Painfully new player needs help with character concept...

[Peacock King]

Okay...now see I've been dating this guy for about 2 months now (I'm gay BTW) and he loves D&D. I've been reading the books because I want to get into this so we have something we can do together and he's just decided he wants to run a game. I've got the basics down; I've always been good with math and numbers but the character concept I'm having trouble with.

Please keep in mind I'm VERY VERY NEW to all this so throwing big technical terms and abbreviations at me are going to fall on deaf ears...but here goes:

I'm going to try and pull of a semi-comic relief style character; a foppish, flamboyant gnome (VERY effeminate) who dresses in a very over the top, garish flare not unlike the character Kefka from Final Fantasy 3 except less clown like and more Victorian aesthetic. He'd most likely also be regularly mistaken for a woman as if that wasn't already apparent. He's a lapidary by trade, one who works with gem stones; cutting, shaping and setting them into fine jewelry. As such he also has a severe weakness for "sparkly things" and tends to be easily distracted as well as most things of incredible beauty like fine art, finely tailored silks.....cute guys...LOL.

He said we'll be starting at level 5. Now...I'm thinking of multiclassing (think I got that right) as a Bard/Sorcerer with a school specialty in maybe enchantment or illusion. Precious stones and metals would be his main focus so he'd probably need skills based on locating, identifying, appraising, etc. along with the necessary crafts (the feat "Craft Wondrous Item" looks like something he'd do). Prestige classes are a bit over my head but any suggestions would be welcomed; he has a huge collection of books and I may be able to find what you suggest and the other players are already talking about prestige options. The other players are being just as indecisive as myself right now so really any "position" in the team is still open.

I just want to show I was able to put this together on my own through research and help from the experts :smallredface:

[Squark]

I'd recommend against muticlassing two spell casting class together; For that matter, spellcasters probably shouldn't be doing much multiclassing period. You should probably go straight Bard or Sorceror. Couple of things;

Sorcerors don't actually specialize per se (That's a wizard class feature); You can, of course, pick mostly spells from a certain school.
Bards are primarily a support class, offering lots of buffing spells, or social spells. Good spells to choose include;
0th-Prestidgitation (Always, Always, Always take prestidgitation as one of your 0th level spells) and Detect Magic (Another basically mandatory choice)
1st-Charm Person, Silent Image, Sleep (although Sleep is starting to get less useful at this level), and Summon Monster 1
2nd-Rage, Blur, and Alter self are all excellent
Sublime Chord is a fantastic prestige class for boosting Bard spellcasting

[Peacock King]

I'd recommend against muticlassing two spell casting class together; For that matter, spellcasters probably shouldn't be doing much multiclassing period. You should probably go straight Bard or Sorceror. Couple of things;

Sorcerors don't actually specialize per se (That's a wizard class feature); You can, of course, pick mostly spells from a certain school.
Bards are primarily a support class, offering lots of buffing spells, or social spells. Good spells to choose include;
0th-Prestidgitation (Always, Always, Always take prestidgitation as one of your 0th level spells) and Detect Magic (Another basically mandatory choice)
1st-Charm Person, Silent Image, Sleep (although Sleep is starting to get less useful at this level), and Summon Monster 1
2nd-Rage, Blur, and Alter self are all excellent
Sublime Chord is a fantastic prestige class for boosting Bard spellcasting

So you think I should go straight bard then? Would that work well with his whole merchant/craftsman theme? Or would there be a better second class to mix in there like maybe Scout or Rogue?

[Diarmuid]

You've got a good start on a character concept, but what you've described mostly just sounds like a jeweler who would go about his business day to day buying/selling gems/jewelry.

Assuming this adventure is going to require some amount of adventuring it would be good to have some planning/understanding for why the character would go out and do such a thing. Certainly the promise of shiny new gems could be enough (a high Appraise score as well as Craft or Profession Jeweler could explain that mechanically), but perhaps there's more motivation. You'll certainly want high Bluff and Disguise skills if you plan on masquerading as a woman most of the time.

As a new player, I would have recommended strongly against anything caster, and I do think you could get away with your concept with a Rogue...but a gnomish sorceror with a slant on enchantment/illusion spells should be doable. Bards have a lot going on for a brand new player, and Sorcerors, while having spells, have a very limited spell selection so it's nowhere near as potentially overwhelming as a wizard, perse.

Multiclassing casters is oft-times considered a bad idea on these boards, but that's mainly due to the heavy optimization slant taken by many of the posters. In your situation, a Rogue/Sorceror with a few low level spells to help your Rogue-ing could work out, or a single classed version of either could fit your concept. All three have merits, but the Rogue will have the skill ranks available to pull off some of what you're trying to do, while the Sorceror gets very limited skills (but can overcome some of that with spells, Disguise Self instead of the Disguise skill for example).

While the magic item creation aspect may be appealing, again for your very first character I would probably caution against it.

Hope that helps, and welcome to the club.

[Malkav]

Gnome Artificer.
Artificer is from the Eberron Campaign Setting. Basic description can be found here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060328a)

[Morbis Meh]

You have a variety of options at your disposal, if you wish to specialize in enchantment/illusion may I suggest the Beguiler class (found in Player's Handbook II) It is a rather nifty class that specializes in enchantment and illusion, they are intelligence based with a good skill pool (I think the get 4+ Int per level) so they get a wide variety of options with skills. They have the ability to use light armor while casting, access to some martial weapons and THEY KNOW ALL OF THEIR SPELLS WHEN THEY GAIN ACCESS TO THE LEVEL. So in other words you are not limited to a small number of spells and you are also a spontaneous caster. You do get the ability to pick a few new spells down the road and get free silent and still spell metamagic capabilities. All in all it's a fun little class and the fluff part about being foppish can be done with items and feats. They get all the cha based skills as a bard does so feel free to pump charisma and look at the feats (sorry you will have to look on the internet, I recommend the d&d tools website they have descriptions and sources for almost every spell/feat) wanderer's diplomacyand master manipulator. If you want to have litterally a killer clown, I recommend taking a look at a gnome only Prestige Class Divine Prankster, it's on page 107 in Races of stone, it would require you to enter a divine casting class but that is up to you.

[Alabenson]

Gnome Artificer.
Artificer is from the Eberron Campaign Setting. Basic description can be found here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060328a)

I'd strongly advise against Artificer for your first character: while potentially very powerful, Artificer's are also extremely complicated and involve a tremendous amount of bookkeeping to play.

My advice, based on your concept, would be to play a Beguiler, a skillmonkey/caster hybrid class from Players Handbook 2. It's a decent class with a large number of skill points and a good spell list that isn't prone to becomeing useless because you made a poor decision during character creation.

[Morbis Meh]

Also are you stuck on the idea of a gnome? Have you ever considered a Changeling who can change into whatever sex/race of and physical description they want? I have always preferred Changelings for the foppish type XD They're found in Races of Ebberon if you are interested.

[Peacock King]

You've got a good start on a character concept, but what you've described mostly just sounds like a jeweler who would go about his business day to day buying/selling gems/jewelry.

Assuming this adventure is going to require some amount of adventuring it would be good to have some planning/understanding for why the character would go out and do such a thing. Certainly the promise of shiny new gems could be enough (a high Appraise score as well as Craft or Profession Jeweler could explain that mechanically), but perhaps there's more motivation. You'll certainly want high Bluff and Disguise skills if you plan on masquerading as a woman most of the time.

As a new player, I would have recommended strongly against anything caster, and I do think you could get away with your concept with a Rogue...but a gnomish sorceror with a slant on enchantment/illusion spells should be doable. Bards have a lot going on for a brand new player, and Sorcerors, while having spells, have a very limited spell selection so it's nowhere near as potentially overwhelming as a wizard, perse.

Multiclassing casters is oft-times considered a bad idea on these boards, but that's mainly due to the heavy optimization slant taken by many of the posters. In your situation, a Rogue/Sorceror with a few low level spells to help your Rogue-ing could work out, or a single classed version of either could fit your concept. All three have merits, but the Rogue will have the skill ranks available to pull off some of what you're trying to do, while the Sorceror gets very limited skills (but can overcome some of that with spells, Disguise Self instead of the Disguise skill for example).

While the magic item creation aspect may be appealing, again for your very first character I would probably caution against it.

Hope that helps, and welcome to the club.

Maybe he specializes in tracking down magical artifacts like a treasure hunter?

And the thing is I totally understand the mechanics of how spellcasting works, range and duration and material components and all that along with the idea of crafting magical items. Part of the reason why this concept grew on me is because that idea alone appealed to me A LOT.

One of the other players told me about a feat called "Eschew Materials" that lets a Wizard cast without material components. There was also another one that let you imbue inanimate objects with spell like abilities as well but I forgot what it was called.

But yeah maybe I am getting in over my head here...I just really wanted to impress with my first character LOL

[Morbis Meh]

Maybe he specializes in tracking down magical artifacts like a treasure hunter?

And the thing is I totally understand the mechanics of how spellcasting works, range and duration and material components and all that along with the idea of crafting magical items. Part of the reason why this concept grew on me is because that idea alone appealed to me A LOT.

One of the other players told me about a feat called "Eschew Materials" that lets a Wizard cast without material components. There was also another one that let you imbue inanimate objects with spell like abilities as well but I forgot what it was called.

But yeah maybe I am getting in over my head here...I just really wanted to impress with my first character LOL

Yeah it does work like that with spells whose material component are less than 1 gp but for everything else you will need the component. The other feat.... are you talking about crafting, eg craft wondrous object/craft magic arms? A rogue/wizard multiclass is fine especially if you are planning on going into Uncanny trickster.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'm going to 3rd Beguiler form Players Handbook 2. Its a 'simple' build because straight Beguiler 20 (that is, taking 20 levels of Beguiler and nothing else) works just fine and you can't make bad build choices (your feats may be bad, but your class abilities remain in tact). I'd pick up Spell Focus (Illusion) or (Enchantment) from the Player's Handbook. Makes Beguiler's common tricks harder to resist.

[Malkav]

I'd strongly advise against Artificer for your first character: while potentially very powerful, Artificer's are also extremely complicated and involve a tremendous amount of bookkeeping to play.


He said he was good at math. :smalltongue:

[Peacock King]

I'm going to 3rd Beguiler form Players Handbook 2. Its a 'simple' build because straight Beguiler 20 (that is, taking 20 levels of Beguiler and nothing else) works just fine and you can't make bad build choices (your feats may be bad, but your class abilities remain in tact). I'd pick up Spell Focus (Illusion) or (Enchantment) from the Player's Handbook. Makes Beguiler's common tricks harder to resist.

*runs to grab PHII and reads*

Huh...it does seem up my alley...especially the "manipulating via illusion or enchantment" which is pretty much what I was thinking. Although I feel as though its lacking something...not enough "flare" I guess is what I mean. Anything I could take to improve on his fighting ability? I kinda pictured him as this very quick footed fencer brandishing a rapier. The dramatic aesthetic appeals to him. What about a few levels in Swashbuckler?

[Kaustic]

I will also give props to Beguiler, it's a great quick put together Rogue/Sorcerer class. Focusing on Illusion and Enchantment spells, and the ability to disable magical traps like a Rogue. You can also have a bit of fun with Skill Tricks from the Complete Scoundrel.

[MesiDoomstalker]

*runs to grab PHII and reads*

Huh...it does seem up my alley...especially the "manipulating via illusion or enchantment" which is pretty much what I was thinking. Although I feel as though its lacking something...not enough "flare" I guess is what I mean. Anything I could take to improve on his fighting ability? I kinda pictured him as this very quick footed fencer brandishing a rapier. The dramatic aesthetic appeals to him. What about a few levels in Swashbuckler?

Heres the sticky wicket. Casters don't do melee. Not without some very funny tricks that are frankly beyond a new player. The key to be a new player is to not try and do too much. I know it sucks, but most systems don't let you 'do everything.'

However, Beguilers come pre packaged with Rapier proficiency, so thats a perfectly viable option to do more direct offense in combat. Just don't expect to be any good at it.

Whatever you do, stop trying to multiclass. Believe it or not, multiclassing is a delicate art that takes some practice to master. Not to mention, multiclassing is for non-casters. Casters take prestige classes primarily (which isn't neccessary or advisable for a Beguiler or a new player respectivly).

[Diarmuid]

A level of Fighter would get you BAB, HP, and a Feat to put towards fighting capability.

A level of Rogue would get you sneak attack (a fighter variant could do the same but lose the feat).

Taking Weapon Finesse as a feat would play up on the nimbleness in combat, using your Dexterity towards your attacks as opposed to your Strength. The Dex would also improve your Intiative, Armor Class, and Reflex save...all things that would lend towards "quick footed".

You're not going to be really all that good at "fighting" without putting some resources (class levels, feats, etc) towards it, and the more resources that swing that way, are less that are spent on your other concept points. So while you have this idea of a guy who can do almost anything in your head, unless you want to play a Factotum (Cityscape I think), you'll have to find a compromise somewhere in the middle.

[Urpriest]

In addition to the spells suggested earlier, Color Spray and Glitterdust are both rather powerful for their level and very, very flamboyant.

[MesiDoomstalker]

A level of Fighter would get you BAB, HP, and a Feat to put towards fighting capability.

A level of Rogue would get you sneak attack (a fighter variant could do the same but lose the feat).

Taking Weapon Finesse as a feat would play up on the nimbleness in combat, using your Dexterity towards your attacks as opposed to your Strength. The Dex would also improve your Intiative, Armor Class, and Reflex save...all things that would lend towards "quick footed".

You're not going to be really all that good at "fighting" without putting some resources (class levels, feats, etc) towards it, and the more resources that swing that way, are less that are spent on your other concept points. So while you have this idea of a guy who can do almost anything in your head, unless you want to play a Factotum (Cityscape I think), you'll have to find a compromise somewhere in the middle.

Factotum is in Dungeonscape actually, and is nearly as bad as Sorcerers as far as options go. They have a lot and fall prey to "I can do everything! Just not very well" very easily without proper treatment.

But as he said here, you need to compromise somewhere, and the system eres to leaning heavily towards one aspect. Trying to include to many quickly spreads your self too thin.

[BowStreetRunner]

I would strongly recommend that for your first character you choose a single class and do not multi-class at all. The straight classes are all very strong on their own, and mutli-classing adds a level of complexity that can undermine your overall goals if you are not careful.

Either Bard or Beguiler would be excellent choices for the character you describe. You can accomplish your 'background' by investing a few ranks in skills like Appraise, Craft (lapidary) [or Craft (jeweler) - it really doesn't matter], while focusing the rest of your resources on your 'adventurer' role.

[Kaustic]

A bit more on the aggressive side, but in the Players Handbook II there is also the Duskblade. Similar to the Beguiler, only more combat focused and it does lean away from Illusions and Enchantment spells to favor more combat oriented spells. You may also not like the classes selection of Skills to help with your characters concept.

[Peacock King]

Thanks for the help everyone I really appreciate it! But yeah I think a straight Beguiler would work out just fine for what I'm looking at. Are there any good suggestions for useful feats or a possible prestige class for later that might be suitable?

[hotjer]

I tried to google beguilder handbook - if you search on #class# handbook you can find lot of useful guides on the net.


http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872218/-_The_New_Beguiler_Handbook_-_2008

[MesiDoomstalker]

Thanks for the help everyone I really appreciate it! But yeah I think a straight Beguiler would work out just fine for what I'm looking at. Are there any good suggestions for useful feats or a possible prestige class for later that might be suitable?

There is one class, Shadowcraft Mage (Races of Stone) that fits wonders, considering your already going Gnome. Fair warning though, if your playing with exprienced players they may call foul. The class, with the right build (not yours mind you) can become crazy silly broken. For a sane person, it gives you offensive options, by casting Illusion spells as if they were Evocation spells (the blasty, fireball type spells), as well as more secretive options (constant hiding ability, free Silent Spell on all Illusion spells to name a few).

HOwever, I stand by my earlier statment. Multiclassing and Prestige Classing is a bit complicated, and I'd ask your boyfriend for suggestions. Ones he has played or seen played so he can help you utilize its abilities better, whilst in play, something us forumites can't obviously do.

[HunterColt22]

*runs to grab PHII and reads*

Huh...it does seem up my alley...especially the "manipulating via illusion or enchantment" which is pretty much what I was thinking. Although I feel as though its lacking something...not enough "flare" I guess is what I mean. Anything I could take to improve on his fighting ability? I kinda pictured him as this very quick footed fencer brandishing a rapier. The dramatic aesthetic appeals to him. What about a few levels in Swashbuckler?

Hmm...


Well after seeing what you wrote there, why not read over the SpellThief class in the Complete Adventurer. You get access to some magic that greatly helps a skill monkey/illusionist out, much like a beguiler, it goes off of cha, again something you seem to want in your character. you can also steal magic from enemy wizards or barrow some from another party member should the need arise. You also dont have access to a huge list, thus alleviating the general consensus many on the board are making that going into sorcerer may be a bit of a big task, especially when multiclassing. Yet it also gives you the combat you want to use, as described on your want to be something like a swashbuckler. It also gives your a rogues base attack bonus, higher than a beguiler, but a little bit worse than a swashbuckler. Also look into skill tricks in the complete scoundrel, think of them as mini feats, but will give you that flair in combat that you are looking for.

[Morbis Meh]

Thanks for the help everyone I really appreciate it! But yeah I think a straight Beguiler would work out just fine for what I'm looking at. Are there any good suggestions for useful feats or a possible prestige class for later that might be suitable?

There are plenty of feats, Shadow Weave Magic from Player's guide to Faerun grants a +1 bonus to DC's of both illusion and enchantment as well as +1 to overcome spell resistance. Spell focus: Illusion/Enchantment are good, if you take spell focus: Enchantment, then take unsettling enchantment from complete mage. If you want more spells then take Arcane disciple which allows you to select one cleric domain and adds the spells to your spell list; however, you need the proper wisdom score to cast said spells. If you want to be sneaky then I recommend the darkstalker feat from Lords of Madness which forces enemies with blindsight, scent and tremorsense to roll a spot/listen check. You honestly don't need a prestige class for a beguiler but if you want then i suggest shadow craft mage (races of stone) or shadow adept (player guide to faerun)

[Lord Il Palazzo]

My current game includes a first-time player who's having a blast with a beguiler. It's a great caster class for new players or players who just want something straightforward as you don't have to worry about picking which spells you want to learn the way a wizard or sorceror does; whenever you gain access to a new level of spells, you automatically know all of your spells of that level and can start playing around with them to find the ones you want to use. My friend recently discovered Glibness which gives a massive bonus on bluff checks and is having a lot of fun wrecking the DM's expectations and plans with it. (I'm the DM so I don't really mind; it just forces me to plan better for non-combat encounters.)

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you want to splash in some actuall combat ability, you could take a level in fighter and then enter the Eldritch Knight prestige class, in the dungeon master's guide. You'd be giving up some beguiler class features, but you'd be getting good base attack bonus and a bigger hit die.

This suggestion may get denounced by other playgrounders but it's a simple and effective way to improve a caster's combat ability without having to figure out a complicated schedule of feats and class feature interactions.

Abjurant Champion, in Complete Mage, would be a great boon if it's available. It has very similar requirements to eldritch knight and can be entered on your 9th character level if you take 6 levels of beguiler 1 level of fighter and 1 level of eldritch knight.

Though there's really nothing at all wrong with taking straight beguiler for 20 levels. In that case you could improve your combat ability by purchasing a skillful rapier, this being a magical rapier with the skillful enhancment found in Complete Arcane.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby.

[Squark]

Hmm...


Well after seeing what you wrote there, why not read over the SpellThief class in the Complete Adventurer. You get access to some magic that greatly helps a skill monkey/illusionist out, much like a beguiler, it goes off of cha, again something you seem to want in your character. you can also steal magic from enemy wizards or barrow some from another party member should the need arise. You also dont have access to a huge list, thus alleviating the general consensus many on the board are making that going into sorcerer may be a bit of a big task, especially when multiclassing. Yet it also gives you the combat you want to use, as described on your want to be something like a swashbuckler. It also gives your a rogues base attack bonus, higher than a beguiler, but a little bit worse than a swashbuckler. Also look into skill tricks in the complete scoundrel, think of them as mini feats, but will give you that flair in combat that you are looking for.

Ungh. Spellthief is hard enough for veteran players to use effectively, much less a newbie. I'd also reccomend against Artificer; It's not just the bookkeeping, it's also the system mastery involved in knowing what to craft, and how to diversify your options.

[BowStreetRunner]

I tried to google beguilder handbook - if you search on #class# handbook you can find lot of useful guides on the net.


http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872218/-_The_New_Beguiler_Handbook_-_2008

The most up-to-date Beguiler's handbook I know if is THIS ONE (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=skifnivd54dv5g3ll4j1n3rqb4&topic=363).

It is a bit newer than the one posted above and used the old one as a starting point.

[Alabenson]

He said he was good at math. :smalltongue:

It's not just the bookkeeping; Artificer requires a huge amount of system mastery to know what you can do effectively and how to accomplish it without rendering yourself useless in the process.
Granted, done correctly it's the most powerful class in the game, but it's complicated enough that even veteran players can have issues with it.


Thanks for the help everyone I really appreciate it! But yeah I think a straight Beguiler would work out just fine for what I'm looking at. Are there any good suggestions for useful feats or a possible prestige class for later that might be suitable?

One popular trick, which would be dependant on the optimization level of your group, is to take a single level of Mindbender (from Complete Arcane) to gain telepathy and thus qualify for the Mindsight feat (from Lords of Madness). Mindsight essentially gives you blindsight on steriods, and the combination can be seen as cheesy by some, but if it's allowed it's a very powerful ability.

[KnightOfV]

For a first time character? I recommend going Bard all the way. Bard has a nice mix of Attack bonus, spells, and class abilities giving you lots of different things to try in one character. Plus, you only need the basic Player's Handbook, and you don't have to flip around too much, just the Bard page and the Spell List page.

Trust me, your spells will actually be better if you stay Bard than if you multiclass. It sounds like you want to focus on magic, so Feats like 'Spell Focus:Enchantment' work great with Bard spells like Sleep, Charm Person, and (this one sounds like a MUST for your character) Tasha's Hideous laughter. Great CHA and the feat bonus means that you will be able to end a lot of fights with one spell.

If you want to be half decent in combat, get a lot of DEX and grab the 'Weapon Finesse' feat and use a rapier for stabbing, or a whip for tripping people!

Bard can do lots of fun, slightly silly stuff and while they are not the most powerful class in the game, they have a lot of things they can do. Sounds perfect for your concept.