healer in our group sucks, guess I'll take leadership...

[morkendi]

Don't know why, but he multi-classed to much. Now he can't keep up with heals. Guess I am going to take leadership. I am 11th lvl shadowcraft mage who is NE. Dm says I have ti make my cohort. Has to be dwarf or gnome. I want something that fits well in anti-hero concept. All wotc books. Channel energy is in as a feat. It lets you use turn as a aoe heal centered on you. Need selective channeling as well so it only hits party members. I get a feat at 12, so just trying to be ready. My charisma is 16 for leadership.

[Libertad]

Here you go:

A Player's Guide to 3.5 Healing, or why you don't need a Cleric to Heal. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710.0)

Or are you asking for optimization advice for your cohort instead?

BTW, what sourcebooks does your DM allow access to players?

[morkendi]

Looking to optimized a cohort.

[Eldariel]

More information. PF or 3.5, what sources are available, what's the rest of the party like, and is there any reason the Healer can't retrain into something competent so that he won't feel overshadowed? What's he actually doing?

Also, any reason you want actual heals? Generally healing in combat is fairly inefficient and the need for it tends to be a side-effect of the party taking more damage than they should be. Generally, preventing damage through disabling opponents is more efficient than in-combat healing.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Can we get more information on what happened with the healer? IME as long as y'all are killing/disabling foes reasonably well a couple of wands of lesser vigor should be healing enough, and I would worry about stepping on toes/upstaging your buddy with the cohort. Leadership *is* the most powerful feat in the game.

[morkendi]

It is 3.5 all wotc. He went druid, shaman, and cleric along with rogue at 1st as he is a whisper gnome. We can retrain feats, not lvls. I don't know what he is doing. Most fights I can control, but if the bosses and such resist, I can't do it fast enough. Pally drops, rogue runs, war drops or runs, I solo to get to fallen characters. I am 7 diviner/ 4th shadowcraft mage.

[Spuddles]

In combat heals CAN be pretty useful, especially in the combats where they come up. If the cleric has used up his spells that disable or remove foes and primary DPS is about to drop, it may be better for the cleric to turn one of his utility spells into a spontaneous cure. It isn't until the mid levels where a cleric's full attacks will rival a dedicated melee specialist unless he is abusing the hell out of persistent spell. So in many cases where the party is close to a wipe, the cleric can do more good turning a useless dismissal into cure critical and giving the good guys one more turn of actions.

[morkendi]

I have played a cleric before, went radiant servant and had no problem . I am going to take leadership, and want the character to fit with my wizard well. I don't know any NE or such that fit the anti hero point of view that my wizard has been played like. Just looking for ideas.

[Eldariel]

It is 3.5 all wotc. He went druid, shaman, and cleric along with rogue at 1st as he is a whisper gnome. We can retrain feats, not lvls. I don't know what he is doing. Most fights I can control, but if the bosses and such resist, I can't do it fast enough. Pally drops, rogue runs, war drops or runs, I solo to get to fallen characters. I am 7 diviner/ 4th shadowcraft mage.

What he's done wrong is multiclass. You can't multiclass as a spellcaster; shoots yourself in the leg. Your spells won't keep advancing without levels in the caster class or PRC that advances casting.

What's your Wisdom? 'cause you could just Arcane Disciple for the Heal-spell if you need in-combat healing if you have 16+.


But if you need a Healbot McHealson, you prolly want to go DMM: Persist Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) (pick up "Persistent Spell", "Divine Metamagic" and as many "Extra Turnings" as you can; make it a Human of course for extras; domains "Planning" and "Undeath" can help here). Cloistered Cleric so he can contribute in skills if absolutely necessary but mostly to drill in the point that he isn't a warrior, but a healer.

Use Divine Metamagic mitigation (7 Turn Undead uses to persist a spell) to persist Vigorous Circle on the party for Fast Healing 3 for everybody. Persist some other party buffs too (Righteous Wrath of the Faithful and Recitation for example; these are all in Spell Compendium) and then cast others (e.g. Heroes' Feast & individual Greater Magic Weapons and Magic Vestments on everybody's armor and weapons, Magic Circle Against Evil and maybe "Greater Resistance" from Spell Compendium if you have the slots). This way he does nothing himself, acting as a strict force multiplier making everybody else better at what they do and staying alive (significantly, massive bonuses to peoples' saving throws and some bonuses to attacks and AC alongside the Fast Healing).

Have him pick Healing-domain and Spontaneous Domain Casting variant from Player's Handbook II; this way he'll learn to spontaneously convert to spells from Healing-domain instead of just Cures which importantly gives him access to spontaneous "Heal" next level, which is actually worth casting. He could be a True Neutral Cleric of Pelor (compatible with both, your and Pelor's alignment) or a Cleric of Ideal where you'll somehow make sense that Evil Cleric is a healer. Maybe he doesn't pass moral judgment on anybody and heals his comrades no matter what their cause is. Maybe he just believes your cause is greater good. Or maybe he's a mercenary or maybe he's a cleric of Pelor, the Burning Hate (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor_the_Burning_Hate) believing in Pelor's masquerade.

There's even a feat "Heretic of the Faith" [Power of Faerun] that allows you to receive spells from your deity even though you have differing alignment; maybe he's a "heretic" of Pelor who believes in the dark Pelor who blesses the dark ones in an effort to convert humanity. Maybe something more grandeur than that; if you make him a Cleric of Pelor you could even have him take adapted Radiant Servant of Pelor (adapted to his alignment) which is an absolutely amazing prestige class for a healer.


Either way, the trick here is to ensure that he only heals the party and makes the party stronger and doesn't really do anything himself. Persisting a bunch of buffs on the party and then spending his remaining actions casting appropriate Cures seems like a fairly good way of going on about this. Maybe Imbued Healing [Complete Champion] for some extra carrier effects on the heals too.

[Malkav]

We can retrain feats, not lvls.

Can't you use the level drain trick thingy that someone will likely have a link to?

[morkendi]

When lvl drained, you regain a lvl. Not learn a new one. I really don't care. My character doesn't take much damage and has the ability to get away if i have to. Just watching my friend get mad cause someone else gimped his character for some reason. So we got the exalted pally that thinks the rogue and I are evil, and therefore thinks he shouldn't associate with us. A good fighter with standstill feat that keeps stuff of me while use my save or suck spells. And a gimp healer that cant heal higher than cur moderate wounds. The pally charges everything, and refuses to retreat. I even had to shadow well him to get out before he died. Role playing the party strife is kind of fun though.

[Sajiri]

Maybe he doesnt want to be heals. Did he actually say he wanted to to being with? Or did he get placed into it by everyone else. If he didnt want to, then saying he gimped his healer isnt really fair. If he DID want to be the healer, I'm more worried that as said earlier you'll be stepping on toes.

Couldn't your group maybe work something out with the DM to recreate/create him a new build and give him some advice on how to do it better?

Also that pally doesnt sound like he's helping either

[dascarletm]

Healing is for suckers. I suggest you just be GOD (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God) and remove the need for Healers at all.:smallcool:

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Healing is for suckers. I suggest you just be GOD (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God) and remove the need for Healers at all.:smallcool:Seems like that's what he's doing, but one player can only do so much.

I'll second B_F's suggestion. If you're willing to have a cohort who can cast good spells (entirely doable with neutral cleric), you also get Blessing of the Righteous as a partybuff. That might be even more hilarious for the Paladin, since now the evil dude has some holy guy casting super holy spells following the evil mage around. Depending on your DM's interpretation of Soul of Light (Dragon Magic), persisting Vigorous Circle could net the group Fast Healing 15, which should cover healing duties pretty well.

[morkendi]

He wanted it. We started at 3rd. He went rouge1/ cleric 1/ shaman 1. We were all saying what? But it's his character. Ok at low levels when I greased, color sprayed, slept everything. Now he is rouge 1/ cleric 3/ shaman 3/ druid 3? Have no idea what he is doing. I went by the Batman wizard guide almost strait. I think this lead to a false sense of security. Now encounters are getting harder, and he is falling behind.

At low level, we came across a deck of cards. I drew 2. First was supposed to be bad, multiply your age by 1d4. This put me as old which raised my mental stats. At 11 lvl, i am looking at 24 int now. Most things didn't resist my spells. Next card 1 wish. I wished for x2 spells. I get double spells before adding my bonus spells from int. I am able to do a lot, but i need time.

[Gavinfoxx]

Get the character killed. Shouldn't be too hard. Just don't use optimal tactics in locking down everything, and make sure he ends up exposed somehow... that is a really, really, really bad build. And then, the next character that joins, only let him join if, in character, he can cast spells of 'the fourth circle of magic'. After all, you must be ye tall to get on this ride...

[Kelb_Panthera]

That wish is absurd.

On topic: if all you really need is a healer, you're already covered. Conjure one. Planar binding to get something with cleric casting will save you a feat. You're a shadowcraft mage for batman's sake. You can produce illusory potions of cure critical wounds that are better than the real thing if you want.

On target for topic: Most any divine caster will do. They all get cure X and most of 'em get restoration. An air shugenja could probably prove quite complimentary to your own brand of casting. You really don't need to optimize him no matter what you go with though. An expert with maxed ranks in UMD and a staff loaded down with healing magic could do the job. Actually, that's not a bad idea, a UMD rogue. A rogue would compliment your villainous hero quite nicely I think.

[Libertad]

Also, for healing:

I'd recommend a Wand of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor (Spell Compendium). In fact, Lesser Vigor's the most efficient out-of-combat means of healing (and healing in combat's a sub-optimal choice in 3.5).

I'd second the UMD Rogue. A Bard can be neat, too. They got cure wounds on their list of spells, so they don't need UMD for Cure Light Wands.

[Gnaeus]

Cohort = Dread necromancer. Retrain to tomb tainted soul.

[silverwolfer]

what a bunch of complicated cheezy suggestions, so Anti Hero + healing...

Shadowbane stalker or inquisitor

Batman with a heal

Rogue+cleric into those two prestige classses

[Archmage1]

Well, I would second the UMD+Wands option, but if you are constantly needing massive healing, it will get pricy.

You could also get a belt of healing, and use it as a continual source of healing, but less per day

You could also allow the paladin to get killed, reducing the healing requirements

You could also get the multiclasser killed, and get him to roll up a more effective character.

I would say this: If your fights are routinely resulting in the pally dropping, and everyone else running away, you probably need to have a chat with your dm. in combat healing, as has been repeated a lot, is not a good action to be performing. Preventing the need for healing is your goal.