Need assistance optimizing Feral Vampire Human

[DeadAggressor]

As topic. My DM is wanting to do an Evil campaign and I drew the short straw and have to be the "tank". I wanted to do something unorthodox and playing a Feral Vampire Human (Monk or something else) who doesn't use anything other then his body as his weapon, because vampires are so strong they don't need weapons. We have an ECL of 10 to work with and I convinced my DM to reduce the LA to 5 for Vampire but I lose the ability to create spawn which I am fine with. I mainly just want to pump my unarmed/claw damage through the roof while being able to trip/<grapple anything I fight. I've taken 2 flaws (Meager Fortitude & Shaky) and 2 traits (Aggressive & Quick). My stat rolls are 18, 16,14,15,15 and I dropped my lowest which was 13 into Con since it becomes -. I also have 90,000g to spend on anything I want. I'm just looking ways to optimize this type of character. I understand that having a LA of 6 in a ECL 10 game can and will hinder me, but I enjoy RPing certain things while trying to Min/Max. All books are allowed other then Dragon Magazines.

[Flickerdart]

With 4 HD and no Constitution modifier, you're not going to be tanking anything. Vampires are extremely brittle, and work a lot better as manipulators and stealthy assassins than meat walls. You'll have about 30 HP and no way to boost that at a level where that's the expected amount of damage for a single attack.

[Arcanist]

As topic. My DM is wanting to do an Evil campaign and I drew the short straw and have to be the "tank". I wanted to do something unorthodox and playing a Feral Vampire Human (Monk or something else) who doesn't use anything other then his body as his weapon, because vampires are so strong they don't need weapons. We have an ECL of 10 to work with and I convinced my DM to reduce the LA to 5 for Vampire but I lose the ability to create spawn which I am fine with. I mainly just want to pump my unarmed/claw damage through the roof while being able to trip/<grapple anything I fight. I've taken 2 flaws (Meager Fortitude & Shaky) and 2 traits (Aggressive & Quick). My stat rolls are 18, 16,14,15,15 and I dropped my lowest which was 13 into Con since it becomes -. I also have 90,000g to spend on anything I want. I'm just looking ways to optimize this type of character. I understand that having a LA of 6 in a ECL 10 game can and will hinder me, but I enjoy RPing certain things while trying to Min/Max. All books are allowed other then Dragon Magazines.


With 4 HD and no Constitution modifier, you're not going to be tanking anything. Vampires are extremely brittle, and work a lot better as manipulators and stealthy assassins than meat walls. You'll have about 30 HP and no way to boost that at a level where that's the expected amount of damage for a single attack.

Quite right *puffs from pipe and wiggles mustache* The Undead, despite a strong HD (d12) are incredibly brittle and weak so see if your DM is willing to allow you to use your Cha instead of your Con for extra HP since your tanking and then take Improved Toughness because it adds extra HP and is much better then regular Toughness (BECAUSE IT'S IMPROVED! :smallbiggrin:).

I must disagree with Flickerdart on Vampires being solely useful as Manipulators and Assassins (even though they are fluffed and often perceived as such), since I've seen what an optimized for combat Vampire can accomplish without magic. I recommend going with this savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) for the vampire template since it adds HD which would help you for HP :smallsmile:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Vampire + Natural Weapons doesn't even work, simply because you can only bestow negative levels once per round regardless of how many attacks you get. There's no reason to go Vampire on a natural-weapon-based build, it doesn't add anything.

Feral and many other templates state that you get additional abilities based on your hit dice. What they don't explicitly say is that they're only intended to give you those abilities for racial hit dice, not class levels. A feral PC with no racial HD will only get two claws, you won't have Improved Grab, Pounce, Rake, or Rend, and you won't even gain the fast healing.

I'd suggest going with a variant Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) that's based on a Goristro (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234089#4) from FC1. Put it on any +0 LA race you want, preferably Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), and you've got six class levels to work with. I'd go Warblade and focus on Tiger Claw and Iron Heart. If you want tons of natural attacks just go Totemist instead. With that much cash starting out you can get a Monk's Belt and be better off than anyone with levels in the Monk class.

[Analytica]

Vampire + Natural Weapons doesn't even work, simply because you can only bestow negative levels once per round regardless of how many attacks you get.

I think there is a literal "Feral Vampire" template they may also be referring to, though.

That said, I would do an evil tank either as a summoner or as some form of evil sorcadin equivalent with Cha to everything defensive.

[Eldan]

Yeah, the feral vampire is a special one. Bit more melee oriented, if I remember correctly, with the ability to sleep anywhere underground instead of a coffin, and a few other goodies.

Now, as a vampire, you'll never have very high hit points, so I'd consider other sources of tanking, if you really have to. First of all, you have fast healing and damage reduction. Try to survive from round to round and heal yourself as often as possible.

A crusader's delayed damage might work well for you, as would healing maneuvers. Try and start there, perhaps.

[Spuddles]

As others have said, you're going to have a hard time roleplaying anything if you go down the first time something makes contact.

On the undead front, you could probably get more out of a Necropolitan gish if you wanted that blend of melee and magic. I recommend Duskblade.

If you put it in your backstory, any undead that was created by a specialist wizard with corpsecrafter and a desecrated altar gives you +6 HP/level. You're going to want that.

[Madara]

Necropolitan Half-Vampire. Only has 2 LA. Ask if the Blood Drain can be based on Charisma. That would be the best "Vampire" I can think of, since the actual template is terrible.

[DeadAggressor]

So after a few days of scouring books this is what I came up with

Feral Vampire Human L4 Monk (Passive Way) (ECL10)

STR 26
CON -
DEX 20
INT 13
WIS 20
CHA 18

59 HP

3d8+14 Damage with US
1d8+4 Damage with Slam & Claws

2 Flaws and 2 Traits

1st - Jotunbrud, Multiattack, Deft Opportunist, Imp. Toughness
3rd - Prone Attack
Bonus Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Imp. Init, Lightning Reflexes, Imp. Unarmed Reflexes,Combat Expertise, Imp. Trip.

For items I bought:
Neck of Natural Weapons
+1 Enhancement and Collision

Cloak of Displacement, Minor
with Cloak of Dark Power (Cont)

Ghost Shroud

Shiftweave

Monk's Belt

Anklet of Translocation

Straps of Mighty Wallop
Might Wallop (Cont)

Fanged Ring

Does anyone have any other inputs?

[killianh]

well for starters having less than 60 hp at ECL ten isn't going to help you tank anything.

Feral half vampire would probably be better for you HP wise. If you really want to go unarmed base it off of a barbarian rather than a monk as the extra attacks won't help you as much since you'll have less HP than normal and be MAD. See also if you're DM will allow for LA buy off from unearthed arcane. It's the only way LA over 2 is ever worth it.

[Flickerdart]

well for starters having less than 60 hp at ECL ten isn't going to help you tank anything.

Feral half vampire would probably be better for you HP wise. If you really want to go unarmed base it off of a barbarian rather than a monk as the extra attacks won't help you as much since you'll have less HP than normal and be MAD. See also if you're DM will allow for LA buy off from unearthed arcane. It's the only way LA over 2 is ever worth it.
Considering that you can only buy off LA fully up to 3, LA of greater than 2 isn't worth it even with buyoff.

[GreenSerpent]

Considering that you can only buy off LA fully up to 3, LA of greater than 2 isn't worth it even with buyoff.

Actually you can, he just wouldn't buy it all off before epic levels.

LA of 4 would be bought off at levels 12, 21, 27 and 30.
Whereas a LA of 6 would be bought off at *sigh* 18, 33, 45, 54, 60 and 63.