks, while often vilified, are a tried-and-true staple of all gastronomy.

What you have to remember is that what you're drinking there is, in a way, liquid bread with a built-in brain-disabler, if rarely described that way in polite company. Experiment until you have one that you like, and be open about your doing so. That will generally get you recommendations from more experienced drinkers, which can yield rather surprisingly satisfying results, might jump-start conversations in quite unexpected ways, and if you find that you're just not a beer person, you can just drop the habit and have other things instead - I'd be quite surprised if there would be any trouble to come from that.

Hope this helps a little, and if there's still questions open, just let me know. :smallsmile:

Wow, that's practically an essay. Thanks.

[Worlok]

You're most welcome, und zum Wohl, my man. :smallsmile:

As a side-note, I edited it for some minor things, just in case. Mostly, typos, though. Should anything else come up, feel free to ask, there's more where that came from, and I'm always happy to ramble about the sauce. :smallbiggrin:

[Tebryn]

I've tried several different sorts, just tasting. My grandfather drinks one beer every evening with dinner. The only one he's had that I thought was palatable was an Indian one we had out one night.

I'd really suggest a Fruit Lambic for you then. You can find them in a lot of super markets, I know Krogers, Giant Eagle and...I forget the other major super market chain out that way sells them. Look for Lindemans, depending on what fruit you like they have Sour Cherry, Raspberry (my personal favorite of them), Blackcurrent, Apple and Peach. I've only tried the Raspberry and Apple myself. I found the Apple to be a bit on the Sparkling Grape juice side of things but it wasn't at all unpleasent. The Raspberry really is just divine though.

[Anarion]

Just so it's clear, it's not rude to avoid drinking in a social setting, nor is it rude to drink less than others. Alcohol tolerance is a personal thing.

If you want to get a taste for beer and try various ones, that's cool, but you should never feel pressured to get drunk.

[Remmirath]

Nothing at all wrong with drinking one drink the whole evening/occasion. Also nothing wrong with having no alcoholic drink whatsoever. I hardly ever have more than one (alcoholic) drink at a time or even in a day, because while I do very much enjoy how they taste, I very much do not enjoy feeling even a bit 'buzzed' and cannot stand being more affected than that. People often tell me I'm weird because of that, but mostly in a curious/joking around sort of fashion, and it's never been a problem. If people offer me more, I just say I'd rather not and that's that.

It's ultimately a matter of taste on how people think beer tastes good, of course. I like it (well, I like good beers, if that needs to be said), but I know some people including some relatives who dislike it fairly strongly. I like coffee also. And I don't understand why so many people like soda - I can hardly stand the stuff, especially the aftertaste to it!

I'm not sure about the acquired taste thing, although I suppose for some people it could be. I liked both beer and coffee the first time I had them, and I can't recall any time I thought something was awful to begin with and ended up liking it later on.

Come to think of it, unless you are going to a bar and perhaps even then (I don't go to bars much), I wouldn't think it would be seen as that odd if you had something entirely non-alcoholic that you prefer. I believe such establishments usually have non-alcoholic options for just that reason. Unless the whole point of the social occasion is to consume alcoholic beverages (I suppose those do happen occasionally though I avoid them with only slightly less fervour than the plague), I can't imagine it being all that odd if you don't choose to drink but do participate in other ways.

[SaintRidley]

Eh, when I'm out I either don't drink or I have one drink, usually a martini. No beer because I have no interest on that end of things. I don't think anybody's ever thought me rude for my habits when out.

[Dr Bwaa]

I've tried several different sorts, just tasting. My grandfather drinks one beer every evening with dinner. The only one he's had that I thought was palatable was an Indian one we had out one night.

There are a lot of very good IPAs (India Pale Ales) out there if that's the sort of thing you think you might like. They're generally quite hoppy, which is not a taste I can get behind so much personally, but there are certainly lots of people who do.

As others have said, I would absolutely stay away from popular cheap lagers (anything you see tv ads for, or that comes in a case of > 6). They're just bad; they're hardly even beer, and there's no justification for them at all in my opinion. If you feel like experimenting, Blue Moon is an inexpensive, lightish wheat beer you can get out that way that I think is a very nice "starter beer" (put a slice of orange in your glass/bottle for added deliciousness).

And to clarify (or I guess reiterate), you should never feel pressured to drink. It's not rude not to drink, or to drink very slowly (as others mentioned, drinking slowly to appraise a beer will likely get people interested because they'll want to give you recommendations, not because you've offended them).

[snoopy13a]

I have a couple of suggestions:

1) Milwaukee's Best: Simply by its name, you know it is good. This beer combines choice ingredients with a crisp finish. After all, it isn't Milwaukee's Worst.

2) Natural Light: This beer is organic--at least its name suggests that it is organic. It has a nice metallic taste and as a light beer, it isn't filling.

3) Coors Light: The famous silver bullet. It has a rich, complex favor and is quite heavy. It is made in the Rocky Mountains as you can tell from the can. It also has fancy color-coded technology that will tell you the optimal temperature for drinking this fine brew.

4) Budweiser: The king of beers. All other beers pay it tribute (seriously, they do). Fun fact: Budweiser is so upscale that is uses an exotic grain, rice, in its brewing process. Budweiser is famous for its complex hops which lend a spicy aftertaste.

5) Labatt's Blue: An import from the exotic and mysterous nation of Canada. Contrary to its name, Labatt's Blue is not, in fact, blue--actually, it is more of a yellow. However, drinking it won't make you blue either. Labatt's represents the best aspects of Canada--hockey, ballet, Tim Horton's, the good side of Niagara Falls, and hockey--in a twelve ounce can.

Now that's you've learned about North America's finest brews, you too can be a beer expert.

[Tebryn]

I have a couple of suggestions:

1) Milwaukee's Best: Simply by its name, you know it is good. This beer combines choice ingredients with a crisp finish. After all, it isn't Milwaukee's Worst.

2) Natural Light: This beer is organic--at least its name suggests that it is organic. It has a nice metallic taste and as a light beer, it isn't filling.

3) Coors Light: The famous silver bullet. It has a rich, complex favor and is quite heavy. It is made in the Rocky Mountains as you can tell from the can. It also has fancy color-coded technology that will tell you the optimal temperature for drinking this fine brew.

4) Budweiser: The king of beers. All other beers pay it tribute (seriously, they do). Fun fact: Budweiser is so upscale that is uses an exotic grain, rice, in its brewing process. Budweiser is famous for its complex hops which lend a spicy aftertaste.

5) Labatt's Blue: An import from the exotic and mysterous nation of Canada. Contrary to its name, Labatt's Blue is not, in fact, blue--actually, it is more of a yellow. However, drinking it won't make you blue either. Labatt's represents the best aspects of Canada--hockey, ballet, Tim Horton's, the good side of Niagara Falls, and hockey--in a twelve ounce can.

Now that's you've learned about North America's finest brews, you too can be a beer expert.

Now why go and do that when the man is actually asking for help?

[Coidzor]

Now that's you've learned about North America's finest brews, you too can be a beer expert.

You've made the critical error of forgetting about the Pabst the beer that is the one thing hipsters love unironically.

[_Zoot_]

First, what's even up with beer? I don't get how people think it tastes good. Or is it just cheap? (I'm in the US, on Long Island right now.)

Well there's your problem! :smalltongue: American beer is awful!

[Ravens_cry]

If you go to a brew pub, you can probably get some sample portions of different beers.
As others have mentioned, different beers taste very different, but it's very possible you'll find something you like. And if not, well, no one is forcing you to drink the stuff.
Personally, I find the less sweet taste of beer compared to, say, coolers and many mixed drinks prevents me from chugging them. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing. It's way, way, too easy to just drink Mike's Hard Lemonade or Vex like it's the (bad) pop they taste like, and given that they are 7% alcohol, (more than most beers) that's a bad, bad idea.

[snoopy13a]

You've made the critical error of forgetting about the Pabst the beer that is the one thing hipsters love unironically.

I've never actually had Pabst, which is why it didn't make my list.

I do drink Labatt's Blue Light often though. I don't always want complex, hoppy beers. It depends on the situation and how I'm feeling.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Nursing a beer is bad idea because it will most certainly warm up and nothing is worse than warm beer... no, not even that, having said that you if you can keep your beer cold throughout the social gathering, I don't see a problem in only having one. (Well I do; but I like beer a lot :smalltongue:)

I am not as knowledgeable on beers as many other playgrounders; but I tend to prefer dark beers over clear ones.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I'll add that if you don't want to drink at all, it's also perfectly fine in most occasions to just order a Coke and nurse that. Just to keep your mouth/hands busy when others are drinking.

Beer is... interesting. I actually went in the opposite direction, in that the first beers I liked and could stand were Guinness and Tuborg, some of the darker stouts. Lagers I found too watered down and too strong at the same time. Now, it's completely reversed - I try to avoid Guinness whenever possible (yes, even to the point of not drinking at all if no other options are available). In general, if you do want to get into beer, but don't know where to start, just go to a liquor store, but individual bottles of a dozen or so imports and start there. Once my friend and I bought something like 40 different bottles/cans and tried them all over a weekend... definitely one of the more fun experiences I've had.

Now, I'm not an expert as some people probably are, but most beers fall into the following categories:

Lager
Your run of the mill light beer. Most of the cheap stuff are lagers (or pale ales). But there's also good ones. Good places to start are Heineken and Stella Artois - if you don't like those, chances are you won't like lagers in general. Has a little bit of a tangy zest.

Brown Ale
A darker type of beer (I'm sure there's lots of little differences beer experts will know, but unfortunately I don't). Unlike a lager, they don't have that tangy zest, and are heavier and more bitter. Wouldn't start with them, they're more of an acquired taste. A good ones to try is Samuel Adams Boston Ale.

Pale Ale/India Pale Ale
A lot of cheap beers are also this. A little darker and a lot more bitter than a lager, usually has a stronger taste and more alcohol content, but are the same density. Definitely the hardest one for a brewer to get right - most non-established IPA's utterly suck and taste like watered down tree bark. Is probably the most bitter out of light beers since lots of hops are added. The only one I can think of that's good is Samuel Adams Pale Ale, but it's not a type I generally drink.

Stout
Guinness, Tuborg, or any other dark, heavy, dense, strong-tasting, usually bitter beer. Have a lot of crema and often feel like you're drinking a bitter milkshake. An acquired taste for most people, but can be a good place to start as they are the ones that least taste like beer. A fun one to try is Hobgoblin, if only for fantasy overtones and Harry Potter-esque bottle. It's a bit more bitter and somewhat less smooth than Guinness.

Honey Lager & Honey Brown
An interesting variation on in that they're exactly what the names suggest: sweet versions of lagers and brown ales. Brewed with honey and nuts, they also tend to smell really nice. Sleemann's Honey Brown and Newcastle are best known (and tasting) examples of honey browns. Don't know any good non-microbrew honey lagers.

Ale
Somewhere inbetween a pale ale and a stout. Technically, pale ale is a lighter version of this.

Weissbier
Aka white (or wheat) beer. Made from wheat malts, with very little barley. Comes in two varieties: filtered (kristallweizen) and unfiltered (hefeweizen), unfiltered contains some yeast and is a lot denser than filtered. The two have a similar baseline taste, but unfiltered also adds a strong yeast aftertaste reminiscent of raw dough. Is probably the only beer type without any significant bitterness, and the large amount of malts makes it a little sweet. Worth trying at least once, preferably a German import, all the North American ones I've ever tasted are watered down and honestly even more like pee than Bud Light. Highly recommend Konig Ludwig and Schneiderweisse, the first one is my overall favourite beer.

Blonde
In theory, a sweeter form of an IPA. In practice, is something inbetween a weiss and a brown ale. A sweet, moderately light and moderately bitter beer that tastes suspiciously like a filtered weiss with added bitterness. Quite a few variations on the basic theme: high sweetness/high bitterness (Tripel Karameliet), this type is really really sweet, as if someone dumped a few spoons of honey in the glass; high sweetness/low bitterness (Duvel); medium sweetness/low bitterness (Hoegaarden); and finally, medium sweetness/medium bitterness (Leffe). Leffe or Duvel are usually good places to start. All blondes come from Belgium (where they hang out near windmills and make cheese while wearing milkmaid outfits) or rarely Netherlands.

In summary, I drink beer almost exclusively for the taste (if I want to get smashed, I just buy a mickey of rum and go to town), so I don't mind paying a bit more for nice imports. Some of these, like Duvel and Tripel Karameliet are almost triple the cost of cheap American lagers, 2x if you factor in alcohol content. That said, if you do try lots of random imports and like even a few of them, it'll be worth it in the long run. Also helps to impress tomboy/ladette type girls that like beer :tongue:.

[Trog]

First, what's even up with beer? I don't get how people think it tastes good. Or is it just cheap? (I'm in the US, on Long Island right now.)
Anyway, is it a bad idea to take one beer in a social situation, and just sip it, so as to not seem like the odd man out? I don't exactly know how to handle social situations in which alcohol appears and want to know for next time.
At first, beer in general doesn't taste all that great. After a while you get past the initial different-ness of beer and begin to get into a stage where you can compare them objectively to one another. From here it's sort of a personal exploration to find a brand(s) you like. Try out what interests you and be open to recommendations from others on what to try if you haven't had them already. Over the years you develop a bit of a palette of your own. Everyone is different and there is no universally accepted best beer.

Alcohol at social functions is usually there to relax people and get them talking to one another more. It's often a social lubricant. Nursing a beer is fine. Not choosing to drink at all is also fine. Some do not like beer. And others find alcohol they like more than beer. I think beer is often chosen for a beverage of adult social situations because it appeals to the widest number of people. Whether or not those people will like your taste in beer is another matter.

Which brings me to...

Obvious Beer Etiquette

If you drink and are offered a beer in a social situations it's okay to:
• Inquire about what kinds are available and choose one
• Pass on beer and ask what non-alcoholic drinks are available
• Bring your own to share with the group
• Compliment the host on their beer choice, if you enjoy it

Avoid:
• Inquiring about what kinds are available and then pass on drinking the beer. The reason for this, obviously, is that this may be interpreted as a put down of the host's taste in beer - you might have had a beer... just not that beer.
• Passing on beer and declaring that one shouldn't drink. Again, this is to avoid this looking like a put down to your host. If you don't drink, fine. That's your choice. But remember: If you're going to preach tee-totaling to drunk people, you're going to have a bad time. If others give you a hard time for passing on alcohol, deflect comments in an unconcerned manner and the moment will likely pass quickly if you are in pleasant company. Thanking the host for offering is always seen as considerate, drinking or no drinking. Even if you are against drinking the host was trying to share something of theirs with you, after all.
• Bringing your own and not offering to share. Not that you have to supply enough for the uh "whole class" or what have you, but being free with what you have is usually something others appreciate.
• Insulting the host's choice of beer, if you didn't enjoy it. Switching labels because you are curious to sample another available label is often a nice universally acceptable reason to switch. Beer drinkers usually understand the need to browse.

[Inglenook]

I have a couple of suggestions:

1) Milwaukee's Best: Simply by its name, you know it is good. This beer combines choice ingredients with a crisp finish. After all, it isn't Milwaukee's Worst.

2) Natural Light: This beer is organic--at least its name suggests that it is organic. It has a nice metallic taste and as a light beer, it isn't filling.

3) Coors Light: The famous silver bullet. It has a rich, complex favor and is quite heavy. It is made in the Rocky Mountains as you can tell from the can. It also has fancy color-coded technology that will tell you the optimal temperature for drinking this fine brew.

4) Budweiser: The king of beers. All other beers pay it tribute (seriously, they do). Fun fact: Budweiser is so upscale that is uses an exotic grain, rice, in its brewing process. Budweiser is famous for its complex hops which lend a spicy aftertaste.

5) Labatt's Blue: An import from the exotic and mysterous nation of Canada. Contrary to its name, Labatt's Blue is not, in fact, blue--actually, it is more of a yellow. However, drinking it won't make you blue either. Labatt's represents the best aspects of Canada--hockey, ballet, Tim Horton's, the good side of Niagara Falls, and hockey--in a twelve ounce can.

Now that's you've learned about North America's finest brews, you too can be a beer expert.
This made me laugh harder than I should have. :smallbiggrin:

Beer's definitely an acquired taste, and I can't really see a scenario where you'd be judged for nursing a single beer all evening … although it would likely get warm. Showing my unrefined American palate here, because warm beer makes me gag.

And my friends are mentally ill and think it's a great idea to chug a boot of Bud Lite. I'm personally pretty picky about what I drink, so even watching them do this grosses me out. I mostly prefer wine, liquor and mixed drinks on the rare occasion that I do drink, but there are a few beers that I like:

- Anything from Leinenkugel. Several of them are pretty "non-beery" in flavor, and some of the summer ones taste almost like fruit punch. My favorites are the Berry Weiss, Oktoberfest and Summer Shandy.
- Dos Equis is okay.
- As is Killian's Irish Red.
- Every now and again a Russian Imperial stout. So named, I assume, because it leaves you feeling like you've eaten an entire bag of potatoes and been clubbed in the head by a Russian Mafia mook.
- I've had a lot of really good craft beers, although I can't remember any names off the top of my head.
- Coors is pretty awful, but I do like the color-changing can. :smallredface:

And I'm not a beer snob at all, but I'd recommend avoiding:
- Corona
- Budweiser
- Busch
- Miller
- Pabst
- Natty Lite

[JustPlayItLoud]

Everyone else has pretty much said what needs to be said, so I'll just add one bit. In the states, beer is traditionally served cold. The colder the better. Many of us feel that warm beer tastes awful. Many of us are wrong. American lagers do taste awful if they're warm. In England, however (maybe elsewhere also, I've never been to Europe), beers are more commonly served cool or room temperature, so those beers tend to taste better warm. They're often packaged for export to the US and sold as "pub ale". Boddington's, in my experience, is the one most commonly available on draught at bars, but most decent bars will have something either in bottle or on tap. Maybe take a look at some brands of pub ale to look out for. Newcastle brown ale is also English, fairly common, and doesn't taste too bad warm although it's better cold. A good pub ale actually tastes better cool or at room temperature, to me anyhow.

[Keld Denar]

The east coast is a little...behind...on the microbrewing culture. You can't really blame them, all stuffy and fuddy duddy and whatnot. Washington and Oregon, on the other hand (and to a lesser degree, California), that is where true microbrew joy is found. In fact, 1/5 breweries in the US lie in one of those two states. Bliss is a handcrafted IPA or porter from a place that brews by the barrel, rather than in huge batches.

And to the people putting down IPAs...try Ninkasi's Total Domination (Eugene), Hair of the Dog's Blue Dot (Portland), or Russian River Brewing Co's Pliny the Elder (Santa Rosa). The latter is probably one of the most decorated beers in the US. Delicious!

Bitterer is betterer!

EDIT: As far as drinking pressure, I think it is safe to say that in the US, drinking and driving is highly highly highly discouraged. Just say you have to drive. Even if you don't have a car. Most people won't give it a second thought, and those who know you well enough won't care.

[Knaight]

Anyway, is it a bad idea to take one beer in a social situation, and just sip it, so as to not seem like the odd man out? I don't exactly know how to handle social situations in which alcohol appears and want to know for next time.

Most people really won't care if you pass on the beer entirely. It's fine, and it works out better for everyone involved if someone who likes it ends up drinking it instead. If people do have an issue, then you're probably at some sort of sketchy party that you'd be better off leaving in any case.

[Brother Oni]

I agree with there being no issue with not drinking in a social situation and if there are any idiots who pressurise you, just claim you're driving later.

[Mauve Shirt]

Don't feel like you're required to drink at a social gathering that features alcohol. It's not rude if you decline.
If you want to like beer, I suggest you start with something fruity, like a red or wheat brewed with fruit. I've had a delightful wheat beer brewed with peaches that was tasty and didn't have the liquid-bread taste.

If you don't like beer, then it's the perfect thing to nurse throughout an evening and avoid getting drunk. If you drink something you like, you may have another, and then another, and before long you'll regret having friends like these. :smalltongue:

[polity4life]

First I have to ask a question to answer your question: Where are your taste buds?

Beer is an amazing taste adventure that, at least in my experience, is best had without a meal. Let the beer work and give you what it has to offer, much like wine or sushi (without soy sauce, wasabi, and the like). Maybe you just need to do more exploring or maybe beer will never taste worthwhile to you. The only way is to try different stuff and grade each case on its own merits. I could make a pretty exhaustive list of great beers but I'll hold off unless you want it.

To the second question I say don't sweat it. If you want to milk a beer for hours, go right ahead. If you don't want to drink at all, that's fine too. If your company is hung up on you being dry for the evening then that's their issue, not yours.

And Keld Denar is incorrect. Michigan is where microbrew magic is at. Try out anything from Short's Brewery, Dragonmead, Atwater, Motor City Brewery Works, New Holland, Arbor Brewing, Bells, Founders, Frankenmuth (I can keep going), and you will know what good beer is.

[Castaras]

Round here, it's very common for people not wanting to drink much to just have one beer the whole night, or a half pint of cider the whole night. Nothing wrong with it.

[noparlpf]

Wow, lots of advice overnight. Both on types of beer and on etiquette. Thanks, everyone.

[Winter_Wolf]

First let me say drinking or not is always a personal preference, even in establishments with drink minimums (which are usually just cover charges to get in the door, phrased different). Shoot I bet if you wanted you could get apple juice and nurse it all night and no one would bother you.

I'd recommend if you want to try several types of beer (and you're old enough) to order a "flight" of beer. Typically 4 oz glasses of 4-8 different beers, and if you're drinking craft beers, it's great. There's a local (for me) bar that does a beer tasting event once a week, a twenty gets you participation, and you get a glass/partial glass of several different brews of the bartender's choice*.

And some people just don't like beer. That's cool. Some people, like myself, simply cannot drink beer due to health reasons. I used to love trying different beers, too. :smallfrown: I have problems with acidic blood, and formation of crystals/tophi of uric acid (read: chronic gout).

*This particular bar boasted near to 1000 different beers, literally 900+ different varieties of beer from around the globe. As a matter of principle, you'd couldn't even ask for a macrobrew (being big name US brands like Bud, Coors, or any other of those beers) in the beer tasting. Okay, you could ask, but the answer is always, "No."

[WalkingTarget]

or a half pint of cider the whole night.

Finally. I was worried that I'd have to bring this up.

I got started drinking late, probably 24 before I started drinking socially, I just plain don't like beer. Yes, I've tried a variety of brands and styles. No, they all fail the "do I enjoy the taste of this?" test. Beer is not for everybody.

Now, cider - there's something I can get behind. I can drink a beer at this point (and it's still somewhat of a social thing if, say, somebody's bought a 12-pack and pizza or something as a gift for helping them move), but I got started on cider and various mixed cocktails as a drinker in general (although I've come to enjoy the occasional neat whisk(e)y - which I still like better than beer).

[Heliomance]

Nursing a beer is bad idea because it will most certainly warm up and nothing is worse than warm beer... no, not even that, having said that you if you can keep your beer cold throughout the social gathering, I don't see a problem in only having one. (Well I do; but I like beer a lot :smalltongue:)


It has been mentioned, but ales are often supposed to be served at room temperature, so keeping it cold is not an issue.

I would also put my voice in advocating cider as an alternative to beer. I much prefer it, myself.

[JustPlayItLoud]

Well, since now we're bragging about microbrews I'm just gonna leave this here (http://livability.com/top-10/top-10-beer-cities/albuquerque/nm) and point out that Albuquerque also the really awesome local food is nice and spicy and goes great with a good brew. I know there are probably dozens of lists with different top cities, but since we're bragging I'm just going to conveniently ignore those.

[Coidzor]

And now I want some Woodchuck. :smallsigh:


And Keld Denar is incorrect. Michigan is where microbrew magic is at. Try out anything from Short's Brewery, Dragonmead, Atwater, Motor City Brewery Works, New Holland, Arbor Brewing, Bells, Founders, Frankenmuth (I can keep going), and you will know what good beer is.

Michigan is East Coast now? :smallconfused:

[Sgt. Cookie]

I feel I should add something that others appear to have missed.

When drinking beer, keep an eye on whether it's normal or "Export" as export varieties have higher alcohol contents. Personally, I prefer export to normal, but you might not.

[Thajocoth]

I don't drink at all... There's a social gathering I go to regularly in a bar. I just don't get anything to drink, because I don't want a drink. Pretty simple. I don't think anyone finds this odd.

Occasionally I'll get water, especially if I ever find myself chatting in the smoking section (I don't smoke either.)

I don't recommend feeling pressured to do something just because everyone else is doing it. That's a great way to not have a good time.

[pendell]

Anyway, is it a bad idea to take one beer in a social situation, and just sip it, so as to not seem like the odd man out? I don't exactly know how to handle social situations in which alcohol appears and want to know for next time.

That's what I believe one is supposed to do. Have one, perhaps two, drinks and nurse them through the evening so you don't seem like a bluenose but retain your wits.

I will have one drink a night and either nurse it or switch to soft drinks.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Tyndmyr]

First, what's even up with beer? I don't get how people think it tastes good. Or is it just cheap? (I'm in the US, on Long Island right now.)
Anyway, is it a bad idea to take one beer in a social situation, and just sip it, so as to not seem like the odd man out? I don't exactly know how to handle social situations in which alcohol appears and want to know for next time.

Beer is usually an acquired taste. Not liking it is not unusual. Simply sipping one beer...or just ignoring the beer and grabbing a soda is reasonable. "I don't drink beer" is not terribly uncommon, even if some social circles(ie, college) tend to push it.

Note additionally that beers vary significantly in flavor. Just because you don't like bud lite doesn't mean you'll hate all beers. Try some different stuff. Personally, I'm not a big beer drinker(though there's a few I like), but I'm quite find of Angry Orchard cider.

[JoshL]

Regarding beer temperature: warmer (cellar temperature is best, rather than fridge cold) brings out more of the flavors of a complex beer. For a lighter beer, it really doesn't do much.

Also seconding Angry Orchard. Very flavorful. A lot of ciders (at least, the more common ones in the US...I'm aware there are places in the UK that take their cider pretty seriously) taste more apple-juice-ish, rather than cider-ish to me.

[polity4life]

Michigan is East Coast now? :smallconfused:

Maybe on some maps with a really distorted representation of North America? Or are you suggesting that the best microbrews are next to the pond? If so, I will rigorously disagree sir!

Say a trippel, any trippel in the world, is the bee's knees and I'll raise you Final Absolution (http://www.dragonmead.com/Beers.html#Final Absolution Belgian Style Trippel). Tout any scotch ale and I say, "Drink a Dirty Bastard (http://foundersbrewing.com/our-beer/dirty-bastard/)!" And when you're done with the heavy stuff, cleanse the palate with some water and nurse a Soft Parade (http://www.shortsbrewing.com/beer/our-portfolio/annual-beers/the-soft-parade/) to end the night with a surprisingly potent yet gentle, fruity finish.

I think we need a beer thread.

[Brother Oni]

I'm aware there are places in the UK that take their cider pretty seriously) taste more apple-juice-ish, rather than cider-ish to me.

I'm from the Westcountry where we take our cider seriously. :smalltongue:

Ignoring the cheap supermarket level brands that 16 year olds get drunk on, like White Lightning, you get the main commerical brands like Strongbow which aren't really much better (Scrumpy is probably the best of the lot).

The more expensive ones like Bulmers/Magners are better. I'm quite fond of Black Rat myself, but there are cider micro brews, much like for beer.

A word of warning for Americans and other people used to American beer, cider is generally a fair bit stronger than beer and it's very easy to drunker than you expect, especially when drinking it in pints.

[Heliomance]

Bulmers/Magners aren't that much better than Strongbow, tbh. A good draught cider, though, is very good. Green Goblin is probably the best known thing that I've really liked, but there's a lot to be said for just going into a pub and asking what they have on tap.

I did try a bottle of Henry Westons perry a while back, which was delicious. I should get some more at some point. And if you're looking for something truly potent, Old Rosie has quite the kick to it.

[Castaras]

My favourite cider is probably Merrydown. I like all the scrumpys I've tried. Think my favourite scrumpy would be gut-rot Old Rosie.

[Aedilred]

Rudeness with that sort of thing is subjective, and will depend on the context. When my friends and I go out we tend to get rounds - that is, one person buys a drink for everyone at the table, then when those are finished someone else buys everyone a drink, and so on. The idea is that everything evens out by the end of the evening but you don't have to disrupt the conversation too much by having everyone head to the bar all the time individually.

However, it's also a fairly easy system to abuse. It's very rare that anyone will say anything if someone is taking advantage of the system, but after a few times of avoiding buying a round, it will definitely be noticed and this will be viewed as a damning deficiency of character.

So that's just something to be aware of, and realistically it applies regardless of your drinking habits. If you know you only want one drink, it's probably best to say that at the start of the evening, so that nobody thinks you're trying to get out of paying or waiting for someone else to buy you a drink. If you're matching the others drink for drink but only drinking soft drinks, it's still a good idea to get a round of drinks in for everyone else.

Also, beer is very much an acquired taste. I don't think anyone likes it the first time they try it, but it grows on you, and now I wouldn't want to live without it.

[Yora]

Well, since now we're bragging about microbrews I'm just gonna leave this here (http://livability.com/top-10/top-10-beer-cities/albuquerque/nm) and point out that Albuquerque also the really awesome local food is nice and spicy and goes great with a good brew. I know there are probably dozens of lists with different top cities, but since we're bragging I'm just going to conveniently ignore those.
You made this a chellenge, so sorry: I've been living in upper franconia for the last seven years, and here we have 200 breweries for 1 million people. There's no place in the world that gets even close to that.

Also, I think combined upper, middle, and lower franconia not only have more breweries than the entire rest of Germany together. They also don't need the rest of Germany to be the country with the third-most breweries in the world, after China and the United States. :smallbiggrin:
California may have slightly more breweries than upper franconia, but they are also almost 40 times larger.

Speaking of declining a beer, in my experience this is not a problem at all in Germany. Good friends might gently push someone to at least try one once, but that's it.
However, I have heard and read a lot about certain places in asia, where it's more complicated. In societies where direct criticism is considered to be highly disruptive and improper, problems still need to be adressed and people have to compare their oppinions and feelings about them. In such circumstances, being somewhat drunk has been established as the socially accptable way to adress such problems. If you say something inappropriate, it is not rude or an insult when it was just some drunk rambling. But that only works when everyone is drunk and everyone makes themelves exposed. It also means you can't be exactly sure what was said by whom and how it was meant, but the next day everyone still has an idea what things anger and trouble people. Without first hand experience, I am not sure how drunk people actually get when drinking with coworkers, but since the whole thing is a show anyway, I suspect that it is the appearance that matters most. And I think most of the time people don't actually get completely wasted. But it's something that is very difficult to get out of in an elegant way. If you don't drink, you don't trust the other people and they make themselves vulneable to you but you don't do the same in return. Which probably makes alcoholism a much bigger problem. You can't really say "sorry, I am an alchoholic, I can not participate in this tension releasing activity".

[Aedilred]

You made this a chellenge, so sorry: I've been living in upper franconia for the last seven years, and here we have 200 breweries for 1 million people. There's no place in the world that gets even close to that.
Well, that's obviously an entirely American list, which limits it rather. If you're including northern Europe, I doubt there's anywhere in the USA that would make it into the "top 10 beer cities". In fact I doubt there can be many in the "top 100".

American beer is no longer (all) a byword for "rats' urine" but I think they still have a fair way to go to catch up with Germany, Belgium, the Czech Republic, England, the Netherlands, et al.

[Kurgan]

First off, do not let yourself be forced to drink. If you do not want to drink, don't. If you are driving, you always have the designated driver excuse as well, I have pulled that one several times over the years.

I have to say, I am not a huge fan of most beers I have tried. Only comments I can say is that Żywiec is rather nice. Only beer I have had that I would consider good.

[QUOTE=snoopy13a;13963747

3) Coors Light: The famous silver bullet. It has a rich, complex favor and is quite heavy. It is made in the Rocky Mountains as you can tell from the can. It also has fancy color-coded technology that will tell you the optimal temperature for drinking this fine brew.
[/QUOTE]

Huh...I had some of that just a few weeks back, and I had to confirm with my friends that it was not in fact water...had no taste to me.

I am also going to have to weigh in and say I am part of the cider crowd. That is where the deliciousness is at. Favorite brand of that is McKenzies, though I am sure there is better out there.

Really all in all, I prefer vodka and wine to the beers.

[snoopy13a]

Huh...I had some of that just a few weeks back, and I had to confirm with my friends that it was not in fact water...had no taste to me.



Yeah, my post was satirical. Coors Light, especially when you get it on tap, is as close as you can get to alcoholic water. That is its appeal, however.

Most of my rant was true, from a certain of point of view :smalltongue:. Budweiser does have rice has an ingredient, for example. But, this is usually pointed out by beer snobs as a failing and a mark of inferiority.

[WalkingTarget]

Since I'm seeing a gratifying number of cider people, many from places who seem to care about it more than the US, I may have to get a rundown of which brands my local grocery (i.e. the one across the street from my apartment) carries later to get some opinions.

[thubby]

it's never impolite to refuse alcohol.

the problem with beer is thus. cheap rum still tastes like rum.
cheap beer tastes like fizzy piss in a can.

people who "dislike beer" are overwhelmingly referring to pale lagers that make up the bulk of the stuff you'll see in a cooler at a picnic. it is bitter by intention and most people are only exposed to the low end.

porter/stouts (guiness being a big name) are my personal preference.

[snoopy13a]

Since I'm seeing a gratifying number of cider people, many from places who seem to care about it more than the US, I may have to get a rundown of which brands my local grocery (i.e. the one across the street from my apartment) carries later to get some opinions.

In the U.S., the only major cider producer I know of is Woodchuck. To be honest, I don't know how it compares with British cider.

[Coidzor]

In the U.S., the only major cider producer I know of is Woodchuck. To be honest, I don't know how it compares with British cider.

Woodchuck on the east coast and better places and Hornsby's on the west coast seem to be the only reliably obtainable ciders that aren't small scale or specialty products.

[Riverdance]

Well, since now we're bragging about microbrews I'm just gonna leave this here (http://livability.com/top-10/top-10-beer-cities/albuquerque/nm) and point out that Albuquerque also the really awesome local food is nice and spicy and goes great with a good brew. I know there are probably dozens of lists with different top cities, but since we're bragging I'm just going to conveniently ignore those.

And might I point out that Burlington, Vermont is second on that list. Represent!

[Aedilred]

Part of the problem with cider is that, unlike beer, or even wine, it takes so long to produce the raw materials from scratch that it's difficult to respond quickly to demand. Most cider that's available is made from eating or juicing apples, because they're the varieties that are most widely grown, and because if the cider doesn't sell, you can use the same crop next year for eating/juicing and still make money. This is why most "commercially available" ciders taste nothing like actual cider.

The only places that are really geared up, therefore, to produce decent ciders are those which already have the trees in situ and usually have quite a long tradition of growing cider apples. Principally, the cider belt in England (between about Devon and Herefordshire) and Normandy. There are a couple of pockets elsewhere that have managed to produce decent ciders, normally by combining dessert apples with cooking apples to produce something like a cider apple taste, although they still tend to be sweeter.

Blackthorn, Strongbow, Magners and Bulmers are for the most part sickly horribleness: of those, Bulmers is the best of a bad bunch. Don't even think about touching any white cider (white lightning, white ace, white star, etc.)

Weston's is probably the most widely available "proper" cider in the UK: I don't know about its overseas market. Aspall's is also not too hard to find - it's of the "blended" type but still tastes ok. Old Rosie is pretty good, all things considered, and, if you can find it, Sheppey's is also well worth a go. The best places to get hold of proper cider tend to be beer festivals, food fairs, or specialist shops. If you're in or visiting London, for instance, there's a stall at Borough Market that sells a variety of some very nice New Forest ciders at a pretty reasonable price. Supermarkets will usually have a limited selection, though, and you can sometimes find some unusual ones on offer.

As advised previously, though, cider is a lot stronger than beer, so bear that in mind. Best to think of it like a light wine rather than a strong beer, and don't try to match your beer-drinking friends for volume unless you have an iron constitution!

[Raimun]

It's totally cool to not drink alcohol or just drink only one. I'm pretty sure no one is counting how many beers everyone has been drinking.

However, I couldn't stand to be the only one sober in a party where everyone else is drinking. Personally, I find that pretty jarring. Therefore, beer. :smalltongue:

As for the taste, well, it's a taste. I like beer, some don't. I don't like blue cheese but I can understand that other people do.

[tyckspoon]

In the U.S., the only major cider producer I know of is Woodchuck. To be honest, I don't know how it compares with British cider.

Around here I can find Woodchuck in most stores, Angry Orchard and Strongbow relatively cheaply in specialty stores, and a selection of imports in *really good* specialty shops. Woodchuck would be the cider equivalent of Budweiser/Miller/et al; it's not much like 'real cider', but it's relatively cheap, you can get it most places without a lot of work, and it's easy to drink. The main difference (aside from actually having a cost instead of the nearly-free price point of really cheap beers) is that a bad cider is far and away more drinkable than a bad beer.

[WalkingTarget]

I suppose I could have been more specific.

I've had lots of Woodchuck (several varieties), I think it's passable as a pretty inoffensive option and is widely available where I've been.

Strongbow was an option in many of the stores/bars around where I went to grad school (and I've discovered that it's available on tap at least one of the bars where I am now). I like it about as much as Woodchuck, but that's not terribly hard to get.

I've had Magners a time or two.

Hmm, at least a few others. Original Sin?

The only one I can remember being in the store near me now was Woodchuck. There were other brands that I'm not familiar with. I'll do some reconnaissance here in a while.

[Aedilred]

The other thing about real cider is that, like real ale, it should be served at "room temperature" - in reality slightly below room temperature - rather than "ice cold" as many bars do. There shouldn't be any ice anywhere near them, either. Don't believe any of this "Magners - made for ice" stuff.

Of course, most of the fizzy cider tastes horrible at room temperature, which is why it's served so cold.

[noparlpf]

Around here ciders seem to be even less alcoholic than beers. I've seen a couple in the house because that's the only kind of alcohol my mum can tolerate at all and she has a little occasionally.

[WalkingTarget]

Ok, rundown of what's across the street.

3 varieties of Crispin: Crisp, Extra Dry (both of which say "over ice" on the box - I've had iced cider in a restaurant once, was very confused), and a spot on the shelf for "Browns Lane" which claims to be imported, but they were out.

3 varieties of Angry Orchard: Traditional Dry, Crisp Apple, and Apple Ginger.

2 kinds of Hornsby's: Amber Draft and Crisp Apple.

2 kinds of Woodchuck: Amber and Granny Smith (I've had these before, don't particularly care for the latter).

And a Michelob Ultra Light Cider, which I assume I'm safe in ignoring.

This being a college town, there's probably a wider variety at at least one liquor store somewhere, but I haven't made a wide search in the 2 months I've lived here.

[JoshL]

Sounds like I really need to get to the UK so you folks can take me on a cider tour!

As for alcohol by volume, most US commercial "beers" tend to be in the 2-3% range. An average micro/European beer will be around 5-10%, depending on style. It's not unusual to find stouts over 10, and barleywines are usually around 12-15%. Then you get into the high octane brews, Avery out of Colorado does some tasty stouts around 20%, and Dogfish Head's World Wide Stout is often around 23% (it's a seasonal brew, and varies year to year. They do a couple other high alcohol brews, but overall they're kinda hit or miss for me).

Of course, if you are used to higher ABV brews, and a friend from Poland warns you to be careful of the Polish beer, you should not laugh when you see it's 6%. That would be rude, and for people drinking Pabst, that is a fair warning!

[Keld Denar]

2-3%? Hardly. I don't know any crappy american lager that is less than 4%.
Normal
Miller (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/105/2280) 4.66% ABV
Budweiser (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/65) 5.0% ABV
Light
Busch Light (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/1390) 4.1% ABV
Coors Light (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/306/837) 4.2% ABV
Bud Light (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/1320) 4.2% ABV
Natural Light (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/1524) 4.2% ABV
Ice
Bud Ice (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/1642) 5.5% ABV
Icehouse (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/105/1299) 5.5% ABV

Ice beers are naturally higher, due to the concentrating process of ice filtering.

Do note, however, that like wine, it is very difficult to brew a beer with a higher ABV than about 13%, as the fermentation process itself is self limiting. The alcohol retards the digestion of the bacteria that produces alcohol. Higher alcohol contents can be produced through various concentrating processes such as ice filtering (freezing some of the water out) or distilling (boiling off the alcohol and collecting it), or simply the addition of other, higher concentration alcohols (obtained via distillation).

[JoshL]

I stand corrected! Though in my defense, I haven't had beer like that in years, though there was a surprisingly good local cheap dark lager by a purveyor of swill...Augustiner Dark by the home of Iron City. Sadly, no longer made. Either way, a far cry from, say, anything that Stone brews.

I also don't really know belgians because I don't like them (generally too hopsy for me), but I know they can get pretty stiff too.

Now I want beer....

[thubby]

Now I want beer....

indeed, you people drive me to drink.

[noparlpf]

Sounds like I really need to get to the UK so you folks can take me on a cider tour!

As for alcohol by volume, most US commercial "beers" tend to be in the 2-3% range. An average micro/European beer will be around 5-10%, depending on style. It's not unusual to find stouts over 10, and barleywines are usually around 12-15%. Then you get into the high octane brews, Avery out of Colorado does some tasty stouts around 20%, and Dogfish Head's World Wide Stout is often around 23% (it's a seasonal brew, and varies year to year. They do a couple other high alcohol brews, but overall they're kinda hit or miss for me).

Of course, if you are used to higher ABV brews, and a friend from Poland warns you to be careful of the Polish beer, you should not laugh when you see it's 6%. That would be rude, and for people drinking Pabst, that is a fair warning!

I don't remember what my grandfather drinks but he gets it at the supermarket (unless my aunt brings in a case of Japanese beer or he's been to Canada lately). His regular beer is 7.5%, I think.

[Aedilred]

British "bitter" tends to be on the mild side, ABV speaking (usually about 3-4.5%); apparently this is a legacy of the Industrial Revolution. Other ales and lagers usually clock in above 4.5%. A true IPA should apparently be over 6% (it had to be brewed stronger to survive the journey) although they're now normally on a par with other beers.

If you ever see anything marketed as a "barley wine", that's a very strong beer. The strongest stuff I've had, I think, is Imperial Russian Stoat which the internet tells me is 9% but I could have sworn was 12. Maybe that's just the hangover speaking.

[JoshL]

I've had a couple Russian Imperial Stouts that were around 12, so you might be right on that. They're sort of trendy these days in the US; lots of micros are doing them that weren't 4 years ago (I am in favor of this).

In researching, I found this: http://www.brewdog.com/product/tactical-nuclear-penguin Leave it to the Scots. Haven't had any of their stuff since it's pretty expensive here in the US, but that's pretty impressive. Countered by Schorschbrau http://www.benz-weltweit.de/derbraeuvomberch/index_eng.html who has the current record at 57%. Damn. Of course, they only made 36 bottles of the stuff, so I'm not sure how much that REALLY counts. And no exploding penguin jokes, so they definitely lose points for that.

I like my beers full bodied, stiff and whimsical!

[grimbold]

my only real experience with beer is at metal bars (and the occasional family gathering)

at metal bars the rule is, finish your beer before the next set starts, or lose it and be sad :C

this can involve some chugging, which is fun, but probably not good for you...

at 16 i'm still not sure how much to drink when, so i usualy just try to do as the people i'm talking too do

(also as a metal critic i get lots of free beers from bands)

[Castaras]

Ciders round here... There are a gazillion of them (slight exaggeration)

The thing with Cider in the UK is that a large amount of farms, especially doon south, make their own ciders. So you have lots of own brand scrumpy (if you're ever in the UK, there's an easy way to tell how good a farm cider is: the worse the signposting to the farm, the better the cider is likely to be :smalltongue:), and then you have all the different brands of ciders, and in amongst those brands you have different sorts of ciders.

Brands I can list off the top of my head would be:

Kopparberg (normal, pear, strawberry, mixed fruit...)
Magners (not sure on varieties)
Strongbow (Moose urine)
Bulmers (strawberry is better than strongbow, rest are about the same)
Merrydown (if you can find it, beautiful)
Jacobs (quite strong)
Old Rosie (Gut rot, but delicious. Very strong)
Thatchers (Quite nice)
Black Rat (Also nice)

Issue with cider, especially the stronger ones, is you normally drink it like beer (pints/half pints and out the bottle), Where cider can be up to and over twice as strong as beer.

But yes. Favourite cider I've tried was one I had at a small farm in dorset, which they sold in plastic milk bottle style containers. Was heavenly.

[Serpentine]

I'm a fellow disliker of beers. --Lime-- of yon forums took it upon himself to find a beer that I like in York. In the end, he found two - and I'm now pretty sure there's others out there, too. Trouble is, I liked them because they tasted kinda like cider... But anyway, I recommend that you look at fruitier beers, if you get a chance. One of them was Liefmans, a cherry beer, if you can find it.
We also found a beer that tastes like bread. Burnt bread, but still. Also the scrumpy I had stung my mouth.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Been putting off posting in this thread for some reason. Short answer to the OP:
nope! There's no problem with that whatsoever. I'm a bit of an odd duck in that when I'm not out at a pub (usually with Playgrounders) I tend to average one alcoholic drink every couple of months. With a few exceptions. For the good of your health never play a drinking game with Dominic Deegan when the snark thread makes up the rules. It gets you through a lot of alcohol very quickly.
So when I do hang out with my mates I tend to drink a fair bit, but don't seem to noticeably act too different from when I'm sober. Usually I get a mixer or a cocktail and alternate with plain fizzy pop.
But there's certainly nothing wrong with not drinking anything alcoholic.


I'm from the Westcountry where we take our cider seriously. :smalltongue:

West Country girl here. This is very true.


Ignoring the cheap supermarket level brands that 16 year olds get drunk on, like White Lightning, you get the main commerical brands like Strongbow which aren't really much better (Scrumpy is probably the best of the lot).

White Lightning is godawful. Around here even the areas with the really bad reputations look down upon drinkers of White Lightning. Of course, said drinkers are now limited to tourists, those idiot rich kids who infest Nequay every summer and some people who have less than savoury reputations concerning the care of their families.
However, I do think that Strongbow's just about tolerable is you get Strongbow and blackcurrant. If someone else's buying it for you. :smalltongue:
Problem with scrumpy though is that because it's easy to make you can boil your brain with it. And that everyone can make it, so there's a lot of choice around if you know where to look.


A word of warning for Americans and other people used to American beer, cider is generally a fair bit stronger than beer and it's very easy to drunker than you expect, especially when drinking it in pints.

And cider is alcoholic here. You have no idea how confused I was the first time I heard an American parent telling their child that they can have cider with their lunch.
I was about eight, that child was four.
Then it took a turn for the funny as I was in a Tescos and half the people within earshot were staring at the parent as if well, they'd just offered to buy said toddler alcohol. And then the dad's face when he asked where the cider was and was pointed to the alcohol section.


Well, that's obviously an entirely American list, which limits it rather. If you're including northern Europe, I doubt there's anywhere in the USA that would make it into the "top 10 beer cities". In fact I doubt there can be many in the "top 100".

American beer is no longer (all) a byword for "rats' urine" but I think they still have a fair way to go to catch up with Germany, Belgium, the Czech Republic, England, the Netherlands, et al.

The more well-known American beers are known as appallingly weak, with little more flavour than water. Then again Stella Artois is Belgian and that's known as a wife-beater.
That and Foster's is another lager/beer with a bad reputation.


The only places that are really geared up, therefore, to produce decent ciders are those which already have the trees in situ and usually have quite a long tradition of growing cider apples. Principally, the cider belt in England (between about Devon and Herefordshire) and Normandy. There are a couple of pockets elsewhere that have managed to produce decent ciders, normally by combining dessert apples with cooking apples to produce something like a cider apple taste, although they still tend to be sweeter.

And in said cider belt and the West Country in general there are so many cider producers that it's not uncommon for two pubs so close together they actually share a beer garden/smoking area to only have two types of cider in common. And they regularly stock about eight each.


Weston's is probably the most widely available "proper" cider in the UK: I don't know about its overseas market. Aspall's is also not too hard to find - it's of the "blended" type but still tastes ok. Old Rosie is pretty good, all things considered, and, if you can find it, Sheppey's is also well worth a go. The best places to get hold of proper cider tend to be beer festivals, food fairs, or specialist shops. If you're in or visiting London, for instance, there's a stall at Borough Market that sells a variety of some very nice New Forest ciders at a pretty reasonable price. Supermarkets will usually have a limited selection, though, and you can sometimes find some unusual ones on offer.

I find Aspall's a little too dry personally, especially their pear cider; however, it's becoming more popular as of late.
I've not had Old Rosie in years, but it's strong as Hell if you're not used to it, so if you try that make sure pace yourself.


Ciders round here... There are a gazillion of them (slight exaggeration)

The thing with Cider in the UK is that a large amount of farms, especially doon south, make their own ciders. So you have lots of own brand scrumpy (if you're ever in the UK, there's an easy way to tell how good a farm cider is: the worse the signposting to the farm, the better the cider is likely to be :smalltongue:), and then you have all the different brands of ciders, and in amongst those brands you have different sorts of ciders.

Speaking as the most southern Britlander itP (as far as we know) you'll find that in Cornwall most pubs have an exclusive cider - that is, one that only they and perhaps two or three other local pubs stock - that tends to be on seasonal tap.
Certainly off to top of my head I can name a good half dozen local breweries (as in within thirty miles from my house), one of which is maybe half an hour's casual walk away.
So yes, local brews for local people, although if it's popular enough it does take off some. Take Cornish Rattler (http://www.cornishrattler.co.uk/newssstory.htm). Started off at sixteen local pubs, and is now stocked in some four hundred pubs, and in several supermarket chains throughout the West Country.

This is the alcoholic anthem of the West Country (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zwwqEm5YhQ). That's how important and prevalent it is.
Note too the age of the audience. We start 'em young.
Also this because you can't mention cider, the West Country and the Wurzels without this song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btEpF334Rtc&NR=1&feature=fvwp)


Brands I can list off the top of my head would be:

Kopparberg (normal, pear, strawberry, mixed fruit...)

Despite my knowledge of cider I'm not much of a cider drinker (in comparison), but Kopparberg is easily my favourite fruit cider.


Issue with cider, especially the stronger ones, is you normally drink it like beer (pints/half pints and out the bottle), Where cider can be up to and over twice as strong as beer.

But yes. Favourite cider I've tried was one I had at a small farm in dorset, which they sold in plastic milk bottle style containers. Was heavenly.

General advice is to only have a few pints of cider thoughout the night. Two or three max. And really it's probably best to get them in half pints, but everyone knows men only drink pints. :smalltongue:

EDIT:
If you can't tell Britain takes its drinking etiquette and experience seriously. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BritishPubs) I'm always amused by that page, especially when you compare its length to pages about things technically more important.

[WalkingTarget]

And cider is alcoholic here. You have no idea how confused I was the first time I heard an American parent telling their child that they can have cider with their lunch.
I was about eight, that child was four.
Then it took a turn for the funny as I was in a Tescos and half the people within earshot were staring at the parent as if well, they'd just offered to buy said toddler alcohol. And then the dad's face when he asked where the cider was and was pointed to the alcohol section.

Yeah, "cider" over here is more commonly an unfiltered apple juice you can get in the fall (I prefer mine directly from local orchards, although you can sometimes find something approximating it in grocery stores too). No alcohol content at all unless you let it turn, which is more likely to result in vinegar than anything drinkable. One of my favorite beverages in general when I can get it and it's much more commonly known than the hard version here, in my experience.

[noparlpf]

Yeah, "cider" over here is more commonly an unfiltered apple juice you can get in the fall (I prefer mine directly from local orchards, although you can sometimes find something approximating it in grocery stores too). No alcohol content at all unless you let it turn, which is more likely to result in vinegar than anything drinkable. One of my favorite beverages in general when I can get it and it's much more commonly known than the hard version here, in my experience.

Yeah, non-alcoholic cider is good. I've tried one hard cider that was fair, and a pear cider that was also good.

[Jay R]

DO NOT DRINK BEER FOR ANY REASON EXCEPT THAT YOU WANT TO DO SO.

It is always acceptable to drink water, in any social situation. It is never polite to sneer at what somebody else is drinking. (Admittedly, lots of people do so anyway.)

Stick to your convictions and drink for yourself, not somebody else.

[Aedilred]

Yeah, non-alcoholic cider is good. I've tried one hard cider that was fair, and a pear cider that was also good.
Perry, you mean? </pedantry>

[noparlpf]

Perry, you mean? </pedantry>

No idea, it was a slightly fizzy pear cider with something like 4% alcohol content.
Edit: Oh, Google says that's the word for it. So yes.

[Aedilred]

To clarify:

"Pear cider" is a recently coined marketing term to attempt to foist the otherwise fairly obscure drink Perry onto cider drinkers. This is both confusing, and annoying for those of us who have always known what perry is. It's not a cider at all; it's brewed from pears, so it's no more a "pear cider" than wine is a "grape cider".

It's also confusing because "fruit cider" is normally used to refer to a(n apple) cider that's been flavoured with fruit, like some of the Kopparbergs - strawberry cider, etc.. So a "pear cider" now can be either a perry (usually) or a cider flavoured with pears.

I don't blame the punters for it, because they'll have no idea what a perry is until it's sold to them as a pear cider, but the marketing annoys me. As an insufferably pedantic old git who increasingly misses his western homeland, I make myself unpopular by correcting the error at every opportunity, but I feel I'm fighting a losing battle.

[noparlpf]

To clarify:

"Pear cider" is a recently coined marketing term to attempt to foist the otherwise fairly obscure drink Perry onto cider drinkers. This is both confusing, and annoying for those of us who have always known what perry is. It's not a cider at all; it's brewed from pears, so it's no more a "pear cider" than wine is a "grape cider".

It's also confusing because "fruit cider" is normally used to refer to a(n apple) cider that's been flavoured with fruit, like some of the Kopparbergs - strawberry cider, etc.. So a "pear cider" now can be either a perry (usually) or a cider flavoured with pears.

I don't blame the punters for it, because they'll have no idea what a perry is until it's sold to them as a pear cider, but the marketing annoys me. As an insufferably pedantic old git who increasingly misses his western homeland, I make myself unpopular by correcting the error at every opportunity, but I feel I'm fighting a losing battle.

That's fair. But a bit of Googling suggests that the meaning of cider referring specifically to apples is relatively recent, and it used to apply to any fermented fruit drink.

[Brother Oni]

This is the alcoholic anthem of the West Country (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zwwqEm5YhQ). That's how important and prevalent it is.
Note too the age of the audience. We start 'em young.
Also this because you can't mention cider, the West Country and the Wurzels without this song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btEpF334Rtc&NR=1&feature=fvwp)



EDIT:
If you can't tell Britain takes its drinking etiquette and experience seriously. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BritishPubs) I'm always amused by that page, especially when you compare its length to pages about things technically more important.

You are an evil, evil woman.

*spends the next hour reading TV tropes and listening to the Wurzels, while the wife rolls her eyes in the background*


That's fair. But a bit of Googling suggests that the meaning of cider referring specifically to apples is relatively recent, and it used to apply to any fermented fruit drink.

Not down here it isn't... *Begins sharpening the pitchforks and lighting the torches*

[Bill Murphy]

It's not rude to drink something other than beer in a beer drinking group.
It's rude for the beer drinkers to make you feel un comfortable about it.

Here is a tip. If they pressure you, ask for Guiness. (It's expensive and probably spelt wrong) When they say they don't have any, just give them a dead stare and say "I'll just have a soda then." :smallwink:

[Aedilred]

But that way, if they do have Guinness you have to drink it. If the OP doesn't like beer, there's no way he's going to enjoy a Guinness.

[pendell]

But that way, if they do have Guinness you have to drink it. If the OP doesn't like beer, there's no way he's going to enjoy a Guinness.

If the OP doesn't like beer, this is true.

OTOH, if his only exposure to beer is Budweiser or Coors, Guinness may open up a whole new world to him. I know that I detested beer until I found out that there was more to beer than the mass-produced American stuff like Miller.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[nyjastul69]

I can't afford any better information in regards to alcohol than has been posted here. I will say, if someone who is drinking alcohol questions your not drinking alcohol, they're probably more concerned with their own drinking and not yours.

@ polity4life: I gotta find out if Dragonmead is available over here in the armpit of new england. The name alone makes me want to try one.

Crap! Dragonmead is the microbrewery. My bad. Maybe I should move to MI. Not just for the beer of course, the local economy has to be better than here.

[CurlyKitGirl]

You are an evil, evil woman.

*spends the next hour reading TV tropes and listening to the Wurzels, while the wife rolls her eyes in the background*

*cackles gleefully*
My plan worked to perfection!
Oi drove moi trackder through yer 'aystack las' noight
Oo ar oo ar
I threw moi pitchfork at yer dog to keep quiet
Oo ar oo ar

[Aedilred]

*cackles gleefully*
My plan worked to perfection!
Oi drove moi trackder through yer 'aystack las' noight
Oo ar oo ar
I threw moi pitchfork at yer dog to keep quiet
Oo ar oo ar
Now something's telling me that you'm avoiding me
Oo arr oo arr
Come on now darlin' you got somethin' I need

(all together now)

[Brother Oni]

*Stands up to sing the Westcountry anthem*

'Cos oi've got a brand new combine 'arvester and oi'll give you the key,
Come on now let's get together in perfect 'armony,
Oh I's got 20 acres and you got 43,
Now oi've got a brand new combine 'arvester and oi'll give you the key!

Edit: Anybody heard this version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWho6xT9Cgk)? I'm unsure what to make of it: on one hand, I'm disappointed that someone felt the need to improve upon perfection; the other hand is helping to pick myself off the floor from laughing too hard. :smallbiggrin:

[JoshL]

Seconding pendell's opinion, my girlfriend's mother thought she hated beer for most of her life. Had a Guiness a few years back. Now loves beer and she and I always get micros together.

Guiness is an excellent "starter beer". It's flavorful and rich, but pretty thin bodied. It can be consumed fast if that's what you want (see: Car Bombs), but is pretty nice to enjoy slow. And if you're drinking slow, your beer WILL warm up, might as well have something that tastes good warm too. (note to UK drinkers, yes, yes, I know!) It's easy to find, and it's nowhere near as expensive as most good beers (though still might be hard to find at a party with Coors). And it's a good fall back at restaurants and bars...even if they have nothing else drinkable, they'll have Guiness.

...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...

[Brother Oni]

Guiness is an excellent "starter beer". It's flavorful and rich, but pretty thin bodied.

Guinness is thin bodied? Just to make sure we're talking about the same drink, you mean this stuff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Guinness.jpg)?

If it is, I have no idea what they're serving you over there as the stuff you get in the UK has a very thick treacly texture, which in turn is regarded as absolute dog [redacted] by the Irish who get the proper stuff.



...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...

Sounds like to me, you need another drink (or three) then. :smalltongue:

[Aedilred]

If it is, I have no idea what they're serving you over there as the stuff you get in the UK has a very thick treacly texture, which in turn is regarded as absolute dog [redacted] by the Irish who get the proper stuff.
Although this might once have been true, it's not any longer. I think it's just something the Irish like to tell us to make us feel inferior... When I set out in Dublin a couple of years ago to try proper Guinness, I was slightly disappointed to find that it was indeed exactly the same as the stuff we get here.


Edit: Anybody heard this version? I'm unsure what to make of it: on one hand, I'm disappointed that someone felt the need to improve upon perfection; the other hand is helping to pick myself off the floor from laughing too hard.
That did make me laugh. Although, considering, I thought they could have done a bit more with it.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Now something's telling me that you'm avoiding me
Oo arr oo arr
Come on now darlin' you got somethin' I need

(all together now)


*Stands up to sing the Westcountry anthem*

'Cos oi've got a brand new combine 'arvester and oi'll give you the key,
Come on now let's get together in perfect 'armony,
Oh I's got 20 acres and you got 43,
Now oi've got a brand new combine 'arvester and oi'll give you the key!

*wipes a tear from her eyes*
It's so beautiful that in this day, in the age of the internet a parody song from 1976 is still so well known.


Edit: Anybody heard this version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWho6xT9Cgk)? I'm unsure what to make of it: on one hand, I'm disappointed that someone felt the need to improve upon perfection; the other hand is helping to pick myself off the floor from laughing too hard. :smallbiggrin:

It's oddly fascinating. Especially when that random guy starts shouting . . . something - jump? - towards the end.


...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...

Oh really?
You sure about that? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSLk7u2jtIE)
Really sure? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zbtAxQdZcU&NR=1&feature=endscreen)


Guinness is thin bodied? Just to make sure we're talking about the same drink, you mean this stuff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Guinness.jpg)?

If it is, I have no idea what they're serving you over there as the stuff you get in the UK has a very thick treacly texture, which in turn is regarded as absolute dog [redacted] by the Irish who get the proper stuff.

That what I thought. It's generally perceived as one of the higher quality, full-bodied beers.
God, I need more of a drinker's vocabulary for this thread now.
It's all Wurzels, cider and beer.
What have we done to this innocent pub etiquette thread? :smallcool:


Sounds like to me, you need another drink (or three) then. :smalltongue:

Quick! Nip 'round your local pub/farm and bring samples of all the cider they make/sell! The more scumb - scrumpy the more susceptible he'll be to the Wurzels.



That did make me laugh. Although, considering, I thought they could have done a bit more with it.

Imagine a Wurzels mashup!
I Am A Cider Drinker/Combine Harvester!

'Ow's yer farther, all right?

[Aedilred]

Imagine a Wurzels mashup!
I Am A Cider Drinker/Combine Harvester!
A friend of mine once concocted a mashup of Combine Harvester and Zadok the Priest. He claimed it was "perfect".

I've asked him for a copy, if he still has one, so you can see if you share his opinion.

'Ow's yer farther, all right?
Steady on, me lover, we barely know each other. :smallredface:

[snoopy13a]

I've heard that Guinness deteriorates crossing the ocean so it tastes different in the U.S. than Ireland (unlike Harp, they don't brew Guinness in North America). I find this explanation dubious, and I think the beer tastes the same on both sides of the pond.

Also, I'm a little tired of the criticism of North American beers. Budweiser, Miller, Molson, and Labatt's are brewed a certain way for a reason. They aren't supposed to be hoppy and complex. Not all beer should be brewed like a microbrew. Not all beer must be dark. The beer snobs think everyone should share their tastes; their views become tiresome.

I don't mind people liking microbrews; I like microbrews. I mind people sneering at others for liking light bodied pilsners and lagers. Beer is to be enjoyed; if I enjoy drinking a pitcher of Blue Light with my friends while watching a hockey game, then what is it to you?

It is ok to like many different kinds of beer; it is not ok to be a beer snob.

[Aedilred]

Also, I'm a little tired of the criticism of North American beers. Budweiser, Miller, Molson, and Labatt's are brewed a certain way for a reason. They aren't supposed to be hoppy and complex. Not all beer should be brewed like a microbrew. Not all beer must be dark. The beer snobs think everyone should share their tastes; their views become tiresome.

I don't mind people liking microbrews; I like microbrews. I mind people sneering at others for liking light bodied pilsners and lagers. Beer is to be enjoyed; if I enjoy drinking a pitcher of Blue Light with my friends while watching a hockey game, then what is it to you?
There's nothing wrong with drinking Bud, or whatever, so long as you know what you're doing. What's frustrating is that most people never branch out beyond that limited horizon. I understand that the cheap lagers are brewed that way for a reason, but I don't think that reason is "mass appeal" so much as "minimal cost". The main reason I don't like commercial lager is that it's so full of chemicals that not only does it taste (imo) horrible but it gives you a killer hangover.

Of course not all beer should be dark; my favoured beer type is actually a pale ale. I'm also a fan of proper lager. However, I don't really like commercial lager as a product, I don't like the way they've come to dominate the market despite their lack of merit, and I don't like most of the companies that produce them. If people drink them because they actually like the beer, that's one thing. If people drink them because they've been convinced somehow that it's the only beer available, or the only "acceptable" beer, then I'm going to challenge that, and I'll always encourage people to try as many beers as possible given the opportunity so that they can make an informed choice.

[Brother Oni]

'Ow's yer farther, all right?


Steady on, me lover, we barely know each other. :smallredface:

I wonder how Westcountry we could go before we become unintelligible to someone outside the UK, yet still be able to hold a proper conversation? :smallbiggrin:

[Aedilred]

I wonder how Westcountry we could go before we become unintelligible to someone outside the UK, yet still be able to hold a proper conversation? :smallbiggrin:
About this far (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM45TACI4H4&feature=related)?

[noparlpf]

I wonder how Westcountry we could go before we become unintelligible to someone outside the UK, yet still be able to hold a proper conversation? :smallbiggrin:

I can actually understand it pretty well, I just can't write it or speak it well.

Edit:

About this far (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM45TACI4H4&feature=related)?

Yup, just about that far. After a few tries I can pick up a few words from each of them.

Edit:
I HOPE YOU'RE ALL HAPPY. Now I've had "Combine Harvester" stuck in my head all afternoon during tae kwon do practice. Threw off my rhythm a few times too.

[Knaight]

Also, I'm a little tired of the criticism of North American beers. Budweiser, Miller, Molson, and Labatt's are brewed a certain way for a reason. They aren't supposed to be hoppy and complex. Not all beer should be brewed like a microbrew. Not all beer must be dark. The beer snobs think everyone should share their tastes; their views become tiresome.
It's price minimization, plain and simple. There are some very good light bodied pilsners and lagers, that list doesn't include any of them. Generally speaking, they also come from microbrews, which are by no means restricted to hoppy and complex beers.

[JoshL]

Regarding Guiness. Guiness Draught, which is most common here, is full in flavor, but not in body. Guiness Extra Stout is only sold in bottles here in the US. According to Wikipedia, it also goes by "Guiness Original" in some parts of the world, so it's very likely that's what is common on your side of the pond. And that is thicker...a "proper" stout. Either that or I need to rethink opinions given to me by the "Real Ale" types :smallwink:

Regarding "beer snobbery" the term is generally self-effacing. Me, I don't care what you drink (though when drinking with friends, sharing tastes of new beers is half the fun). If I'm at a party where there is only crappy beer, I might have a crappy beer. But given a choice, they're not to my tastes. I'm a geek...I think way too much about things, so I know a lot about what I'm drinking. If I call myself a beer snob, I'm taking a cheap, yet accurate shot at myself.

And beer snobs do not think everyone should share their tastes. I do not like belgians. I do not like hoppy beers. Those are two of the more popular preferences among that crowd. But no one who has drank with me thinks I don't know what I'm talking about. At the end of the day, beer=awesome, and good times for all. If that involves drinking Labatt's, there's nothing wrong with that. Though I'll be the first to say that Harp is considerably less good since Labatt's started brewing it :smallwink:

And I support people buying me copious amounts of scrumpy until I start singing along with the Wurzels. I blame Nevermind the Buzzcocks for my even knowing who they are.

[Topus]

cheap rum still tastes like rum.
Cheap rum tastes like gasoline with sugar. Cheap alcohol is always a tough drink. As for the beer, i think that drinking a Corona from the bottle, with a slice of lemon in it, is a good way to start for those who don't like the bitter taste. The bitter is mitigated by the zesty flavour of lemon but it's not suffocated as in fruity sweet drinks as ciders, so you can slowly build a taste for bitter and enjoy another part of the flavour spectrum ;)

[pffh]

Just going to bring it back to nursing one beer for a while night for a moment. The problem with that is that the beer gets flat after a while and in most cases flat beer is disgusting.

[Jay R]

There's a stunt used a couple of times at parties. Go into the kitchen when nobody else is there, and mix Coke and 7-Up (or the equivalent). It now looks like a mixed drink to the drinkers.

These days, when I don't want to drink, I don't, and that's my choice. But the protective coloration can help.

[Thufir]

I wonder how Westcountry we could go before we become unintelligible to someone outside the UK, yet still be able to hold a proper conversation? :smallbiggrin:

Not very far. A bit further and you'd become unintelligible to people from non-West-Country parts of the UK as well.

[Archonic Energy]

...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...I will not get coaxed into a Wurzels sing along...

# I am a cider drinker... I drinks it all of the day...
I am a cider drinker... it sooths all me troubles away...
ooh arr ooh arr ey, ooh arr ooh arr ey... #

[pendell]

I'm curious how this works in Japan. I was reading Culture Shock! Japan (http://www.amazon.com/CultureShock-Japan-Survival-Etiquette-Cultureshock/dp/0761454888/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349109948&sr=8-1&keywords=culture+shock+japan). The book advises that if invited to a party you have two choices:

1) Say firmly "Thanks, but I do not drink", and drink tea, soft drinks et al for the night.

2) Drink every toast etc and get utterly stinking drunk.

I'm wondering if there's an alternative. I think the above poster is right in that alcohol allows one to say things that are otherwise unacceptable in polite society ... but I remember watching an anime in which one of the stars took one tiny glass, stated "I am now tipsy", and then proceeded to give her significant other fifteen different kinds of peace of mind. So the forms were observed. Even if the lady wasn't actually drunk, she's still gone through the motions of drinking alcohol and thereby getting social cover for doing what had to be done.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Karen Lynn]

Blue Moon is an inexpensive, lightish wheat beer you can get out that way that I think is a very nice "starter beer" (put a slice of orange in your glass/bottle for added deliciousnessas that is the only way to properly drink Blue Moon).


Fixed that for ya.


I have a couple of suggestions:

1) Milwaukee's Best: Simply by its name, you know it is good. This beer combines choice ingredients with a crisp finish. After all, it isn't Milwaukee's Worst.

2) Natural Light: This beer is organic--at least its name suggests that it is organic. It has a nice metallic taste and as a light beer, it isn't filling.

3) Coors Light: The famous silver bullet. It has a rich, complex favor and is quite heavy. It is made in the Rocky Mountains as you can tell from the can. It also has fancy color-coded technology that will tell you the optimal temperature for drinking this fine brew.

4) Budweiser: The king of beers. All other beers pay it tribute (seriously, they do). Fun fact: Budweiser is so upscale that is uses an exotic grain, rice, in its brewing process. Budweiser is famous for its complex hops which lend a spicy aftertaste.

5) Labatt's Blue: An import from the exotic and mysterous nation of Canada. Contrary to its name, Labatt's Blue is not, in fact, blue--actually, it is more of a yellow. However, drinking it won't make you blue either. Labatt's represents the best aspects of Canada--hockey, ballet, Tim Horton's, the good side of Niagara Falls, and hockey--in a twelve ounce can.

Now that's you've learned about North America's finest brews, you too can be a beer expert.

Yeah... No... Don't drink American. I'm from Oklahoma, and live just north of Milwaukee now. Milwaukee's Best is nicknamed "Beast" for a reason... It's like drinking Piss water with some alcohol in it.

I am a beer snob, but that's because I've learned better.

I usually drink Guinness, Leinie's, Blue Moon, and any number of microbrews, local brews, craft beers, and imports. I have a taste for darker stouts and ales over all. I find that they actually taste good.

Also: Guinness is nicknamed "meal in a glass" for a reason. :thog:

EDIT: Going to add one of my new favorites from the other night: Strongbow. If you can find this, it is delicious. More of a Cider-y beer, but not too sweet. Has a nice, easy flavor.

[Brother Oni]

I'm curious how this works in Japan. I was reading Culture Shock! Japan (http://www.amazon.com/CultureShock-Japan-Survival-Etiquette-Cultureshock/dp/0761454888/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349109948&sr=8-1&keywords=culture+shock+japan).

The book appears to have rather mixed reviews, so I suggest taking any advice it makes with a pinch of salt.

In the situation of a party, it very much depends on the context of the party. Entertaining a client is very different from going out drinking with friends, which in turn is different from a goukon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_dating) (group blind date).



but I remember watching an anime in which one of the stars took one tiny glass, stated "I am now tipsy", and then proceeded to give her significant other fifteen different kinds of peace of mind. So the forms were observed. Even if the lady wasn't actually drunk, she's still gone through the motions of drinking alcohol and thereby getting social cover for doing what had to be done.

Actually, from first hand experience of Japanese people's alcohol tolerance, she probably was at least tipsy. :smalltongue:



EDIT: Going to add one of my new favorites from the other night: Strongbow. If you can find this, it is delicious. More of a Cider-y beer, but not too sweet. Has a nice, easy flavor.

Er, if it's this stuff (http://www.strongbowcider.us/home.html), then the reason why it tastes cider-y, is because it IS cider.

From the earlier cider discussion, you'll also note that it's regarded as one of the lower quality ciders (drinkable only with blackcurrant and if someone else is buying as mentioned by CurlyKitGirl).

Edit: D'oh, forgot that Americans have non-alcoholic cider. I wonder if 'cider beer' is the new marketing term for 'hard cider' over there?

[razark]

Edit: D'oh, forgot that Americans have non-alcoholic cider. I wonder if 'cider beer' is the new marketing term for 'hard cider' over there?
Never heard the term "cider beer" before. Fermented apple juice is referred to as "hard cider". Unless it's changed in the last few months. I suppose I'll have to make a trip to the liquor store. (Only for the sake of international curiosity, of course.)

[tyckspoon]

Never heard the term "cider beer" before. Fermented apple juice is referred to as "hard cider". Unless it's changed in the last few months. I suppose I'll have to make a trip to the liquor store. (Only for the sake of international curiosity, of course.)

It's still hard cider, or just cider when used in context that makes it obvious you're already talking about alcholic drinks. I wouldn't put it past some brewery to make up a new phrase and try to make themselves seem interesting by 'inventing' a new kind of drink, tho. An actual 'cider beer' would probably be labeled as a lambic, an 'x beer with Apple flavors', or an 'apple based malt beverage', depending on legal labeling requirements and the honesty/accuracy of the brewer (a 'malt beverage' is something that is made like a beer but for one reason or another does not meet US requirements to be labeled/marketed as a beer. I suspect it's a term you won't find in many other places.)

(I will note that most of the Strongbow I've seen around here is sold in cans, which could make it more difficult to correctly identify the kind of drink if you aren't already familiar with it.)

[Topus]

Also: Guinness is nicknamed "meal in a glass" for a reason. :thog:
Meal in a glass is also a perfect description of the belgian Delirium Tremens. So tasty, and so nourishing :smallbiggrin:

[noparlpf]

Yup, still have "Combine Harvester" stuck in my head.

[Aedilred]

Never heard the term "cider beer" before.
Is that like a lager beer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwXjm64a3QE)?

I've never heard of a "cider beer", either.

Yup, still have "Combine Harvester" stuck in my head.
Dammit, now you've set me off again.

Weren't we grand couple at the last Wurzel dance
Oo arr oo arr
...

[SDF]

Well, that's obviously an entirely American list, which limits it rather. If you're including northern Europe, I doubt there's anywhere in the USA that would make it into the "top 10 beer cities". In fact I doubt there can be many in the "top 100".

American beer is no longer (all) a byword for "rats' urine" but I think they still have a fair way to go to catch up with Germany, Belgium, the Czech Republic, England, the Netherlands, et al.

I'd completely disagree. In the Boise metro area we have like 30 microbreweries that have some of the best beer I've had. The pacific northwestern US has places like Rogue and Stone (well California). Most of Budweiser's hops come from Idaho, but we put them to much better use locally. I've tried a lot of imported award-winning German beer, and while some of its okay, they seem to look for something else when judging. There are lots of home brewers here too. Several hundred at the last local event I went to, and my city isn't that big. My girlfriend and I have recently started collecting the beer bottles of all the micros we have, I'll try and snap a picture of it tonight. For all the accolades I've heard about European beer I have yet to find one that has beaten out its regional (to me) counterparts. I'm open to brand suggestions though.

[pffh]

I'd completely disagree. In the Boise metro area we have like 30 microbreweries that have some of the best beer I've had. The pacific northwestern US has places like Rogue and Stone (well California). Most of Budweiser's hops come from Idaho, but we put them to much better use locally. I've tried a lot of imported award-winning German beer, and while some of its okay, they seem to look for something else when judging. There are lots of home brewers here too. Several hundred at the last local event I went to, and my city isn't that big. My girlfriend and I have recently started collecting the beer bottles of all the micros we have, I'll try and snap a picture of it tonight. For all the accolades I've heard about European beer I have yet to find one that has beaten out its regional (to me) counterparts. I'm open to brand suggestions though.

See the bolded part, that's your problem right there. When comparing top notch beers you don't drink imported stuff, you drink it locally brewed and from a tap.

[Karen Lynn]

I would like to see. Should be nice. Also, when is this? I may have to check it out.

[SDF]

See the bolded part, that's your problem right there. When comparing top notch beers you don't drink imported stuff, you drink it locally brewed and from a tap.

If thats the qualification then unless you are ridiculously traveled you can't make many statements about most beer. I'm comparing bottled beers to regionally bottled beers.

[snoopy13a]

See the bolded part, that's your problem right there. When comparing top notch beers you don't drink imported stuff, you drink it locally brewed and from a tap.

For me, Budweiser is locally brewed :smalltongue:

-I don't live in St. Louis, but I do live near one of their regional breweries.

[HeadlessMermaid]

I'm curious how this works in Japan. I was reading Culture Shock! Japan (http://www.amazon.com/CultureShock-Japan-Survival-Etiquette-Cultureshock/dp/0761454888/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349109948&sr=8-1&keywords=culture+shock+japan). The book advises that if invited to a party you have two choices:

1) Say firmly "Thanks, but I do not drink", and drink tea, soft drinks et al for the night.

2) Drink every toast etc and get utterly stinking drunk.

No idea if that's really the case (or when it's the case) in Japan. But I don't find it outlandish.

I have been in / heard of situations where refusing a drink could be considered mildly impolite--> rude--> deeply insulting. But it was almost exclusively in places where making wine/beer/other alcoholic beverages is part of the culture. Not the industry or the market, the culture. In such a community, alcohol consumption is a lot more that having a few kicks, it's a rite. Of bonding, mostly. And rites have rules.

For example, a toast may be a serious matter in that context. You greet or wish good health to someone, you "seal" the gesture by taking a sip or possibly emptying a cup (a rite, see?), and it's a lot like extending your hand for a handshake: you expect that person to extend his hand, too. So if he doesn't drink back to your toast, he is being terribly offensive. Sipping instead of drinking properly may be tolerated, or it may be the equivalent of a very weak and thus unconvincing handshake, as if he doesn't really mean it. But if he doesn't drink at all, you won't mind. In fact, since you know he doesn't drink, you won't initiate the toast at all.

Another example is the celebration of something important, like a wedding, or a wake. Unless you abstain from alcohol completely, it would be very rude to refuse to drink for the bride and groom (don't you wish them all the best?) or for the deceased (won't you honor his memory?). Again, it all stems from the ritual aspect of alcohol consumption: it "seals" and adds weight to so many things...

Third example, since I'm talking about wine(etc)-making cultures: it may be OK to refuse the beverage your host bought in the store, but what if he made it himself? Would you refuse to eat the food he cooked, too? Preposterous. You'd better have a very good reason.

And the most ubiquitous situation is when nothing special happens, except that you have a group of friends drinking. They all raise their glasses, and it's like saying "we're in this together". They push each other to drink, not because the goal is to get stone drunk, but because it's a "tactile" way of asserting again and again that they're equals, peers, friends. It won't be necessarily offensive to refuse a drink, but if there's not a solid reason (I'm driving, I'm on antibiotics, I'm a recovering alcoholic), pushing is very much expected.

Now, obviously, there's a difference between refusing the first glass and refusing the tenth. This is where it gets complicated, because for some cultures (or specific people) it's reasonable to stop drinking at point A, for others it's at point B, and for others only passing out will spare you the obligation. Is it limitless like that in Japan, at least in some occasions? Possibly. Another possibility is that the author of that book simply didn't drink enough to find out. :smallbiggrin:


Disclaimer: Please note that the above are from an anthropological point of view. :smalltongue: I'm not supporting any of it, I'm merely observing. If you don't want to drink, don't drink. And it should go without saying that these customs are a lot more pronounced in rural communities (especially where there's moonshine abundant), they get diluted when people move to a more urban environment, and become a rarity in the big city. Well, they can survive in a way, but most people don't take them too seriously any more.

[Brother Oni]

I have been in / heard of situations where refusing a drink could be considered mildly impolite--> rude--> deeply insulting. But it was almost exclusively in places where making wine/beer/other alcoholic beverages is part of the culture. Not the industry or the market, the culture. In such a community, alcohol consumption is a lot more that having a few kicks, it's a rite. Of bonding, mostly. And rites have rules.


In most of your examples (except for the home made one), you can normally substitute the alcoholic drink for any beverage. At a wedding for example, the bride and groom won't usually mind what you're drinking when the toast is made, as long as you raise something (bridezillas aside).

About the only exception I can think of is when it's a more a hazing ritual and you're expected to get absolutely hammered in order to 'prove' yourself to the group.
This is more likely the case when you're out with friends that you don't know particularly well (close friends won't care what you drink unless they're a bit of an idiot), or when it's a outing of solely males or a hen night.



This is where it gets complicated, because for some cultures (or specific people) it's reasonable to stop drinking at point A, for others it's at point B, and for others only passing out will spare you the obligation. Is it limitless like that in Japan, at least in some occasions? Possibly. Another possibility is that the author of that book simply didn't drink enough to find out. :smallbiggrin:


I suspect it's more specific people as while drunken behaviour is tolerated to a degree in Japan (I believe somebody made mention of the culturally accepted way of addressing issues only while drunk), you're not expected to get absolutely falling down drunk.

From what I know of Japanese drinking culture (at least for semi-formal occasions), there's etiquette involved, such as making sure your guest's cup is never empty, thus if your guest has poor self control, it may well end up being limitless by accident.

Judging from the reviews of the book, the author may be somewhat prejudiced in his views, for whatever reason.

[Aedilred]

If thats the qualification then unless you are ridiculously traveled you can't make many statements about most beer. I'm comparing bottled beers to regionally bottled beers.
Not necessarily; with the exception of some of the trappist beers which are only available at the monastery, it's fairly straightforward to transport barrels of beer around England, or Belgium, for instance. It's one of the reasons that places like Bruges and Brussels have such a reputation for beer: they have dozens if not hundreds of breweries basically on their doorstep.

I will echo the view that, particularly when it comes to ales and the like, draught is better than bottled, and it's difficult to get an accurate impression of the quality of an ale from the bottled version. Lager tends to bottle better.

Just about the best ale I've ever had was from Northumberland of all places, at a beer festival. Unfortunately it turns out it's very difficult to get hold of down south, and even the bigger beer festivals don't usually have any available.

In terms of continental beer I would have to recommend Kwak. Unfortunately my recollection of most German/Belgian/Czech beers is something along the lines of "that awesome beer I had in that place at that bar/beer festival and then fell over" and names elude me. But I've encountered Kwak often enough to recall it well, and it's very good.

[Topus]

In terms of continental beer I would have to recommend Kwak.
It's the one served in an hourglass shape glass, yes i remember it, quite strong and tasteful as any belgian beer. By vague assonance i'd also recommend the Eku 28, strong and flavoury but more on the lager side, as the danish Bjorne, also strong but with a fresher taste. (sorry for my lame use of adjectives, i'm not so good in english and i find difficult to correctly translate what i really want to say).

I'd also recommend, for a unique flavour, the corsican Pietra, made from chestnuts, with a good and persistent head of foam (if you like it) and a quite sweet aftertaste.

[Karen Lynn]

Getting back to the topic. Here in the States, the only people who would find it rude to not drink are the people whose idea of a good time is to get beyond drunk. In a social gathering, there really is no need to drink if you don't want to. If anyone tries to pressure you, just say one of three things:

1) Sorry, I don't drink.
2) Sorry, but I'm driving later.
3) Sorry, I just haven't found a beer I enjoy.

The third is one I rectified by asking bartenders what their favorite beer on tap was, and ask for a sample. Not quite your taste? Say so, and explain why. They will usually be able to find a beer for you by the fourth sample. If they do, buy one, and only one. Savor it. Make sure it is to your taste.

[Jay R]

If anyone tries to pressure you, just say one of three things:

1) Sorry, I don't drink.
2) Sorry, but I'm driving later.
3) Sorry, I just haven't found a beer I enjoy.


The second and third suggestions carry the same weakness - the implication that it's up for debate. You will likely get a reply of, "Oh, it's OK; you can stay here tonight" or "Really? Oh, let me help. Here, try these three beers."

The first one is likely to start a discussion on the merits of alcohol.

I prefer "No, thank you," followed by a change of subject. "Hey, how'd your team do last night?

[Asta Kask]

4) Sorry, but it interferes with my medicines.

Always works for me, although it's probably better if you're actually on meds.

[Aedilred]

The second and third suggestions carry the same weakness - the implication that it's up for debate. You will likely get a reply of, "Oh, it's OK; you can stay here tonight" or "Really? Oh, let me help. Here, try these three beers."

The first one is likely to start a discussion on the merits of alcohol.

I prefer "No, thank you," followed by a change of subject. "Hey, how'd your team do last night?
To be honest, though, the first (questioning your abstinence) is rude, and the second runs the risk of being tactless. There's nothing more annoying than when you're trying to refuse an kind offer politely, only for the other person to come up with increasingly elaborate work-arounds. While both situations do happen, if it comes up then at least you don't need to feel guilty about it, because the other person is being less polite than you are.


Although it's a situation I don't often find myself in, any of the following tend to suffice, and the most you get in response is a raised eyebrow before they get you something else:

1) I have to be up early.
2) I have to drive later.
3) I'm trying to cut back.
4) Can I have a <soft drink> to be going on with, please; I might have a <alcoholic beverage> later.
5) I'm on meds (this is normally a good one, although a particularly difficult host might then ask you what they are, etc.)

Obviously, preface all of these with a "no thank you", or equivalent, or a "sorry". You would like to take advantage of their hospitality, but you just can't.

There's no reason to be ashamed of whether or not you're drinking, and trying to weasel out of it more elaborately than you need to makes it look like you feel guilty. That said, please don't be one of those people who doesn't drink at a party and looks disapprovingly at everyone else for doing so. That person is never popular.

[noparlpf]

4) Sorry, but it interferes with my medicines.

Always works for me, although it's probably better if you're actually on meds.

Yeah, I quit the SSRI I was on last year because it was actually making things worse, either because the dose was low enough I was only getting side-effects or because something else. So that one's no good now.
I also don't have a car or a license just yet so driving isn't a believable excuse.

[pendell]

My personal favorite:

"No thanks, I do enough stupid things sober that I can't afford to drink."

It has the benefit of being absolutely true and also getting a laugh.

Overall observation: Humor is a lubricant to just about any social situation or interaction.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[noparlpf]

My personal favorite:

"No thanks, I do enough stupid things sober that I can't afford to drink."

It has the benefit of being absolutely true and also getting a laugh.

Overall observation: Humor is a lubricant to just about any social situation or interaction.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Hey, that's a good one for me.

[AtomicKitKat]

Just popping in here for my 2 cents worth(barely even post on this site these days). I used to be fairly teetotallish, still am most of the time. Once every couple months, I indulge in a single bottle of Bacardi Breezer(Peach, Orange, or Lemon Lime, and I don't care if folks think it's a "girly" drink. If I want to burn my superior taste buds with bitter, I have and will eat a raw bitter gourd, thank you very much), mixed with roughly equal amount of 7-Up or Mountain Dew. Just enough for me to feel "calm" while not actually getting me drunk(which usually follows with a near-comatose state which I dislike). Not having a driving license also means I won't get pegged as the designated driver, but might become the designated cab-direction-giver.

[thubby]

4) Sorry, but it interferes with my medicines.

Always works for me, although it's probably better if you're actually on meds.

as someone who actually has such medications, it is rather annoying.