Natural Weapon Fighter

[Snowbluff]

So I am making a natural weapon fighter... Something like TotemistX/Souleater1/otherstuff. Heavily Inspired by this list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127463).

I am planning on Binding the Chaos Roc's span (to shoulders, possibly thanks to Open Lesser Chakra), the Ancestral Vambraces (To hands, taken with Shape Soulmeld), Dragon Tail (Unbound), and Dragon Claws (Unbound) or Girallon Arms (Bound to Totem through Arms).

The idea is I make a lot of Natural Attacks, and stack debuffs with them. Having a large number of Natural Attacks, Necklace of Natural Attacks is impractical for gaining debuffs (The prices is multiplied for each weapon). So I am picking up Souleater for Energy Drain and maybe some Swordsage for Sneak Attack and Staggering Strike.

Do you have any other cheap ways to gain some debuffs?

[LTwerewolf]

Throw in some warshaper, because hey, infinite attacks.

[Snowbluff]

Throw in some warshaper, because hey, infinite attacks.

2 things!

I do not plan on using warshaper, or using it to increase weapon size, for various reasons. I should put that in the OP. The attacks from Totemist binds are better since they have other qualities (Chaos Roc's Span can daze, for example).

Warshaper does not grant infinite attacks. You can only have one of each weapon, so totemist can give me more attacks for less effort. Additionally, Changeling don't qualify for Souleater.

[Dusk Eclipse]

With so many natural attacks I think an amulet of Might fist might be cheaper than a NoNA. A level (or 3) of rogue opens up more SA dice and UMD.

For race it is hard to beat Daelkyr Halfblood (symbionta are incredibly useful, read really well the tentacle whip and Shadow Sibling) who are Aberrations and it gives access to both Soul Eater and Rapidstrike. Although Dragonwrought kobold is also pretty useful.

[LTwerewolf]

It doesn't specify a limit, therefore there isn't one.

If you're looking for more attacks, personman's list is about the best you're going to find, but if you want access to a lot of different ones, master of many forms can give you access to a lot, a lot of which have effects on theirs (fleshraker from a regular wildshape, etc)

[Sponson]

Warshaper does not grant infinite attacks. You can only have one of each weapon...

So how does a creature have two claws if they can only have one of each type?

[Snowbluff]

With so many natural attacks I think an amulet of Might fist might be cheaper than a NoNA. A level (or 3) of rogue opens up more SA dice and UMD.

For race it is hard to beat Daelkyr Halfblood (symbionta are incredibly useful, read really well the tentacle whip and Shadow Sibling) who are Aberrations and it gives access to both Soul Eater and Rapidstrike. Although Dragonwrought kobold is also pretty useful.

Yeah, the Amulet might have to go on my gear list.

The Halfblood looks pretty good. It would be pretty flavorful as well! Thanks!


So how does a creature have two claws if they can only have one of each type?

No, I am disagreeing with the ruling that allows infinite attacks. It relies on ambiguous wording and would never be allowed by any DM I know.

[BowStreetRunner]

It doesn't specify a limit, therefore there isn't one.

It says "As a move action, a warshaper can grow natural weapons such as claws or fangs, allowing a natural attack".

But you are free to read it as "As a move action, a warshaper can grow natural weapons such as claws or fangs, allowing infinite natural attacks" if you want.

I think it is entirely reasonable to assume that since they did not put in any emphasis on the word "a" and did not beat a dead horse by reiterating many times that this only gives one natural attack, then the reality must be that they fully intended it to be interpreted in a way that breaks the game. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise! :smallcool:

[LTwerewolf]

It says "As a move action, a warshaper can grow natural weapons such as claws or fangs, allowing a natural attack".

But you are free to read it as "As a move action, a warshaper can grow natural weapons such as claws or fangs, allowing infinite natural attacks" if you want.

Allows a natural attack for the limb you grew. It's pointing out that it's not just a cosmetic change, not that you only get one.

I can do the same thing.

"As a move action, a warshaper can grow natural weapons such as a claw or fangs...." continued on to "These morphic weapons need not be natural weapons that the creature already possesses."

[Snowbluff]

Allows a natural attack for the limb you grew. It's pointing out that it's not just a cosmetic change, not that you only get one.

I can do the same thing.

"As a move action, a warshaper can grow natural weapons such as a claw or fangs...." continued on to "These morphic weapons need not be natural weapons that the creature already possesses."


If the warshaper’s form already has a natural weapon of that type, the weapon deals damage as if it were one category larger.

It tells you what happens if you try and grow a weapon of a type you already have.

Also, adding weapons is a secondary feature of Morphic Weapon. Especially considering the typical definition of the word Grow (here being used to describe an increase in size).

Finally, please stop moving this off topic.

[Person_Man]

Staggering Strike and Chaos Roc's Span are great choices.

You'll probably want 10ish+ feet of natural reach, which isn't hard to get (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777). In general, you'll want to keep enemies at least 5 feet away from you, but still within your reach. That way they are locked down with as many status effects as possible, but can't counter attack. It's also a helpful way to trigger more attacks of opportunity.

Blind Fighting -> Mage Slayer -> Pierce Magical Concealment is very important at higher levels, to prevent casting and spell like abilities within your reach and to bypass magical Miss Chance.

Spell Storing enchanted weapons are cheap. Have an ally put a debuff into it (or do it yourself with a wand or whatnot), and use it the first round of combat.

You can get Quickdraw lite with various magic items (Eager weapon enhancement, Glove of the Master Strategist, Kimono of Storing). This is important, because if you kill all of the enemies in your reach (presumably using your natural attacks first), you want to be able to finish your Iterative attacks using thrown weapons, so that you never "waste" an opportunity to use an attack.

The net allows you to entangle an enemy and make it difficult for them to move away from you. Don't even bother with proficiency, as it's a touch attack.

If you pick up a Familiar or Animal Companion from any source, you can take the Share Soulmelds feat, and your Familiar gets all the benefits of your Soulmelds. (I suggest a Familiar or a Ranger Urban Companion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a), since it's BAB and hit points are based on yours). Works really well with Basalisk Mask (at will Flesh to Stone), Chaos Roc's Span (Daze), and/or Frost Helm (Stun). A familiar can also hold the charge of any spell. So before combat, you use a Wand or Staff or Rod to cast a touch attack spell, your Familiar holds the charge, and then on the first round of combat it releases it on your enemy, while you take some other action.

If you happen to have high Cha (I don't see why you would, but hey, who knows) the Combat Panache feat allows you to impose your Cha as a penalty to one enemy's AC. Sudden Stunning weapon enhancement also gives you a Stun attempt (the easiest way to Disarm an enemy, and hopefully prevent his actions for 1 or more rounds) Cha times per day, and is dirt cheap.

If you happen to have an ally that's a Bard, the Doomspeak Feat imposes a -10 penalty on everything for 1 round. (Requires a Bardic Music use and a Standard Action).

If you take any ranks of a Skill Monkey class for Sneak Attack, you should also invest in Sleight of Hand (which can be buffed with Theft Gloves soulmeld). You can pick pocket any unattended item from your enemy as a Free Action with a high enough check. This includes spell component pouches, quivers, potions, and sometimes holy symbols and other useful items. You can also plant Loadstones (Planar Handbook) on an enemy with Sleight of Hand, which weighs them down and encumbers them.

Ritiik is an exotic weapon from Frostburn. If you successfully hit an enemy, the enemy must make a Reflex Save. If it fails, you get a free Trip Attempt. Basically a weaker version of Knock-Down, but it only costs 1 Feat and not 3. It's particularly helpful for attacks of opportunity, or if you want to use it in conjunction with the Throw Anything feat.

Touch of Golden Ice Feat: Any Evil enemy hit by your unarmed strike or natural weapon must Save or take 1d6 Dex damage. Note that the Save DC is garbage, but if you have a ton of attacks, you're bound to get at least one successful use every round or two. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 47.

Mohrg’s Tongue undead graft: Gives you a secondary natural weapon touch attack that paralyzes enemies. 24,000 gp, Libris Mortis pg 80.

You can get free Bull Rush various ways - Knockback feat, Shield of the Severed Hand, Tome of Battle stuff, etc, and then improve it with Shock Trooper if you like. It's a helpful to prevent enemies from getting close to you, preventing them from making full attacks against you. And presumably you'll get pounce and/or free movement somehow, so you'll always make a full attack against them.

Contagious Paralysis feat: Anyone who touches someone that you paralyze with a extraordinary or supernatural ability (like that granted by Mohrg's Tongue) must Save or be paralyzed as well. Combine with a Bull Rush for a paralyzing bowling ball effect. Libris Mortis pg 25.

You also might want to consider one level of Beast Heart Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a&page=4), which gives you Monster Empathy (Wild Empathy for Magical Beasts regardless of Int score), which can be buffed by the Unicorn Horn soulmeld. So rather then fighting any animal or magical beasts, you make them Helpful to you.

[kardar233]

Consider Black Blood Cultist for being a ridiculously powerful grappler, if that's your thing.

Otherwise, I'd find a way to get Shifter to qualify for Soul Eater and go into Totem Rager, because Shifter Savagery is really just that good.

[Snowbluff]

Staggering Strike and Chaos Roc's Span are great choices.

Thanks you! :smallsmile:

I just wish there was a way to get Shoulder Chakra sooner...



You'll probably want 10ish+ feet of natural reach, which isn't hard to get (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777). In general, you'll want to keep enemies at least 5 feet away from you, but still within your reach. That way they are locked down with as many status effects as possible, but can't counter attack. It's also a helpful way to trigger more attacks of opportunity.


Blind Fighting -> Mage Slayer -> Pierce Magical Concealment is very important at higher levels, to prevent casting and spell like abilities within your reach and to bypass magical Miss Chance.

Yeah, good reach and concealment penetration sound good, but it might be a little feat intensive. I'll be looking into this, and I might do some Combat Reflex things as well.


If you pick up a Familiar or Animal Companion from any source, you can take the Share Soulmelds feat, and your Familiar gets all the benefits of your Soulmelds. (I suggest a Familiar or a Ranger Urban Companion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a), since it's BAB and hit points are based on yours). Works really well with Basalisk Mask (at will Flesh to Stone), Chaos Roc's Span (Daze), and/or Frost Helm (Stun). A familiar can also hold the charge of any spell. So before combat, you use a Wand or Staff or Rod to cast a touch attack spell, your Familiar holds the charge, and then on the first round of combat it releases it on your enemy, while you take some other action.

Oh that's awesome. Urban Companion seems like exactly why I want. I can take Improved Familiar if it works like a Familiar, right?


If you happen to have high Cha (I don't see why you would, but hey, who knows) the Combat Panache feat allows you to impose your Cha as a penalty to one enemy's AC. Sudden Stunning weapon enhancement also gives you a Stun attempt (the easiest way to Disarm an enemy, and hopefully prevent his actions for 1 or more rounds) Cha times per day, and is dirt cheap.



If you take any ranks of a Skill Monkey class for Sneak Attack, you should also invest in Sleight of Hand (which can be buffed with Theft Gloves soulmeld). You can pick pocket any unattended item from your enemy as a Free Action with a high enough check. This includes spell component pouches, quivers, potions, and sometimes holy symbols and other useful items. You can also plant Loadstones (Planar Handbook) on an enemy with Sleight of Hand, which weighs them down and encumbers them.

Tehe... hehehehe... BAWAHAHAHAHAH! :smallbiggrin:



Touch of Golden Ice Feat: Any Evil enemy hit by your unarmed strike or natural weapon must Save or take 1d6 Dex damage. Note that the Save DC is garbage, but if you have a ton of attacks, you're bound to get at least one successful use every round or two. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 47.

Can't. Evil for the Souleater dip.


Mohrg’s Tongue undead graft: Gives you a secondary natural weapon touch attack that paralyzes enemies. 24,000 gp, Libris Mortis pg 80.

You can get free Bull Rush various ways - Knockback feat, Shield of the Severed Hand, Tome of Battle stuff, etc, and then improve it with Shock Trooper if you like. It's a helpful to prevent enemies from getting close to you, preventing them from making full attacks against you. And presumably you'll get pounce and/or free movement somehow, so you'll always make a full attack against them.

Contagious Paralysis feat: Anyone who touches someone that you paralyze with a extraordinary or supernatural ability (like that granted by Mohrg's Tongue) must Save or be paralyzed as well. Combine with a Bull Rush for a paralyzing bowling ball effect. Libris Mortis pg 25.


Again, seems feat intensive. Still, this should prove to have some application as I level. I might find other ways to paralyze and move people as I figure all this out.

[Person_Man]

I just wish there was a way to get Shoulder Chakra sooner...

Quickest way there would be Totemist 9 or Incarnate 9. Either works perfectly well for a natural weapon build. (Although the Incarnate version is far more defensive).

Energy Drain from Soul Eater is nifty and all, but it's not so amazing that you should seriously delay your best chakra binds for it.



Oh that's awesome. Urban Companion seems like exactly why I want. I can take Improved Familiar if it works like a Familiar, right?

Yup.