What class levels should i give my Gods?

[metabolicjosh]

So i always give my gods commoner level because i can't decide what to pick.
any ideas?

[Kelb_Panthera]

So i always give my gods commoner level because i can't decide what to pick.
any ideas?

Stop statting your gods because it's going to get them killed?

Seriously though, 20 levels of cleric at the very least. Virtually all the printed gods have at least that. 20 outsider HD usually come before that too, though not always.

[BowStreetRunner]

Give each of them a full 10 levels of the Ur-Priest prestige class.

[skycycle blues]

It depends specifically on what type of God.

I haven't needed to build any gods for any campaigns that I've run yet, but in principle, I would build them as epic level Gestalt characters, designed to have the strongest abilities relevant to their godly features. And because they should be very strong, they'd always include access to 9th level spells.

But it's important to know what power level you want them to have. If you want the gods to be realistically killable by anything except crazy opimized builds, you have to build for that. If you want them to be near untouchable, then they should probably have upwards of 50 class levels including high level Cleric/Wizard/Druid/Sorcerer casting.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Exactly what KP said - stop statting out your gods.

If you must, you could stat out their Avatars - beings invested with a portion of said deity's divine spark.

I treat the 'gods' presented in the various statbooks as the Avatars; they all have 20 Outsider HD, as well as 10-30 class levels.

[metabolicjosh]

I like to limit my gods to a more.....

Gods among men style. Powerful for specific reasons, but not all powerful.
I do like the idea of cleric levels, maybe a domain at will?

To address the no stating maybe I should just give them class feature i think fit them.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I like to limit my gods to a more.....

Gods among men style. Powerful for specific reasons, but not all powerful.
I do like the idea of cleric levels, maybe a domain at will?

To address the no stating maybe I should just give them class feature i think fit them.

Gods are pretty limited by the official stats. Check out the srd's divinity section for the complete rules on stating a god. They're no push-overs but they're not omnipotent or omnicient by any means. Most of 'em can't even fortell the future any better than a cleric or wizard could, much less claim genuine omnicience.

[jaybird]

I like to limit my gods to a more.....

Gods among men style. Powerful for specific reasons, but not all powerful.
I do like the idea of cleric levels, maybe a domain at will?

To address the no stating maybe I should just give them class feature i think fit them.

So your gods are more like Exalted?

Sounds interesting. I agree that they should certainly all be epic gestalt, with 20 levels in Cleric. Something like a god of War could be a Warblade or Crusader on the other side, a god of Knowledge/Magic could be Factotum or Wizard, god of Nature would be a Druid, etc etc. The Cleric 20 side IMO is necessary simply to represent their divine power (not to be confused with Divine Power, though they certainly could have that too...)

[rockdeworld]

I like the idea of throwing out the Divine rulebook altogether and saying all gods are 21st level spellcasters who have abused Tippy's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4199363&postcount=8) Origin of the Species spell.

Then just imagine them being as crazy prepared/powerful/psychotic as you like :smallsmile:

[Kelb_Panthera]

So your gods are more like Exalted?

Sounds interesting. I agree that they should certainly all be epic gestalt, with 20 levels in Cleric. Something like a god of War could be a Warblade or Crusader on the other side, a god of Knowledge/Magic could be Factotum or Wizard, god of Nature would be a Druid, etc etc. The Cleric 20 side IMO is necessary simply to represent their divine power (not to be confused with Divine Power, though they certainly could have that too...)

I don't really see a need for gestalt here. To keep up with the official stats you're talking about 30-40 class levels anyway. A war god that's got 20 cleric levels and 20 warblade levels on top of his outsider HD is nastier than a god with 20 levels of warblade//cleric.

You're already way into epic anyway, no sense in adding in a variant rule for no reason. Though I prefer that all characters be created under the same rules, so I may be biased here.

[Fable Wright]

Give each of them a full 10 levels of the Ur-Priest prestige class.
...I am speechless, and will steal this idea for later campaigns. This is brilliant. :smallbiggrin:

(Just saying... Ur-Priest Gods probably don't steal power from themselves. They take it from the Dead Gods. If I make a game anytime soon, it will be based on this idea...)

[killianh]

To quote the deities and demigods book: "most D&D deities are 20 Hd outsiders with 30-50 character levels" Deities also get four domains, in which they get all of the spells in those domains as at will spell like abilities. Usually two of those domains match the alignment of the deity in question since most aren't neutral on either axis. Not an mandatory point, but most gods lack PrCs. In addition they gain an amount of divine abilities based on their divine rank. The bit every one is saying about having cleric levels isn't a big thing for most gods. Kord for example is a straight 20 barb/20 fighter with 20 outsider HD.

I would have no problem helping building a god for you if you can share with us what the god is suppose to be a god of, and how powerful said deity is suppose to be. Feel free to PM me what you're looking for and I'll send you something when I'm done.

Another quick bit of advice I'll give you is don't stat out overdeities (the god(s) above the other gods) since the overdeity is the DM in most cases :smallcool:

[Ravens_cry]

Depends on the setting.
Unless your gods are super involved in mortal life, like coming down to meet and greet at every temple that gets built and on feast days at important ones, why even give them levels.?
Heck, why even give them statistics?
To paraphrase Arnold, If it has stats, the players can kill it.
Unless you want your players to go on deicide, I personally would keep them stat-less.

[NichG]

I'll go against the grain here a bit. Stat them out like you would unique monsters, sort of like the Elder Evils are written.

That is to say, don't bother trying to construct a set of abilities using PC classes and the like. That's a lot of work for really not very much benefit. Instead ballpark where you want their numbers to be (i.e. pick how powerful you want your gods to be) and then add flavorful abilities that are specifically related to their divinity. The mechanics from Deities and Demigods are all over the place anyhow, its not like you improve the game by restricting yourself to them (one god gets to kill all mortals within 10 miles without a save, whereas another god gets to use a slightly souped up Dimension Door).

God of War: He can simultaneously fight anyone who challenges him (allowing him to fight an army as if he were individually dueling each person in the army). Mechanics: When facing multiple opponents, his attacks hit all opponents who enter initiative against him, and his hitpoints are multiplied by the number of opponents he is facing. Outside of a fight, he can instantly analyze a tactical situation and can accurately predict the victor (anything from chess to wars); this ability is foiled by divine intervention, including his own. He can be wherever there is war, but in a land that has known no violence of any kind for a year he becomes fully mortal (pretty much would have to be a desolated field or isolated monastery or something).

God of Magic: This is painfully broad. 'He makes up spells as he goes' might be reasonable, but thats not really an answer. Maybe he can take command of any magical effects around him, and also can create fields that automatically apply various metamagics to any spells cast within.

God of Sport: He is automatically at least slightly better than the best athlete in the world at a given sport (treat as that person's net skill modifier plus 10). This can include attack rolls so long as the attacks being made follow the rules or at least the theme of a sport. Aside from that, take epic uses of skills to ridiculous extremes: he does not fly - he jumps. He does not teleport - he runs around the world in an instant. He can evaluate a person's abilities at a glance (can know their levels, feats, etc).

God of Death: He knows the moment of every mortal's demise, and may change it by manipulating their hourglass/thread of fate/whatever, which is in his realm. Away from these objects, he can summon the soul of any dead being and re-embody them as they were in life, but serving him with perfect loyalty. Healing does not work around him, and all nonlethal damage is automatically converted to lethal.

Save the 'Maze' 'Avalanche of Blades' 'Righteous Might + Full Attack' etc types of things for mortals. You don't need a character to be a deity to make those things interesting after all so you've got plenty of opportunity to use them for non-deities, and they can distract from the 'point' of the deity. They also tend to add to the tactical complexity of running the deity, which can actually make them less effective or impressive than if you just have a handful of powers that work together in ways you planned for when you wrote them.

[Malroth]

I believe he wanted to stat his gods BECAUSE he wanted there to be credible mortal threats to a dieties power. If thats the case the rule "if it has stats you can kill it" actually works to his campaign's benefit.

[danzibr]

I agree with rockdeworld. The current gods are just strong mortals (who probably don't age and stuff) who pass themselves off as gods.

[Darius Kane]

The current gods are just strong mortals (who probably don't age and stuff)
That's exactly what a God is in D&D.

[danzibr]

That's exactly what a God is in D&D.
Some people take the view that a god shouldn't be statted because then he/she can be killed.

Besides, not all D&D gods (and the like) have stats.

[Darius Kane]

Some people take the view that a god shouldn't be statted because then he/she can be killed.
They're just strong mortals. Why shouldn't they be killable? Besides, Gods can't really be killed. Defeated, maybe, but not killed. And if a God would get defeated for some reason, he would come back 100 times more prepared, probably with a big chunk of their army.


Besides, not all D&D gods (and the like) have stats.
Yeah. So? If they had stats they would be similar to the existing stats.

[danzibr]

They're just strong mortals.
K, so you're saying gods can be killed (unless I don't know what mortal means).

Besides, Gods can't really be killed.
K, so you're saying gods can't be killed.

[Darius Kane]

K, so you're saying gods can be killed (unless I don't know what mortal means).
Defeated. I said as much in the post you are selectively quoting out of context. And I'm using the same definition of "mortal" as you.


K, so you're saying gods can't be killed.
Unless there's DM fiat, a stronger God or some God killing artifact/monster (which means DM fiat) involved, yes, Gods can't be killed.

[danzibr]

And I'm using the same definition of "mortal" as you.
No... I was suggesting to the OP that the gods straight up be mortal. Like, regular people who got really strong and declared themselves gods. But they can be killed.

To me, mortal means you can die. Not just be defeated. Looks like we're just using the word differently.

[metabolicjosh]

My death god is the active hand in the campaign. He is a Spell-Stitched necropolitan with the Human Heritage. He has 20 Levels of Commoner and has 10 levels of warrior. He has the Demi-God epic destiny thing (Gives him miracle at-will). He uses miracle to prepare spells even after his destruction.

Otherwise he is normal...

[Darius Kane]

No... I was suggesting to the OP that the gods straight up be mortal. Like, regular people who got really strong and declared themselves gods. But they can be killed.

To me, mortal means you can die. Not just be defeated. Looks like we're just using the word differently.
I was talking about how D&D gods work.

[dascarletm]

...I am speechless, and will steal this idea for later campaigns. This is brilliant. :smallbiggrin:

(Just saying... Ur-Priest Gods probably don't steal power from themselves. They take it from the Dead Gods. If I make a game anytime soon, it will be based on this idea...)

I like this!

"I'm having one!"

[Kelb_Panthera]

I was talking about how D&D gods work.

The immortality ability shared by all gods says pretty plainly that gods can be killed in "magical or physical combat." Their immortality is temporal only and not contingent on meeting any kind of biological requirements.

[Darius Kane]

Oh well. Then they'll send their avatar or two to fight for them. No big deal.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So i always give my gods commoner level because i can't decide what to pick.
any ideas?

Don't.

If you stat them, they can be defeated. See also: Stuffy Doll.

It's best if you leave them unstatted omnipotent beings. Otherwise you devolve into the players deciding to knock off deities. Which never works out well.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Don't.

If you stat them, they can be defeated. See also: Stuffy Doll.

It's best if you leave them unstatted omnipotent beings. Otherwise you devolve into the players deciding to knock off deities. Which never works out well.

Caveat: Unless that's what you're shooting for. Good luck figuring out the consequences of deicide though.