[PF] Oradin Mini-Guide. Or, How to be a Healbot, minus the 'bot'

[grarrrg]

Oradin

Contents:
Post 1

Summary/Overview
Life Link and Shield Other
Stat Arrangement
Sample Builds

Post 2

Race Options
Base Classes
Prestige Options
Post 3

Feats
Traits
Mythic
Equipment


Summary:

I like this build for the ability to heal on the side without disrupting your ability to fight. It seems perfect for that....It's not a lot of hp transferred, but it is enough to match your healing amount. Most importantly it's not very build intensive, any paladin can dip on the side.
...
So, nice battle healer. It's a great way to bring in healing when nobody wants to be the healer, and killing to prevent enemy damage is also helpful of course.


This is a Mini-Guide that will explore various options for optimizing your Oradin.

The Oradin was created as a Non-bot-Healbot character.
Most groups want in-combat healing, but in-combat healing is generally a poor use of resources, typically requiring not only a Standard action to cast the spell, but most Cure-type spells are Touch range, requiring the healer to be near the front-lines as well and/or making them use their Move action to get to the injured player.
Also, the player behind the character (usually) quickly comes to hate 'just healing every round'.

The Oradin is a combination of Oracle and Paladin that has most of the healing of your typical Healbot, but withOUT the monotony of "I cast Cure X Wounds" every round. It has high Bab, is fairly free with it's feats (allowing for a variety of builds alongside the healing), and, most importantly, usually only requires a Swift action every now and then to keep the ENTIRE GROUP healed.

For those of you unfamiliar with the build/concept here's a quick rundown (spoilered for space/length):
1+ Levels of Oracle with the Life Mystery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/life), grabbing the Life Link revelation. This allows you to form a 'bond' with an Ally. At the beginning of each round, if that ally is hurt they automatically heal 5HP, and the Oracle loses 5HP. You may only have as many Life Links active as you do Oracle levels.
The main benefit of this is that you don't have to worry about chasing everyone down to heal them. You can just heal yourself.
The Life Mystery also offers Channel Energy for healing (positive energy only).

The 2nd part of the build is 2+ Levels of Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin). Lay on Hands can be used on yourself as a Swift action, instead of the normal other-target-Standard action.
So every round your Life Link(s) will trigger, and if needed you just spend a Swift action to heal yourself, leaving your Standard+Move or Full actions free to do as you please.

Life Link vs. Shield Other (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shield-other)
Shield Other is similar in concept to Life Link, but functions differently enough that an Oradin can still make good use of both.

Shield Other is a 2nd level Divine Spell. When the Target is attacked/injured it only takes 1/2 damage, and the other 1/2 is transferred to you, the caster.
Shield Other is better in that it transfers the damage instantly, so there is less chance of, say, the Wizard being 1-shotted. Whereas Life Link the original target takes all of the damage, and is slowly, but fully, healed/transferred over multiple rounds.
The downside to Shield Other is that it is a 2nd level spell, using a slot that could be used for something else, and making it less accessible for low level starts.
Shield Other also has a duration of 1 hour/level, which while generous, still can't compare to the unlimited-duration Life Link.
Shield Other has a range of 25ft. +5 per 2 levels, Life Link has a Medium Range of 100ft. +10/level.

In case of Emergency (i.e. YOU are about to die), any/all Life Link(s) can be ended with one Immediate action. Shield Other requires a Standard action to end, and each must be ended separately.

Finally, you may only have as many Life Links active as you have levels of Oracle. The only quantity limits on Shield Other are how many level 2 spell slots you have.

Final verdict: Shield Other (if/when you get it) should go on the Squishier characters, Life Link for everyone else, and possibly Life Link for the Squishies as well.


Stat Arrangement
The Oradin is only slightly MAD, it wants/needs 3 Stats to function: CON, CHA, and either STR or DEX.
CON, since you are basically an 'HP Battery' you want as much HP as possible. Favored Class Bonus will usually be +1 HP for this reason (although a variety of races can apply Favored Bonus to better Lay on Hands healing).
CHA is useful for your Oracle and Paladin spellcasting, gives you more uses of Channel Energy from Oracle, and more uses of Lay on Hands from Paladin. It also adds to all of your Saving Throws thanks to Divine Grace.
STR and/or DEX will be important for whatever else you want your character to do. STR+Heavy Armor for a Front-Line warrior, or DEX for Ranged fighting.
INT is always handy if you can spare the points.
WIS is your dump stat. Both Oracle and Paladin have good Will Saves, and Paladin adds your CHA to your Will save as well.

Sample 'no race' 15 Point-Buy:
STR 16 (switch or split with DEX as desired)
DEX 10 (assuming Heavy Armor)
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 7
CHA 14
Obviously, any Race with a bonus to CON/CHA is preferred.

Low CHA
Low/No CHA options will be highlighted in Green
While the High/Good CHA approach is preferred, it is possible to make a functional Low-CHA Oradin build. In this case you'll probably have a WIS-based class as your Caster half.
Oracles: The Life Link ability is not dependent on CHA, and you'd only want/need enough CHA to cast your Oracle Spells, which will usually only be 1st or 2nd spells, so 12 CHA is enough.

It's also possible to go without Oracle altogether, although you would then need to be able to cast Shield Other. Other Classes with access to the spell are Cleric and Inquisitor. There are ways to add Shield Other to other classes spell lists. These options will be explored more in the Alternate Class options section.
Paladins: There are a variety of archetypes that trade out the heavier CHA features, like Divine Grace, Spellcasting, etc... for other useful abilities.



Sample Builds

Half-Elf (trade 'Skill Focus' for '+2 Will Save'
Stats (assume 15 points, scale up if needed)
STR 16 (14+2 race)
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 7
CHA 16 (14+2 leveling)

Oracle 4 (no archetype)
Curse: Wolfscarred Face
Revelations: Life Link (4 links), Channel (4 uses, 4d6)
Elf Favored bonus can be used for HP/SP/+up to 4 Orisons/+1 1st level spell.

Paladin 6 (Hospitaler)
Notable abilities:
Elf Favored bonus x6 for +3 to Lay on hands.
Lay on Hands (8 uses, 6d6+15 self, or 6d6+3 others)
Channeling (6 uses, 4d6)

Notable Equipment:
A good 2-handed weapon
A good set of Heavy Armor
Boots of the Earth (spend a Move action, gain Fast Heal 1 until you move. FREE HEALING ALL DAY FOREVER!)
Bracers of the Merciful Knight (+2/day Lay on Hands, +2d6 to Lay on Hands)
A few Meditation Crystals (for saving/converting Channels into Lay on Hands uses)
Phylactery of Positive Channeling (all Channeling gets +2d6)

Notable feats:
Fey Foundling
Power Attack
Toughness
Greater Mercy



COMING SOON!!!*
Basics:
Dwarf as Race for +CON, +WIS, and Inquisitor Favored Bonus
Vitalist 1/Inquisitor 9
Fast Healing 5 during combat
Righteous Healing feat gives Cure spells an extra +4 hp when in combat

*"soon" not available in your area


Oracle 1, Life Mystery
Take Life Link Revelation
Buy Boots of the Earth
Free unlimited healing for everyone ever!

You only get one active Life Link at a time, so just switch it around as you top people off.

*Note: above 'build' is not very helpful _during_ combat*

[grarrrg]

Race Options
Main Seven:
Dwarves, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha: The CON is nice, but the CHA really hurts. Overall a sub-par choice. Becomes much better if you take Low CHA options (obviously).
Elves, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int: Mediocre stats, still better than Dwarf for a 'normal' Oradin though. Has great Favored Class bonus options for both Paladin and Oracle: +1/2 HP healed with Lay on Hands, or +1/6 towards an Oracle Revelation. The stats are still pretty bad though, much better off going Half-Elf, then you can put the +2 where you want AND still take the Elf Favored options!
Gnome, -2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha: Solid stats, and same Paladin Favored option as Elves make this one of the best options. Oracle favored bonus is +1/2 level towards Oracle Curse, may or may not be worth it depending on just how many levels of Oracle you plan on ending with. Vivacious is also handy alt-racial trait that boosts your healing.
Half-Elves, +2 Any: The only race to get 2 Favored Classes, the Skilled feat can be kept, or traded for the Weapon Prof. of your choice, or +2 Will saves. As a "Half" Race, can select from either the Elf Favored options, the Human Favored options, or their own. Select a stat + decent Racials + lots of Favored options = SWEET!
Halfling, -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha: Good choice for a Ranged Oradin due to the STR/DEX mods, and the small size boosts your accuracy and AC. Also has the +1/2 HP to Lay on Hands Favored ability, and the +1/2 level towards Curse.
Half-Orc, +2 Any: Decent choice. The main draw here over going Human is the Orc Ferocity trait acting as a safety net. Can be bumped up to 'monster' Ferocity by way of a Feat. Despite being a "Half" Race, it doesn't really get much for options, as Orcs do not have options for Paladin or Oracle. Human>Paladin for Energy Resist, or Oracle for the extra Spells known are the best choices here.
Human, +2 Any: Always a solid choice. The stat goes where you want it, the extra Skill point helps if you dumped INT, and the Bonus feat is sweet. Paladin favored bonus can be useful, Oracle is very nice if going Oracle heavy.

Other Races: (only noteworthy ones, I'll probably miss a nice ability, please point it out in the most obnoxious way possible)
Aasimar, +2 Wis, +2 Cha: The base Aasimar is fairly average, offering Energy Resist 5 to Acid/Cold/Electricity. But if you are allowed access to Variant Heritage, they can get much better, getting either CON/CHA, STR/CHA, or DEX/CHA. And there are some decent bonuses in the Variant Ability table as well. Oracle Favored bonus of +1/6 level towards a Revelation.
Duergar +2 Con, +2 Wis, -4 Cha, definitely NOT for Cha-based builds. But having Immunity to Paralysis and Poison, as well as a +2 racial bonus on ALL Saves makes them fairly tough. The 1/day each Enlarge Person and Invisibility are just icing on the Cake. Great for Inquisitor/Cleric based builds.
Gillmen, +2 Con, -2 Wis, +2 Cha: Great stats, but not much in the way of Racials other than Swim Speed. Water Dependent hurts (seriously, as in DEATH). There are Alt-Racials to get rid of Water Dependent, but you either gain Vulnerability to Fire (bad), or lose the Swim Speed (which is the best trait anyway). If it's an Aquatic Campaign, sure. If not, SKIP IT!
Ifrit, +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha: Good stats, Fire Resist 5 is always nice, can take an Alt-Race traits for 1/day Enlarge Person, and/or healing when taking Fire damage (limited). Oracle Favored bonus of +1/6 level towards a Revelation.
Merfolk: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Cha: Excellent stats, +2 Natural Armor, and Immune to being Tripped. But has _5_ft. land speed with 50ft. swim speed. HIGHLY recommend taking the Strong Tail Alt-Racial for 15ft. land/30ft. swim.
Samsaran, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, The Con penalty hurts, but the Mystic Past Life alt-Racial Trait lets you fudge your spell lists some. The Wis bonus makes it a slightly better choice for a Low-Cha build.
Suli, +2 Str, -2 Int, +2 Cha: Solid stats, Energy Resist 5 to Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire.
Svirfneblin, -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -4 Cha: Hahahahaha. No.
Tengu +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Wis, despite the Con penalty, they make a solid choice for Inquisitor based-builds, the Sword Training trait helps make up for the lack of Martial Weapon profs.
Tiefling, +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha: Energy Resist 5 to Cold/Electricity/Fire, the CHA Penalty hurts, but the Paladin Favored bonus is SWEET, a FULL +1HP when using Lay on Hands, but only when healing yourself. They also have Variant Heritages/Abilities like Aasimar's do. The best overall Heritage is probably Kyton with +2 CON, -2 WIS, +2 CHA, although there are others with +CHA. Best. Race. Possible. (for Paladin heavy builds)
Special Note:
Dhampir = BAD. They are treated as Undead for the purposes of Positive/Negative energy. BUT if you can get your DM to agree that Antipaladin's Touch of Corruption can be used on-self as a Swift (by default it can't), then a Chaotic Evil Dhampir could work as an Anti-Oradin.

The only standouts here are Half-Giant for the beatdowns, and Duergar for outright replacing Dwarf.

Dromite -2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CHA, Small, +1 Natural Armor, and 5 Energy Resist of your choice. They also have the Scent ability.
Duergar +2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 CHA, basically a Dwarf. They even count as Dwarves for anything racial. Has 1/day use of Expansion power.
Elan +2 Any, gives a few additional options for using your Power Points.
Half-Giant +2 STR, -2 DEX, +2 WIS, now we're talking! Powerful Build and a STR bonus! Bring on the smashies! Other than that, nothing really worth mentioning.
Maenad +2 Any, can spend a Power Point every round to enter a 'mini-rage' (mechanically more similar to Alchemist Mutagen than Rage, but...), and the option to take Barbarian levels even if Lawful. Nice, but nothing great.
Ophiduan +2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 CHA, for 1 minute/day they can gain a high damage Bite attack (1d8 at first, +1d8 every additional 5 levels!), use is greatly limited due to poor duration.
Xeph -2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CHA, +1 to All Saves vs Powers/Spells/Spell-Likes, 3/day they can gain a large boost to Movement speed.
Blue -2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 INT, Small. Blues really don't have much of anything to offer, but I listed 7 out of 8 Psionic Races, so I figured I should throw them in for sake of completeness.


Class Options
The Paladin
Bare minimum of Paladin levels: 2
2 levels of Paladin gets you +1d6 Lay on Hands useable CHA + 1/2 your Paladin Level per day.

Recommended levels: 4+
4 levels of Paladin gives you a Mercy, the option to use Lay on Hands to Channel Energy, various Immunities, and also begins your Paladin spellcasting (although Channel Energy is not gained until level 4, it still uses your Full Paladin level to determine how powerful it is).

The majority of your Oradin levels should probably be in Paladin. The primary reason for this is that Lay on Hands scales exponentially; every 2 levels of Paladin increases the healing by +1d6, and gives you +1/day uses.

Good Archetypes:
Hospitaler loses some uses of Smite Evil, but gains a dedicated Channel Energy pool with 3+CHA uses/day. Note: unlike Normal Paladin Channeling, Hospitaler has a -3 effective level penalty for its Channeling, still very worth it for the separate pool though. This frees up Lay on Hands for Self-use, and for Mercy/Status healing.
Sacred Servant trades some uses of Smite Evil, but picks up a Domain (powers scale at level-3). Also forms a Divine Bond with Holy Symbol for Extra Lay on Hands uses, and/or +1d6 to Channel Energy (amongst other possibilities).
Warrior of the Holy Light loses all spellcasting, but gains extra uses of Lay on Hands. Can spend Lay on Hands to create various beneficial Auras/bursts, including healing 1d4 points of Ability Damage.

Archetypes with Potential:
Divine Hunter is decent if going the Ranged attack route. The main ability to take note of is trading your 6th level Mercy for the ability to use Lay on Hands at range.
Holy Tactician doesn't lose any of the 'important' features, but trades Smite for 'group Smite', also loses more of the Auras and Immunities, in exchange, at 3rd you can grant all Allies within 30ft. the use of a Teamwork feat (Unlimited Duration), and at 8th you can spend a Move action to give everyone else a free 5ft. step.
Sacred Shield trades Smite Evil for the ability to project an Aura that protects allies from 1/2 damage for the chosen Evil target, the Paladin still takes full damage, but gets an AC bonus. BUT it also trades away Channel Energy for the ability to share your full Shield AC with nearby allies.
Stonelord, Dwarf-Only (note: this archetype trades away the majority of Paladin's CHA-dependent features for non-CHA-dependant features). Lose Divine Grace, but gain 1/2 DR/Adamantine per level. Channel Energy becomes strictly Earth-Elemental Channeling, lose almost all of your Mercies, and lose all spellcasting, in exchange you gain a chance to ignore Critical/Sneak damage taken, and gain a Defensive Stance as per the Stalwart Defender PrC. Normally Defensive Stances are less than stellar, but an Oradin is one of the few classes where they can be useful. Still maintains Full Lay on Hands.

Poor/Bad Archetypes:
Oath of Charity: your Lay on Hands is only 50% effective on yourself, but 150% effective on others. Since you are mainly using it on yourself, this is bad.

Other Archetypes:
If the archetype loses Lay on Hands and/or Channel Energy, and doesn't give a suitable replacement, then skip it.
All other archetypes do not significantly alter relevant abilities. You are free to use them at your discretion.


The Oracle
Bare minimum of Oracle levels: 1
1 level of Oracle gets you Life Link on 1 ally, or 1+CHA/Day Channel Energy (1d6). Can take the Extra Revelation feat for both, but you should REALLY just take...

Recommended levels: 3+
3 levels of Oracle, Can have both Channel Energy (2d6) and Life Link on up to 3 allies. More Oracle can be taken if more Life Links are needed/desired. Level 4 is highly recommended as it nets you some level 2 spells (and it's the last level before another Bab drop)
Quick Note, the Hellknight Signifier PrC will stack with Oracle for all Mystery related effects. In this case, more Life Links, and better Channel Dice.
Curses: Note, Curses scale at 1/2 rate for every non-Oracle level you take, due to the low amount of Oracle in the build it is doubtful the 15th level bonus will be reached, so it will not be factored into the ranking. Any Curse not listed is assumed to be 'neutral', doesn't really help or hurt.
Potential Curses:
-Clouded Vision, limits your sight range, gives Darkvision and Blindsense.
-Deaf, you cannot hear, but all spells count as Silent-ed, and gain bonuses on non-hearing Perception.
-Lame, your land speed is permanently reduced, but you become Immune to Fatigue, and cannot have your land speed reduced further (i.e. heavy load/armor).
-Wolfscarred face, gain a Bite attack but all your Verbal spells have a 20% chance of Failure (you do NOT lose the slot, you merely waste your action). This 20% chance of failure also applies to Paladin spellcasting. Since your in-combat actions are likely to be Fighting and Channeling Energy, this is fairly moot.
Bad Curses:
-Blackened, -4 on To-Hit rolls is bad, and gaining Spells Known has issues (see Haunted below). Gets slightly better for Natural Attack builds.
-Consumed, VERY bad, you take extra (non-lethal) damage on every hit, and the level 5 bonus is partially worthless when paired with your Paladin Immunities.
-Haunted, you mainly get more Spells Known, but you'll likely get the Spells added to your list before you can even cast spells of that level (if ever).
-Wasting, the Immunities you gain are largely covered by the Paladin side already. Gains potential if Paladin archetype trades them away.
-Wrecker, any weapon you hold is treated as Broken (-2 To-Hit and Damage), bonuses mainly only affect Objects/Constructs.

Good Archetypes:
Pei Zin Oracle gives Lay on Hands > Single Class Oradin.

Archetypes with Potential:
Dual-Cursed, you must choose 2 Curses (one of them never improves), and get an extra Revelation at level 5. Recommended for Larger Parties (where you're going to want more Life Links). A good pairing is Deaf and Wolfscarred, as the Silent Spells from Deaf negates the penalty from Wolfscarred (again, both of these apply to Paladin spellcasting as well).
Planar Oracle, pre-assigned level 3 Revelation, but it's a decent one, it gives Energy Resist 10 for the energy of your choice. Throw on the Extra Revelation feat and you're good to go.
Spirit Guide Loses Revelations at 3, 7, and 15, which is pretty harsh, BUT it opens up a LOT of options (if you are willing to take the Extra Revelations feat). You can either go Life Mystery and add cherry pick the Spirit abilities/bonus spells of your choice (change each day!). OR you can choose a Non-Life Mystery, and get 'the essentials' from the Life Spirit (Life Link, Channling).

Poor/Bad Archetypes:
Quick note: Some of these become better if you are willing to spend a feat on Extra Revelation and/or are going to be taking 7+ levels of Oracle.
Black-Blood Oracle, functions more as a Curse than a true archetype. You must take the Black-Blood Curse which treats you as Undead for Channel Energy. This could be a solid choice for Antipaladins if your DM rules Touch of Corruption can be used on Self as a Swift (by RAW it cannot).
Community Guardian, Halfling-Only, preassigned level 1 and 3 Revelations.
Possessed, must take Haunted or Tongues as your Curse. preassigned 1st level Revelation.
Purifier, Aasimar-Only, preassigned 3rd level Revelation.
Reincarnated, Samsaran-Only, must take Haunted or Tongues Curse, semi-preassigned 1st and 3rd level Revelations.
Seeker, you lose your 3rd level Revelation.
Seer, preassigned level 1 and 3 Revelations
Stargazer, preassigned level 1 Revelation.
Other Archetypes:
Any not listed above are assumed to be 'neutral', doesn't really help or hurt.

Variant Multiclassing Options
Unchained allows Variant Multiclassing, whereby you sacrifice half of your Feats in order to gain Class features of another class.
Paladin+ VMC Oracle
What do you get?
Curse at 1st level that advances at 1/2 rate, at level 11 you get a +5 effective level. So your 5th-level-Curse upgrade will come at level 10, and your 10th-level-Curse upgrade will come at 11, eventually reaching 15-level Curse upgrade at level 20.
You get one Revelation at 3rd level, from a list (all of Life Mystery except Combat Healer is available), treating your effective Oracle level as -6 (min. 1), and you can NOT take Extra Revelation Feat. Choose VERY carefully. You get a 2nd Revelation at 15, and a 3rd at 19.
This means that you are limited to ONE active Life Link until level 8. If you take Channeling, it will be -3d6 behind an equivalent level character.
You also get _1_ Orison at level 7. Glorious Heat + Spark Orison would be more tempting if you weren't feat starved from being VMC.
Verdict: Most of the "good stuff" doesn't really come online until level 10+, either due to slow Curse scaling, the massive "-6 level" penalty on Revelation usefulness, or the near utter lack of Revelations. While you do get _1_ Life Link at level 3, I would NOT recommended for play under level 10, just do a normal Multi-class instead.

Oracle + Paladin VMC
What do you get?
Must follow The Code at 1st level
Detect Evil at 3rd
Lay on Hands at 7th, at effective level -4, 1/2 your character level of times per day. So an 8th level Oracle would count as a 4th level Paladin (2d6), with 4/day uses.
Smite Evil at 11th, 1/day, effective level -4
One Mercy at 15th level (must choose from 3rd level mercies)
Divine Bond at 19th, effective level -3
Verdict: Overall poor. Much better than Paladin+VMC-Oracle at low levels, as you have full Revelations and can just use Cure spells on yourself. But it's not all that impressive at higher levels. Most of the bonuses are quite weak for when you get them, and while some can be improved by feats (Extra Lay on Hands, Extra Mercy), you don't really have feats to be throwing at them. Would definitely recommend getting Braces of the Merciful Knight and some Meditation Crystals ASAP to make up for the pitiful #/day on Lay on Hands.

Other Options:
Adding VMC Cavalier
Low levels gets 1/day Challenge, and a 2nd level Order ability
High levels gets (Greater) Tactician and the 8th level Order ability
The most interesting option here is Order of the Star, you get to add half of your Cavalier level to your Paladin/Cleric level for determining the effects of Lay on Hands and Channeling (should work for Oracle Channeling as well, as Channeling works by "Effective Cleric Level").

Adding VMC Cleric
Low levels gets a 1st level Domain Power, and Channeling as Cleric -6 levels, Limited Spontaneous Cure/Inflict casting
High levels gets the other Domain Power, and Channeling improves to Cleric -2 levels
Getting a 2nd (or 3rd) Channeling pool has it's benefits, and some Domain powers can be quite nice (Healing Domain auto-Empowering all Cure spells for free is nice)

Adding VMC Fighter
Low levels grant Bravery, Armor Training 1
High levels grant Armor Training 2 and Weapon Training 1 & 2
Weapon Training winds up better than just spending feats on 'Weapon Focus'-like feats, Armor Training is handy if you didn't pick the Lame Curse

Adding VMC Sorcerer
Compared to the Eldritch Heritage line of feats VMC Sorcerer is slightly slower (only the 3rd level power comes sooner by way of VMC), but saves you a feat (no need for Skill Focus).

Alternate Base classes:
Some main abilities to look for: Sharing HP, Ranged Healing, Quick Healing, and Self Healing.
Replacing the Oracle component:
Oracle is the only way to get the Life Link ability, but Shield Other is also on the Cleric and Inquisitor lists, and can be easily added to the other Divine lists (mainly Druid/Shaman) by way of the Samsaran race (which is a decent race otherwise).

Cleric is a good overall choice due to Spontaneous Cures, and Channel Energy

Shaman(while the Casting is WIS based, most of the side abilities depend on CHA) (note: pre-errata Shaman Life Link was horrible, post-errata 'upgraded' it to work the same as Oracle Life Link) Life Spirit grants Life Link, and gets a Channeling pool. Also has the ability to cast Cure spells or Channel as a Swift action CHA/day times. Generally not as good as Oracle due to needing 2 stats for optimum functionality, but a solid replacement nonetheless.

Witches, while having access to many "healing"-type spells make poor choices, as they do not have easy access to Shield Other. They make good replacements for "traditional" healers though, as their two Healing Hexes are fair replacements for Channeling (though MUCH more limited), and they can Spontaneously cast Cure spells by way of the Hedge Witch archetype.

Replacing the Paladin component:
Warpriest is probably the best all around Paladin replacement class, as they have a reliable Lay on hands replacement. They can also be of any alignment, are competent in Melee, and have up to 6th level spells. You do lose out on most of the other Paladin goodies though (Smite, CHA all saves, etc...).
The Healing Blessing is great for downtime healing, adding free Empower to your Cure spells, or Fast Healing 3 for 10 rounds.
Makes a decent Single-class Oradin replacement, or pair with Vitalist.

Inquisitors can gain Fast Healing X through their Judgment ability equal to 1+1/3 of their Inquisitor levels. This also makes Inquisitors a Single-Class 'Oradin' option (through it will have much weaker healing).
Dwarves make great Inquisitoracles, they have a Favored Bonus of +1/2 Inquisitor level for purposes of one Judgment effect. So a Dwarf Inquisitor could have Fast Healing 1+1/2 Inquisitor levels.
If you do take levels of Oracle, don't be concerned about having good Cha, as you'll only need as much as necessary to cast whatever level Oracle spells you have. Recommend skipping Channel Energy Revelation and taking something else.
Also, you could just go straight Inquisitor and forget all about CHA.

Alchemists can take the Spontaneous Healing and Healing Touch discoveries for limited healing. Spontaneous Healing gives you 5HP per 2 levels per day that you can use to heal yourself with as a Free Action. Healing Touch increases this to 5HP per level per day, and you can heal others as a Standard action. Alchemists also have all Cure spells on their Spell Formula List. You can also pick up a Familiar by way of Discovery (see the Familiar section at bottom of this post). The Chirurgeon archetype is recommended.

Another option would be Straight Oracle, grabbing the Energy Body revelation as soon as feasible. It costs a Standard action to start, but every round as a Move action you can heal yourself for 1d6+Oracle level, and Allies can pass through your space to gain this healing as well. Sadly, it only lasts for a number of Rounds equal to your Oracle level.

Other Classes:
Note: The Oradin is perfectly functional without needing to multi-class further. That being said...
Cavalier with Order of the Shield for 2 levels lets you convert 1 damage of every hit into Nonlethal damage (it does scale with more levels, must be wearing Heavy Armor). With the way Magical Healing interacts with Nonlethal damage, this is basically DR/-.

Fighter with the Unbreakable archetype for 1 level trades your normal Bonus Feat for Endurance and Diehard. While the feats are 'meh' on their own, they are pre-reqs for other feats, some of which can be handy.

Skald As-is nothing too helpful. It does get 6th level CHA-based arcane casting from the Bard list, so most of the Cure spells are there. The real draw is when you add the Skald's Vigor > Greater Skald's Vigor feats. The basic version gives you Fast Healing equal to the STR bonus (yes Bonus, NOT Mod) of your Song while your maintain it. The Greater version lets you share it with everyone. If you can find a way to get Amplified Rage to work (not 100% RAW legal, but RAI has potential) it can boost the Fast Healing by +4.

The VITALADIN!
Vitalist/Collective is a viable replacement for the Oracle/Life Link component
The Collective ability is like an inverted Life Link. You form bonds with members of a group, but instead of sending all the damage to you, you send out the healing to everyone else.
An additional bonus is that if _anyone_ in the group is healed, you can STILL redirect the healing to others.

Note on the Collective ability: You can only have as many members (besides yourself) equal to 1/2 your Vitalist level, OR your WIS score, whichever is higher (and levels/WIS don't "stack" for extra members either).
So you generally either need a good number of Vitalist levels (6+), or a good WIS to go along with your CHA (which is why this is a Green option.
On the other hand, if you have a decent WIS score to begin with, and can afford a WIS (or all mental) boosting item, then you can get away with a mere 1 level of Vitalist!

The Transfer Wounds ability can also be handy (more-so after a battle). As a Standard Action you can touch someone, they are healed for 1d6 and you take an equal amount of nonlethal damage. Given that magical healing 'works double' for nonlethal damage, this can be a nice little bonus.

(quote with some edits added)

The Vitaladin in short:
PROS:
-Swift Action healing of anybody with Lay on Hands, with Fey Foundling bonus
-If someone else heals, you can take that healing for yourself
-Can share psionic buffs with people
-Access to psionic feats
-Don't need to take a curse
-Potentially less need to have high levels in the secondary class (Vitalist)

CONS:
-Vitalist only has a d6 hit die, and 1/2 Bab
-Increase in MAD
-Most psionic healing powers use flat numbers instead of dice, so no Fey Foundling for them
-Potentially greater need to have high levels in the secondary class (Vitalist)

(quote with some edits)

Battle Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/battle-templar) PrC:
- progresses Channel Energy, Lay on Hands, and Oracle Curse
- has resourceless healing (Martial Healing - when initiating a strike it grants a rider effect that allows spending a swift action to heal 1d4/maneuver level+class level. To himself or an ally in close range).
- may cast benevolent spells as a move action (as long as he uses a strike in the same round) on himself.
- The capstone is basically free action healing (10hp/spell level expended, all allies in a 60ft radius).

It also allows for an Oradin without Oracle or Paladin. Because a Warder1/Cleric4 works wonders (it needs those higher-level slots to power the abilities) with this class.
Then again, Paladin2/Oracle4 entering through Martial Training has an Initiator Level advantage.

There's the Martial Power feat that grants you +2 temp HP for a -1 to attack (+3 if using a shield) per 3 points of BAB. It's basically a free HP pool to power the Life Link feed.

A 6th level Silver Crane stance gives you fast healing 5.

I'd argue that a Silver Crane/Iron Tortoise Oracle4/Warder16 would make a better Oradin than the actual Oradin.
The healing strikes are ridiculously potent - a 6th level Strike that deals an additional 12d6 damage and heals the initiator for 60hp? Yes, please.

Prestige Options:
Note: The Oradin is perfectly functional without needing to multi-class further. That being said...
Holy Vindicator is by far the best PrC option. It has d10HD, Full Bab, 7/10 Divine casting, AND stacks for Channel Energy power. It can be entered as an Oracle 3/Paladin 4, apply the Casting to the Oracle levels, and the Channel boost to the Paladin levels (strongly recommend Hospitaler for the separate Paladin Channel pool). You will lose Lay on Hands uses/power, but you make up for it with greatly increased Casting ability. And starting at 3rd, any Self-Targeted Cure spells are treated as if Empowered.

(remaining PrC's are in alphabetical order)
Divine Scion has full spellcasting and gains Domain Specialization at 3rd level, you pick a Domain (ANY domain, does NOT have to be one you have), and anytime you cast a Spell from that Domain's spell you heal HP equal to the spells levelx2. This can be handy for the more Caster focused Oradins, but choose your Domain VERY carefully.

Evangelist at first glance is nothing special. But starting at 2nd level it stacks _completely_ with any of your other classes (you must pick one class, and you cannot 'switch'). You still get the 'basics' from Evangelist though (3/4 Bab, 6 Skills/level, d8HD, Good Ref Save). It doesn't provide a whole lot of bonuses on its own, but the "stacks with anything" combined with the 6 Skills/level means you could make a Skill-Monkey Oradin if you are so inclined.

Hellknight Signifier is similar to Holy Vindicator in that you gain increased Casting and Channel Energy (but it can only stack for Oracle, not Paladin Channeling). It also stacks for the number of active Life Links you can have. The problem is that you need 3rd level spells to qualify, which either means 6+ levels of Oracle, or 10+ of Paladin. It is more Casting focused than Holy Vindicator.
NOTE: attempting to stack Holy Vindicator with Hellknight Signifier is...not optimal. Vindicator is easier to qualify for, but requires the Alignment Channel feat (or Elemental Channel). The first level of Signifier will give you Alignment Channel as a bonus feat, but you need 3rd level spells to qualify. 3rd level spells are easier to get if you *sigh* take levels in Holy Vindicator.
That being said, Signifier is still nice to finish out a Vindicator build: Oracle 3/Paladin 4/Holy Vindicator 10/Hellknight Signifier 3.

Inheritor's Crusader can double the radius of your Aura of Courage, but the casting must go towards Paladin. Skip it.

Surprisingly, the normally sub-par (i.e. HORRENDOUS) Stalwart Defender becomes a decent option. d12HD, DR/-. Some Defensive Stance powers are quite nice as well, more DR, making AoO's to stop opponent's movement, Intercept lets you take an attack aimed at an ally, etc... Paladin is still probably better overall, but it is an option.

(most pointed out by Castilonium)
Quick facts: Familiar Bab/Saves/Skills/HP are always based on their master's Character level/stats > Familiars always have Max-HP equal to half of their Master's Max-HP. Familiar's Special Abilities are based on their master's "effective Wizard level". So even if you have a low 'wizard level', your Familiar will still have 1/2 of your max HP, and all of your Bab.

There is one archetype for Familiars that stands out. The Protector archetype gets Bodyguard and Combat Reflexes as bonus feats right away, these combine to let your Familiar Aid Another to boost AC as an AoO multiple times per round.
At Familiar-level 5 when you are touching your Familiar you can redirect damage as if under Shield Other, and the damage-redirect is optional. On it's own this can effectively increase your HP by half, and improves the efficiency of any Channeling you do.
At Familiar level 11 it gains In Harm's Way as a bonus feat will let your Familiar take a hit instead of you.

On it's own the Protector archetype can make for a fairly useful "HP-storage unit" for an Oradin.
There are a variety of ways to get a Familiar: Dipping a class that gains one, taking an Archetype that grants one, taking Skill Focus>Eldritch Heritage for the Arcane Bloodline, Iron Will+Familiar Bond feat, or VMC-[various].
Of the options to gain a Familiar there are two worth noting:
Chosen One Paladin is a generally-solid archetype for Paladins, a few abilities are delayed-but-not-weakened (> you get Smite Evil at 2nd and Divine Grace at 4th, but both are at full power). The only outright loss is Divine Bond. But this is NOT a recommended way to get a Familiar because the granted one automatically has the Emissary-Familiar archetype which is not compatible with the Protector archetype.

Get a Tumor Familiar (either 2 levels of Alchemist, or Aberrant Bloodline+Aberrant Tumor feat). Your Tumor can optionally 'attach' itself to you, when attached it gains Fast Healing 5. Combine this with the Protector archetype and you can upgrade your "HP-Storage unit" into an "HP-Generator".
You can shift half of your incoming Life Link damage to your attached Tumor, and have it promptly heal itself for 5 points. Now THAT'S a combo!

Lastly, the Spirit's Gift feat can give your Familiar the Shaman's Spirit Animal ability of your choice, of which Fast Healing 1 is a potential bonus.

[grarrrg]

Feats:
There are LOTS of feats that can benefit an Oradin, but I'd only consider 1 of them truly mandatory, the rest are up to you.
Fey Foundling MUST HAVE if allowed. Must be taken at 1st level, no other reqs. Whenever you gain Magical Healing, you get an extra +2 HP per die rolled. You gain a small vulnerability to Cold Iron though (only +1 damage taken).
Also, a couple of these have Endurance and Die Hard are pre-reqs, these feats can be quickly gotten with a 1 level dip in Unbreakable Fighter. These feats will also be marked with a (D/E).

Channeling
Alignment/Elemental Channel, poor choices on their own, but necessary to enter the Holy Vindicator PrC.
Channeled Blessing for Warpriests only. You may grant a Blessing to One target instead of healing them normally. Handy in combat if someone hasn't taken damage yet.
Channel Smite useful if fighting Undead.
Channeled Shield Wall, must have 3d6 Channel, can spend a use of Channel as a Swift action to give yourself and adjacent allies with Shields +2 to AC for Level/minutes.
Extra Channel can Channel +2/day (most likely apply to Paladin).
Quick Channel spend 2 uses of Channel to Channel as a Move Action. Extra bonus if your DM let's you pair up Oracle and Paladin Channeling (use the weaker one to use the stronger one faster).
Reactive Healing If you would be dropped to 0 or fewer HP, you can use Channel or Lay on Hands as an Immediate Action to heal yourself (and only yourself).
Selective Channeling exclude targets from your Channel Energy. Very handy if you Channel in combat often.

Beacon of Hope, must worship Milani, those affected by Channeling gain a +2 Morale bonus to Saves, Attack rolls, Ability/Skill checks for CHA=Rounds. Milani is CG so this is not for 'typical' Oradin builds.
Bestow Hope, must worship Sarenrae, when Channeling reduce the 'fear level' of those effected by 1 step (i.e. Frightened becomes Shaken).
Channel Endurance, must worship Gozreh, 1/day grant those healed by Channeling the effects of Endure Elements for 24 hours. Gozreh is TN, so this is not for 'typical' Oradin builds.
Clarifying Channel, must worship Shelyn, Channeling beneficiaries under certain effects gain an extra save to end them.
Divine Barrier, must worship Apsu, as an Immediate action, spend a use of Channel to half/negate area effect elemental damage.
Liberation Channel, must worship Cayden Cailean, all affected by Channeling gain Freedom of Movement. Cayden Cailean is CG, so this is not for 'typical' Oradin builds.
Protective Channel, must worship Iomedae, all healed by Channeling gain Protection from Evil. No per-day limit, but you need 7d6 Channeling to qualify.
Steelskin Channel, must worship Torag, 1/day when Channeling, all affected gain DR 2/- for CHA=Minutes. Decent effect, but you need 7d6 Channeling to qualify.
Seductive Channel, must worship Calistria, once per day, those healed by your Channeling can heal an extra amount equal to your CHA, but they then take a -2 to Will Saves, but ONLY against YOUR spells/abilities for 24 hours. Calistria is CN, so this is not for 'typical' Oradin builds.


Lay on Hands
Believer's Hands gain 1/day use of Lay on Hands, using 1/2 your character level as your Paladin level (if you have Lay on Hands then it's a straight +1/day use). Possibly useful for non-Paladin/Warpriests, but requires a cruddy feat as a pre-req, and you still must be Lawful Good.
Extra Lay on Hands can Lay on Hands +2/day, in terms of total HP healed, this is strictly worse than Extra Channel. But Lay on Hands can be used as a Swift Action, and/or can use Mercies to cure status effects.
Extra Mercy gain another Mercy when using Lay on Hands.
Greater Mercy if the target of your Lay on Hands cannot benefit from any of your Mercies they gain +1d6 healing instead. Very useful on-self.
Reactive Healing See entry in Channeling.
Reward of Life whenever you use Lay on Hands to heal someone else, you gain HP equal to your CHA mod.
Ultimate Mercy spend 10 uses of Lay on Hands to cast Raise Dead.
Word of Healing spend 2 uses of Lay on Hands to use it at a distance of 30ft. It only heals 1/2 normal, but still applies full Mercies.

Other Feats
Bodyguard lets you Aid Another to boost an adjacent Ally's AC as an Attack of Opportunity when they are attacked (requires Combat Reflexes).
Divine Interference as an Immediate action you can sacrifice a spell slot to make an enemy reroll an attack with a penalty equal to the spell level. Requires Caster level 10 which won't happen for a while though.
Extra Revelation, not so useful on it's own, as most Life Mystery Revelations need a decent Oracle level to be worth it, main use is to open up Oracle-Archetypes, as many of them force you to take specific Revelations at level 1 and/or 3.
Fast Healer (D/E) the poor man's Fey Foundling. When you receive healing (rest or magical) you heal extra HP equal to half of your CON mod. The extra healing is NOT per die.
Ferocious Resolve Must be Half-Orc with Orc Ferocity trait. Gives you the full Ferocity ability. Can be useful in emergencies, should not be relied upon.
Glorious Heat, only if the "unofficial errata" is NOT used (original printing, and Inner Sea Gods work fine). Otherwise skip it. Requires Caster level 5, every time you cast a Fire spell, the ally of your choice heals HP equal to 1/2 your level. The exploit is using a Cantrip (level 0) Fire spell and healing EVERYONE to full out of combat. The unofficial errata (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/glorious-heat) fixes/prevents this. Must worship Sarenrae.
In Harm's Way (requires Bodyguard feat), when you Aid Another's AC and they would get hit anyway, you can redirect all the damage onto yourself instead as an Immediate Action.
Protector's Strike Give your Smite AC bonus to another creature, you do not get an AC bonus.
Resilient Brute Must be Half-Orc (or Orc). 1/day (eventually 2/day) you can convert half the damage from a Critical hit into Nonlethal damage. With the way Magical Healing works, this basically halves the damage, period.
Righteous Healing, Inquisitors only, Cure spells you cast while using Judgment heal an extra 1+1/3 level HP.
Shake It Off, Teamwork, gain +1 to All Saves for each adjacent Ally (good choice for Holy Tactician Paladin).
Shield Wall, Teamwork, must be using a Shield, gain bonus to AC if Ally has a Shield.
Stalwart (D/E) Can convert the AC bonus from Fighting Defensively (and other AC bonuses) into DR/-.
To the Last (D/E) when disabled you are not Staggered. Taking Standards deals 1 hp damage, taking a Full Round is 2 hp damage.
Toughness You are an HP Battery. This gives HP. 'nuff said.
Unsanctioned Knowledge add off-list spells to your Paladin Spell List.


Traits:
Campaign Traits
Finding Haleen The class you take at first level is always a Favored Class for you, and every level in that class gives you +1 HP AND +1 Skill point. This lets you Favor both Paladin and Oracle AND gives you an extra bonus to boot.
Rescued +2 bonus when casting Cure spells.
Faith Traits
Blessed Touch +1 healed when using Lay on Hands/Channeling/Cure spells
Exalted of the Society +1/day use of Channel Energy
Faithful Feedback Healing Subschool spells heal +1 HP if used on someone of the same religion. It's a weak option, Blessed Touch is almost straight up better.

Magic
Magical Knack +2 to caster level up to your HD. Since you'll likely be multi-class 2 casting classes, this may be handy.
Sun-Blessed If you would be healed over your maximum HP, you gain the extra as Temporary HP for 1 minute (limited to Character level extra per day). Potentially useful, as you don't have to worry about "wasting" healing in combat situations.

Mythic
I've not delved into Mythic much, but Rylar had some suggestions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-Or-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot&p=17330022&viewfull=1#post17330022), and so I poked around the Hierophant some:
Hierophant path
Notable abilities:
Contingent Channel Expend a use of Mythic Power and a use a Channel, and set the terms of the Contingency. The Channel will go off when the terms are met.
(various) Channel There are a variety of other potentially useful abilities that involve Channeling.
Faith's Reach All Divine Touch spells are now Ranged Touch spells (30ft.)
Mythic Domain +4 effective level for Domains/Revelations. For most Oradins this means +2d6 Oracle Channeling, and +4 Life Links.
Overflowing Grace If you heal a creature, and it puts them at max HP they get a +1 Sacred bonus Attack Rolls, Saves, Skill Checks and Ability Checks for 1 minute.
Divine Potency +4 extra 1st level spell slots, taken a 2nd time for +4 extra 2nd level spell slots (3rd for +4 3rd levels slots and so on).
Life Current When healing (Cure/Channel/Lay on Hands) treat all 1's as 2's. Can be taken multiple times to increase the minimum (2nd time treats all 1's & 2's as 3's, etc...)
Divine Vessel The capstone ability is pretty sweet. All healing affects you as though Maximized, you gain DR 10/Epic, and if you take 20 or more points of damage in a round you regain a use of Mythic Power. With enough Life Links active, taking 20 damage shouldn't be too hard.

Equipment
Standard Equipment
Ring of Regeneration give Fast Healing 1, but only to damage you take while wearing it. Life Link does deal damage to you, and a Ring of Regeneration will (slowly) heal ALL damage you have taken while wearing it.
FREE UNLIMITED ALL DAY HEALING FOR EVERYONE EVER
See Boots of the Earth for the drastically cheaper, overall better version.
See Pearly White Ioun Stone for the budget option (still worse than the Boots).

Meditation Crystals (Adventurer's Armory)
It's a Holy Symbol that basically allows you to convert Channel Energy uses into Lay on Hands uses (1-to-1). 'Charging' it takes a Standard Action (same as Channeling), but getting the Lay on Hands out takes 1 minute of meditation (taking no actions). So obviously not an "in combat" item. Recommend converting any extra Channels at the end of day into the Crystal, and then recharging your Lay on Hands throughout the next day.
They only hold 1-Charge at a time, but these things are dirt cheap (100gp) anyway, so grab a handful.

Wondrous Items
Amulet of Channeled Life (Advanced Race Guide)
Handy for Dhampirs, it allows them to gain Temporary HP instead of taking damage from Positive Energy.
(Note: The Pallid Crystal is cheaper, and gives actual healing, but ONLY regarding Cure/Inflict spells)

Boots of the Earth Spend a Move Action to gain Fast Healing 1 until you move. 5000gp. You can easily keep everyone ever topped off with these.
Let me rephrase that in giant letters:
FREE UNLIMITED ALL DAY HEALING FOR EVERYONE EVER
If these aren't allowed, you next best options are a Pearly White Ioun Stone, or a Ring of Regeneration.

Bracelet of Mercy (APG or Ult. Equipment)
Would be worth getting if it wasn't for the Bracers of the Merciful Knight. You get +1/day use of Lay on Hands, and gain the Remove Disease Mercy. If you have the Remove Disease Mercy, then you count as Caster level +4 for Removing Diseases.

Bracers of the Merciful Knight (Ultimate Equipment)
Count as +4 levels for the purposes of Lay on Hands. Gain 1/day "Lesser Restoration Mercy". SWEET!

Crystal of Healing Hands (Ultimate Equipment)
Skip it. Any Paladin can spend a Lay on Hands to 'store it in the Crystal', then the holder of the Crystal can spend a Standard action to use the healing (and mercies) that were stored. This would only be useful in extreme emergencies, or if you aren't doing your job.

Headband of Alluring Charisma (Core)
+CHA, nuff said. GET THIS.

Insignia of Valor
Whenever you kill (drop to 0, etc...) an opponent with a Smite attack, you may use Channel Energy as a Swift Action.

Ornament of Healing Light
Effectively a Free Action to enable Lay on Hands up to 15ft. away.

Pallid Chrystal
Cure/Inflict spells always heal you. Does nothing with other forms of Positive/Negative energy.

Pearly White Spindle Ioun Stone is the 'budget' version of the Ring of Regeneration. 'Normal' heals 1 HP per 10 minutes, Flawed is 4 HP per hour, Cracked is 1 HP per hour.
Or at least this WOULD be the budget version, if Boots of the Earth didn't exist. In the case that Boots of the Earth aren't allowed (or are nerfed), Cracked is much too slow, only giving 24 HP per day, and the pricing on Flawed is close enough to a 'normal' that you may as well just pitch in the extra gold for one of those instead. Ring of Regeneration is 100 times more effective than the 'normal' at only 4.5 times the price.

Phylactery of Positive Channeling (Ultimate Equipment)
Your Channel Positive Energy ability heals/hurts an extra +2d6 dice. Most Oradin's will have 2 Channeling pools. Quite nice.

Phylactery of the Shepard (Ultimate Equipment)
Can cast Status spell 3/day, allows you to use Lay on Hands or Channeling as a Swift action to heal anyone you currently have Status cast on (ends the Status effect).

Symbol of Luck (Advanced Race Guide)
Halfling only, Channeling to heal grants those affected a +1 Luck bonus to all Saves for a number of rounds equal to your Channel Dice. Granted, it's a fairly small bonus, but it doesn't really take up any item slots, so it can be worth getting if you're a Halfling.

Wayfinder (Pathfinder Chronicles, Seekers of Secrets)
They require Ioun Stones to function. Possible bonuses: +1/day Lay on Hands, +1/day Channel, +2HP per die on Cure spells cast on you.

Artifacts
Bloodstones of Arazni (Artifacts and Legends)
The Heart Bloodstone grant the holder Lay on Hands ability equal to a Paladin of their level. If the bearer is also a Cleric, they are treated as having the Protection Domain in addition to their normal Domains (Cleric only, sorry Inquisitors). Unsure how this ability stacks if you have Paladin levels. Do you get a 2nd Lay on Hands pool? or do you just add your Non-Paladin levels to determine use/effect? If the first, AWESOME. If the 2nd, not as useful. But can still be worth seeking out if available.

Inheritor's Light
+1 Longsword, any 'Cure' spell, or Lay on Hands healing you receive heals +1hp per die (capped at the maximum you could roll, so if you roll mostly 6's you won't benefit much). 1/day use of Inheritor's Smite.

Raven's Head (Artifacts and Legends)
It's a +3 Undead Bane Heavy Mace, grants the Channel Smite feat if you Channel Positive Energy. In an Undead Heavy campaign this could be quite useful. On the other hand, in an Undead Heavy campaign you may just want to take the feat. on the other other hand, if you are a Cleric of Pharasma, you are treated as +4 levels for Channel Energy when using Channel Smite.
Not that great for most Oradins.

[Blyte]

another downside to shield other is the short range tether you must operate on, 25ft + 5ft/2 levels, or the spell ends. it's very easy for inexperienced players to break that link.

shield other is still a decent option, and stronger in a few ways, as you mentioned, and also has a +1ac and saves bonus built in. it's definitely an option I would use when it comes on line for any oradin I would run, if we have any wizard or low hp aggressive striker.

edit.

... downside to life link is that it doesn't scale, fast healing 5 is huge for a while, but then rapidly becomes increasingly insignificant around level 9+.. I think they should have built in a boon for the pure oracles and made it fast healing 1/lvl.

but as is, life link is perfect for dipping.

shield other scales perfectly with monster damage output, on the other hand. I think it's going to be key that an oradin employs shield other in the upper levels. perhaps magical lineage (shield other) for a trait so you can extend them? and a lvl 4 oracle dip can get 8 hours on a cast?

[grarrrg]

another downside to shield other is the short range tether you must operate on, 25ft + 5ft/2 levels, or the spell ends. it's very easy for inexperienced players to break that link.
...
shield other scales perfectly with monster damage output, on the other hand. I think it's going to be key that an oradin employs shield other in the upper levels. perhaps magical lineage (shield other) for a trait so you can extend them? and a lvl 4 oracle dip can get 8 hours on a cast?

Life Link also has a maximum range. But given that it has unlimited uses it is easier to reestablish.

And yes, Shield Other is quite nice, but they both have their optimal uses.
Shield Other works best on the Squishy Wizard. But the Invulnerable Rager Barbarian should be just fine with Life Link.
The main advantage, above all, is that Life Link has 'unlimited' uses, whereas even the most pimped out caster only has a handful of 2nd level spell slots.

[Aemoh87]

I am so excited for this, one of my favorite builds, thanks Gararrg.

[ericgrau]

I like this build for the ability to heal on the side without disrupting your ability to fight. It seems perfect for that. Life link is also much more convenient than shield other for getting a large number of targets with unlimited range. It's not a lot of hp transferred, but it is enough to match your healing amount. Most importantly it's not very build intensive.; any paladin can dip on the side.

In terms of raw healing ability it falls short. I looked into a paladin dip on my last build but I found that the lay on hands amount was less than the increase to channel energy. So for a non-action (doing only what I would do anyway) I get more than I'd get from the swift. Likewise shield other transfers far more life than life link. Life link was very low priority on that build, falling behind healing harder so I could shield more targets. Since that build is mostly oracle, spell slots aren't an issue. For the range problem you grab reach spell and select the talent that gives free metamagic to one specific spell (selecting shield other). Bam, 140+ foot range at level 4.

So, nice battle healer. It's a great way to bring in healing when nobody wants to be the healer, and killing to prevent enemy damage is also helpful of course.

[grarrrg]

I am so excited for this, one of my favorite builds, thanks Gararrg.

Who? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningGag)


I like this build for the ability to heal on the side without disrupting your ability to fight. It seems perfect for that. Life link is also much more convenient than shield other for getting a large number of targets with unlimited range. It's not a lot of hp transferred, but it is enough to match your healing amount. Most importantly it's not very build intensive.; any paladin can dip on the side.

In terms of raw healing ability it falls short. I looked into a paladin dip on my last build but I found that the lay on hands amount was less than the increase to channel energy. So for a non-action (doing only what I would do anyway) I get more than I'd get from the swift. Likewise shield other transfers far more life than life link. Life link was very low priority on that build, falling behind healing harder so I could shield more targets. Since that build is mostly oracle, spell slots aren't an issue. For the range problem you grab reach spell and select the talent that gives free metamagic to one specific spell (selecting shield other). Bam, 140+ foot range at level 4.

So, nice battle healer. It's a great way to bring in healing when nobody wants to be the healer, and killing to prevent enemy damage is also helpful of course.

This is a very nice summary. I may have to do some minor edits and put in the guide proper.
Permission? Please?

[navar100]

I'll be playing a single class Life Mystery Oracle healbot, and he's no pushover. I purposely want to do some buff others, but he can handle himself quite well in combat.

Caveat: We did use rolling for character creation. We're starting at 6th level.

16 Strength + morningstar +1 two-handed + Power Attack = 1d8 + 11 damage. Add in Furious Focus feat for no minus to hit. Sprinkle Divine Favor or Bull Strength as desired.

Energy Body Revelation - can heal myself as a move action and still Do Something - attack with morningstar, cast a spell.

In combat healing is not useless. It's not always the best option but neither is it always a terrible option. The one doing the healing doesn't have to be the one to get the killing blow all the time, every time. It's important enough to keep another party member up to do what he does best and save the day. It doesn't matter if the bad guy's damage is more than what I heal. What's important is if what I heal plus the party member's current hit points is more than what the bad guy's damage is.

Channel Energy revelation - 3d6 healing to all party members is an efficient use of healing. Add in Selective Channeling feat so I don't heal the bad guys.

For defense: breastplate with light fortification, admitted able to purchase outright using wealth by level table. Not necessarily a common option for those who start at 1st level. Cast Shield Of Faith if need be. In desperation or choice there's Sanctuary and Obscuring Mist.

Attack spells: Command, Hold Person, Dispel Magic.

If I used Battle Mystery certainly I'd be more effective in combat: great sword, heavy armor, act in surprise round, etc., but I purposely wanted to be a healbot. However, being a healbot does not mean you're a pathetic weakling who can't do anything else. An oracle is just a cleric who casts his spells spontaneously, and everyone knows what a cleric can do.

That said, there's nothing wrong with an "oradin". It can be quite effective as well. Enjoy.

[ericgrau]

This is a very nice summary. I may have to do some minor edits and put in the guide proper.
Permission? Please?
Of course. Go for it.

[Akal Saris]

Another way to conserve standard actions in combat is to use the Quick Channel feat to channel energy as a move action. By character level 7 an oracle 3/hospitaler 4 would probably have about 18 channel energy uses to burn a day, after all.

I would consider the following feats as well:
Fey founding - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fey-foundling
Fire god's blessing (might not mix with oracle religion requirements) - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fire-god-s-blessing

I'm not quite convinced that the lay on hands amount from paladin will scale adequately for most adventures. Does anyone have personal experience playing the build as suggested?

[Tokuhara]

I want to say that, like any divine caster, Aasimar is a good choice.

Specifically, I direct you to the Agathian-Blooded (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-aasimar#TOC-Agathion-Blooded-Idyllkin-), who gets a +2 Charisma & Constitution Score. According to you Grrarrg, Con and Charisma are your primary stats, and this racial choice has both as bonuses. The fluff doesn't make sense, but look at it like this: that has never stopped Optimizers before...

[Wise Green Bean]

The Oracle Curse of lame is really good for this build. If you stick around in paladin through level 5, the mount almost entirely negates the negative effects. And you can sleep in your armor because you're immune to fatigue. Hell, if you're in medium or heavy armor, you wind up going the same speed by level 10 anyway, even without the mount, as you lose the speed penalties for encumbrance and armor.

[navar100]

Human oracles can choose an extra spell known per level instead of a hit point or skill point as a favored class bonus, provided the DM is willing to allow that option.

My DM is. :smallbiggrin:

[ericgrau]

Another way to conserve standard actions in combat is to use the Quick Channel feat to channel energy as a move action. By character level 7 an oracle 3/hospitaler 4 would probably have about 18 channel energy uses to burn a day, after all.

I would consider the following feats as well:
Fey founding - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fey-foundling
Fire god's blessing (might not mix with oracle religion requirements) - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fire-god-s-blessing

I'm not quite convinced that the lay on hands amount from paladin will scale adequately for most adventures. Does anyone have personal experience playing the build as suggested?
I'm more worried about the life linking effectively giving fast heal 5 to the party. That may not scale very well. But channel energy could make up the difference, and quick channel could make up the difference and still allow a battle build to do other things.

Though wow quick channel + regular channel would be pretty amazing for a focused healer too. My existing move action healing option was energy body but I think quick channel is a big upgrade. OTOH energy body lets you actually move and heal in the same move action. A build might take both and switch depending on tactical needs.

[grarrrg]

Human oracles can choose an extra spell known per level instead of a hit point or skill point as a favored class bonus, provided the DM is willing to allow that option.

My DM is. :smallbiggrin:

It is normally a nice option. But a few problems with that.
Oracle is only needed for around 4-ish levels, so that isn't a lot of spells known.
The spell must be 1 level lower than your highest possible spell, so a 4th level Oracle would have 3 extra cantrips, and 1 extra 1st level. Not really worth it.


The Oracle Curse of lame is really good for this build. If you stick around in paladin through level 5, the mount almost entirely negates the negative effects. And you can sleep in your armor because you're immune to fatigue. Hell, if you're in medium or heavy armor, you wind up going the same speed by level 10 anyway, even without the mount, as you lose the speed penalties for encumbrance and armor.

Remember, Non-Oracle levels only count as 1/2 for Curse bonuses.
Don't worry, There will be a "Which Curse is right for you" section.


...According to you Grrarrg, Con and Charisma are your primary stats...

Who? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningGag) :smallconfused:

[Tokuhara]

Who? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningGag) :smallconfused:

I'm sorry. Your name is a sodding nightmare to spell. It defies the freaking English language!

[grarrrg]

I'm sorry. Your name is a sodding nightmare to spell. It defies the freaking English language!

It's easy to spell.
First a g, then two r's, then an a, then five more z's, finally a g.

As for the "freaking English language", there's a good reason for that:

It's a made up word/name.

If you Google it you'll get one of two types of results.
A: stuff regarding me.
B: angry people.

Oddly enough, me using it as a name has nothing to do with anger.

[Tokuhara]

It's easy to spell.
First a g, then two r's, then an a, then five more z's, finally a g.

As for the "freaking English language", there's a good reason for that:

It's a made up word/name.

If you Google it you'll get one of two types of results.
A: stuff regarding me.
B: angry people.

Oddly enough, me using it as a name has nothing to do with anger.

Sorry. The English nerd in me tends to go ape when someone misspells something. Bugger all, it makes me angry

[Larpus]

I said it before and I repeat it now, grrrarg: this is the most incredible heal-based build I've ever seen and the first one ever I actually consider giving a try at some point, or suggest to a friend who tends to really like healing (go figure...) so major kudos there.

EDIT: Spelled grrrarg's name wrongly (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging).

[ericgrau]

It is normally a nice option. But a few problems with that.
Oracle is only needed for around 4-ish levels, so that isn't a lot of spells known.
The spell must be 1 level lower than your highest possible spell, so a 4th level Oracle would have 3 extra cantrips, and 1 extra 1st level. Not really worth it.

Even in general not getting an extra spell of your highest level is pretty mediocre. What you get are lots and lots of spells that don't matter very much. It's a little helpful for buffs and backup spells but I hope everyone out there isn't automatically selecting human for their sorcerers and oracles. Other races get nice perks too.

[grarrrg]

Added Feat section.
Did some editing throughout to improve readability.
Also, I managed to spell readability correctly on the first try.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Something I was wondering about this. What would be a good level-by-level guide to a build like this? I really REALLY like this build, but I'm not sure how best to fit the character I have in mind into this build.

[grarrrg]

Something I was wondering about this. What would be a good level-by-level guide to a build like this? I really REALLY like this build, but I'm not sure how best to fit the character I have in mind into this build.

Well, sticking to either class for the 'minimum' levels then switching would work best.
Starting with Paladin for 2-to-4 levels gets you Lay on Hands, Divine Grace, Heavy Armor and Martial Profs. So you could play your early career as a normal Beatstick.
Starting with Oracle for 3-ish levels gets you Channeling sooner and quicker access to spells. You'd play your early career as a, well, you'd make a good Healbot...

Which you start with depends on your play style, and party size, and party needs, and...

As for Feats and such, first you have to determine just what feats you want, and how much "healing" vs. "other" feats you like and...

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Even in general not getting an extra spell of your highest level is pretty mediocre. What you get are lots and lots of spells that don't matter very much. It's a little helpful for buffs and backup spells but I hope everyone out there isn't automatically selecting human for their sorcerers and oracles. Other races get nice perks too.IME casters get (and need to get) a lot of mileage out of lower level slots. 8th level Sorcerers still want to cast Haste/Slow/Stinking Cloud and more, after all. There's also a lot of great utility spells at low levels... although paragon surge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/paragon-surge) makes that irrelevant.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, sticking to either class for the 'minimum' levels then switching would work best.
Starting with Paladin for 2-to-4 levels gets you Lay on Hands, Divine Grace, Heavy Armor and Martial Profs. So you could play your early career as a normal Beatstick.
Starting with Oracle for 3-ish levels gets you Channeling sooner and quicker access to spells. You'd play your early career as a, well, you'd make a good Healbot...

Which you start with depends on your play style, and party size, and party needs, and...

As for Feats and such, first you have to determine just what feats you want, and how much "healing" vs. "other" feats you like and...
I was thinking an Oracle 6/Paladin 4/Divine Scion of Ragathiel 10?

[grarrrg]

I was thinking an Oracle 6/Paladin 4/Divine Scion of Ragathiel 10?

If you think the game will go to level 20, then you may want to do the bare minimum 2 Levels of Paladin, this way you'll still get 9th level spells. If that's the case, then it doesn't much matter which archetype (if any) you choose, as most aren't really noticeable until level 4 and up.

But, assuming you want 4 of Paladin, then you may as well go Warrior of the Holy Light. You lose Paladin spells, but gain an extra use of Lay on Hands, and can spend a use of Lay on Hands to give the group a +1 to AC/To-Hit/Damage for 1 minute.
You can then add either the Hospitaler Archetype, or the Holy Tactician (but not both).
Hospitaler will trade your 2nd use of Smite Evil for a separate Channeling Pool (edit: unlike normal Paladin channeling, your effective level is -3).
Holy Tactician is a bit more involved, giving a weaker 'group' Smite evil, and trading your Divine Health and Aura of Courage for the ability to share the Teamwork feat of your choice with the entire group.


As for Oracle and Divine Scion, only take 3 levels, or as many Oracle levels as you need for Life Links, before entering the PrC, as it has Full Casting, and you wouldn't get another Revelation until level 7 anyway. (exception being Dual Cursed Oracle who gets a Revelation at 5th)

Start with either Oracle or Paladin, you seem more casting focuses, so lets just say Oracle for the moment:
Oracle 3/Paladin 4/Divine Scion 10/Oracle +3


As for the Divine Scion Specialized Domain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/divine-scion), there are a few things to consider:
Your Domain-Spec bonus.

Destruction: Break 3/day, +4 on Intimidate
Good: Constant Detect Evil, +2 Will Save
Law: Constant Detect Chaos, +2 Will Save
Nobility: Command 1/day, +4 on Diplomacy
All of your Classes have Good Will Saves already, you need Iron Will to enter the PrC, and Divine Grace adds your CHA to your Saves anyway, so shy away from Good and Law (and Paladin's also have Detect Evil, another mark against Good).
On the other hand, even though you are CHA based, your Skills will likely be limited (especially since Divine Scion needs a total of 15 skills to enter), so you may not get any use out of Intimidate or Diplomacy either.
Regardless, SKIP GOOD, it just has too much overlap.

Another thing to consider is that every time you cast a spell from your Domain, you heal twice its level in HP. So try to pick the list that you'll get the most use from.
I'm not going to go in depth on Domain spells, as Ragathiel has 4 Domains, and 4 Sub-Domains.


As far as Feats go, Iron Will and Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) are a must due to PrC Pre-reqs. The rest of the feats mainly depend on your preferred play style, and how much dedicated Healing you need to do.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

And say I want to ditch Divine Scion in favor of Holy Vindicator? I'm honestly debating the two...:smallredface:

[grarrrg]

And say I want to ditch Divine Scion in favor of Holy Vindicator? I'm honestly debating the two...:smallredface:

Well, Holy Vindicator is easier to qualify for, mainly due to Skill Reqs. It only needs 5 spent, where Scion needs 15.
Feat-wise it is 'technically' cheaper. But the 1 Feat for Vindicator will likely be fairly worthless, whereas you'll get plenty of use out of the 2 required for Scion.

Vindicator has better Bab/HD, but worse casting.
Scion has better casting, but worse Bab/HD.

Of the two, only Vindicator stacks for Channeling power though.


Basically, it comes down to Holy Vindicator being the Paladin to Divine Scions Oracle.
If you want more Face-Smashy, go Vindicator.
If you prefer Spells, go Divine Scion.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Vindicator then, I want the face smashy. :smallsmile:

[b0rab0ra]

Hospitaler will trade your 2nd use of Smite Evil for a separate Channeling Pool (note, despite not getting it until level 4, it still uses FULL Paladin level, so it would give 2d6 healing).


Can I check this, isn't it paladin level -3 for effective cleric level? I don't want to screw myself out of 1d6.

[grarrrg]

Can I check this, isn't it paladin level -3 for effective cleric level? I don't want to screw myself out of 1d6.

Whoops! Good catch.
The Default Paladin Channel Energy is Paladin=Cleric.
But the Hospitaler DOES get a -3 penalty.

TO THE EDITS!

[Almaseti]

Aasimars have a variant ability (though you're supposed to roll dice to pick one, so unless your dm lets you or you get lucky, you can't actually guarantee getting it) that lets you cast Shield Other 1/day as an SLA.

[Zubrowka74]

Any thoughts on channeling variants ? Both Palladins and Oracle have them.

[Arcnsparc]

Question: I Built a 4 Oracle, 6 Paladin, and I love this build so much. I have a phylactery of positive healing and it is really paying off. If I were to take a one level dip in cleric, would I pick up another 3+CHA Mod channel energies per day, or would a cleric level stack with the Hospitalier's "channel energy as a cleric of 3 levels lower."

I would REALLY like to have three channeling pools!

3+CHA from Hospitalier (Currently 4d6, will advance)
1+CHA from Life Mystery (Currently 4d6 will not advance)
3+CHA from Cleric (Would be 3d6, would not advance)


Further more, if each of these channel pools could be affect by the one Phylactery of Positive Healing, I would really be in business!

If I can have three channeling pools and the Phylactery effects them all, are there any other classes that I could pick up even more pools from? Otherwise I am going to keep advancing Paladin (hospitalier) for the Channels, Lay on Hands, and spells.

This is for a party that needs a healer, so I want to provide in style. Any advice is appreciated!

EDIT: According to this FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9o80) taking a dip into cleric would get me another 3+CHA channels of positive energy/day. This will be at 1d6 but with the Phylactery of Positive Channeling it will be 3d6. For the one level dip I am getting about 25d6 more healing in. Now to pick a domain... I just wish there were more ways to add healing per die...

[grarrrg]

Question: I Built a 4 Oracle, 6 Paladin, and I love this build so much...If I were to take a one level dip in cleric, would I pick up another 3+CHA Mod channel energies per day, or would a cleric level stack with the Hospitalier's...
EDIT: According to this FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9o80) taking a dip into cleric would get me another 3+CHA channels of positive energy/day.

The FAQ is correct, Channeling Pools do NOT stack unless they explicitly say they do, like the Holy Vindicator PrC.

As for Domains, you'll want ones with decent bonuses up front:
[copy/paste from Class Dipping Guide, ]
Protection: +1 all Saves
Travel: +10ft. movement

Inquisitions: (can be taken by any class with compatible Deity)
Oblivion: 10ft. Aura, you/ally add your Wis to Stabilization checks
Persistence: Step Up feat
Spellkiller: Disruptive feat

[Arcnsparc]

I am going to pick up a one level dip in Cleric, which will leave me with one more level to work with as the 15th level of paladin isn't worth much. SO instead Ill dip in something else.

Would a Synthesist summoner be a good choice? I could potentially get a whole lot more hit points out of my hit point battery it seems. Id have to take Biped, and then I am not sure for the 3 evo points. I'd lose the high AC of the Paladin armor, but if the character gets spanked the eidolon will vanish and Ill be back to normal. Plus the CHA base spells would be nice, I could grab some utility spells (enlarge person looks nice on that list).

Thoughts on a one level Synthesist dip please!

EDIT: The Fused Eidolon would give my Oradin Temporary Hit Points. At best this could provide 5.5(HD)+3(con) = 8 HP and Temporary HP at that. Because the Tiefling Oradin has some nice elemental resists (5 fire, cold, elec) a dip in Summoner (Synthesis) could be a nice way to grab that Sonic & Cold resist.

To make a Fused Eidolon work I would need a way to make the Temporary HP be used last, or stack a LOT of Temporary HP above the Eidolon's(maybe shield other?). EDIT: Nevermind, Fused Link fixes this! The biggest issue I suppose is the loss of that Paladin Full-Plate though (Using Nature's Whisper with Full-Plate to really bump up AC). Any Ideas?


EDIT 2: A 2 level dip in Synthesis Summoner could grab me some nice abilities and methods of battlefield control. Evasion would be nice for mitigating damage as my Oradin has GREAT saves. With 4 evolution points I could grab Reach and Push (it doesn't say it has to be on a natural attack). The remaining 2 evolution points could be for limbs, allowing me to hold a shield, two hand my weapon, and keep a free hand open for what ever is needed. The Darkvision and +2 natural armor are just gravy at this point. A question arises that because "While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor" would I also lose any penalties, namely Arcane Spell Failure.

[8wGremlin]

if DM allowed would combining Pathfinder Oracle; with Life Mastery, taking life link, channel and turn undead feats and the 3.5 SRD prestige paladin be good?

If you can would this be good?

Oracle to 4
+1 BAB class
Prestige Paladin


Edit: Cross posted here for added visibility and hopefully more comments?

[Arcnsparc]

I started out wanting to build a NPC to back up the players in my game. The party is quite squishy so I wanted to make a tank that could heal, the Oradin was a dream come true. The party is all level 10, so I felt this NPC should be that level too. This thread made me obsess a little with this build, so I present the results:

Aasimar 2 Paladin(hospitaler), 2 Summoner (synthesist), 5 Oracle (dual cursed), and 1 Cleric.

Stats: 10, 10, 11, 12, 16(14+2 race), 22(18 + 2 race +2 levels)
Stats with Eidolon: 17, 11, 13, 12, 16, 22

1 - Paladin; Normal play but with semi poor stats
2 - Paladin; Divine Grace & Lay on Hands
3 - Summoner; Get the good physical stats with the Eidolon for the Evolutions I grab Reach (my weapon, RAW), Limbs(arms)
4 - Summoner; Resist Fire, Evasion
5 - Oracle; Lame(primary), Tongues(secondary), Life Link
6 - Oracle;
7 - Oracle; Channel Energy
8 - Oracle;
9 - Oracle; Nature's Whisper (CHA to AC)
10 - Cleric; Another 3+CHA channels, Travel domain (+10 move), Protection domain (+1 on saves)


So if I were naked with no items I'd be at:

BAB 8/3
Saves 15 / 11 / 23 (high Will needed to prevent losing Eidolon by banishment or dismissal) (save bonuses from Protection domain, Divine Grace)
AC +8 (+6 CHA, +2 Synth)
Resist 5 against Fire, Cold, Acid, & Electric
Move: 25 -10(lame) -5(Armor), +10 (travel Domain)
HP 52 + 10(CON) + 10 (Toughness) +12 (Temp, Eidolon) = 72 +12 Temp; Could be a lot higher by taking 3 more levels in Summoner to get con up to 16 and or using magic equipment.


Feats: Fey Founding (Oradin build), Selective Channel, Quicken Spell(for all of those bonus slots in the casting classes, or other metamagic), Toughness, Antagonize (no power attack for a support character!)

Skills: Many to choose from, I like Intimidate with Antagonize to draw fire away from squishy casters.

Equipment: Focus on CHA & CON as these are stacked on many other abilities. With 4 arms this character can two-hand a sword, carry a shield, and keep a hand free. Wears Full-Plate then summon Eidolon, lose the armor bonus and if the Eidolon dies, your AC will jumps by 10. Definitely get the Phylactery of Positive healing to really get those channels going. Use item creation to get odd version of physical gear to round out the Eidolon stats (A belt of +1 Str/Dex/Con would only cost 4k according to IC rules).

Abilities:

Channel (oracle) 7/day 3d6
Channel (cleric) 9/day 1d6
Lay on Hands 7/day 1d6
Summon Monster I 9/day (2 minute duration, Eidolon must be down)
Life Link & Shield Other (spell) to keep people alive
Various goodies like Detect Evil, Darkvision,


In combat the character will use Reach to threaten a larger area, Heal the party like crazy,

From here I plan to advance Paladin(Hospitaler) the rest of the way to 20 bringing the total to 12 paladin levels, but depending on play style a person could advance as either Oracle or Summoner from here. I'll be short the 4th level Paladin spells, but I should make up for it elsewhere. Picking spells will be a headache but should offer a LOT of flexibility.

Thanks to grarrrg for the awesome build and guide!

[grarrrg]

Aasimar 2 Paladin(hospitaler), 2 Summoner (synthesist), 5 Oracle (dual cursed), and 1 Cleric.

3 - Summoner; Get the good physical stats with the Eidolon for the Evolutions I grab Reach (my weapon, RAW), Limbs(arms)
...
5 - Oracle; Lame(primary), Tongues(secondary), Life Link
...
9 - Oracle; Nature's Whisper (CHA to AC)
[/LIST]
...
With 4 arms this character can two-hand a sword, carry a shield, and keep a hand free.

I don't know that a 2 level dip in Summoner would be all that great, about all it let's you do is fudge your Stats a little bit, which I'm not sure would be worth it what with the massive loss of AC and all...
Also, Oracle's can only ever take _one_ Mystery, so you can't grab Nature's Whispers. The Dual-Cursed Archetype only gets you a 2nd Curse and a couple extra Revelations.


If you can would this be good?

Oracle to 4
+1 BAB class
Prestige Paladin


Looks decent to me.
For the +1 Bab class, I'd probably go with Cavalier, you'd get +1 to your Mount's level, and with the Emissary or Gendarme archetypes you could snag the Mounted Combat feat for free.
You'd obviously have to tweak how the PrC-Paladin's Turn Undead/Channeling would scale, but that's fairly minor.

[Arcnsparc]

Also, Oracle's can only ever take _one_ Mystery, so you can't grab Nature's Whispers. The Dual-Cursed Archetype only gets you a 2nd Curse and a couple extra Revelations.

For some reason I was under the impression that the level 5 revelation of a dual cursed oracle could be from ANY mystery. I will have to figure out why I thought that or where I read it!

EDIT:

"At 1st level, 3rd level, and every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and so on), an oracle uncovers a new secret about her mystery that grants her powers and abilities. The oracle must select a revelation from the list of revelations available to her mystery"

"A dual-cursed oracle gains a new revelation at 5th level and 13th level. These are in addition to the normal revelations she receives at 3rd level, 7th level, and so on."

And from the Channeling the Cosmos: A Guide to the Oracle:
"You gain two additional revelations over the course of your oracle levels with no restrictions."

I suppose I misinterpreted this to mean a revelation from ANY mystery. Ill have to find another way to get that CHA to AC.

[8wGremlin]

Oddness abound:

Could you use Sword of the Arcane Order with a Prestige Paladin?

If you could get track and wild empathy, plus the cavelier's mount, could you use the feat devoted tracker and what would it do?

[8wGremlin]

(24 hours later)

Anyway to combine this with a Dirk Trowser-fang build?

Great Fortitude, Poison Healer, Endurance, Steadfast Determination + Beer (a poison) or tiny vipers down the pants

Every save you make vs poison you gain CON mod hp back

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Oracle?

[HylianKnight]

Loving this build. A question about the Holy Vindicator prestige class though, I noticed the wording for Channel Energy is bit ambiguous.


The vindicator’s class level stacks with levels in any other class that grants the channel energy ability.

Emphasis added. I think it's weird they said that as opposed to the standard wording for PrC class stacking abilities, like:


A vindicator gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class.

I know when I first read it I took it to mean it increases any (as in all) instances of Channel Energy. Any official clarification on this?



Also, regardless you should add the Warrior of Holy Light archetype to the Holy Vindicator PrC option. You can take it with the Hospitaler, and if you're only planning on taking 4 levels of Paladin it makes much more sense to replace your one 1st level spell with an extra use of Lay on Hands and a new buff ability to use them on.

[DrDeth]

Fey Foundling is a great feat, but some campaigns won't allow it. There is also the Sandpoint Faithful Trait, which gives one extra HP of healing.

[Zubrowka74]

Don't forget Noble Scion (of War) for CHA to Init.

[grarrrg]

Loving this build. A question about the Holy Vindicator prestige class though, I noticed the wording for Channel Energy is bit ambiguous.


The vindicator’s class level stacks with levels in any other class that grants the channel energy ability.

Emphasis added. I think it's weird they said that as opposed to the standard wording for PrC class stacking abilities

Because, strictly speaking, you don't "need" to be a divine caster to get Channel Energy (there are a couple ways :smalltongue: ).

"Any" means "one". If they intended it to be every class, it would probably say "every other class" instead.

Although, like "+1 level spellcasting" you could probably split the levels amongst multiple classes, i.e. Taking 4 levels of Oracle gets you 2d6 Channel, throw 1 level of Vindicator at Oracle to bump it up to 3d6, and then throw the rest at Paladin.


Also, regardless you should add the Warrior of Holy Light archetype to the Holy Vindicator PrC option.

The Warrior of Holy Light is already mentioned in the Archetype section.
Stacking of Archetypes/PrC's is up to the player.



Fey Foundling is a great feat, but some campaigns won't allow it. There is also the Sandpoint Faithful Trait, which gives one extra HP of healing.

Hmm...never went through the Traits to look for stuff....
TO THE EDITS!


Don't forget Noble Scion (of War) for CHA to Init.

Not forgotten. Just not included.
While it is a good feat, it doesn't help the "healing" angle any (which is the focus of the build/guide), and due to needing to take the Life Mystery, you are unable to 'fully' dump DEX anyway, limiting the usefulness some.

[Zubrowka74]

A pity you cannot double mysteries like you can with curses.

[grarrrg]

A pity you cannot double mysteries like you can with curses.

Agreed.
Then again, double Mysteries might be TOO good, to the point where _if_ they made an archetype for that, they'd probably saddle them with LOTS of downsides, so as to be worthless.

[Zubrowka74]

Well, they DID make a cross-blooded sorcerer ;)

Agreed, it gimps the spellcasting BUT for a dip it doesn't matter. I guess they are being wise in curbing the cheese.

Anyhow, what happens to a cleric who switch faith ? Is the the whole set of perks is switched as well or only the future ones ?

[Novawurmson]

With permission, I'll add this to my "guide to the guides." This is a great build - sort of a Vitalist for groups that don't allow third party material (or don't like psionics, or want more of a religious feel, or...)

[grarrrg]

With permission, I'll add this to my "guide to the guides." This is a great build - sort of a Vitalist for groups that don't allow third party material (or don't like psionics, or want more of a religious feel, or...)

Go nuts dude.
This thread mainly exists because I kept on having to link to the last time I had posted about doing an Oradin build.
This way it's all in one handy little place.

[charcoalninja]

Not sure if this has been noted or not, but it looks like it's been overlooked in your opening post, but Holy Vindicator is even better for this build because it progresses BOTH channel pools.

The relevant text from Holy Vindicator:

Channel Energy(su):
The vindicator’s class level stacks with levels in any other class that grants the channel energy ability.

stacks with any other class that grants the channel energy. It doesn't say you choose one. If the class grants channel energy, it stacks, so both Oracle channel and Paladin Channel are buffed (lay on hands still isn't though).

[grarrrg]

Channel Energy(su):
The vindicator’s class level stacks with levels in any other class that grants the channel energy ability.

Stacks with _any_ other class.
NOT Stacks with _every_ other class.

If you can get you DM to agree on "every", then go nuts.

[Occasional Sage]

How do you justify a paladin becoming a member of the Hellknights? Mechanically it's a strong choice, but the HK clash sharply with the paladin's code regarding associates.

[charcoalninja]

Stacks with _any_ other class.
NOT Stacks with _every_ other class.

If you can get you DM to agree on "every", then go nuts.

In all other cases in the game where you must choose a class to benefit the text explicitly lays out that requirement. See prestige classes "Choose a spellcasting class, levels of X stack..."

Also note it says any, not "any one". As it does not say it stacks with a single class, any by virtue of english, means all.

Edit: see spontaneous casting for an example of any meaning all. All spontaneous casters in their casting text say they"can cast any spell she knows at any time." Since the text did not specify "any one" it means they can cast all of the spells spontaneously whenever they want and do not have to choose one. I'll find some more examples that are more related to class feature granting but that's the general use of any I'm using.

Edit 2: Spell effects are another great example. Whenever the text reads "any" it means basically "whenever this condition is met". Any creatures in the area blah blah, any creatures touching, blah blah. This use of any is consistant with my channel energy interpretation. Any levels of channel energy means if you have classes that have channel energy, they stack with Holy Vindicator.

Edit 3: Bonus feats require you to meet "any" prerequisites and so you must meet them all. "The character must still meet any prerequisites for these bonus feats." Demonstrating that the game's use of any refers to all.

Edit 4: Caster level stacking: "He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting." Any being used with a class feature to mean all.

I feel that's enough rules referencing to make my case. Holy Vindicator's whole schtick is progressing your channeling, and since it says it stacks with any levels, it means all occurances your character happens to have.

[Novawurmson]

How do you justify a paladin becoming a member of the Hellknights? Mechanically it's a strong choice, but the HK clash sharply with the paladin's code regarding associates.

I had an NPC who was a Paladin/Hellknight. The Hellknight order is heavily about discipline and protecting the civilized world (it's how they go about that mission that can get them a bad rap). The "We are the last, pure defenders of a world overrun by chaos and misery" can sound very attractive to a Paladin. Remember Hellknights can explicitly be any lawful, so by RAW, there can be (and probably are) LG Hellknights.

True, some of their comrades summon demons, but this is often to kill them as training (there's also the Malconvoker logic - we'll bind them and force them to good here instead of letting them roam free committing evil elsewhere).

[grarrrg]

(garbage)

Chill.
Out.

I am sticking to the MOST LIKELY interpretation here.
If you want to have the above argument with your GM (as I mentioned last post) then go ahead, see if he will allow it.
Most likely they will not.

I am not making this guide to be a "here's an awesome loophole you can abuse the heck out of".
I am making this guide to be useable by anyone. Yes, from time to time something may not be allowed at your table, but that, again, is up to the GM.

[Karoht]

Life Link trick.

The only limitation on Life Link is how many you can have active. They have no listed duration, so infinite is assumed.

Get an Oracle with Fast Healing somehow. In my current campaign, the new players all start at the minimum level of the book we are on (modules) so our Oracle took a LA1 template that got him Fast Healing 2. I think the template was Celestial Touched, with the Planetar option.

Out of combat, you Life Link one person who is injured, you drain off some of your health (we do 10 HP at at time) then sever the link and use the fast healing to fix up the rest on yourself. Re-establish the link and repeat until the entire party is full. 10 HP takes about 5 rounds to Fast Heal back with FA2. So the party hangs out after combat, chills, stays on guard for a follow-up attack of some sort, heals to full at about 10 hp every 30 seconds, then moves on once everyone is okay.

[NewDefect]

Do you have a recommended spell list?

[grarrrg]

Do you have a recommended spell list?

I've thought about it from time to time, but...

The build is fairly free-form to start with. If you want to "play it straight" you'd basically just focus on Healing and damage prevention/buff spells anyway.
But one of the big strengths is that you can play it however you want.

A few stand out from the Paladin list though.

Hero's Defiance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hero-s-defiance) Paladin 1, Immediate action, if you would fall unconscious, you can instantly use a Lay on Hands to heal yourself with a bonus +1d6.

Paladin's Sacrifice (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/paladin-s-sacrifice) Paladin 2, Immediate action, this is basically a 1-use Emergency Shield Other. Unlike Shield Other you take ALL the damage the attack would have done.

And I've heard good things about the Litany X spells.

If the others in your party are Lawful Good, then Bestow Grace of the Champion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bestow-grace-of-the-champion) can be a decent boost.
It's also a handy spell for a single-class Oracle to have and use on themselves.

[Chezha]

Hey guys, new to the giant in the playground but have been hearing about this website for a long time. I will post a hello post after this one.


Alright. I am the type of player who loves healing, could be because of my gender I don't know. I just like healing. I had played an oracle on our last campaign and did not play her properly. I forgot to play a lot of her abilities efficiently. I was playing a sit back and heal, occasional damage spells here and there, kind of character.

Now we have a new campaign, brand new players and I saw myself going back to my Aasimar oracle. DM suggested I play a different version at least. I agreed to be a oradin. What I want my character to do is;


- Heal <--- I guess that's a given.
- I don't necessarily want to land an amazing damage... but I would like to do something when I am not healing.... so I went with tripping.
- I want my character up front by the tank and be able to heal the dps and the tank easier.

I ended up having a lvl 2 paladin and a level 4 oracle (starting at lvl 6). Heritage Angelkin (+ 2 strength and charisma)
My ability scores added up to;

Strength 14
Dexterity 12
Constitution 13
Intellect 13
Wisdom 13
Charisma 20

Favored class Oracle, Hit points at 44, AC will be at 23 (in +1 full plate), +1 light shield and a Chain shirt for when sleeping and travelling in the city... I don't think I want to be slow all the time.

Following Sarenrae, LG
Mystery Life, Safe Curing, Oracle Channel Positive Energy


I did roll Sonic resistance 5 on the aasimar ability table, which was a bonus I guess to Acid, Cold and electricity resistance 5's.

I also have Magical Knack (oracle) which gives me a + 2CL (so I am a class 6 CL Oracle)

Sacred Touch (Auto stabilize dying creature as a standard action)

Safe Curing - healing spells don't provoke Attack of Opportunity.


Feats: Combat Expertise, improved trip and brew potion (in the shape of hard candies... because why not? I think the paladin side of the character might be helping an orphanage. I can't really come up with why I would go on quests with a tiefling, fetchling, sylph, drow, halfing O.O I mean.... I am LG alignment -_-) (I am open to role playing suggestions for my party members... PM please)


Spells: 0 lvl Detect magic and poison, Guidance, mending, purify food and drink, read magic (can stabilize automatically).
lvl 1 Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Command (built in Cure light, detect undead)
lvl 2: Aid (built in Cure mod, lesser restoration)


Kind of the reason why I took Curse: Tongues (Abyssal and Infernal) because I can still communicate with some of my party members at least... This might look weird in a city state ... if I get in a fight. I guess I will whisper or something as to not draw attention to myself?

What do you guys think of this build? Am I missing anything? Can I change something to be a more effective healer? I did kind of think about life link and such... but I can't really wrap my head around the pro's and con's of it.
Also taking suggestions for spells to take, I am not very confident on what I have taken...

Also any suggestions with what future feats I should keep in mind?

Edit: Forgot to mention, I am using a +1 Mithral Light flail as my primary weapon...

[Frosty]

Have you considered the Fey Foundling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fey-foundling) feat? Also, possibly taking more levels in Paladin?

[Chezha]

After reading the posts here I did. But I didn't discuss with my DM about it. I didn't understand what the conditions of taking this feat are. I know I can take feats and what ever from Advance players guide and core rule book kind of thing. But this feat is in the campaign setting inner sea? We are not following a campaign so I don't know how that would work.

[Frosty]

Umm no. The Inner Sea is a region in Golarion (this region happens to be heavily written about in adventures), so it's not specific to any campaign. The book is some sort of primer to that region, which contains many, many countries.

But, in the end, ask your DM.

[grarrrg]

I did kind of think about life link and such... but I can't really wrap my head around the pro's and con's of it.

One of the big bonuses is that you can heal everyone automatically, without having to spend extra actions, or chase everyone down.

The main problem with healing in combat are the Cure spells themselves.
Standard action to cast, and requires a Melee Touch.
This generally leads to spending a Move action to get close enough to your target. So you wind up wasting your whole turn just to remove some damage.
Life Link easily eliminates the "get to touch range" part, as the damage is transferred to you, and you are always within touch range of yourself.

The 'typical' Oradin uses Lay on Hands as a Swift Action way of healing, which frees up your Standard action as well.
Going from "potential Move action + Standard" to "Swift only" is a VERY nice 'upgrade'.


You have Channeling, so you might think about grabbing Selective Channel, that way you can heal all your allies in combat without also healing all your opponents.

[Broken Zenith]

Good stuff! I've added this to the Guide to the Builds (http://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2013/01/guide-to-builds.html). Hope you don't mind!

[Axinian]

OK so last night I started a campaign where I played this (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=691544)

I basically had a flash of inspiration before the game, because I wanted to play the character, who I had played in another campaign as an Oradin, but the campaign required that we all be psionic. So... I basically just replaced Oracle with Vitalist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist)!

It worked really well. You don't need very many Vitalist levels to start, just 2 really. What you want is the Collective, and the ability to distribute health throughout the collective. You can swift action Lay On Hands yourself, get extra HP from Few Foundling, and then transfer that healing to anyone within the collective, essentially letting you heal other people as a swift action at range, and for more than Life Link does.

But Axinian, you may ask, doesn't Vitalist require Wisdom? Doesn't it make you MAD? The answer: Sort of. My strength score took a small hit, but really you only need a 11 in Wis to manifest powers, though you want a 12. An Oracle with Life Link can only form like 1, maybe 2 bonds at low levels anyway so a Vitalist/Paladin essentially has the same number in his collective. Furthermore, the Vitalist's collective grows in size depending on his Wisdom mod, so you can just get a Wis-boosting item to increase it!.

It seems like you could choose any Vitalist method and have the build work just fine. I'm planning on taking another level in Paladin before another in Vitalist, but you can probably do whatever combination of levels. It seems like you want to get those first 2 levels of vitalist ASAP though

The Vitalist Oradin in short:
PROS:
-Swift Action healing of anybody with Lay on Hands, with Fey Foundling bonus
-Can share buffs with people
-If someone else heals, you can take that healing for yourself
-Don't need a curse
-Less essential to have high levels in the secondary class
-Can take psionic feats if you want

CONS:
-Vitalist has d6 hit die
-Slight increase in MAD
-Most psionic healing powers use flat numbers instead of dice, so no Fey Foundling for them
-Holy Vindicator is a lot less good

[Starbin]

The Vitalist Oradin in short:

Well, don't let me be a neigh-sayer, but wouldn't you be a Vitadin? :smallbiggrin:

[Axinian]

Well, don't let me be a neigh-sayer, but wouldn't you be a Vitadin? :smallbiggrin:

That's... genius!

[grarrrg]

The Vitalist Oradin in short:
PROS:
-Swift Action healing of anybody with Lay on Hands, with Fey Foundling bonus
-Can share buffs with people
-If someone else heals, you can take that healing for yourself
-Don't need a curse
-Less essential to have high levels in the secondary class
-Can take psionic feats if you want

CONS:
-Vitalist has d6 hit die
-Slight increase in MAD
-Most psionic healing powers use flat numbers instead of dice, so no Fey Foundling for them
-Holy Vindicator is a lot less good

Nice.
I should steal, borrow, ask if I can put some of this in the guide.
Add Con: Vitalist has 1/2 Bab.

Of course, another Con would be that Vitalist is almost perfect for this role as a Single class.

[TheBetterMan]

This is something I can't seem to find an answer on: Does Adamantine damage reduction reduce damage taken as an effect of Life Link and/or Shield Other?

[Spore]

This is something I can't seem to find an answer on: Does Adamantine damage reduction reduce damage taken as an effect of Life Link and/or Shield Other?

You transfer the damage, not parts of a cut. It's a spell effect or supernatural ability, you do not get hit.

[TheBetterMan]

You transfer the damage, not parts of a cut. It's a spell effect or supernatural ability, you do not get hit.

Okay, thanks. That's the way I've been using it, but I thought maybe when Shield Other damage transferred and it was weapon damage it might actually reduce it.

[Zubrowka74]

Well, don't let me be a neigh-sayer, but wouldn't you be a Vitadin? :smallbiggrin:

"Paladist" doesn't work that well...

[grarrrg]

"Paladist" doesn't work that well...

Palist works ok.
As does Palalist.
Paladitalist does not.

[Zubrowka74]

Palist works ok.
As does Palalist.
Paladitalist does not.

Vitaladin ?

[grarrrg]

Vitaladin ?

OOOH!! I like that one.

[Starbin]

But then how can all the Mommie Monsters ask their Little Monsters if they've taken their Vitadins?

Vitalidin sounds like something for those suffering from performance issues. "Need some arrows in your quiver? Looking to put the steel back in your sheath? Find that your Improved Sunder is a big blunder? Well, just take Vitalidin and you'll rise to any occasion!"

Please consult your physician prior to using Vitalidin. Do not take Vitalidin if you have a history of low hit points, negative Con modifiers, or single-digit Fort saves. Side effects may include fatigued or staggered conditions, non-lethal damage, and reduced ability scores. Immediately see a cleric if the increased reach on your weapon lasts longer than four hours.

[Winterschmied]

Hey there everyone!

One Question...

I saw this Post and like this build and would like to try it but in my campaign we have to deal alot with curses diseases and the like. Where between level 4-6

Did I miss something or do you have with the Oradin problem to deal with that?

[grarrrg]

I saw this Post and like this build and would like to try it but in my campaign we have to deal alot with curses diseases and the like. Where between level 4-6

If he's throwing that kind of stuff at you at that low a level, then you're in a tough spot, regardless of what you're playing.

Oracles get Remove Curse/Disease as 3rd level spells.
There's also the Paladin's Mercy class feature.
You can get the Disease Mercy at level 6, and the Curse Mercy at level 9.

There's also the Bracelet of Mercy (from Ult. Equip.), it gives +1/day Lay on Hands and the Disease Mercy. If you already have it, you count as +4 levels for Removing Disease.

[Winterschmied]

Thanks! I'll try this then. I hope we dont get more trees from strange curses!

[Karoht]

http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/remove-sickness
...is a first level spell for Oracles/Clerics.
Curses suck at low level. You will probably have to buy some scrolls of remove curse for a while, at least until you reach 3rd level Oracle/Cleric casting, or take the Paladin Mercy described above.

A scroll of remove curse will cost you...375g. Always carry 2 on you until you have a reliable means of removing the effect yourself. This applies to all of the 'Remove ...' spells. All of the 'Remove ...' spells are a sound investment on your spells known list.

[grarrrg]

Finally added a Vitaladin section, and Psionic Races.

I am not familiar with Psionics, so if there are any feats/powers/etc... that just scream VITALADIN! please let me know, and I'll add them in.

[Talya]

I've mentioned in other threads how much I adore this build.

Hey, i think Eldritch Heritage deserves a mention in your feats section. Any class with charisma can find something in there that's worth using, and if you went half-elf, the prerequisite is free.

[grarrrg]

Hey, i think Eldritch Heritage deserves a mention in your feats section. Any class with charisma can find something in there that's worth using

I admit it's a solid option, but it's not in the guide for the same reason a lot of things aren't in the guide.

Things that go in the guide: things that directly help 'healing' (or seem like they might help but are actually kinda bad).

One of the issues with the Oradin build is that, at the end of the day, it really isn't a "build". It's just two abilities that combine really well. The rest of it is entirely up in the air. As long as you have a way to move damage/healing around (Life Link, Shield Other, Collective) and a way to heal without spending a Standard Action (Lay on Hands, Energy Body, Fast Healing, Ring of Regeneration) it can be considered an "Oradin build" (even if it contains neither Paladin nor Oracle).

Thus the guide is focused on the things that the Oradin portion cares about > the healing.
The other 75% of the build could be Archery, Melee Damage, Tripping, Casting, etc... And listing the good stuff for all of those options would take up quite a bit of space.

I am open to suggestions though, so keep them coming :smallsmile:

P.S. I. Am. A. Moron.
How in the heck have I had this guide for this long and NOT recommended a Ring of Regeneration?
I mean SERIOUSLY!?

[Talya]

I admit it's a solid option, but it's not in the guide for the same reason a lot of things aren't in the guide.

Things that go in the guide: things that directly help 'healing' (or seem like they might help but are actually kinda bad).

{snip}
How in the heck have I had this guide for this long and NOT recommended a Ring of Regeneration?
I mean SERIOUSLY!?

Let's go with the ring of regeneration.

And...Eldritch Heritage Arcane Bloodline gets you a bonded item. You take a ring, which gets you an extra spell per day you know spontaneously (including from your paladin list). And you can make it a ring. Which you can enhance as if you had forge ring. Which makes that ridiculously expensive ring of regeneration WAY cheaper.

Yes, Forge Ring gets you the same thing, but this is probably better if only for the extra spontaneously cast spell per day...

[Makarion]

Hi!

First of all, thank you for the guide. Perhaps mini in claim, but it's a giant in practice!

Now, a question. How do you feel an oradin would do that would (strongly) favour laying on hands over channeling? I'm likely going to play a half-elf oradin in the near future, and it really starts to look like I won't have a lot of freedom on my feats. If I could cut Selective Channeling, it'd be great.

The general plan is to start (level 3 campaign start, slow or medium progression) as an oracle 1 / paladin 2, with Fey Foundling and one other feat. I'm considering swapping the skill focus for ancestral arms, although I'm not sure yet what weapon to be honest. I do like the idea of the falcata, maybe combined with a quickdraw light shield so I have a hand free for spellcasting, laying on hands if I need to heal someone else, etc.

In a related question, how do you feel that the Hospitaler and Sacred Servant archetypes compare? The latter looks very competitive, but it seems most people assume the former for the oradin.


Thank you in advance :)

[ProfRedwood]

so this is similar to the vitalist where it is a similar concept but different class what about barbaracle? so as far as i can tell Life link is just regualr damage it isn't divine or bleed so DR applies normally. So invulnerable barbarian6/oracle2 with this set up you can as a barbarian choose guarded life, and when combined with diehard works like this when you are at 4hp or less;
The wizard and ranger get fireballed
Life link kicks in they all get healed 5 and you take 2 instances of 5 damage
guard life converts each instance to non lethal.
Your DR3 counts as double for non lethal so you reduce it by 6 that's 0 damage. that's not bad but bizarrely if you combine the the suboptimal rage prophet and the urban barbarian you get a very odd range support healer so bear with and look past the use of the "trap" urban barabarian and rage prophet it's good I swear XD. urban barbarian doesn't cause you to lose AC nor does it disrupt your casting. also you can pump you Dex and support for afar with a bow. Lastly if you want to be at dr5 all the time as early as possible go half orc barbarian 1/oracle 2. that's it trade out intimating for endurance chosse diehard at level and stalwart at level 3. now go sit in the back forever using total defense to boost your DR1 to DR5. human also works.

[grarrrg]

Now, a question. How do you feel an oradin would do that would (strongly) favour laying on hands over channeling? I'm likely going to play a half-elf oradin in the near future, and it really starts to look like I won't have a lot of freedom on my feats. If I could cut Selective Channeling, it'd be great.

Focusing much more on Lay on Hands should not be a problem.
Channeling is mainly handy as a way to patch everyone up quickly, such as the group being hit by a Fireball. Or out of combat to get everyone back up to (near) max HP.
Cutting down on using it in combat, and saving it for out of combat should work fine.


In a related question, how do you feel that the Hospitaler and Sacred Servant archetypes compare? The latter looks very competitive, but it seems most people assume the former for the oradin.

Hospitaler is more 'front-loaded' with it's benefits, and is much simpler with it's bonuses. Being able to Channel Energy withOUT having to use Lay on Hands is very nice.
Sacred Servant takes longer to get going, and the Divine Bond is a little screwy, but is probably the stronger high level choice.



so this is similar to the vitalist where it is a similar concept but different class what about barbaracle? so as far as i can tell Life link is just regualr damage it isn't divine or bleed so DR applies normally.

Damage Reduction (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Damage-Reduction) only applies vs. Attacks.
Life Link is not an attack, and so DR does nothing.

Shield Other should work with DR though.

[Anarax]

I want to throw my two cents in here. This is a great build! I am going to be using this as one of my characters in PFS.

I found an item on the Pazio Thread that isn't mentioend at all in your thread.

Meditation Crystals (100 gp, 1lb) from Adventures Armory.

Its a Channel Focus.


Activating a focus is identical to channeling energy, but instead of directing the power outward, the cleric (or other appropriate character) directs it into the focus, expending one use of channel energy. This triggers the item’s ability


Meditation Crystal: Though this focus is usually a hand-sized crystal, the exact form (such as a wooden idol, an iron disk, and so on) may vary for some religions. A monk or paladin of the cleric’s faith may concentrate upon an activated meditation crystal, taking no actions for 1 minute, and regain 1 ki point or one use of lay on hands. Once activated, the crystal retains its energy until a monk or paladin uses it for this purpose or 24 hours pass.

Suggested use: buy a few of these up to the amount of Channels you have for the day. Channel into them at the beginning of the day (suggest that you save some channels however) and trade Channels for extra Lay on Hands on a 1:1 basis do this before Combat, or even refill uses of Lay on Hands After combat to have more available for the next combat.

Seems a cheap and great way to get multiple extra lay on hands during the day.

[grarrrg]

I want to throw my two cents in here. This is a great build! I am going to be using this as one of my characters in PFS.

I found an item on the Pazio Thread that isn't mentioend at all in your thread.

Meditation Crystals (100 gp, 1lb) from Adventures Armory.

Suggested use: buy a few of these up to the amount of Channels you have for the day. Channel into them at the beginning of the day (suggest that you save some channels however) and trade Channels for extra Lay on Hands on a 1:1 basis do this before Combat, or even refill uses of Lay on Hands After combat to have more available for the next combat.

Seems a cheap and great way to get multiple extra lay on hands during the day.

Into the guide it goes!

[TheLastSane1]

Ok I noticed it does not have as many specifics on a Cleric/Oracle build.

I am working on a character who is going to be the players mentor and healer during their early missions. He will be a gestalt of Oracle and one other class but not sure. I like the Paladin idea but the channeling surge is nice depending on the party size.

[grarrrg]

Ok I noticed it does not have as many specifics on a Cleric/Oracle build.

That's cause it's not a specific build.
More of a "these 2 abilities work pretty well together, what else can we do with that?"


I am working on a character who is going to be the players mentor and healer during their early missions. He will be a gestalt of Oracle and one other class but not sure. I like the Paladin idea but the channeling surge is nice depending on the party size.

Oracle/Cleric seems like too much of the same thing. If you do go this route, I'd stay VERY away from the Life Mystery. As thematically appropriate as it may be, it'd just be more of the same.

I could see an Oracle/Bard working pretty well though. Performance to give boosts, and Oracle to patch the up afterwards (and possibly during).

[Moadis]

"Wayfinder (Pathfinder Chronicles, Seekers of Secrets)
They require Ioun Stones to function, one of the possible bonuses is +1/day Lay on Hands, another possible bonus is +1/day Channel."

Hi.
I have done some extensive searching but can not find the wayfinder who would give any of this two bonuses. I am building an oradin for PFS. Could you provide the names of the wayfinders in question and the books they are from please.
Btw great guide.

[grarrrg]

"Wayfinder (Pathfinder Chronicles, Seekers of Secrets)
They require Ioun Stones to function, one of the possible bonuses is +1/day Lay on Hands, another possible bonus is +1/day Channel."

Hi.
I have done some extensive searching but can not find the wayfinder who would give any of this two bonuses. I am building an oradin for PFS. Could you provide the names of the wayfinders in question and the books they are from please.
Btw great guide.

Basic Wayfinder, nothing specific.
The book is right there in what you quoted
"Pathfinder Chronicles, Seekers of Secrets"
The Lay on Hands or Channel are two of the possible "resonant powers" on the table (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/wayfinder-standard).

[Moadis]

Found it, thx.
The problem is its on the random roll table. Its a 2% chance on d100 to get one of the two desirable effects per ion stone used. Not sure how that work on PFS but based on what is said on the book unless you are really lucky with your roll it can get very expensive quickly if you keep trying. You only have one roll per Ion Stone.

[grarrrg]

Found it, thx.
The problem is its on the random roll table. Its a 2% chance on d100 to get one of the two desirable effects per ion stone used. Not sure how that work on PFS but based on what is said on the book unless you are really lucky with your roll it can get very expensive quickly if you keep trying. You only have one roll per Ion Stone.

I agree, if played entirely as written, it is a poor option.
But it is a potential bonus (sake of completeness), some DM's may be more lenient and let you re-roll (because most of those abilities are pointless for any random class).
You may even be able to work out a "swap meet" type thing in a bigger city, trading/buying for the exact bonus you want.

[mevans7]

Loving this build. Just got to 7 in our campaign and picked up Greater Mercy which really helps with the whole "quality of life" during combat. I breathe a bit easier, that's for sure.

One small question about the build from the 1st post, and its minor, where does the extra +3 healing come from for lay on hands? I see at level10 you've got 4d8+11 (3d8 paladin + 1d8 greater mercy and +8 from fay foundling) but I can't account for the other +3. Are you adding Cha to the healing done? Did I miss that rule somewhere?

[Starbin]

Are they the favored class bonus for 6 lvls of Paladin (for elves)?

[mevans7]

That's exactly what it is. Thanks!

[Rylar]

What mythic options do you like for taking this build? Right now I'm a 2paly/2oracle. Going to be a 2paly/4oracle shortly and becoming mythic. I'm planning to go strait paladin (hospitaler) after this, but nothing is set in stone.

[grarrrg]

What mythic options do you like for taking this build?

I haven't delved into Mythic all that much.
Perhaps someone else more familiar with it can chime in on good selections?

[Rylar]

So far a few things have stood out:


Divine Vessel (Ex): At 10th tier, whenever you cast a spell that targets one or more non-mythic creatures, those creatures must roll twice for any saving throws associated with the spell and take the lower result. Whenever you are healed of hit point damage by a spell or effect, you are healed for the maximum possible amount. You also gain DR 10/epic. Once per round when you take more than 20 points of damage (after damage reduction is applied), you regain one use of mythic power.

Healing for max every time I LoH seems pretty strong. This is the hierophant capstone and out of the capstones it seems the one to fit the character the best.


Faith's Reach (Su): Whenever you cast a divine spell with a range of touch, you can instead cast the spell with a range of 30 feet. If the spell normally requires a melee touch attack, it instead requires a ranged touch attack.

While I will have a very limited spell pool, I find this to be quite strong. With this I will be able to cast shield at range or buff an allies weapon easier.


Overflowing Grace (Su): When you heal a creature with positive energy (such as by channeling positive energy to heal the living, using cure spells, or using lay on hands), any affected creature at full hit points (whether already at full hit points or healed to full hit points by your channeled energy) gains a +1 sacred bonus on attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 minute. If you channel negative energy to heal undead, this is a profane bonus rather than a sacred bonus.

Seems like a nice perk to add to my channeling ability.

[CubeB]

So, I'm doing an experimental variation on this build: The Vitapriest. It's a potentially good Low CHA Option for this style of build (though you'll probably want some Charisma anyway). Here's how it works.


One Level of Vitalist: All you really need from this is the Collective.
As Many Levels of Warpriest as you like

You already know about the Vitalist, the important part of this whole experiment is the Warpriest part. Here's a quick run down of the Pros and Cons.


The Warpriest
The Warpriest is an Alternate Class of the Cleric and the Fighter from the Advanced Class Guide, which is still only in Playtest form. The proper guide is set to be released in August. It's somewhere between the Paladin and the Cleric in terms of play, in that it has a lot of features of both. Warpriests are Wisdom Focused, meaning that unlike a Vitadin build, you don't have to pump up a stat you wouldn't normally use to have a decently sized collective. They're also Proficient in Heavy Armor, Martial Weapons, and most importantly The Favored Weapon of their Deity. This opens up a lot of options depending on what deity you worship, especially because a Warpriest Gets Free Weapon Focus with his Chosen Weapon, and The Damage of Said Weapon Scales With the Warpriest's Level. You could have a Kukri wielding Vitadin, an Unarmed Vitadin, a Gunslinging Vitadin... The major downside, however, is that You Only Have Full BAB With Weapons you have the Weapon Focus feat for. You get the feat for free at level 1, but this "fake BAB" slows your access to various feats. Furthermore, You Can Never Multiclass With Fighter or Cleric due to how the alternate class rules work. Your HD is also a d8, which is lower than a Paladin, and You Don't Gain Access to Divine Grace or Other Paladin Immunities.

Here's what you do get.


Fervor: Fervor is the Warpriest version of Lay On Hands, and functions almost identically to it. It Scales Off Charisma, which sucks, and the Warpriest doesn't have an equivalent to the Mercy class feature, meaning It Can't Heal Status Effects, Or Benefit from Greater Mercy. What you can do is Burn a Use of Fervor to Cast A Quickened, Stilled Spell On Yourself Without Provoking An Attack Of Opportunity. This is extremely useful, at it allows you to rapidly buff yourself and opens up things like True Strike Shenanigans.

Also, Evil Warpriests Don't Get the Healing Aspect Of Fervor, it's negative energy for them. This isn't so bad if you've got Negative Energy Affinity, but see below.

Blessings: The Warpriest version of Domains and Inquisitions. Blessings are much more limited than either of those, in that they share a single pool (3+1/2 Level), and have two powers a piece. You get your first at level 1, and your second at level 10. The one of note here is the Healing Blessing, which is essentially a second stack of Fervor solely for Quickening Cure Spells On Yourself. In other words, you can have a maximum of 13 quickened cures of various sizes, in addition to your stack of Fervor heals. The downside is that You Can Only Quicken Prepared Cures, not Spontaneous Ones, which means that They'd Be Competing For Your Spell Slots. Still, it's a nice buffer. Unfortunately, No Equivalent Exists for Evil Warpriests, so unless you're an undead Warpriest with a Pallid Crystal who worships a God of Healing, you'd be out of luck.

Spells: The good news is, Warpriests Have Access To the Cleric/Oracle Spell List!, the bad news is Warpriests Have Bard/Inquisitor Spell Progression, Locking You Out Of 9th Level Spells. Not only do you get fewer spell levels than a Cleric or Oracle, you get them later than a cleric of an equivalent level would, with Spell Level Jumps ever 3 levels. This still opens up a lot of fun options for you, and since You Prepare Spells Like A Cleric, you've got a lot of versatility. Since you can cast spells over your Collective, this creates a lot of support options that the more offensively oriented Inquisitor and Paladin simply don't have. You'll be tight on spell slots though.

Channeling: Warpriest Channeling Works Like Paladin Channeling, but there is No Hospitaler Equivalent. Sucks. Worse, this (combined with the weird "fake BAB" thing), means that Holy Vindicator isn't as strong an option.

Warpriest suffers a bit from a lack of Feat and Splatbook support, since it hasn't really been released yet. Archetypes and Feats would really help. I'm confident, though, that the Vitapriest will be a viable (if perhaps less powerful) version of the Oradin build.

[PsyBomb]

Although it's still in Playtest as well, the Akashic system (DSP's Incarnum port)is working out VERY well with this build. There is a STR/CHA/-wis race (that also has a native bite attack), and a feat that allows you to up your effective character level for Lay On Hands. I used it for a Glaivedin Oradin build to awesome effect.

[grarrrg]

Once the Warpriest and such are "official" I'll add what's relevant to the guide.

3rd party stuff is still iffy, and a case-by-case basis (although DSP-Psionics have a better chance than not).

[Rylar]

Items of interest:
Bracers of the Merciful Knight 15.6k - opposed to bracelet of Mercy 15k. Same book (ult equipment)

These golden bracers are engraved with images of celestial creatures. When worn by a paladin, he is considered four levels higher for the purposes of determining the uses per day and healing provided by his lay on hands class feature. Additionally, once per day, the wearer can infuse a use of lay on hands with additional power, providing relief as a lesser restoration spell.

4 levels higher means extra 2 LoH and 2d6 more healing. vs 1 extra use of the bracelets. I also think lesser restoration is better than removal of a disease.

Also Inheritor's Light from gods of the inner sea:

This +1 longsword sheds light a s a torch and when drawn emits a shining starburst around the hilt, similar to Iomedae’s holy symbol. Any cure spells or lay on hands effects used to heal the wielder of this blade heal an additional 1 point of damage per die, up to the effect’s normal maximum healing amount. Once per day, the wielder can use inheritor’s smite*.

[grarrrg]

Items of interest:
Bracers of the Merciful Knight 15.6k - opposed to bracelet of Mercy 15k. Same book (ult equipment)

4 levels higher means extra 2 LoH and 2d6 more healing. vs 1 extra use of the bracelets. I also think lesser restoration is better than removal of a disease.


Good finds.
[rummaging]...Ah, that explains things. The Bracelets were originally printed in Advanced Player's Guide.
When they made Ultimate Equipment they threw them in, and then made them virtually obsolete at the same time.
Nice.

[Teatime42]

Made an account just to share a few things, as well as thank you for this guide. :D

Asked here about the meditation crystals:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r3a8?Item-question-Meditation-crystals

And got an answer that makes sense to me, though I am pretty new, and he could have been wrong.

The second thing, is that while looking for Oracle curses (Coulda sworn there was a mute one...(There was, two in fact, all third party)) I found a large list including several third party curses.

From: http://paizo.com/products/btpy8mus?Oracle-Curses
Text is from: https://crimson-skies.obsidianportal.com/wiki_pages/new-oracle-curses

Feeble:
Your bones are brittle and your blood thin. Successful attacks against you deal bleed (1d6) damage in addition to any other damage. You have fast healing 1.
At 5th level, you gain fast healing 2.
At 10th level, you gain fast healing 4.
At 15th level, your fast healing becomes regeneration 3 (acid, fire).

I think you said that you weren't using third party material, I mention it only because it may be something that others can use, and because it also lead me to look harder at:

Fast Healer
You benefit greatly from your healing, be it from spells or natural healing.
Prerequisites: Con 13, Diehard, Endurance.
Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1).

Looks like crap, but the "Magical Healing" part leapt out at me, would this count off of fast heal? Regeneration?

I googled a bit, and found (Only thing I found, it was about Bleed damage and magical healing):

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mej3?Does-RegenerateFast-Heal-stop-bleed

Specifically:

James Jacobs
My vote: both of them should stop bleed.
But if you're only gonna pick one of them... it seems silly to let regeneration restore lost body parts but not stop bleed.

But also was noted by another (Diego Rossi) later, that by RAW, it DOESN'T work, though he would let them stop bleeding himself.

So, it could be argued (I think) that that same magical healing that stops the Bleed, would also apply to Fast Healer for Fast heal and Regeneration.

Making that Ring of Regeneration ever better, or however you manage to gain Fast Heal, even more awesome.

Suddenly with a sub 18 con, you're fast heal 1 is acting like fast heal 2, with more than 18, it's a fast heal 3. Same with the Ring, regening 2-3 hp depending on your con. With a Fast heal 4 (Max from that curse) and an 18 con, you're healing 6 hp every round, that's a free bond right there. Though, to get more than +2, you would need a Con of 22, and to get a +4, a con of 26. So, scaling is expensive, but if you're gaining con from items (And since Con is so valuable here, it makes sense too), it would mostly be icing on the cake.

(Though it is worth noting that by the time you receive this feat, it may not be worth the feat slot for an extra 1-3 hp a turn)

I went to my own GM for approval (Not that it matters to anyone reading this what he said XD), and when I laid it out for him, he okayed me for use in his game. Especially since the Fast Heal I was receiving was from my Curse, and he argued that it was then of a magical/divine/profane source.

Something to note, I am a complete Novice when it comes to Pathfinder topics, so please, feel free to check these, I would prefer it. XD

Thank you for this great guide, enjoyed making a character using it. It was nice to make a character that was literally giving of it's own life to aid others. I went full on and grabbed anything I could to mediate damage to allies, including a Tiefling only Trait called "Suicidal", allowing you to 1/day as an immediate action, take a hit for someone in an adjacent square. :)

Woo, Tiefling Paladin of Seranrae! XD

(Speaking of which, the Sarenrae, Desna and Urgathoa Deific Obedience's (Appears to be Exalted only, so Evangelist isn't a good bet, which since you were losing 20 HP taking Evangelist anyway, already hurt quite a bit) apparently have various effects that buffs Channeling, unsure what exactly (Only have this guide to go off of, and it's vague, probably intentionally: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qyjz?Walter-s-Guide-to-Deific-Obediences), I don't have the book myself. :/)

[Teatime42]

Meh, tried to edit, phone said no...

Anyways, this wayfinder is also kinda interesting, cure spells only, so not as good as I first thought.

34) Cure spells heal the bearer an additional 2 hit points per die.

[grarrrg]

Made an account just to share a few things, as well as thank you for this guide. :D

*rubs hands together menacingly* Good, good, the subliminal messages are working, good...


Asked here about the meditation crystals:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r3a8?Item-question-Meditation-crystals

And got an answer that makes sense to me, though I am pretty new, and he could have been wrong.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure 1-each is the intended, but they are extremely cheap for what they do.


Feeble:
Your bones are brittle and your blood thin. Successful attacks against you deal bleed (1d6) damage in addition to any other damage. You have fast healing 1.
At 5th level, you gain fast healing 2.
At 10th level, you gain fast healing 4.
At 15th level, your fast healing becomes regeneration 3 (acid, fire).

This is the problem with most 3rd party stuff. Excluding "Fast Heal stops Bleed" for the moment, once you hit level 10 the Healing is FASTER than the Bleed damage (Bleed doesn't stack), making the "penalty" completely pointless. Of course, once you hit level 15, then the Bleed is slightly worse than the Regen amount...yeah...


Fast Healer
You benefit greatly from your healing, be it from spells or natural healing.
Prerequisites: Con 13, Diehard, Endurance.
Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1).

Looks like crap, but the "Magical Healing" part leapt out at me, would this count off of fast heal? Regeneration?

Technically it doesn't work.
Fast Healing and Regeneration are (EX), which are explicitly not Magical. Fast Healer Feat specifies "resting" or "magical healing".
There is some possible RAI to make it work, but as written it does not.
If it did though it would make Fast Healer MUCH more useful, as half-CON-mod is pretty pathetic.

[Teatime42]

*rubs hands together menacingly* Good, good, the subliminal messages are working, good...

Praise him... praise him... praise him...


Yeah, I'm pretty sure 1-each is the intended, but they are extremely cheap for what they do.

Yeah, when I showed it to my GM, he got this weird gleam in his eye, and started building an entire gemcrafting system for it. XD

Heck, my character is ending up with a profession and crafting out of it. XD

That's why I love the guy, we may end up using too much Homebrew in my opinion, but it always ends up being fun and adding to the groups experience.


This is the problem with most 3rd party stuff. Excluding "Fast Heal stops Bleed" for the moment, once you hit level 10 the Healing is FASTER than the Bleed damage (Bleed doesn't stack), making the "penalty" completely pointless. Of course, once you hit level 15, then the Bleed is slightly worse than the Regen amount...yeah...

Technically it doesn't work.
Fast Healing and Regeneration are (EX), which are explicitly not Magical. Fast Healer Feat specifies "resting" or "magical healing".
There is some possible RAI to make it work, but as written it does not.
If it did though it would make Fast Healer MUCH more useful, as half-CON-mod is pretty pathetic.

Oof, I hadn't made the mental connection between what I was trying to figure out, and the Bleed damage of the curse itself. We talked a bit, and neither of us was cool with the bleed being healed away EVERY turn. So, while it doesn't matter for your purposes (Like I said, the guy did say it was against RAW in that thread, definitely didn't dispute that, mostly just trying to show possible, alternative and useful things, sorry they weren't so useful or helpful :( ) , just to let you know how we fixed it for us, we went with what one of the other posters said.

Totally Homebrew now, ignoreignoreignore. XD
That when your fast healing is MORE than the bleed's damage, it heals. Regen does it after one turn. Bleed does 6 damage, you fast heal 2, bleed continues. You bleed for 1, you fast heal 2, the bleed heals. Even with fast heal 4, the bleed is an average of 3.5, that would give the bleed a good chance of staying. Tempted to ask him to make it so that you need 1 point above the bleed, so, bleed for 3, heal for 4, good. Bleed for 4, heal for 4, bleed stays.

Again, just saying that for information purposes, and thank you for pointing out that crucial thing I had missed. XD

Oh man, that would have sucked, invalidating the curse like that.

Did you get any information on the Obedience channel bits? I figure it's going to be a few weeks before they're available commonly online. Friend has the book, trying to get a hold of it.

Thank you again. :)

[Dragon-Rider]

This is a fantastic resource. Grarrrg, thank you very much for compiling this. And thank you to everyone who contributed ideas.

I really like the typical Oradin build, but there are a couple things I don't quite understand:

1) The race of the typical build is a Half-Elf. The Half-Elf favored class option for Oracles is +1 spell known (but must be at least 1 level lower than the highest spell leve the Oracle is able to cast). However, the typical build somehow selects the Elf Oracle Favored Class bonus for 2 levels of Oracle. How is it possible for a Half-Elf to select an Elven favored class option? Is there a rule, feat or trait that I'm not aware of that allows this? If so, can you point me to it?

2) How does the typical build's Lay On Hands ability heal 6d6+15 (self) or 6d6+3 (others)? I think I understand the 6d6 part (3d6 for a 6th level Paladin, +2d6 for the Bracers of the Merciful Knight, +1d6 for the Greater Mercy feat). I also understand that Fey Foundling would give a +12 bonus when using Lay On Hands to self heal. But I don't understand where the remaining +3 for self healing and the +3 for healing others comes from. I'd really appreciate it if someone could explain that to me.

Thank you!
~Dragon-Rider

[VexingFool]

1) The race of the typical build is a Half-Elf. The Half-Elf favored class option for Oracles is +1 spell known (but must be at least 1 level lower than the highest spell leve the Oracle is able to cast). However, the typical build somehow selects the Elf Oracle Favored Class bonus for 2 levels of Oracle. How is it possible for a Half-Elf to select an Elven favored class option? Is there a rule, feat or trait that I'm not aware of that allows this? If so, can you point me to it?


Can a half-elf select human racial favored class options?

Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).

I'd post a link but I can't get to the Paizo site from work.

[grarrrg]

1) The race of the typical build is a Half-Elf....However, the typical build somehow selects the Elf Oracle Favored Class bonus for 2 levels of Oracle. How is it possible for a Half-Elf to select an Elven favored class option?...If so, can you point me to it?

Here's the FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qf9) that VexingFool mentioned.

So when it comes to Favored Class bonuses Half-Elves can choose:
Paladin>Human> +1 Energy Resist
Paladin>Half-Elf> +1ft. to Auras
Paladin>Elf> +1/2 to Lay on hands
Oracle>Human or Half-Elf> +1 Spell Known (not highest)
Oracle>Elf> +1/2 level towards Revelation
[any]>[any]> +1 HP or +1 Skill point.

AND they can have 2 favored Classes.
Half-Elves are sweet like that (no so much Half-Orc Oradins though :smallfrown:)


2) How does the typical build's Lay On Hands ability heal 6d6+15 (self) or 6d6+3 (others)? I think I understand the 6d6 part...But I don't understand where the remaining +3 for self healing and the +3 for healing others comes from. I'd really appreciate it if someone could explain that to me.

I finally realized that I forgot to point out that the Half-Elf is also taking the Elf Favored Class Paladin bonus of +1/2 to Lay on Hands per level.
6 levels * +1/2 bonus = +3 to Lay on Hands.
TO THE EDITS!

[Dragon-Rider]

@VexingFool & Grarrrg:

Thank you both very much for clearing that up for me and for linking to the FAQ.

~Dragon-Rider

[Zan Thrax]

The half-elf's multitalented ability is nice, but for any Paladin-centric Oradin that merely dips Oracle, the Tiefling's Paladin FCB is incredibly good. +1 point per level for laying hands on self is much more useful for an Oradin than the elf FCB.

I'm not sure that it's as strong a candidate as the Hospitalier for mentioning in a general guide, but I'm really happy with the Oradin I've just built around the new Iroran Paladin archetype. Getting claws from being a Tiefling, and a bite from Wolfscarred curse (in-combat casting should be minimized as an Oradin anyhow; someone slightly less cheese-adverse could do Deaf/Wolfscarred Dual Cursed) meets the prerequisites to take Multiattack at level 3, so that he can follow up his regular unarmed strike with a claw/claw/bite routine at BAB-2 each. Brawling Armour boosts the unarmed strikes, Deliquescent Gloves boost the claws (optional), and an amulet of mighty fists boosts everything. The ki pool isn't as useful as channels would be, but at least DR is pretty much irrelevant to him and he can boost his speed or AC on rounds where he won't need to lay hands on. (It'd be really nice if there was an item that could be used to turn ki into channels, or directly into lay on hands uses, but the only way I know to do that is the Champion of Irori, which the Iroran Paladin can't qualify for.)

[grarrrg]

The half-elf's multitalented ability is nice, but for any Paladin-centric Oradin that merely dips Oracle, the Tiefling's Paladin FCB is incredibly good. +1 point per level for laying hands on self is much more useful for an Oradin than the elf FCB.

And that's exactly why the little "Best. Race. Possible." is attached to the Tiefling under the Races section.
But some people prefer a more Oracle-heavy build, making Half-Elf that much better.
Some DM's frown upon Alt-Tieflings, and being stuck with -2 CHA, and generally unhelpful +2 DEX/+2 INT isn't all that great.
And even other DM's just won't allow Tieflings at all.

So Half-Elf is a good solid all around choice.


Champion of Irori, which the Iroran Paladin can't qualify for

It actually can.
Chevalier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/chevalier) PrC gets Smite Evil at 3rd level.
It requires 6 Bab, and Champion requires Still Mind as a Monk feature, so for a full 10 levels of Champion you're looking at Paladin 4/Monk 3/Chevalier 3 or Paladin 3/Monk 4/Chevalier 3
As for how exactly Chevalier Smite Evil stacks with Champion Smite Evil...you'll have to work that out with your DM.

In fact, we had a short discussion on this just last month (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?346590-New-Archetypes!-Cool-Paladin-One!-Stupid-Fighter-One!&p=17604012&viewfull=1#post17604012).

[Zan Thrax]

Oops. Didn't notice that on the tiefling. Gets a little confusing with all the collapsible sections.

On an unrelated note; I was looking at magic items in the 5K range last night for my Oradin, and noticed the new Boots of the Earth (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Boots%20of%20t he%20Earth) from Inner Sea Gods. 5K for what's essentially as-needed fast healing 1. Not quite a ring of regeneration, but ridiculously cheap.

A one level dip in Unbreakable Fighter gives the prerequisites for Fast Healer and a bonus feat to replace the one that Fast Healer uses up and those boots are now fast healing 3 for 5,000 gp.

[grarrrg]

On an unrelated note; I was looking at magic items in the 5K range last night for my Oradin, and noticed the new Boots of the Earth (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Boots%20of%20t he%20Earth) from Inner Sea Gods. 5K for what's essentially as-needed fast healing 1. Not quite a ring of regeneration, but ridiculously cheap.

Those boots are ridiculously nice for that price. SOLD!


A one level dip in Unbreakable Fighter gives the prerequisites for Fast Healer and a bonus feat to replace the one that Fast Healer uses up and those boots are now fast healing 3 for 5,000 gp.

Unbreakable is also already mentioned :smallwink:
But it trades the typical level 1 bonus feat for Die Hard/Endurance.

And as mentioned above, by RAW Fast Healer Feat doesn't work with Fast Healing (Healer only works on "rest" and "Magical healing", Fast Healing is EX and therefore gives your opponent 2 prizes NOT Magical).

[Zan Thrax]

Unbreakable is also already mentioned :smallwink:
But it trades the typical level 1 bonus feat for Die Hard/Endurance.

And as mentioned above, by RAW Fast Healer Feat doesn't work with Fast Healing (Healer only works on "rest" and "Magical healing", Fast Healing is EX and therefore gives your opponent 2 prizes NOT Magical).

Well boo to that. Still pretty sure that I'm going to be spending my money on those boots next session though.

[grarrrg]

Oh heck yes, those Boots are almost too good.
There should almost be a "per encounter" type thing like Inquisitor's Judgement.
But there isn't, and they are stupid cheap.


As for not working with the Fast Healer feat, that isn't too much of a loss.
An extra 2HP/round in combat isn't all that much, and out of combat you can still top everyone off fairly quickly. 10 minutes of Fast Healing 1 = 100 HP
So unless your DM is really into forced marches, or "Indiana Jones temple collapsing run for your lives" type stuff you should be fine.

[CubeB]

So, the final version of the Warpriest is out, so I'm going to redo my post suggestions.

Good Things about the Warpriest (When Compared to the Paladin and Inquisitor)
Wisdom Focused. Does not require Charisma at all.
Half-Progression Spellcasting from First Level, with Cleric style preparation. A Warpriest has a much larger spell selection than the alternative classes.
Potentially better damage with Deity's favored weapon, allowing builds that let you do multiple d6s of damage with Kukris.
Spontaneous Casting of Cure Spells, which the Paladin and the Inquisitor cannot do.
Fervor, your version of Lay On Hands, also allows you to Swift Cast a spell on yourself.
Blessings: The only relevant to an Oradin Build Specifically is healing, which isn't that great but can boost your output a little bit. The other ones are very nice however.

Bad Things
BAB is only Medium Progression.
No Mercies.
No option to gain an additional pool of Channel Energy. You need to spend two uses of Fervor.
Nearly all of your Archetypes replace Channel Energy, and require you to use Fervor to power their abilities.

Run Down of the Archetypes
Champion of the Faith: Replaces some Bonus Feats and your Channel with Smite Alignment, essentially making you into a Spell Heavy Paladin. Actually a good Archetype, but not so great for an Oradin Build.
Cult Leader: Gives you Sneak Attack and bonuses to Stealth. Unfortunately, replaces your Channel Energy with the power to cast Enthrall.
Disenchanter: Focuses on protecting allies from spells. Gets the power to grant a mediocre save bonus at level 4, and to dispel magic at level 6. Unfortunately, both special abilities cost Fervor, and you already get better options just by being a spellcaster.
Divine Commander: Thematically the best Archetype for a Oradin-Style Warpriest. Replaces Blessings and Bonus Feats with a Supernatural Mount, the power to grant Teamwork Feats to allies, and the power to bless an entire army. Missing out on Blessings is hard, and you lose most of your bonus feats. But thematically, it's an amazing leadership role. Also a medium sized Divine Commander can use one of the feats from the ACG to get a Wolf Mount.
Forgepriest: A Warpriest focused on making things. Replaces Channel Energy with the power to boost his Sacred Weapon or Armor bonuses by +1 if he made the item himself. Potentially very useful, but not for Oradin builds.
Sacred Fist: Another Archetype that doesn't rely on Fervor. Basically turns you into a Holy Monk, and grants you Monk Bonuses to AC (Which is neat if you're going for a Vitalist Build ), Evasion and Improved for Fortitude Saves (Oooook), and A Ki Pool (and all the associated options).

Other Notes/B]
The Bad News: The Shaman Version of Life Link seems tailor made to keep Oradin builds from working. It now only functions if the bonded creature is at -5 HP or less. It's not known if this will be retroactively applied to the Oracle version.

The Good News!: There is a feat in the ACG that makes it possible to have a [B]Single Class Oradin.

There is a Feat Chain that requires at least WIS 13. The first one, Believer's Boon grants the first level domain ability of a single domain. That's cool. The second one is even better though.

Believer's Hands
Requires Wis 13, Believer's Boon, and a Lawful Good Alignment (Plus the worship of an appropriate deity).
This feat grants you the Lay on Hands ability once per day, as a Paladin equal to one half your level. More importantly, you have the Lay on Hands Class Ability for the purposes of qualifying for feats and benefiting from magic that improves it.

This can theoretically allow an Oracle to become an Oradin on her own, but it isn't quite efficient. Not a bad option though. Especially if you're willing to Pick up Extra Lay on Hands a few times.

Other neat feats include Extra Channel (One more use of Channel Energy a day, and it explicitly also works on Paladins and Warpriests), and Reactive Healing (Which lets a character with Lay On Hands, Quicken Channel, or Quicken Spell + Channel revive themselves from death as an immediate action).

[Talya]

I would say that your first "good news" is horrible news.

The good thing about the Paladin to combine with Oracle is the charisma synergy and the ability to dump Wisdom. And Charisma is a much better stat to pump high in general than wisdom, if you can focus on one or the other.

[grarrrg]

So, the final version of the Warpriest is out, so I'm going to redo my post suggestions.

Like Talya said, the "Not-CHA" is a big downside.
But it is probably better than Inquisitor as a WIS-based alternative.


[B]Spontaneous Casting of Cure Spells, which the Paladin and the Inquisitor cannot do.
Fervor, your version of Lay On Hands, also allows you to Swift Cast a spell on yourself.

Inquisitors are already Spontaneous casters.

Spending a Fervor _and_ a spell slot to Swift Cure is more resource intensive than Lay on Hands-ing. But as there is no 'good' Hands equivalent for WIS-based, this will have to do.

[CubeB]

Well, Fervor also functions as a Lay On Hands, which is the benefit of the whole thing. The Swift Casting function of Fervor is what replaces the Mercy function of Lay on Hands.

Unfortunately, Fervor doesn't count as Lay on Hands for effects that modify Lay on Hands, so items like bracers of the merciful knight don't work on it. But otherwise the healing progression is the same. You don't need to spontaneously cast cure spells at all, really. (But then, you never have to learn them, so it saves you the Spells Known problem that an Inquisitor might have.)

The real benefit of Warpriest is combining it with Vitalist, which is also Wisdom based. Vitalist 1/Warpriest X is very SAD, as Wisdom determines both your Collective Size, and how many times per day you can use Fervor to heal.

[grarrrg]

Having read the class (up on the SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/warpriest) now), I agree it is a solid Paladin replacement option.
Generally a bit more limited (no Immunities, no Stat-all-Saves, no Mercies, etc...), but with 6th level spells that shouldn't be too big of an issue.

Healing Blessing looks decent enough. Probably best used for downtime-healing though.

Works fine as a Single Class, as it can cast Shield Other and heal itself.
Could be paired with Oracle, but then you have some MADness potential.
VERY nice to pair with Vitalist, as 1 level in Vitalist is all you need. What should we call it though? Vitarpriest? Warprist? I like Warprist. Looks like a typo. Let's go with that one.

[hyperlance]

Great guide, I'm making one for PFS based on the standard build.

What sort of weapons have people gone with for their oradin? Starting with oracle, the only option I see is a spear, but isn't that a bit boring?

[Snowbluff]

Longspear is the best option at level 1.

[arkangel111]

Looking to make an oradin for my second pfs character. Is there a reason we choose Oracle first over paladin? Seems like the better hp pool and better weapons and armor would be better than Oracle.

Edited for auto correct madness.

[grarrrg]

Is there a reason we choose Oracle first over paladin?

You can start with whichever you prefer, there is no 'set/preferred' level progression.
The main issue is that the 'traditional' builds don't/can't get going until at least level 3 (Pal 2/Oracle 1 for Lay on Hands and 1 Life Link).

Oracle is good to start with if you prefer to be able to heal right away, as you then have Spells and can take Channeling as your first Revelation.
Paladin is fine if you don't "need" a healer right off the bat, or prefer a more 'melee smash' approach.

[hyperlance]

Cool Cool

I was thinking a ranseur, but long spear will do.

[Deadkitten]

So the Spirit Guide is probably one of the Best Archetypes for An Oradin.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Oracle%20Spirit%20 Guide

Use it to gain the Benefits of the Life Spirit and you can gain the main benefits of the Life Mystery while being able to choose a different mystery from your Oracle.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ShamanSpiritDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Life

From what I can tell, if you are going Oradin, it is the only way to effectively get TWO mysteries onto a single Oracle.
Needs a good chunk of Oracle though.

Edit: probably not, just read the shaman life link ability...:smalleek:

[grarrrg]

So the Spirit Guide is probably one of the Best Archetypes for An Oradin.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Oracle%20Spirit%20 Guide
...
Edit: probably not, just read the shaman life link ability...:smalleek:

Yeah...Shaman Life Link by RAW is horribly worthless.
I'm really not sure if they just tried to re-word Oracle Life Link to make it simpler/easier or whatever, or if they really intended to nerf it to death.

I'm still need to update the guide some for stuff from the ACG.
The following is copy/pasted from this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?373353-Oradin-Build-Help&p=18161819&viewfull=1#post18161819):

Anyway...I can maybe see the potential for Spirit Guide on a higher level Oradin.
Really, the only things worth using from Shaman-Life is getting Channel Energy bolted onto a different Mystery, and the extra spells known.
2 of the Hexes are "offensive" and block opponents healing.
1 of the Hexes raises the limit on Cure Spell Caster level bonus (which the Life Oracle already had access too, and it was underwhelming there as well).
Life Sight might be more fun, if it wasn't Rounds=Level/day.
The final reason why this is "eh" is because the Spirit Guide trades away their 3rd, 7th, and 15th Revelations.
That means without Dual-Cursed or Extra Revelation feat you get one Revelation at level 1, and then have to wait until level _11_ for your next one.
So even taking a different Mystery means you're stuck with _one_ Revelation for 10+ levels.

Perhaps the best use is the reverse of what you suggested...instead of going Non-Life Oracle using the Spirit Guide to gain Channeling, what about going Life Oracle, grabbing Channeling as your 1st Revelation then using the Spirit Guide to grab whatever abilities/spells you want for the day?

[DrDeth]

Bad Curses:

-Haunted, you mainly get more Spells Known, but without the Slots to cast them they are meaningless..

Can you explain this last part?

[PsyBomb]

DSP just put out a new source, Akashic Mysteries (their Incarnum port). It will be a staggered release, but the first section has a few gems for Oradins if you want me to post them here. Due to the nature of the system, the more you invest into it the bigger the potential playoffs. There is even a Str/Cha race coming later

[grarrrg]

Can you explain this last part?

An Oracle's Curse counts non-Oracle levels as 1/2 for bonuses.
A "typical" Oradin has a fair number of Paladin levels, probably more Paladin levels then Oracle levels.

Random-ish examples:
An Oracle 2/Paladin 6 would count as 5th level for Curse bonuses (2 + 6/2 = 5), and thus Haunted would (try to) grant you Levitate and Minor Image as Oracle Spells Known. But a 2nd level Oracle does not have any 2nd level spell slots.

Likewise an Oracle 6/Paladin 8 would count as 10th level for Curse bonuses (6 + 8/2 = 10), and thus Haunted would (try to) grant you Telekinesis as an Oracle Spell Known. But a 6th level Oracle does not have any 5th level spell slots.

It will at least add the spell to your Spell List, for things like UMD-ing wands and the like, so it isn't a total loss, but not really ideal either.

I will go edit for improved clarity.


DSP just put out a new source, Akashic Mysteries (their Incarnum port). It will be a staggered release, but the first section has a few gems for Oradins if you want me to post them here. Due to the nature of the system, the more you invest into it the bigger the potential playoffs. There is even a Str/Cha race coming later

Go for it.
Unlike most 3rd party DSP has a solid enough reputation for throwing stuff in the guide.
But I warn you, I'm not likely to read up on it too much and will likely just copy/paste anything you post straight into the guide :smalltongue:

On a related note: any good Path of War stuff that would help?

[Xerlith]

On a related note: any good Path of War stuff that would help?

There is the Battle Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/battle-templar) who:
- progresses Lay on Hands
- has resourceless healing (Martial Healing - when initiating a strike it grants a rider effect that allows spending a swift action to heal 1d4/maneuver level+class level. To himself or an ally in close range).
- may cast benevolent spells as a move action (as long as he uses a strike in the same round) on himself.
- The capstone is basically free action healing (10hp/spell level expended, all allies in a 60ft radius).

It also allows for an Oradin without Oracle or Paladin. Because a Warder1/Cleric4 works wonders (it needs those higher-level slots to power the abilities) with this class.
Then again, Paladin2/Oracle4 entering through Martial Training has an Initiator Level advantage.

There's the Martial Power feat that grants you +2 temp HP for a -1 to attack (+3 if using a shield) per 3 points of BAB. It's basically a free HP pool to power the Life Link feed.

A 6th level Silver Crane stance gives you fast healing 5.

I'd argue that a Silver Crane/Iron Tortoise Oracle4/Warder16 would make a better Oradin than the actual Oradin.
The healing strikes are ridiculously potent - a 6th level Strike that deals an additional 12d6 damage and heals the initiator for 60hp? Yes, please.

[Castilonium]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/protector-familiar-archetype

This familiar archetype from Familiar Folio effectively boosts the HP total of any level 7+ character by over 50%. Take Eldritch Heritage (arcane) at level 7 and have your familiar use Shield Master to take half of your damage any time you take hit point damage. This trick works best with channel energy rather than lay on hands, since you'll need to heal your familiar occasionally as well. But there are more tricks to help with keeping your familiar healthy.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spirit-s-gift using the Life spirit will give your familiar fast healing 1.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/aberrant-tumor will give you a tumor familiar if you are an alchemist, abberant bloodrager, abberant sorcerer, or take Eldritch Heritage (abberant). Tumor familiars have 5 fast healing as long as they're attached to your body.

[MasterBruce1984]

This was very helpful. Thank you to all for the comments and ideas.

I am playing an Oradin right now (currently 6th level, Slyph, 4 Oracle 2 Paladin) and she is pretty beefy. Another good item not mentioned yet is the Cassock of the Clergy. +3 on CHA based checks (limited to those who follow the same deity or those of the same faith), allows Bless and Sanctuary to be cast 1/day each without being in your spell list (good spells to have) and you can prepare an extra Orison each day on top of what you already can. Doesn't sound like much, but a decent item to look into.

Character Concept for my Oradin:

I am only taking 4 levels of Paladin. I chose to go Warrior of Holy Light for Paladin Archetype. The Paladin spells are worth bypassing for the bonus' you gain with this at 4th level. The Power of Faith class feature (at 4th level) give you the ability to buff each ally in a 30 ft radius with a +1 to AC, attack and damage, and saving throws against fear. Plus, you get the extra lay on hands. Use your LoH to heal yourself from the damage you take from Life Link. That in combination of any items you have to give yourself fast healing, or abilities like Energy Body, should give you what you need to keep yourself up as the damage sponge you should be. Feats like Reach Spell will help you give out your Cure spells at a distance if necessary.

I chose Slyph for the character concept, and because the Breeze-Kissed Alternate racial trait gives a +2 deflection bonus on ranged attacks, which was nice to have for AC. The hit to CON was rough though, so not the best choice. CHA > CON > STR/DEX> INT/WIS was the basis of my stat choice.

Thoughts? Comments? All are welcome.

[Jacob.Tyr]

There is the Battle Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/battle-templar) who:
- progresses Lay on Hands
- has resourceless healing (Martial Healing - when initiating a strike it grants a rider effect that allows spending a swift action to heal 1d4/maneuver level+class level. To himself or an ally in close range).
- may cast benevolent spells as a move action (as long as he uses a strike in the same round) on himself.
- The capstone is basically free action healing (10hp/spell level expended, all allies in a 60ft radius).

It also allows for an Oradin without Oracle or Paladin. Because a Warder1/Cleric4 works wonders (it needs those higher-level slots to power the abilities) with this class.
Then again, Paladin2/Oracle4 entering through Martial Training has an Initiator Level advantage.

There's the Martial Power feat that grants you +2 temp HP for a -1 to attack (+3 if using a shield) per 3 points of BAB. It's basically a free HP pool to power the Life Link feed.

A 6th level Silver Crane stance gives you fast healing 5.

I'd argue that a Silver Crane/Iron Tortoise Oracle4/Warder16 would make a better Oradin than the actual Oradin.
The healing strikes are ridiculously potent - a 6th level Strike that deals an additional 12d6 damage and heals the initiator for 60hp? Yes, please.

Depending on the amount of cheese one's DM allows...
Oracle 4/Paladin 2/Warlord 1/Battle Templar X could be very nice. A lot of dipping, so bear with me:
Oracle 4 for life link and channel
Paladin 2 for lay on hands etc, at level 5 take Martial Training in Silver Crane.
Battle Templar 1, you don't gain a maneuver but... this gets you to initiator level 4.

Warlord 1- Initiator Level 5. And you're gaining 6 maneuvers, you qualify for level 3 maneuvers at this point. And a way to regain maneuvers effectively.
Take Brave Gambit (Make a charge attack, +cha to hit luck bonus on top of normal bonuses to hit for charging).
You're also gaining a bonus feat. Martial Charge ftw (initiate a maneuver at the end of a charge).

Fill in Battle Templar, increasing your oracle casting, Lay on Hands, Oracle's Curse, and gaining maneuvers periodically. Yes Please.

Oracle 1-4, Paladin 5,6, Battle Templar 7, Warlord 8, Battle Templar 9-16, skip the capstone.
At this point I'd either fill in Paladin or Warlord, depending on preference.

[danzibr]

I'm looking into switching to pf, and this is exactly the sort of thing I'm interested in. I'm sure one of my players will want to do something like this. Thanks grrazzzzzg!

[twilsemail]

I haven't seen the pdf yet, but what I've heard about the Variant Multiclass Oracle makes me hopeful for another try at the Oradin. My first PF character was written with this guide in mind. (OK, my first competent PF character)

I'd love to take another swing at one. Perhaps in an upcoming Slumbering Tsar game.

[PatheticWretch]

Hey guys, I've really enjoyed this thread and the ideas on it. Thanks for putting it together and maintaining it.

I'm wondering if anyone has any additional thoughts on making an Inquisitor/Vitalist work.

While healing the collective seems like a slick way to distribute any healing the Inquisitor receives, I can't seem to optimize Fast Healing at all. Using Righteaous Healing to get+4 hp healed during judgments sounds like a start, though then we are back to using standard actions to heal instead of fast healing.

Any ideas on how this might be workable?

[Valdras]

grarrrg: I don't know if this has been asked before, but does DR affect the Life Link Damage?

[grarrrg]

grarrrg: I don't know if this has been asked before, but does DR affect the Life Link Damage?

It has.
The short version is that no, DR does nothing to Life Link, because DR only works on 'damage from attacks', and Life Link is just 'damage'.


And as an update, I have recently added in some VMC stuff from Unchained.
Single class Paladins + VMC Oracle is playable at higher levels (10+).
Single class Oracle + VMC Paladin is manageable, but less than ideal, as VMC Paladin is pretty weak as heck.
Now VMC-ing Cavalier on the other hand...

[Deadkitten]

Skald's Can Make a good option for one side of the alternate "Oradin"

Sklad's Vigor+ Amplified Rage + Greater Skald's Vigor can give a significant chunk of in combat fast healing.
Since they can get Bardic masterpieces, they can grab one that lets them cast shield other.
and you can do things such as lesser celestial totem and the path of glory spell for even more healing.

[grarrrg]

I've finally gotten around to a more sizable update...been lazy.


There is the Battle Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/battle-templar) who:
Solid. As it's 3rd party I mostly did a copy/paste (changed a "Psionic" section to a "DSP" section instead).


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/protector-familiar-archetype

This familiar archetype from Familiar Folio effectively boosts the HP total of any level 7+ character by over 50%.... have your familiar use Shield Master to take half of your damage any time you take hit point damage.
...Tumor familiars have 5 fast healing as long as they're attached to your body.

This is actually quite ridiculous to have going.
Life Link deals Damage.
Shield Master/Other redirects damage to the familiar
Familar has Fast Healing 5

The gravy part is that Shield Master is OPTIONAL. The Familiar is a freaking turbocharged HP battery of craziness!
Fill the bugger up with all the damage it can hold, then let it heal itself for 5 points per round!


Sklad's Vigor+ Amplified Rage + Greater Skald's Vigor can give a significant chunk of in combat fast healing.

I'm not sure that Amplified Rage works with Skalds, but even if it doesn't, granting the group Fast Healing 2/4/6 is pretty solid.

[Captain Morgan]

Very helpful guide. Thank you.

I do think Beacon of Hope might be a little bit undervalued. If you have a 5 or above for your CHA mod, you're basically getting a superior version of bless that will probably last all combat. Since Bless and The Warrior of Holy Light aura don't stack with it, and provide smaller bonuses, that frees up some spells for other stuff. You get to heal while buffing, which is great action economy. And if you're a hospitaler you probably have more channels than you know what to do with. Am I missing something here? Maybe the buff misses people with full health or something?

[grarrrg]

I do think Beacon of Hope might be a little bit undervalued....Am I missing something here?

Yes, you're probably reading the SRD version (which due to copyright-blah-blah can't list certain things, like the names of deities).
The feat requires you worship Milani, who is a Chaotic Good god, and thus (generally) not an option for Paladins to worship.

[Captain Morgan]

Yes, you're probably reading the SRD version (which due to copyright-blah-blah can't list certain things, like the names of deities).
The feat requires you worship Milani, who is a Chaotic Good god, and thus (generally) not an option for Paladins to worship.

Ooooh. Well that blows. Luckily for me my DM is ignoring the alignment restriction. Assuming that you can actually use the feat, would you agree with my assessment? Is it worth replacing, say, Greater Mercy for a 4 Oracle/4 Paladin build?

Current feats are Fey Foundling, Power Attack, Selective Channeling, and Greater Mercy. Took Ancestral Arms to get an elven curve blade but am now considering defaulting back to skill focus so I can possibly take Eldritch Heritage later for that Tumor Familiar. It's also an enormous partycfukl of martials so I'm tempted to go Oracle past 8 to increase the life link and gain more buff spells.

[grarrrg]

Ooooh. Well that blows. Luckily for me my DM is ignoring the alignment restriction. Assuming that you can actually use the feat, would you agree with my assessment? Is it worth replacing, say, Greater Mercy for a 4 Oracle/4 Paladin build?

Current feats are Fey Foundling, Power Attack, Selective Channeling, and Greater Mercy.

Beacon of Hope is also a little contradictory. You have to Channel>Heal to grant the effect, but the effect is one you want at the start of a battle, when you are more likely to be at full HP, so the healing would be wasted.

It depends on the fight just how useful it would be, being the "mini-Bard" could be handy to the part of Martials...might be worth a go, would recommend getting Quick Channeling at some point though, so you can grant it as a Move action instead of Standard.


I'd say there are worse feats, but there are better ones too.

[Captain Morgan]

Beacon of Hope is also a little contradictory. You have to Channel>Heal to grant the effect, but the effect is one you want at the start of a battle, when you are more likely to be at full HP, so the healing would be wasted.

It depends on the fight just how useful it would be, being the "mini-Bard" could be handy to the part of Martials...might be worth a go, would recommend getting Quick Channeling at some point though, so you can grant it as a Move action instead of Standard.


I'd say there are worse feats, but there are better ones too.

Would the boost still work if a character was at full health and got hit by it? Seems like it's worth using then, especially since you can use your weaker channel pool for it...

Also, does the Chosen One archetype stack with Hospitaler? I'm thinking it doesn't, since it alters the channel energy ability even though it doesn't replace anything.

[animewatcha]

Unfortunately, it alters the channel energy alone is enough. It also messes with smite evil and lay on hands.

[Captain Morgan]

I definitely want to do the mini bard thing, but I'm a little torn between the Hospitaler/Beacon of Hope route or the Holy Tactician. Party has like 6 martials (not counting myself), a caster or two, plus some undead minions by the sound of it. Not sure how many are ranged.

Hospitaler:
+ An extra 8 channels a day, which while lower on heal dice can be used for BoH
+ Beacon of Hope provides a higher morale bonus on attack roles than Bless or the Holy Light aura, which frees up a lot of casting options. Also applies to all saves.
+Fully powered personal smite
+ Channeling may be a more efficient for healing thanks to party size.
+ Can be used with Quick Channel to further improve action economy.
+ Maintains base class auras. With saves this high that's less relevant to the Oradin, but allies may appreciate.
+ Can basically buff once and then hop into the fray.

- Unclear as to how best to level up. Lots of good reasons to stay Pally, but the Oracle will EVENTUALLY get better buff spells.
-Beacon of Hope doesn't apply to damage rolls or AC.
-Quick Channel and BoH eat up feats, and this thing has a lot of competition for those.

Holy Tactician:
+ Less feat intensive.
+ Outflank is a +2 bonus that can stack with EVERYTHING.
+ Can generate extra attacks of opportunity.
+ Eventually can nab the whole party coordinated charge, which does all sorts of stuff.
+ Creates more incentive to focus on taking Paladin levels
+ Grants free movement around the board
+ Can take Warrior of Holy Light to stack with other bonuses.

- Worse action economy. Needs a standard for the teamwork, standard for Holy Light aura, standard for any spells cast... So while it can lead to higher bonuses it takes longer to do so and keeps the Oradin from just smashing heads.
-Bonuses are more situational. If flanking isn't practical, or party gets too spread out, the BoH buff is superior.
-Loses immunities. Don't care that much with saves this good.
- Weal's Champion sorta sucks in comparison to Smite. The bonuses are lower, but the real problem is the duration is so short, especially when multiclassing. I'd only get 2 rounds per use at Pally 4.
-Loses Divine Bond, which I was looking forward to using since I don't think WBL is in play and I would love to add Keen to my curve blade.

[grarrrg]

My vote is for the Holy Tactician in this case.


Holy Tactician:
- Worse action economy. Needs a standard for the teamwork, standard for Holy Light aura, standard for any spells cast

Do note that the 'share Teamwork feat' ability does _not_ have a listed duration. As long as they can see/hear you they get the feat. So the "standard action" is usually a non-issue as you can share Teamwork at the start of the day and forget about it.

And it's only a Swift action to change the feat. Get a variety of Teamwork feats with your bonuses and swap them out on the fly, and encourage your teammates to _actually_ take some of the feats, so that they are 'always on' for you.

Lookout (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/lookout-combat-teamwork) is good to keep up when not in combat. It will probably be replaced by Coordinated Charge at some point though.
Fighting Casters? Shake it Off (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shake-it-off-teamwork)
General melee? Outflank (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/outflank-combat-teamwork)
Need more damage? Precise Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/precise-strike-combat-teamwork)
Gotta sneak in somewhere? Stealth Synergy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/stealth-synergy-teamwork)

[Captain Morgan]

Took your suggestion and the first session went very well.

Unfortunately, I just realized how bonkers a Holy Tactician/Warrior of Light is with a War Drummer Skald. Amplified Rage, plus being able to craft Furious/Courageous weapons for everyone is so freaking crazy. Path of Glory, Lesser Celestial Totem, and Greater Skald Vigor also make it an amazing healer.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Grarrg --

Thank you so much for creating this guide. I've been playing a Spirit Guide Oradin in PFS and having a wonderful time. I've posted to make you aware of the new ACG errata.

Shaman life spirit life links have been upgraded to be the full equivalent of life oracle life links, making a wisdom-based Oradin (Inquisi-man? Shamitor?) possible.

Hmm

[grarrrg]

Grarrg --

Who? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningGag) :smallconfused:


Shaman life spirit life links have been upgraded to be the full equivalent of life oracle life links, making a wisdom-based Oradin (Inquisi-man? Shamitor?) possible.

Good.
It's about time that book got a swift kick in the punctuals.
Yes, the Shaman just got a goodly upgrade, as did the Spirit Guide Oracle. Can now choose Not-Life Mystery, and still Life Link all you want.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

The errata giveth and the errata taketh away.

The ARG errata has made bumping a revelation for half-elves, elves and aasimars much less feasible in an oradin build.

We now get 1/6 to level rather than 1/2.

It's not the end of the world, but the change makes my Oradin, Lyric, a little disheartened.

Hmm

[DarkOne-Rob]

I have followed and enjoyed the updates to this thread for quite some time, and am excited to (finally) add something of value!

There is a nice trait I want to suggest for the guide - Sun-Blessed (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sun-Blessed). It is a magic trait (doesn't conflict with Blessed Touch or other Faith traits) and adds temporary HPs for over-healing (up to your Character Level for 1 minute). While not perfect, I think it deserves some mention and has some great value to an Oradin. What do you guys think?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yes, the Shaman just got a goodly upgrade, as did the Spirit Guide Oracle. Can now choose Not-Life Mystery, and still Life Link all you want.
Could you elaborate on this a bit more, please? I was under the impression that Life Link was only available if you picked the Life Mystery. How do you get it with other Mysteries? I'm intrigued by the possibility of a Paladin/Nature Oracle/Holy Vindicator. Unless by Not-Life Mystery you mean different classes entirely like Shaman, in which case I'm back to square one. :smallconfused:

[Second Arrow]

Could you elaborate on this a bit more, please? I was under the impression that Life Link was only available if you picked the Life Mystery. How do you get it with other Mysteries? I'm intrigued by the possibility of a Paladin/Nature Oracle/Holy Vindicator. Unless by Not-Life Mystery you mean different classes entirely like Shaman, in which case I'm back to square one. :smallconfused:

It is also selectable if you choose the Life Spirit, which gives access to the Life Link hex (functions identically to the Life Link revelation as of now).

Thus, the Spirit Guide Oracle can get access to Life Link by level 3 with their Wandering Hex, and the Shaman can select it as one of their Wandering Hexes.

[grarrrg]

Could you elaborate on this a bit more, please? I was under the impression that Life Link was only available if you picked the Life Mystery. How do you get it with other Mysteries? I'm intrigued by the possibility of a Paladin/Nature Oracle/Holy Vindicator. Unless by Not-Life Mystery you mean different classes entirely like Shaman, in which case I'm back to square one. :smallconfused:

What Second Arrow said.
The Oracle archetype Spirit Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide) lets you cherry pick from Shaman Spirits, of which Life Spirit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/life), complete with Life Link, is an option.
So a Spirit Guide Oracle can choose Life Mystery and [whatever] Spirit to expand their options.
Or a Spirit Guide Oracle can choose [not Life] Mystery and Life Spirit to access to Channeling and Life Link.

Main downside is Spirit Guide trades away your 3rd, 7th, and 15th revelations, so you'll probably be wanting the Extra Revelation feat.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That sounds REALLY tempting!

Also, something to be aware of with the Evangelist prestige class: The deity you pick determines which of your base classes Evangelist keys off of, and only two include either paladin or oracle among their list off acceptable Evangelist starting classes. Iomedae can have paladin Evangelists, while Pharasma can have oracle Evangelists. And given Pharasma's True Neutral, she doesn't grant power to Paladins who have to be Lawful Good. It opens up a bit more if you're using Inquisitor, allowing you to pick from Abadar, Irori, or Sarenrae, but otherwise Evangelist is rather limiting for this kind of character in terms of deity choice.

[Second Arrow]

That sounds REALLY tempting!

Also, something to be aware of with the Evangelist prestige class: The deity you pick determines which of your base classes Evangelist keys off of, and only two include either paladin or oracle among their list off acceptable Evangelist starting classes. Iomedae can have paladin Evangelists, while Pharasma can have oracle Evangelists. And given Pharasma's True Neutral, she doesn't grant power to Paladins who have to be Lawful Good. It opens up a bit more if you're using Inquisitor, allowing you to pick from Abadar, Irori, or Sarenrae, but otherwise Evangelist is rather limiting for this kind of character in terms of deity choice.

While the Evangelist PrC certainly provides a list of classes (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Evangelist), I don't believe it was ever stated as a requirement to follow it.

Below are examples of the class types most likely to become evangelists in each of the major faiths of the Inner Sea region.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Question regarding the Spirit Guide archetype for Oracles and the Holy Vindicator prestige class.

Holy Vindicator requires Channel Energy as a class feature, and while the Spirit Guide Oracle CAN get that via the Wandering Spirit class feature they get, the catch is that they'd need to regain that class feature each day. It's not permanent. Would such a character actually qualify for Holy Vindicator, considering they have channel energy through a technicality?

[grarrrg]

Question regarding the Spirit Guide archetype for Oracles and the Holy Vindicator prestige class.

Holy Vindicator requires Channel Energy as a class feature, and while the Spirit Guide Oracle CAN get that via the Wandering Spirit class feature they get, the catch is that they'd need to regain that class feature each day. It's not permanent. Would such a character actually qualify for Holy Vindicator, considering they have channel energy through a technicality?

Ultimately that's a DM call, but I'd lean towards "no", as it is not a fixed/permanent feature.

Another option would be to allow it, but deny you (most) of the Holy Vindicator features if you choose a different Spirit that day.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Would it work the OTHER way around, however, being a Spirit Guide with the Life Mystery and using Wandering Spirit to get neat goodies on the side?

[grarrrg]

Would it work the OTHER way around, however, being a Spirit Guide with the Life Mystery and using Wandering Spirit to get neat goodies on the side?

Don't see why not. As long as you actually took the Channel Revelation at some point you should be fine.

[Mirax]

I somewhat got permission from Grarrrg to jump this onto the back end of his post. I am looking to optimize a Oradin/Skald build. So far I have the first 7 levels pretty well set. I am just not feeling that its very "smooth" or efficient, I feel I am missing something.

Starting with half-orc with fates favored / shamans apprentace / skilled / city raised alternate traits.
Level 1: Skald - Skalding Vigor Feat / Extra Performance Feat (Switched out scribe scroll via PFS rules.) / Bardic Knowledge
Level 2: Bloodrager - Fast Movement / Bloodline Power / Boosts our raging song to bloodrager level.
Level 3: Paladin(Holy Tactician) - Extra Performance Feat
Level 4: Paladin(Holy Tactician) - Lay on Hands (4/day 1D6) / Divine Grace
Level 5: Paladin(Holy Tactician) - Mercy / Amplified Rage Teamwork / Share Teamwork / Aura Of Courage / Power Attack Feat
Level 6: Life Oracle - Life Link
Level 7: Skald - Raging Vitality Feat / Versatile Performance

At level 7 we have 5 level 1 spells from 2 spell lists, a bunch of orisons and cantrips, 4d6 + mercy lay on hands per day, and 5 Bab.
With a 16 starting cha, this character should easily be able to be the face / knowledge monkey for the party. +5 all saves for himself. We also have 20 rounds of song per day.

Once we hit Greater Skalding Vigor, we should be providing everyone in the party 2 Rage Powers, 6Str/6Con, 4 Fast Healing, and Life Linking the main tank while having at least 10str/con on our own rage. Effective 9 Fast Healing on the Tank

If we continue with Skald until 20. We can end up giving the party DR4/- , Bear Totem, Improved / Guarded Life Rage Powers. All of this is quite delayed however with the last point of the DR not coming until level 20. Bear totem only increasing to +6 con at level 20 as well. DR 4/- on everyone , 9 Fast Healing on Tank, and Party +150 EHP to everyone that accepts rage seems pretty good.

My problem with this build is that it almost feels as if it is logistically done at level 7. As long as we pick up greater skalding vigor at level 11 feat, the rage powers to allies almost feels mediocre. I cannot get a feel on how to round out this build after level 7.

Does anyone have any suggestions / optimizations or want to offer any assistance in this optimization. Thanks in advance!

[Captain Morgan]

Life Link only lets you link to a number of creatures up to your Oracle level, so I can't help but feel taking only 1 level in Oracle defeats the purpose of having it. The best rage power to combine with Life Link is Lesser Celestial Totem. -3-4 levels of Oracle and that power and you are basically giving the entire party fast healing 9, and at a level far earlier than Greater Skald's Vigor. The biggest problem for you will be keeping your own health up and still getting to smash face with your standard action, but you can then use Paladin levels to ease that burden.

I'd probably prioritize 3 levels of Skald and 3-4 levels of Oracle (depending on party size), then go Holy Tactician 3. From there, you can decide what to prioritize. Spells (Oracle), party support (Skald), or your own healing and melee (Paladin/Bloodrager).

If you do the above, and won't be relying on Greater Skald Vigor, you can use Community Minded or Lingering performance over Extra Performance. (Really, you should be using Community Minded anyway, that trait is dope on a Skald.)

[Florian]

While the numbers sound impressive at first, I don´t think this ´ll really work out the way as intended.

Conceptually, this is a ver low-AC frontliner and any reasonably played intelligent enemy will immediately switch targets to him once he sings. Then the 3 levels of Paladin will not be sufficient to keep up the healing let alone maintaining the lifelink. That´ll mean equipping a Glaive, Combat Reflexes and getting Enlarge Person early on, position behind the designated tank and working with trip attempts to cover that weakness.

The whole delay in the Skald class features makes them very sub-par besides the Raging Song, so I´d not focus on them too much. I´d delay Bloodrager for later levels, focus on Oracle3/Paladin4/Skald 3+ as a mid-level build, possibly even switching to Human to get Fey Heritage to augment healing, along with Celestial Totem for later. Getting Celestial Healing as Oracle spells known will give access to Fast Healing very early and will help augment LoH.

[Captain Morgan]

Yeah, Florian brings up good points and reinforces my own. Also, Spirit Guide is worth considering. That way you can pick up Life Link and get a better set of revelations. Lunar or Lore would get you CHA to AC, and the former has various other combat boons while the latter can get you skill bonuses.

[Mirax]

Thank you very much for your responses, I really appreciate the input and I will definitely add in community minded and lesser celestial totem per your advice.

My question now stems to the efficacy of oracle at all. Any fast healing, such as Celestial Healing, does not benefit from fey foundling or lesser totem.

It would seem if, to make oracle work, you would need a very high level of oracle, so your life link is suddenly giving +14ish healing on top of the 5. (Skald 3, Paladin 3, Oracle 14). With at least 2 extra performance feats. Without the progression of the rage, you could easily drop greater skalds vigor for one of them and the scribe scroll for the other.

My knowledge of oracles and fights beyond level 10/12 is extremely limited so let me ask this.
What does an oracle bring. I honestly do not know.

Both can cast path of glory, giving everyone standing on the square 14/16 healing per turn for 13/16 turns. This would stack for insane healing on the oracles part. A skald will be healing everyone standing on a path for 23 hp per turn and the tank for 29 at the cost of 5hp per turn. Oracle will be healing everyone life linked for 18 per turn, with 32 if they are standing on the path as well at the cost of ptcount * 5 hp per turn. A skald without path is healing everyone for 6 per turn, the tank for 12 per turn at the cost of 5hp per turn.

Both have access to 6th Level Spells.
Skald has spell kenning x 2 per day. Loracle has a worse version x 1 per day.
A loreacle wont provide 6 Fast Healing to everyone while songing.
A loreacle will have an additonal feat or two which can be converted to extra performance since less.
A loreacle will have slightly more ac (46ish), slightly less combat prowess (-4 str).
A loreacle won't provide +4 str/con to allies that a leveled skald will over a 3rd level skald.
A loreacle won't provide +4 will / +2 fort save to everyone that a leveled skald does over a 3rd level skald.
A loreacle won't provide 70 effective hp to everyone that a leveled skald does over a 3rd level skald.
A loreacle won't provide Dr4/- to everyone.
A loreacle won't have the raise dead to keep fighting song.

So school me, what does a loreacle provide that makes up for these. Increased spell casting and healing? I honestly do not know.
The builds in question imo are (Skald 3, Paladin 4, Oracle 13) vs (Skald 16, Oracle 1, Paladin 3).
This post may sound bias but it is not persay. I really do like the oracle build more. It seems easier and more fun. Thus I need to know what advantages it gives to be able to justify it over all the benefits of a higher level skald.

[Captain Morgan]

I'm not sure the Oracle IS better for you. What is your intention here? What do you see your role as in combat?

What level will your game start at? How high a level will it go? The biggest advantage to taking more than one Oracle level is it comes online much faster than Greater Skald Vigor. But that's not an advantage if you are starting at level 12.

I do think 1 level of Oracle isn't worth it. Life Link is dope because you can heal the entire party, not just the tank.

[Florian]

@Mirax:

Oradin revolves around being able to heal and not having to waste any actions or extra resources for it. It can even be done with Paladin VMC Oracle, so not even the slightest delay in Paladin level progression.
You can invest some feats or items to make it more effective, but that´s not strictly necessary, as it mostly is a secondary build and leaves all options open to work out the primary side of the build, like Archer Oradin or Lancer Oradin. So it´s playing a healer without the pain of having to play a healer.

Contrast that to your suggested build(s): Your investing a rather huge chunk of your feats into it and end up with a character that cannot really contribute to combat on its own. The effectiveness will then hinge on how many characters can profit from Raging Song. If it´s only the tank, then it´s a zero-sum game.

[Mirax]

Well put both of you. I think the best points that both of you made is that the build I suggest does come on much later, and the fact as stated "leaves all options open to work out the primary side of the build, like Archer Oradin or Lancer Oradin." These do make the most sense.

I still think that my build contributes more to the team buffing side, however as pointed out, I would spend most of my actions buffing and being a medicore DD and medicore tank even with +20/20 strength con on myself. I do think a (3skald3pal14oracle) is rather weak compaired to a (16skald3pal1oracle) however we can go back to the builds on the first pages of this thread where its a pure oradin build which does seem quite effective, leaving the skald out.

How would a (14Pal/3Oracle/3Skald) work out? It will be +1 attack / -1 damage vs the 16 skald build above. Overall their combat effectiveness would be roughly the same to a skald with higher ac. So you basically just trade out all of the skalds buffs for more smites / mercys / lay on hands / channels. It would also take a standard to set up the song which is very action inefficient. Does this end up working better or does it fall into the same trap leaving me deciding that skald can't really be effectively splashed as stated in the OP.

Overall it comes down to what the party needs essentially? If you need an effective individual player or someone that will make everyone else effective.

[Captain Morgan]

I mean, there's a lot of stuff any of these builds can do. A paladin 14 would give you Life Link and Channel for mad healing, and your smites will do mad damage. You'll have skill and spell options though.

A Lore Oracle can get CHA to knowledge checks, and use Focused Trance to gain +20 on itelligence checks (never fail crafting!), and more. A Lunar Oracle will get you an animal companion (who will enjoy the buffs you pass out as well), let you grow natural weapons, and so on. Both mysteries give you CHA to AC and reflex saves, and let you use buffs like Prayer, Blessing of Fervor, Righteous Might, and Divine Power to boost yourself and allies.

Skald, you seem to know the options better than I do.

You need to evaluate what levels of play this campaign will extend to, and what role you fill in the party. Consider: what if the tank dies or retires and brings in DEX build?

[Xerlith]

A heads-up: The Vitalist paladin semi-recently got something of a buff, with the Tortured Crusader (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/tortured-crusader-paladin-archetype)archetype (Wis-shifting all Charisma-dependent abilities). Tiefling Paladin19/Vitalist 1 is a more than solid choice. Loses aura buffs, gains better Will save and more bursty (due to how Collective Healing works) healing.

[Burnscar]

FYI, Inheritor's Light is not an artifact - it's just a special magic weapon, costing 6555gp. Which, considering it adds +1 healing per die on your LoH (up to your max healing only, but that will basically never matter), makes it fantastic at the price.

Tiefling Paladin 6 with Inheritor's Light and Greater Mercy is looking at 4d6+18 self healing, which is 32 on average.

[Castilonium]

The Healer's Handbook player companion has some lovely new things for Oradins.

The Pei Zin Practitioner oracle archetype that trades out its 1st level revelation for Lay on Hands, so you can now be a single-class oradin! You can only use it 1 + cha mod times per day, though, and don't get more uses per day as you level up.

The Envoy of Healing trait (Religion, Sarenrae) lets you reroll die rolls that come up as nat 1s on channel energy, fervor, and lay on hands. That's an average increase of 0.5 HP per die.

There's a new 6th level mercy called Targeted. Your Lay on Hands also casts the sanctuary spell on your target with a DC that scales with your level.

9th level mercy, Injured, gives 3 fast healing for 1/2 level rounds.

Paladins can trade out their Divine Bond for an Agathion Bond that increases their healing by their cha mod, and more as they level up.

[Reagansmash]

The Healer's Handbook player companion has some lovely new things for Oradins.

The Pei Zin Practitioner oracle archetype that trades out its 1st level revelation for Lay on Hands, so you can now be a single-class oradin! You can only use it 1 + cha mod times per day, though, and don't get more uses per day as you level up.

The Envoy of Healing trait (Religion, Sarenrae) lets you reroll die rolls that come up as nat 1s on channel energy, fervor, and lay on hands. That's an average increase of 0.5 HP per die.

There's a new 6th level mercy called Targeted. Your Lay on Hands also casts the sanctuary spell on your target with a DC that scales with your level.

9th level mercy, Injured, gives 3 fast healing for 1/2 level rounds.

Paladins can trade out their Divine Bond for an Agathion Bond that increases their healing by their cha mod, and more as they level up.

How do you know this? I thought Healer's handbook wasn't being released until wednesday?
Is there a review copy / early look? If there is an early look where could I find it?

[Castilonium]

How do you know this? I thought Healer's handbook wasn't being released until wednesday?
Is there a review copy / early look? If there is an early look where could I find it?

You need to have a paid subscription with Paizo to get preorder copies early. Here's a link. (http://paizo.com/products/btpy81x1/discuss&page=2?Pathfinder-Player-Companion-Subscription) Notice how it says the Healer's Handbook is "Available now". Non-subscribers can get it on Wednesday.

[Frosty]

Is extra lay on hands worth it for a Pei Zin oracle? Also, is there a way to qualify for getting Mercy feats since you technically don't don't have the Mercy ability as a Pei Zin oracle?

[Florian]

Is extra lay on hands worth it for a Pei Zin oracle? Also, is there a way to qualify for getting Mercy feats since you technically don't don't have the Mercy ability as a Pei Zin oracle?

Not really and no.

[Torbaal]

Hi there ! First of all, thank you for sharing this great guide. I've been willing to try it out since I first saw it a while ago now, and my chance has fanally arrived ! That being said, I haven't played a lot to Pathfinder and would appreciate an expert's opinion regarding my building plans.

The campain will be Kingmaker, but we should start it at level 4, right after we are made lords. Only core races are allowed. But our GM allows us to play non Lawful Good Paladins. I didn't list any equipment below because I don't know what the GM will allow us to get when it comes to magical equipment. He'll monitor that for sure.

Here is the building I'm planning on :

Half Elf, Ancestral Weapon (falcata)

Str 16 (up to 20 with leveling)
Dex 10
Con 14 (13+1 leveling)
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 18 (16+2 racial bonus)

Paladin Hospitalier, Knight of the Coins - Abadar (LN)
Oracle, Life Mystery, Legalist
Traits : blessed touched, magical knack (oracle), noble born "endurance overcomes all" ?

1 Pal 1 - Fey Foundling
2 Pal 2
3 Pal 2 Ora 1 - Power attack, Life Link (revelation)
4 Pal 2 Ora 2
5 Pal 3 Ora 2 - Greater Mercy
6 Pal 4 Ora 2
7 Pal 4 Ora 3 - Selective Channel, Channel Energy (revelation)
8 Pal 4 Ora 4
9 Pal 5 Ora 4 - Aligned Channel (Evil)
10 Pal 6 Ora 4
11 Holy Vindicator 1 - Quick channeling
12
13 Channeling Surge
14
15 Cornugon Smash
16
17 Critical Focus
18
19 Bleeding critical
20 Pal 6 Ora 4 HV 10

Beside of being an oradin, the idea is to use channeling ofensively and to decrease ennemies saves by having them shaken (Cornugon Smash) and sickened (Bloodfire & Bloodrain) so I can use the Vindicator's special ability on crit, topping it in the end with better crit confirmation and bleeding critical. I know I probably won't reach level 20 but it gives perspective.

Do you see any flaws, or improvment I could make ? Thanks in advance for taking the time to read me :)

Edit : Constitution is a bit low but the GM will allow us to retrain our HD during the campain, which I hope will be enough